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Post by wondering on May 14, 2006 17:48:39 GMT -5
If Jim Knipe and company had it to do over again, I wonder if they would have set off the mass wave of excommunications and exits! I think the internet facilitated these sets of events. There will continue to be fallout as children of the excommunicated ones find another church. Maybe these people had the guts to stand up to the powers and demand accountability!
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Post by main man on May 14, 2006 18:07:34 GMT -5
I applaud the Canadian workers who had the guts to get rid of the deadbeats that were just causing trouble in the church.You have to cut the cancer out.I WISH WE HAD MORE WORKERS IN THE USA THAT WOULD DO THIS.THE WORKERS IN THE USA ARE AFRAID TO OFFEND SOMEONE!!
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Post by nitro on May 14, 2006 18:17:26 GMT -5
Read my signature it says it all!!!! ;D
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Post by nitro on May 14, 2006 18:21:29 GMT -5
By the way the Metastatic disease that had spread to all the Workers in that area killed fellowship via meetings but did not stop them from serving CHRIST.
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Does the net spoil things
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Post by Does the net spoil things on May 14, 2006 18:25:41 GMT -5
Re - you sayd that the internet facilitated this exodus ... back in 30 A.D. everyone knew the "truth" that Jesus wasn't from Bethlehem as the bible says. Everyone knew he was just the son of Mary and Joseph and not God. Everybody knew the troubles in the church between James and Paul. It was seriously small town back then, everyone knew everything. It made little difference to the little meetings those early Christians had.
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Post by 30 AD on May 14, 2006 18:29:09 GMT -5
Re - you sayd that the internet facilitated this exodus ... back in 30 A.D. everyone knew the "truth" that Jesus wasn't from Bethlehem as the bible says. Everyone knew he was just the son of Mary and Joseph and not God. Everybody knew the troubles in the church between James and Paul. It was seriously small town back then, everyone knew everything. It made little difference to the little meetings those early Christians had. Very interesting!! Where do you read "It made little difference to the little meetings those early christians had." Please quote the scripture.......
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Post by adfdaf on May 14, 2006 18:58:14 GMT -5
Dunno, I am at my computer. Look up "increased in numbers daily" Look up "great number of priests were obedient to the faith" Look up how many little churches there were all over the place in the letters and Acts. Revelations was to the "seven churches" but that was symbolic - there were a lot more than 7 mentioned in the NT in Asia alone - not counting Rome, Spain etc.. They flourished despite the scandals, VOY's, gossip and nay-sayers about their founders.
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Post by aadffd on May 14, 2006 18:59:34 GMT -5
Dunno, I am at my computer. Look up "increased in numbers daily" Look up how many little churches there were all over the place in the letters and Acts. Revelations was to the "seven churches" but that was symbolic - there were a lot more than 7 mentioned in the NT in Asia alone - not counting Rome, Spain etc.. They flourished despite the scandals, VOT's, gossip and nay-sayers about their founders.
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Post by adfa on May 14, 2006 19:00:55 GMT -5
Oops, I hit the same button twice, sorry.
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Post by really on May 14, 2006 22:21:20 GMT -5
Dunno, I am at my computer. Look up "increased in numbers daily" Look up how many little churches there were all over the place in the letters and Acts. Revelations was to the "seven churches" but that was symbolic - there were a lot more than 7 mentioned in the NT in Asia alone - not counting Rome, Spain etc.. They flourished despite the scandals, VOT's, gossip and nay-sayers about their founders. not in 30 A.D.
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Post by as i c it on May 14, 2006 22:38:19 GMT -5
main man,
Just when I'm about to leave the net (in peace with myself) you just had to go and post that bit about getting rid of the cancer...didn't you!!!
And you wish it would happen in the USA, do you??? Well, might be good if it did--and, if you're really lucky, and God sees fit to grant you your wish...maybe it'll even happen to you!!!
(Go back and read all that took place again. And this time, put yourself in their place: and then see if you'd still make that kind of remark).
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Fade away or be forced out
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Post by Fade away or be forced out on May 14, 2006 22:50:46 GMT -5
Wonder if Jim Knipe has been able to shed "PRIDE"? Would pride have anything to do with not making things RIGHT? Would those who were EXed want back into the fellowship again knowing what they now know? Does anyone what their salvation governed by earthly judges?
Is it better to jump ship or be kicked out? I have chosed to just jump ship. I watched a very close friend question the workers on a topic using properly applied scripture as his guide. He was told to do it "OUR WAY". He and I are now having Bible Studies together. Becuase we have chosed the conversational method of study, we have gained and grown a lot in knowing and serving God.
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Post by GetAClueMainMan on May 14, 2006 23:49:05 GMT -5
I applaud the Canadian workers who had the guts to get rid of the deadbeats that were just causing trouble in the church.You have to cut the cancer out.I WISH WE HAD MORE WORKERS IN THE USA THAT WOULD DO THIS.THE WORKERS IN THE USA ARE AFRAID TO OFFEND SOMEONE!! Organized religions do this... the management (man) makes the rules and enforces them by, among other means, purging the system of those that insist on breaking the rules. The workers in Canada were simply doing their job as management. A little strong handed? Yes, but strong handed management is nothing new. Perhaps the management in the USA is simply not as forceful as its counterpart in Canada. Management can run this thing straight into the ground to the point where there is not one Worker-sanctioned-friend left on the face of earth... and it simply won't matter. God won't vanish, and neither will those who love him. The Pizza Hut here in town went out of business a few years ago. Now I get my Pizza from a Ma and Pa's Pizza shop nearby. You may not like this, but tough! God cannot be bound by the pathetic chains of man and his rube-goldberg religious systems. Quit worshipping the system and focus on God himself, not the cloak man keeps trying to throw over him.
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 15, 2006 2:50:17 GMT -5
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Post by as i c it on May 15, 2006 2:50:51 GMT -5
When I think about the Alberta Excommunications, I'm very grateful that I wasn't an elder (or I'd probably be out today): and I'm very grateful that I wasn't a worker (or I'd probably have said even worse than what is on the tapes).
Anger will either provide the motivation for us to be very courageous: or it can bring out the worst in us.
Since all that were involved were believers in God, I can only assume whatever took place was God's will...for the church, and for each of the individuals involved.
I have no idea who regrets what: but as a believer, I regret the loss of others and all that they contributed to our church.
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Post by MC on May 15, 2006 6:55:31 GMT -5
To Really You saiad, "not in 30AD' Don't know when the church increased in numbers. If Jesus was born in ca 4 BC and died at 33. That would put it, what, 29 AD? The book of Acts follows on from that time. Cant be more specific. Sorry.
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Post by l on May 15, 2006 9:37:36 GMT -5
I think one thing about the Alberta Mass Excommunications is it has left me with a lot more insight into the 2x2 group
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Post by l on May 15, 2006 9:42:18 GMT -5
When I think about the Alberta Excommunications, I'm very grateful that I wasn't an elder (or I'd probably be out today): and I'm very grateful that I wasn't a worker (or I'd probably have said even worse than what is on the tapes) Just my take on the situation but I'm glad to be out of the 2x2s I do not want to belong to the group
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 15, 2006 9:47:05 GMT -5
And what is that "insight" Lloyd? That people were removed from fellowship? That people had to make a stand for what they believe in? I wonder how many people and how many whole churches were removed from fellowship during the era of the apostolic churches. I have no idea about this Alberta business. But I recall reading how when Samuel told Saul the kingdom was removed from him, Saul spent the night crying to God about Saul. And Saul, like any of those people removed from fellowship, can repent.
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 15, 2006 9:48:35 GMT -5
That should read, Samuel spent the night crying to God. Sorry
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Post by l on May 15, 2006 9:48:36 GMT -5
Wonder if Jim Knipe has been able to shed "PRIDE"? Would pride have anything to do with not making things RIGHT? Would those who were EXed want back into the fellowship again knowing what they now know? Does anyone what their salvation governed by earthly judges? The WWCG made changes why can't the 2x2s also.The WWCG lost half there members but they are still going today and can at least save a little face
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 15, 2006 9:49:51 GMT -5
What is this WWCG, Lloyd?
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Post by l on May 15, 2006 9:51:19 GMT -5
Re - you sayd that the internet facilitated this exodus ... back in 30 A.D. everyone knew the "truth" that Jesus wasn't from Bethlehem as the bible says. Everyone knew he was just the son of Mary and Joseph and not God. Everybody knew the troubles in the church between James and Paul. It was seriously small town back then, everyone knew everything. It made little difference to the little meetings those early Christians had. I can imagine they figured Jesus parents was Joseph and Mary of course many with no revelation did think this
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 15, 2006 9:55:26 GMT -5
Lloyd, re Jesus' parents. Jesus made the claim publicly that he was the son of God. Many wanted to expose that he was a man like any other man, so they emphasised the point. To the Galileans the facts about Jesus' parents complete over-rode any other consideration about Jesus, regardless of what he could do, and how he spoke. This is the old "founder" issue again. The issue with hearing the gospel is knowing what is of God, and what is of man.
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Post by Rob O on May 15, 2006 9:58:57 GMT -5
Unless, perhaps, those people have nothing to repent over, and it is the workers involved who should be doing the repenting.
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Post by las logged out on May 15, 2006 9:59:02 GMT -5
What is this WWCG, Lloyd? The WWCG: The World Wide Church of God by Garner Ted Armstrong..and Herbert Armstrong Garner was the excommunicated son Herbert the father..This church admitted that they preached falsely for many years
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 15, 2006 10:31:20 GMT -5
Thanks las. I must look into this. But one thing is clear, my own faith does not preach falsely. You name me one church which is closer to what the foundation church and its ministry was like. And if you say that following the example of that church is no longer important then you put yourself into some bad company.
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Post by For Example on May 15, 2006 10:46:51 GMT -5
MC: Please show us in the scripture where the "example of that church" IS a universal command for all churches for all time. Where did Jesus set up the method/format used by the Friends & Workers fellowship?
Where is any virtue (in the Scriptures?) in following a method closely in this day and age to the method that was then??
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