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Post by Scott Ross on Mar 31, 2008 10:22:42 GMT -5
Howdy, Since one of our registered members posted this on another thread, I thought I would post it here with a few additional facts. Here is the article that was in the newspaper: www.micentral.com/updates/CP.aspTwo Russian females allege abuse by SUSAN YOUNGER staff reporter
BROWN CITY—Two Russian born females, both 19, are alleging they are victims of criminal sexual abuse involving their adoptive parents. “This is a complex case and it will take time to wade through the volume of reports and records,” said Lapeer County Prosecuting Attorney Byron Konschuh. “It involves multiple potential suspects.” The police investigation began when the two females recently contended they were victims of criminal sexual conduct which they alleged involved prostitution. The females were 4 and 5-years-old when they were adopted by the Brown City couple, who eventually adopted four more children from Russia. The older siblings claim the abuse occurred for 14 years—from 1994 to present. Police aren’t commenting on the specifics of their allegations. “This is an ongoing investigation, and it wouldn’t be proper for me to comment right now,” said Michigan State Police Lt. Patrick McGreevy, who commands both the Lapeer and Sandusky posts. “No warrants have been issued.” Though the accusations are serious, there is no urgency to rush through the investigation, said Konschuh. “The two no longer live in the home,” said Konschuh. “We will take our time.” The four other adopted children, all school age, are in the foster care system. That placement is not related to the allegations of the older two, said Konschuh. The WINGS group at: wingsfortruth.info/Has been aware of this case for some time, but did not want to post anything until this case became public knowledge. Since it is now publicly acknowledged, I will furnish details, but very few names. As Lapeer County Prosecuting Attorney Byron Konschuh states. “It involves multiple potential suspects.” There are currently 3 workers that have been removed from the work in Michigan related to this case, and other names have been given as well. (edit: Two of these workers were removed for issues unrelated to the current investigation, but are linked to this investigation. The 3rd worker has voluntarily stepped down as a worker during the current investigation. He maintains that he has done nothing wrong, and his stepping down is for the good of the fellowship at this point) As Michigan State Police Lt. Patrick McGreevy stated “No warrants have been issued.” This will be a lengthy investigation, and I am sure will be picked up in the local TV news as well. If you have information about the case, you can contact: Michigan State Police Sandusky Satellite Post 90 W. Sanilac Sandusky, MI 48471 (810)648-2233 For those who are uncomfortable about reporting directly to the state police, they can funnel information through the WINGS site at: wingsfortruth.info/Or feel free to contact me at my email address: bescottross@aol.com Other information concerning this case: The news article is relatively accurate w/ the exception of the girls' ages--they were nearly 6 years old when they came in Nov 94. The girls haven't actually been saying the word "prostitution", tho that is an accurate description of what was happening edited due to this being an unproven point...and the article is accurate in the sense that sexual abuse allegations were not why the 4 younger children were taken into state custody...it was b/c of Physical abuse and neglect that the parents plead guilty (edit: according to the TV news report, it wasn't a guilty plea, it was a 'no contest plea that was entered) after the Oct 26 deposition in which xxxxxxxxx testified for 2+ hours...in the courtroom with only her parents and 3 attorneys and a court reporter present. She is a very very brave little girl. The sexual abuse allegations came later and there is an open investigation re the sexual abuse allegations re the 4 minor children.The details of this case are horrific to say the least if all is true. I have given my word to workers and investigators that I will try to make sure that only factual information is posted concerning this, and that the WINGS group will provide as much assistance as possible to the victims, workers and investigating authorities. Scott Edit: This is a local television report about the abuse case. It is posted down below in this thread also:
abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=6052914Susan Younger (reporter of article) may be reached at (810)664-0811, ext. 8122 or susan.younger@lapeergroup.com
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Post by Disappointed on Mar 31, 2008 11:03:09 GMT -5
I cannot mention names however I can offer proof; a similar case in Oregon involving an "Elder" and his adopted children was swept under the veil of deception..."to protect the kingdom". This man did time in county jail, once released, left "the truth" never to be heard from again. He and his "wife" do not have the support of "the friends" but sadly neither does the victim.
What can we do? Doesn't this stereotype get old? I understand that this behavior/sickness is not isolated to the F&W's but for some reason the type of power, authority, and ability to cover-up surpasses that of the Catholic Church.
I am an onlooker who will take action. With Gratitude
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 31, 2008 11:04:11 GMT -5
I can hear the spin now " You know how those Russian girls are" Make the accused the victim and poison the well about the accusation. Thanks for the heads up Scott. Anything I can do write me a PM Ken
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Hol
Junior Member
Posts: 146
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Post by Hol on Mar 31, 2008 11:16:32 GMT -5
My heart just breaks!
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 31, 2008 11:17:58 GMT -5
I cannot mention names however I can offer proof; a similar case in Oregon involving an "Elder" and his adopted children was swept under the veil of deception..."to protect the kingdom". This man did time in county jail, once released, left "the truth" never to be heard from again. He and his "wife" do not have the support of "the friends" but sadly neither does the victim. What can we do? Doesn't this stereotype get old? I understand that this behavior/sickness is not isolated to the F&W's but for some reason the type of power, authority, and ability to cover-up surpasses that of the Catholic Church. I am an onlooker who will take action. With Gratitude Can you share when this was? And where? (I just want to make sure his name is on the WINGS list of convicted sexual abusers.) Thanks
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Post by degem on Mar 31, 2008 11:20:09 GMT -5
I have been going back and forth in my mind as to whether I wanted to post a comment here.
I know I have (and I believe others have too) had situations arise where I wish I could wave a magic wand and poof- the situation has magically disappeared. Or perhaps if one puts their "head in the sand" so to speak and refuse to deal with a situation...that it will go away on its own. But we all know this is not true. Life does not work that way. Plain and simple. So then we know that as horrific and painful a situation has become... the best option is to face that situation head on and DEAL with it..no matter how hurtful and heartbreaking it is. These are my honest comments for what it is worth and probably not worth much at all.
All I can say right now about this situation is its hearbreaking, its horrific,
Have a great week Gem
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I dont think hes on the list
Guest
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Post by I dont think hes on the list on Mar 31, 2008 11:21:54 GMT -5
I will check and if not give you his name
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Post by Where is the list on Mar 31, 2008 11:27:22 GMT -5
I am able to find the list on the left margin. Is there a more complete list?
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 31, 2008 12:35:25 GMT -5
There is another WINGS list, but it is not made available to the public.
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Post by ehhh on Mar 31, 2008 12:48:16 GMT -5
There is another WINGS list, but it is not made available to the public. What 'level' of offender does one have to be to make the public list? Or is it anyone who is/was 'professing' and has a 'sexual asualt' prison record? Just wondering the criteria thx
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 31, 2008 12:56:25 GMT -5
Public List: Anyone who is/was 'professing' and has a 'sexual assault' prison record - and that WINGS is able to verify in public records.
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Post by Make Public on Mar 31, 2008 13:25:21 GMT -5
Public List: Anyone who is/was 'professing' and has a 'sexual assault' prison record - and that WINGS is able to verify in public records. I am just wondering why the "LIST" is not public if verifying was done with public records? ? Also, the WINGS website cannot be deleted like this board can. Yet you write that the "LIST" is verified.....Just wondering!
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Post by two faced on Mar 31, 2008 13:41:44 GMT -5
Public List: Anyone who is/was 'professing' and has a 'sexual assault' prison record - and that WINGS is able to verify in public records. I am just wondering why the "LIST" is not public if verifying was done with public records? ? Also, the WINGS website cannot be deleted like this board can. Yet you write that the "LIST" is verified.....Just wondering! Can we 'assume' that the public list is verified and includes public records? And the 'other list' has not been able to be verified so it is still accusations and hearsay or 'under investigation?'
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Post by Make Public on Mar 31, 2008 13:47:55 GMT -5
I apologize-----
I reread the thread and I misunderstood, I see what I missed.
Sorry-----
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Post by Pete and Repeat on Mar 31, 2008 13:54:26 GMT -5
Yawn!
So, what else is new?
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Post by lute1812 on Mar 31, 2008 17:31:30 GMT -5
Public List: Anyone who is/was 'professing' and has a 'sexual assault' prison record - and that WINGS is able to verify in public records. If they are on public record, verifiable, those individuals are on Sexual Offender Registry's in each state which is INTERNET assessable. So legally there's nothing anyone can do. I know I lived in a trailer park in Ann Arbor, MI, when accepted to the University of Michigan Law School, and at one point in time, 3 individuals on MI SOL lived there, and I reported listing discrepancy's to the Michigan State Police. The authorities always welcome those that forward information of inaccuracies, search criteria discrepancies, ... etc. I know they always sent me a letter of appreciation. Being out since '80, stories like this are tragic, especially when they entail workers, who many of us have held in high esteem over the years. It's a very sad and despicable situation that should be prosecuted to the fullest. Lute1812
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Post by another link on Mar 31, 2008 19:23:13 GMT -5
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Nichole M
Senior Member
I John 1:5 ..... God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Posts: 486
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Post by Nichole M on Mar 31, 2008 19:40:29 GMT -5
Scott - Thank you!!!! You did a great job in letting us know what is going on.
Some may think why talk about this - That it is better to keep quiet. But that is how abuse continues to go on. Openly talking of these cases will help everyone see just how insideous it is even the the 2x2 group.
It is amazing how soon after Tim Severand that here is another case - It is good that it has the media attention as well.
Nichole
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Post by hammer on Mar 31, 2008 21:02:16 GMT -5
They just want the kids back, but the court documents in the TV clip shows they used a hammer on them.
Pretty sick
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Post by aussiegal on Mar 31, 2008 23:19:07 GMT -5
They just want the kids back, but the court documents in the TV clip shows they used a hammer on them. Pretty sick Someone once told me that another name for "defense lawyers" is "spin doctors". ;D
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Post by lilwolfmisty on Apr 1, 2008 2:02:23 GMT -5
This case disturbs me on many levels. First of all how did CPS get involved? ( was it marks and then a mandated reporter i.e. a teacher report it?). The lawyer states that his clients have passed SIX lie detector tests! Let me tell you how CPS works they tend to get parents and children separated then they keep picking apart your parenting style, your bedtime, your rules etc... until the children think anything is abuse. That there have been no criminal charges against the parents tells me that they probably made some mistakes parenting ( whom of us doesn't), but is it really as bad as this report says? How much of what happened was discipline and where did any actions cross the line to abuse? Hell if someone looked at my court documents they would think I was a horrible horrible person, but those who know me, and my family including my children know the real truth. CPS can make up lies, they can see 2 dishes in the sink and say there were 4 days of dishes in the sink and they were moldy. They have no compunction about flat out lieing. A child could say that the parents put them in a separate room in time out and it can turn into the parents put their child in a dark room for hours at a time. For instance my daughter had been told to clean up her dogs mess which was by the door, and I had told her she couldn't go outside til she did it, we were at a stand off. Well about that time a CPS wrecker came over for a "drop in visit" and her report to the court said "there were dog and cat feces and urine all throughout the house,and it smelled and was unsanitary" OMG all from one pile of doo doo that we were having a argument about! You can even ask my daughter now she remembers the incident well. So first of all I do not think just because it is in a court paper does it make it true? On what the older kids are saying about the sexual abuse, I pray that it is just because they aren't afraid any more and are empowered to tell. Please understand I am not saying that these parents were not bad parents, but we just need to be careful, because contrary to some people's belief CPS does not have to prove anything in court and they can say anything they want. Also counselors that are paid by the state are paid to make kids talk. Sometimes the kids just start talking and making up things because the social wreckers and counselors say "if you tell us what we want to know we will let you go home..." "we are your friends you can tell us anything". If these parents really abused their kids then they should be held accountable, if they did not abuse, but allowed workers or others to abuse their kids and didn't listen then they need support and help to understand what went on and much counseling to heal the guilt, pain, shame and blame that both the victims and the parents of victims feel when that happens. In any case my prayers are with all of the children of this couple that the truth would be known, that compassion and wisdom would be applied in the whole case, and that if workers are involved that it would be brought into the light and delt with by law enforcement first and by the congregation at secondly. If someone doesn't believe what I have said about CPS please email me I will give you websites with statistics that would curl your toes about CPS and the foster care system. In most cases foster care is more unsafe than the home the kids were taken from. Very scary!
Blessings, Misty
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 2:15:49 GMT -5
Misty, We run a family placement home for teenage kids (for social services) My wife works as a social worker in a institution for teenage girls -- We have pretty much daily contact with different levels of the justice system and social system in our country.
I do believe you, understand you, and have every respect and admiration for your thoughts on the issue. However, although much may be twisted in the system -- there are good aspects in it as well - and sometimes there is no other road to go. (I will admit that even from the other side of the world, some of the same thoughts you mentioned went through my mind when I read the account!!)
Edgar Massey
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Post by Judgment Day on Apr 1, 2008 5:25:43 GMT -5
misty, i can relate so well with what you are saying. we had a child we had to ask to leave when she become of legal age, as she was a holy terror, always fabricating lies just to get her way. Everything revolved around her and she was always making the other kids cry and doing so much behind our backs, we were actually fearful of her! you never know what she was up to or conniving next. So for everyone's saftey, we asked her to move out and you'd think it was the end of the world! the workers even got involved and tried to talk to her, blah blah blah, don't need to say anymore, when it comes to worker involvement, as it made the whole situation so much worse. It got to the point we had to go to the lawyers and basically "divorce" her so we could protect ourselves and our assets, as she had such an evil mind and so much hatred. And she was never abused or harshly disciplined, it was just her selfish attitude and how everything revolved around her. So, yes, I can understand how lawyers can twist things around on a whim and all I can say if it happens to you, keep the faith and stay on your knees until it blows over. Prayer is the only thing that kept us through it all, as the workers and friends were no help at all, because all they did was side with the 19 yr old "holy terror" since she was the minor in the situation. Needless to say, I left the 2x2 system right after all this mess.
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Post by huhh on Apr 1, 2008 6:58:39 GMT -5
They just want the kids back, but the court documents in the TV clip shows they used a hammer on them. Pretty sick The 'hammer' caught my eye also. Oh the the lighter side, it could have been dropped on one of them or could have been used to nail a childs chair to the floor. Let's hope it's not more serious than that, if it is, I'm sure we will hear the details.
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Post by friend1 on Apr 1, 2008 9:04:23 GMT -5
misty, i can relate so well with what you are saying. we had a child we had to ask to leave when she become of legal age, as she was a holy terror, always fabricating lies just to get her way. Everything revolved around her and she was always making the other kids cry and doing so much behind our backs, we were actually fearful of her! you never know what she was up to or conniving next. So for everyone's saftey, we asked her to move out and you'd think it was the end of the world! the workers even got involved and tried to talk to her, blah blah blah, don't need to say anymore, when it comes to worker involvement, as it made the whole situation so much worse. It got to the point we had to go to the lawyers and basically "divorce" her so we could protect ourselves and our assets, as she had such an evil mind and so much hatred. And she was never abused or harshly disciplined, it was just her selfish attitude and how everything revolved around her. So, yes, I can understand how lawyers can twist things around on a whim and all I can say if it happens to you, keep the faith and stay on your knees until it blows over. Prayer is the only thing that kept us through it all, as the workers and friends were no help at all, because all they did was side with the 19 yr old "holy terror" since she was the minor in the situation. Needless to say, I left the 2x2 system right after all this mess. Seems like there's always two sides to every situation, isn't there? One classic is the one in the Bible about the woman taken in adultery. Seems like the report was that she was caught in the very act. So where was the guy? And how about the voyeurs who somehow witnessed enough of the episode to catch her (them?) in the very act. So, at best one knows less than half of the truth, at least in this case!
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Post by Not Skeptical on Apr 1, 2008 10:55:00 GMT -5
If there was nothing done wrong (beyond normal discipline or actual physical or sexual abuse) then why did the parents plead "NO CONTEST" to the custody hearing of the remaining children.
No contest plea means that you are not admitting guilt but will also not fight the allegations. This is a way many people keep all the dirt from coming out in a full court hearing. If it were my children adopted or not; and I did nothing wrong, I would not plead no contest but would fight. Most who plead no contest do it to avoid the guilty plea. As such, the accused are accepting the Courts disposition without going into a case of the people. Hence, the accused are trying to avoid criminal charges because there will not be a full case to review all the allegations. In this particular case however, more allegations are pending which will not allow the parents to avoid them or skip the review of a full court by NO Contest.
The other side of the coin is that they may not fight because they know all charges will be dropped--However, this line of thinking would not support a "No Contest" plea for the custody of the remaining children. It appears to me that there was some serious breaches for the welfare of the children due to the No Contest plea
I repeat, who pleads "No Contest" when they are Innocent. Nobody.
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Post by rational on Apr 1, 2008 11:10:37 GMT -5
I repeat, who pleads "No Contest" when they are Innocent. Nobody. There is a cost to going to trial, both financial and emotional. If the other team, usually the state, has a good lawyer and virtually unlimited funds and your resources are limited no contest is a way to get out from under it all. On the other hand, I agree with you regarding the children. But how would the trial go when the older women have made their claims public? Although they may be innocent they might have felt that they would not stand a chance in a trial.
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Post by maybe on Apr 1, 2008 11:16:39 GMT -5
If there was nothing done wrong (beyond normal discipline or actual physical or sexual abuse) then why did the parents plead "NO CONTEST" to the custody hearing of the remaining children. No contest plea means that you are not admitting guilt but will also not fight the allegations. This is a way many people keep all the dirt from coming out in a full court hearing. If it were my children adopted or not; and I did nothing wrong, I would not plead no contest but would fight. Most who plead no contest do it to avoid the guilty plea. As such, the accused are accepting the Courts disposition without going into a case of the people. Hence, the accused are trying to avoid criminal charges because there will not be a full case to review all the allegations. In this particular case however, more allegations are pending which will not allow the parents to avoid them or skip the review of a full court by NO Contest. The other side of the coin is that they may not fight because they know all charges will be dropped--However, this line of thinking would not support a "No Contest" plea for the custody of the remaining children. It appears to me that there was some serious breaches for the welfare of the children due to the No Contest plea I repeat, who pleads "No Contest" when they are Innocent. Nobody. I believe in the same kind of disipline that was common 30-40 years ago. While not illegal, the goverment is moving in that direction. I think I may plead 'no contest.' To some, any kind of physical discipline is wrong. If I knew I was up against someone like that it may be the 'easy' or faster way out. If I felt I could get my kids back in a month if I pleaded 'no contest' or six months if I plead 'not guilty,' I'd go with no contest. All that said, I have no information on this case, and am willing to accept innocent until proven guilty ... and the children have been removed from the situation.
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