timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Apr 2, 2008 8:34:06 GMT -5
I, like GIT, am professing though I do not believe that one must belong to our church in order to be saved. I DO stand with GIT though and give my full support in bringing these cases of abuse to light. Hiding this abuse is evil. It is ungodly and it is not a good testimony of Christ.
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Post by loveanurse on Apr 2, 2008 15:14:00 GMT -5
A BIG thanks and hug for all of Scott's efforts!!! Ranman, I don't know you personally but have debated with you re: the war and I know you post your dislike with the government's decisions ON THIS SITE, and I have found that offensive since my husband is active duty military and has been for 18 years. And even though I disliked your postings about it on this board..... I never asked you to stop posting about it, since it is a free country, I just chose not to read it. However, I agree, it might be a good idea to start another site on this board used for abuse related issues as it directly involves the fellowship for which this board was created for. I know you are passionate about your beliefs and I respect you for that.
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Post by midwesterner on Apr 2, 2008 15:22:52 GMT -5
yes, I also applaud Scott's actions in these matters. If it weren't for him and others like him, we wouldn't have clue to how widespread this is the system we have left. Like the old saying goes, "its a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it".
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Post by midwesterner on Apr 2, 2008 15:25:09 GMT -5
Scott wrote: This will be interesting to see how the TMB is when the abc news reporter checks in here tomorrow.
This is one of the web sites that the TV station has been given as a place where those who are in meetings and those who have left meetings gather to discuss issues within the truth fellowship
Scott, is there a website available to see what they reporter discusses about this site and any others?
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Post by gues on Apr 2, 2008 15:34:40 GMT -5
Well now... This will be interesting to see how the TMB is when the abc news reporter checks in here tomorrow. This is one of the web sites that the TV station has been given as a place where those who are in meetings and those who have left meetings gather to discuss issues within the truth fellowship. It has been portrayed as one of the better sites as far as open and honest communication. wow,and then it may be that it is so open that nothing is believable on here! Even that assessment needs to be scrutinized!
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Nichole M
Senior Member
I John 1:5 ..... God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Posts: 486
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Post by Nichole M on Apr 2, 2008 15:56:33 GMT -5
It has been sujested and some here have agreed that it may be better to have a seperate section for discussing the child abuse cases that come out regarding the 2x2's. I see their point in one way - but in another - I think it would be easier for people to just overlook that site and it would be easier for people not to see how widespread this is and how damaging it is.
Maybe it is a way to sweep it out of sight. that way we do not have to remember or know of the horrors these children have had to face. A way of making the children invisable again. To make everything seem ok again.
There are threads here that I don't read or one I do not choose to respiond to.....Because I have a choice. And for those who do not want to read or know about the abuse instead of making it go to different location so that they don't have to even see the title of the thread - how about if they take their right to choose and they can choose not to read them or respond.
Why is it that we have to conform to the ones that make a big stink that they can't handle something.
It is far better to be open and honest about things - even the ugly things.
Just my thought.
And thanks to Scott who is involves so closely with these cases and his willingness to do so. Thanks to Scott, for getting accurate information and relaying it on and for one who keeps his word - ie to lyle about not posting anything until it came out in the open.
Nichole
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Post by loveanurse on Apr 2, 2008 15:59:32 GMT -5
Good point Nichole......it would be easier to overlook if some had their way.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2008 16:04:13 GMT -5
It will be interesting to find out how an unbiased opinion about the posts here judge the posters intents.
I am thinking that , in the realm of world problems, the effort to magnify issues is easily perceived, when the full context of the case is known, even though I know very litttle myself....about any of this case, I certainly am willing to ''reserve my judgment'' to those that are truly unbiased, and I am trusting that is what will happen!!!!
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Post by sickahart on Apr 2, 2008 18:35:14 GMT -5
Seems to me after reading lots of posts here that ranman 77007 has a problem and really might need to find a new place to wright. P.S. don't quit your day job ranman;D
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terry
Senior Member
Posts: 328
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Post by terry on Apr 2, 2008 18:40:52 GMT -5
I too am grateful for Scott's efforts and for those such as GIT who realize that such evil must be brought to the light.
We hear much about the Catholic Church covering up abuse (which they did and should be damned for it) but they weren't the only ones that covered such things up 20-40 years ago.
When in High School there was a boy scout leader that every knew was molesting his charges but no one every did a thing about it, until one family had the courage to file charges.
I had an instance in which a brother worker attempted to molest me---I resisted such that it stopped--he told me never to tell anyone because it wouldn't be believed. He was right, my mother told me I was evil for even suggesting that a worker would do what I said had happened.
I do worry that in this day a youngster who has a grudge could destroy an innocent adult. I'd like to see the name of the accussed be keep out of the papers also, until such a time that real evidence has been developed. A number of years ago, a man (I knew him, didn't like him much, but have no idea whether he was or wasn't guilty and certainly never saw anything to make me suspecious) was charged with molesting some of his daughters teen age friends (middle of a divorce). He was a teacher (certificate gone) and sold insurance (equally gone) the day his trial was to begin, the parents of the accussing girls refused to allow thier daughters to testify.
In the case being discussed, and I know nothing except from this board, it seems to be pretty obivious that there's a problem.
One question I have is if three workers were removed from the work over this, did Jerome take any steps to initiate an investigation by the police? I know in Indiana anyone who works with kids (teachers, ministers, coaches) are legally required to report any evidence of abuse and I've had to deal with such an issue on a couple of instances--it ain't pleasant.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 2, 2008 19:49:21 GMT -5
RAN>>> DO NOT READ IT IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO!!!! No one is makeing you read it.
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will
Senior Member
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Post by will on Apr 2, 2008 19:58:00 GMT -5
Rantman:
The thought of your foul-mouthed evil posts here followed by you sitting quietly in mid-week Bible study and Sunday morning meeting giving your quiet little testimonty, probably glad for "The Truth" and the Workers bringing you the Gospel and bashing worldly folk... Ya know, it makes me ill.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 2, 2008 20:07:14 GMT -5
When you post the same thing on every thread it is a little hard to avoid it. But I would imagine there are a lot of people that do ignore you.
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Post by Aint it the truth on Apr 2, 2008 20:47:29 GMT -5
will, its sick-o, two-faced people like ratman that made me leave the 2x2s!!
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 2, 2008 22:05:51 GMT -5
Howdy terry, In regards to your question: One question I have is if three workers were removed from the work over this, did Jerome take any steps to initiate an investigation by the police? I know in Indiana anyone who works with kids (teachers, ministers, coaches) are legally required to report any evidence of abuse and I've had to deal with such an issue on a couple of instances--it ain't pleasant.Jerome has been cooperating with the authorities in the matter of the investigations taking place. All the workers I have heard of are also cooperating in the investigations. Scott
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Post by ithascome on Apr 2, 2008 22:57:33 GMT -5
You found my wonder smiling face trying to bring some of the good stuff to the top. ;D
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Post by Wondering 2 on Apr 2, 2008 23:31:43 GMT -5
Howdy terry, In regards to your question: One question I have is if three workers were removed from the work over this, did Jerome take any steps to initiate an investigation by the police? I know in Indiana anyone who works with kids (teachers, ministers, coaches) are legally required to report any evidence of abuse and I've had to deal with such an issue on a couple of instances--it ain't pleasant.Jerome has been cooperating with the authorities in the matter of the investigations taking place. All the workers I have heard of are also cooperating in the investigations. Scott WILLING or FORCED
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 2, 2008 23:58:18 GMT -5
Howdy, I have no indication personally that Jerome was forced into doing anything there in Michigan. I haven't been in touch with him I know that. Scott
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 8:05:52 GMT -5
Howdy, I have no indication personally that Jerome was forced into doing anything there in Michigan. I haven't been in touch with him I know that. Scott The real question is whether or not JF reported (as mandated by the law) his knowledge to the authorities or did he wait until contacted. One of these days, an ambitious DA in some state is going to decide to enforce the mandated reporter law. Our church would be ripe for investigation as most overseers will have knowledge of these kinds of crimes and has not reported. If they care about the church, every overseer should be making a trip into the authorities to report all knowlege of child abuse, past and present.
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Post by w h y on Apr 3, 2008 10:07:19 GMT -5
One of these days, an ambitious DA in some state is going to decide to enforce the mandated reporter law. Our church would be ripe for investigation as most overseers will have knowledge of these kinds of crimes and has not reported. If they care about the church, every overseer should be making a trip into the authorities to report all knowlege of child abuse, past and present. Why do we keep 'preaching to the choir?' (In hopes that some day, some one (worker), some where will happen to read one of these threads and get the message) Not everyone is trying to destroy the 2x2, some are trying to 'clean it up' so it is not destroyed. Sort of like a cancer, it takes pain to correct the problem, but if not taken care of IT WILL DESTROY YOU FROM WITHIN.
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 3, 2008 10:32:53 GMT -5
Howdy, In regards to: Why do we keep 'preaching to the choir?'
(In hopes that some day, some one (worker), some where will happen to read one of these threads and get the message)
Not everyone is trying to destroy the 2x2, some are trying to 'clean it up' so it is not destroyed. Sort of like a cancer, it takes pain to correct the problem, but if not taken care of IT WILL DESTROY YOU FROM WITHINWorkers are reading these messages that are posted here. I know of two that are registered members on this board. I know of several others that read here, and they are getting the message loud and clear. They see how quickly the issues that face them are broadcast to the world in these situations. There is a reporter that is checking some of the stuff out on here. He is seeing that there have been instances in the past where these issues haven't been reported to the authorites as mandated by law. He may be asking some questons in regards to some of these issues in order to find out just what the proper procedure is, and what the penalty is for (example) for an overseer/head overseer who has knowledge of one of his staff members having been accused of molestation, and didn't report it to the authorities, and in fact allowed the worker to continue staying in homes where there are children present and preach without even notifying the members of the church. This is an issue happening right now.... Scott
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Post by The NEWS on Apr 3, 2008 11:04:31 GMT -5
John Quinones, reporter for ABC is an expert in reporting on cases similar to these. He not only reports the story, he helps the people also.
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Post by heal logged out on Apr 3, 2008 11:59:49 GMT -5
I am still unclear what happened
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 12:21:23 GMT -5
Howdy, In regards to: Why do we keep 'preaching to the choir?'
(In hopes that some day, some one (worker), some where will happen to read one of these threads and get the message)
Not everyone is trying to destroy the 2x2, some are trying to 'clean it up' so it is not destroyed. Sort of like a cancer, it takes pain to correct the problem, but if not taken care of IT WILL DESTROY YOU FROM WITHINWorkers are reading these messages that are posted here. I know of two that are registered members on this board. I know of several others that read here, and they are getting the message loud and clear. They see how quickly the issues that face them are broadcast to the world in these situations. There is a reporter that is checking some of the stuff out on here. He is seeing that there have been instances in the past where these issues haven't been reported to the authorites as mandated by law. He may be asking some questons in regards to some of these issues in order to find out just what the proper procedure is, and what the penalty is for (example) for an overseer/head overseer who has knowledge of one of his staff members having been accused of molestation, and didn't report it to the authorities, and in fact allowed the worker to continue staying in homes where there are children present and preach without even notifying the members of the church. This is an issue happening right now.... Scott I agree with you Scott, that messages from this board are filtering through to the hierarchy of the church. Better they learn it here than wait for ABC News (or some other media organization) to get onto this. Overseers have to realize that people who have their faith tied up in the church are going to get hurt over this one way or the other. However, it would be better for the overseers to clean up their own house before someone else does it for them. If they do it themselves, they can control the damage. It's simple, they just have to go and report their knowledge to the authorities and then tell professing people that they had to do because it was required by law. Regular professing people will accept that. However, if it comes out in the media that the overseers are ignorant of the law, or worse, knowledgeable of the law and still refusing to obey it, a lot of people will be hurt and compelled to leave the church, perhaps unhappy and "bitter". It's time we all humbled ourselves and came to the realization that the F&W church is not perfect, we have made mistakes, but now we are willing to correct past errors and move toward a better future. At this point, what is required is the will of the overseers to make things right.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 12:40:01 GMT -5
"Have made mistakes?" How about, "We make mistakes," then admit them openly and attempt to rectify them? Or is it STILL a matter still of infallibility as long as some agree to something and misapply Jesus teachings as to create a false priesthood?
Will there not be great strides made when mistakes are confessed and repented, PUBLICLY? Likely to happen? Personally, I doubt it will anytime soon, from what I have both witnessed and experienced over the decades.
DJ
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 13:32:25 GMT -5
Dennis, as the disclaimers state in financial instrument advertising "past performance does not guarantee future results", fortunately this holds true for all human behaviour too. There are good possibilities for the future.
None of us are particularly prone to admitting error even to ourselves, let alone openly to our peers so it will take a new culture of humility to allow open confession to occur.
The church needs to first stop beating up on members who make mistakes and rather help all brethren to do what's right when errors occur. Once the culture of beating up on errant brethren ceases, a new era of open confession and correction can begin. However, as long as we have proud leaders and a fearful membership, the culture of coverup and dishonesty will continue.
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Post by Chey Kinghead on Apr 3, 2008 13:38:54 GMT -5
Although not acquaint with the "No Contest" plea, I do not understand it to be a conflict between absolute innocence and absolute guilt. Rather I assume it to be a way of resolving argument, debate, trial and all the stresses and strains over establishing the "degree of guilt, or seriousness of the offence ?"
Perhaps I'm wrong. This plea appears to be similar to a plea in the civil courts where I come from, used particularly in divorce cases. One person makes considerable allegations against the other party, who although agreeing to certain misconduct, is adamant that the conduct was nothing like that what is alleged. There is an agreement that some wrong has taken place, albeit of an undetermined nature, understood to be less than the allegations, but nevertheless sufficient to progress the matter. It is an agreement in principle which saves a lot of time and expense in court.
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Post by Oh Come on Apr 3, 2008 16:10:06 GMT -5
Although not acquaint with the "No Contest" plea, I do not understand it to be a conflict between absolute innocence and absolute guilt. Rather I assume it to be a way of resolving argument, debate, trial and all the stresses and strains over establishing the "degree of guilt, or seriousness of the offence ?" Perhaps I'm wrong. This plea appears to be similar to a plea in the civil courts where I come from, used particularly in divorce cases. One person makes considerable allegations against the other party, who although agreeing to certain misconduct, is adamant that the conduct was nothing like that what is alleged. There is an agreement that some wrong has taken place, albeit of an undetermined nature, understood to be less than the allegations, but nevertheless sufficient to progress the matter. It is an agreement in principle which saves a lot of time and expense in court. Oh come come now. Think about this a little. A no contest to allow the courts (i.e. Child Protection) to take you children whom you love away from you based on perhaps false allegations? No way. It is a plea of lesser extent to avoid the clear implications have having it put forth in full court where you could face higher charges. One a plea of No Contest is entered and accepted by the court you cannot be tried for the same allegations because it would be double jepordy. It is a clear CYA from the Court. Now you must ask yourself---Would you roll over and give up your adopted children whom you love without a fight if the allegations were false? Now the problem is that perhaps new charges are being investigated which one could not cop a plea.-------Just does not add up.
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