|
Post by mental abuse on Apr 1, 2008 11:38:02 GMT -5
No contest plea means that you are not admitting guilt but will also not fight the allegations. I repeat, who pleads "No Contest" when they are Innocent. Nobody. Is innocent in the eyes of the court the same as innocence in your eyes? If I plead no contest, does that mean I am guilty? Are you serious? hmmmm, Ok, what am I guilty of? what does abuse mean? I am sure I have made some mistakes, haven't we all///
|
|
|
Post by An Inquiring Mind on Apr 1, 2008 12:04:23 GMT -5
Wasn't there a prior post on this thread that mentioned that three brother workers were removed in MI in this incident? Was it removed by the board administrator?
Maybe, I read that on another thread. I'm willing to corrected.
An Inquiring Mind
|
|
|
Post by juliette on Apr 1, 2008 12:19:40 GMT -5
Wasn't there a prior post on this thread that mentioned that three brother workers were removed in MI in this incident? Was it removed by the board administrator? Maybe, I read that on another thread. I'm willing to corrected. An Inquiring Mind The first post on this thread references 3 workers being sent home. It will be interesting to learn what the connection is to this case, and if others are involved.
|
|
|
Post by the reality on Apr 1, 2008 12:34:26 GMT -5
There are currently 3 workers that have been removed from the work in Michigan related to this case, and other names have been given as well. And of course, if irrational were in charge, they would still have access to children via their positions of trust in the work.
|
|
|
Post by heal logged out on Apr 1, 2008 13:24:30 GMT -5
Is all this news fairly new?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 1, 2008 13:35:51 GMT -5
Wasn't there a prior post on this thread that mentioned that three brother workers were removed in MI in this incident? Was it removed by the board administrator? I guarantee you I will not be removing any posts in relation to this, unless ProBoards TOS are violated (rules against libel). Trooper Bethany Craig mentions the name Ira Hobbs. If that connection is confirmed, I feel inclined to be making a very strrong statement, as I suspect others will do also.
|
|
|
Post by juliette on Apr 1, 2008 13:36:14 GMT -5
Is all this news fairly new? That depends on how fast the investigation and criminal cases move. One of the authorities involved said that this was one of the most complex abuse cases he had ever seen. I imagine that there is a lot of investigation taking place right now, and that they have many different parts of the case to investigate. This would all be further complicated by the fact that some of the parties involved have now moved on to different states, and some may have just been passing through.
|
|
will
Senior Member
Posts: 516
|
Post by will on Apr 1, 2008 13:37:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by wings on Apr 1, 2008 13:47:24 GMT -5
It says 3 workers were removed on theWings site I think.
|
|
|
Post by Not Skeptical on Apr 1, 2008 14:00:41 GMT -5
No contest plea means that you are not admitting guilt but will also not fight the allegations. I repeat, who pleads "No Contest" when they are Innocent. Nobody. Is innocent in the eyes of the court the same as innocence in your eyes? If I plead no contest, does that mean I am guilty? Are you serious? hmmmm, Ok, what am I guilty of? what does abuse mean? I am sure I have made some mistakes, haven't we all/// Lets Get Real and grow up as to why someone pleas NO CONTEST www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mnocontest.html
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 14:20:54 GMT -5
Is innocent in the eyes of the court the same as innocence in your eyes? abuse mean? I am sure I have made some mistakes, / Lets Get Real and grow up as to why someone pleas NO CONTEST ] Get real? why? .... OH NO! then we couldn't gossip, you are a killjoy! ;D
|
|
|
Post by I on Apr 1, 2008 17:32:34 GMT -5
If there was nothing done wrong (beyond normal discipline or actual physical or sexual abuse) then why did the parents plead "NO CONTEST" to the custody hearing of the remaining children. No contest plea means that you are not admitting guilt but will also not fight the allegations. This is a way many people keep all the dirt from coming out in a full court hearing. If it were my children adopted or not; and I did nothing wrong, I would not plead no contest but would fight. Most who plead no contest do it to avoid the guilty plea. As such, the accused are accepting the Courts disposition without going into a case of the people. Hence, the accused are trying to avoid criminal charges because there will not be a full case to review all the allegations. In this particular case however, more allegations are pending which will not allow the parents to avoid them or skip the review of a full court by NO Contest. The other side of the coin is that they may not fight because they know all charges will be dropped--However, this line of thinking would not support a "No Contest" plea for the custody of the remaining children. It appears to me that there was some serious breaches for the welfare of the children due to the No Contest plea I repeat, who pleads "No Contest" when they are Innocent. Nobody. i'll tell you who. the guy that his public pretender says he is facing a max of 5 years if he is found guilty after fighting it, but if he takes the plea he will be out probably tomorrow with 3 years probation, give up your fourth and second amendments and attend counseling/aa/anger management classes.... but you will be out by tomorrow if you take the deal. otherwise you are looking at 5 years if you lose. that guy. thats who. the scared guy, who was probably innocent in the first place... I have come to see you as a total nut case. Innocent yea right. You have been milking to many goats
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Apr 1, 2008 17:54:28 GMT -5
"Arise O LORD, and judge Thy cause."
In all of this terrible mess of crooked workers, twisted social services, conflicting information, and instances of horrific abuse, may we all put our trust in the Righteous Judge, who can make sense of it, and bring justice on those who have done wrong.
Thank you O God for purging your Church of these evil workers. Their filth is even now being washed away.
|
|
|
Post by kencoolidge on Apr 1, 2008 19:56:49 GMT -5
Thanks GIT and Nate for your comments and non defence Love you Both Ken
|
|
|
Post by nitro on Apr 1, 2008 20:34:55 GMT -5
bump
|
|
|
Post by kencoolidge on Apr 1, 2008 21:59:38 GMT -5
You would be welcome to stay at our home we are about 1 1/2 mi from beach. Sorry no beach front home.
|
|
|
Post by ithascome on Apr 1, 2008 22:14:28 GMT -5
Seems to me ran that you are drawing attention to these threads by bringing them to the top. Would it not be better to post on the threads that you like?
|
|
|
Post by TrollyOllie on Apr 1, 2008 23:00:29 GMT -5
Thanks GIT and Nate for your comments and non defence Love you Both Ken I hope you, your wife and myself will have supper together again in the future. GIT, want to come and join us in Florida? then we can all go to World Disneyland.
It would be fun if ALL TMB posters can meet at World Disney Land in Florida. We can all camp out at Ken's beach house. ;DDo you include all us noname people who you believe are evil xers?
|
|
|
Post by TrollyOllie on Apr 1, 2008 23:09:14 GMT -5
Do you include all us noname people who you believe are evil xers? Yep, I said ALL didn't I? that's including you.Well Thank You. I am not an evil x--just an x
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Apr 1, 2008 23:55:20 GMT -5
Well now... This will be interesting to see how the TMB is when the abc news reporter checks in here tomorrow. This is one of the web sites that the TV station has been given as a place where those who are in meetings and those who have left meetings gather to discuss issues within the truth fellowship. It has been portrayed as one of the better sites as far as open and honest communication. I suppose that I should be sure to mention to the station where some of the posters loyalties lie in regards to the posts that have been placed here tonight. Scott
|
|
|
Post by Now look on Apr 2, 2008 0:04:22 GMT -5
and see what you did you i di o t ranman. When they see what you have done to this board.................it'll just cinch it for 'em. You of all people should know how the media are. Maybe you can stay up the rest of the night deleting your she-it and clean this mess up you've made. *&^($#@!
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Apr 2, 2008 0:07:11 GMT -5
whats that website address where your sister's at?
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Apr 2, 2008 0:19:51 GMT -5
Ran,
Can you tell which rules I have violated here?
Rules: 1 Stick to the topic. 2 No personal attacks. 3 Obscene material will be deleted. 4 Nothing libelous. Topics that don't relate to the "Truth" fellowship or posts that are off-topic may be removed.
I am pretty sure that even if I do post about the abuse issues that are ongoing in the church, I stick to the topic, and I create or respond to a thread. I don't create multiple threads about the same subject.
I also like to get involved in discussions about the bible and point out how the bible speaks to me.
Now obviously our administrator has other business tonight, but i hope you notice that I went along with nitro's suggestion that a new sub board be made where ths issue can be discussed by those who wish to discuss it.
I thought that was a pretty good idea, as there have been a FEW people who have complained.
When you were covering the TMB with your posts about RP, I contacted you and asked that you take it off the main board. I never cussed at you, and tried to help you with that issue.
I am not sure if you feel that the abuse of children is a subject that should be swept aside and not dealt with openly or not, but I really have a hard time understanding what your problem with it is.
If there are several threads going about the issue, that means that people are reading and responding to them. You DON"T have to read them, you can start a new thread about another subject, or bring up another subject that interests you.
Could you explain to the rest of us regular posters what it is about this subject that you are offended by? Please try to use language which expresses your feeings, but without attacking or cussing.
Thanks,
Scott
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Apr 2, 2008 0:35:40 GMT -5
Ran, I have known about the case in Michigan for several months now. I gave my word to Lyle Schober that I would NOT post anything about the case until it became public, and then I would do my best to try and make sure that only the truth of the matter got posted here. I am not on a witch hunt here, and I am not out to expose anyone. It is the job of the authorities to take care of dealing with the abusers and bringing them to justice. My role here is to attempt to help those who are hurting there in Michigan, and to help start the healing process. You can only heal by taking care of the pain. By bringing the sexual abuse issues out into the light of Christ, they can be dealt with. If it is left in the darkness, the sickness grows and never goes away for those who have been abused. I am a part of the www.wingsfortruth.info/website. We are there to help people who need help dealing with abuse issues within the truth fellowship. There aren't very many of us working on this, and we all work pretty darn hard to help out those in the truth fellowship to heal from the issues surrounding abuse. There are a lot of professing folks who are coming to this website right now searching for answers to whats happening to their church. I'm not in this for the glory, because there is none for me. I am not in this for fame, because it is a pretty sad thing to be associated with. I am not in this to try to make a name for myself, because it isn't a name that I would seek. I am in it because someone needs to fight for the kids who are abused and need the help I can offer. I am in it because of all the emails I get thanking me for someone finally caring enough to care. I am in it because I feel that God has placed this on me. Don't you know that I would rather just be a simple biker dude who could talk a little scripture and make a lot of stupid jokes? They are about the only thing that is keeping me sane these days. I care about my fellow man. I want to help those who are not in a position to help themselves. You've done a pretty good job tonight of showing me just what you think of all the effort I am putting into helping a church that I don't attend. Sleep well my friend, goodnight Scott
|
|
|
Post by Humm on Apr 2, 2008 0:36:39 GMT -5
i blame the few people that are on this quest to expose all this crap going on, and its on child abuse, with sad, emotional, stories of cruelty, and pain, and they fill this site with it. they don't even give a rats ass if there are people that don't want to see this depressing stuff pasted in front of them on every click of the mouse. they can find there own site.... this is not the one. to top it off, its on a site where there is already tension with the F&Ws, so the trolls that hate the friends take advantage of this "quest" by exploiting it. are you blind? is everyone so self centered that they cant see that this is not the place to hold their child molestation investigations... hell, come hold them at my house... i am at work all day... you can do my dishes while you are at it. let me make it clear: exposing all this is a good thing. but not on the TMB !!!!!!!!!This is strange self righteousness coming from one who just abused all of us with foul language and used the Lords name in vain. I don't see any of that in the other threads. Only yours.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Apr 2, 2008 4:51:26 GMT -5
Those who know me best know of my deep comittment to my Church, my Faith, and my dogmatic and unyeilding stance on both. I am a "hardcore 2x2" as it were. Despite this, or rather because of this, I want this information to continue to be discussed and brought to light. I want darkness to be abolished.
The Church should be the place where evil shrivels, where selfishness decays, and base lusts die a swift death. The Church should be holy, safe, and pure. It should be full of people who have an abiding faith, full of happy, joyous children, full of laughter, full of goodness, full of love. It should be the house of the Living God.
My mother was molested by an elder. He is now dead and I have discovered this information many years later (just recently, indeed), or I would surely have confronted this pretender in the Church and dealt with him. I think I might have killed him myself. I love my mother dearly, but I see the damage child sexual abuse causes - the silence, the dark nights, and approach of the abuser as a signal of pain and existential angst. It must never be allowed to survive in the Church of God. It must be rooted out and purged away.
Is it a pleasant discussion? No. Sin is never a pleasant topic for the enlightened mind. Is it disgusting and chilling? Yes, and may we never lose that chill when we think of it. Is it disturbing and does it shake our little world? Yes.
But we serve Jesus of Nazareth, and because we love his name and honour his reputation, we do not want this filth to besmirch it. We want Jesus to be honoured by all. We pray that Christ might have pre-eminence, and put all things under his feet. Because we trust in Jesus, and believe in Jesus, and we know that ultimately, in the final analysis, he will have victory over all sins.
Amen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2008 5:13:59 GMT -5
Well said Glory in Truth.
You know that we do not see eye to eye on the definition of the church (i.e. you appear to believe that people found in the Meetings alone constitute the true church whereas I affirm that all those who believe and trust in Christ wherever they may fellowship constitute Christ's church and His bride).
However I cannot disagree with anything you have said in your post with regard to the abuse issue, and it was said in your usual measured and articulate fashion. Your prose is a pleasure to read, even more so when I agree with it!
Anyway, there is enough evidence in all our backyards (fellowships, communities) that such abuse happens. It is as much about abuse of power and lack of accountability as it is about the sexual aspect. The sexual aspect is an absolute tragedy, and the powers that be seem more concerned about protecting reputations and livelihoods than delivering justice for the oppressed.
Let us all seek in regard to these matters at least, to address these issues sensitively but effectively, trusting in Christ, and working through the authorities and helping agencies that exist for this purpose. Also websites such as wingsfortruth.
It is time for all who name the name of our Saviour and Redeemer to stand together in order to cooperate and be proactive in confronting this scourge not only of the 2x2 fellowship, but any social group in which it occurs, including other churches (sadly). Scott is one who is doing an excellent job in this respect.
I am sorry that Ranman is so affronted by attempts to acknowledge the unpleasant reality and work through these issues in a collegiate manner that he sees no other recourse but to be blindly abusive, spewing the foulest invective and pornographic suggestions apparently directed at other posters and their children. Not a good advertisement for the One True Church in my opinion. Maybe some more balanced workers and friends will read what is written here and wonder what drives a professing lad to such extremes of insane rhetoric. I wonder was he abused as a child?
Just when you think it is safe to go back...(yes, that was a joke)
Sincerely
Alistair
|
|
|
Post by I m o on Apr 2, 2008 7:58:48 GMT -5
This will be interesting to see how the TMB is when the abc news reporter checks in here tomorrow. For one, they will see that there are still some who will do anything to see that the subject is not talked about. And most days it is, timing is everything I guess.
|
|