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Post by Annan on Jun 25, 2023 13:14:07 GMT -5
There is another called the Burning Bed . Farrah Fawcett was the women actress . That movie ripped me to the core. Excellent acting. Excellent movie.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2023 13:24:35 GMT -5
But also, can these parents be charged in most states? I wonder what the statute of limitations is on that? Statute of limitations would cover most I would think. Its only some states that still have it for things like this... Canada has NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS , thankfully so we can move forward on all cases that are coming forward .
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Post by mountain on Jun 25, 2023 13:50:30 GMT -5
A big part of the problem is ignorance. Real leadership is called for to educate all of us on child abuse. Even if the workers chose a good book and recommended that all members read it. But also, can these parents be charged in most states? I wonder what the statute of limitations is on that? It depends on whether the State or the country has a law of mandatory reporting and for whom?
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2023 13:58:29 GMT -5
You are indeed correct in what you find is inexcusable. So right indeed. Now what is it that causes presumably otherwise very loving parents to neglect their children in this way? 1) Downright stupidity and lack of parental responsibility? 2) Indoctrination by cultic doctrine? It's one or the other in most cases and I suspect that it is item 2 in most of the most cases. This shows the power of cultic control, even if not intended, but is part of the collateral damage of the controlling mechanics of the Way. I wouldn't call it stupidity and lack of parental responsibility. I would simply call it ignorance and lack of education about CSA. Very responsible parents don't see it coming.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2023 14:05:28 GMT -5
In Canada you can be charged for not keeping your child safe . However ONCE AGAIN AND LAST TIME ! IF WE DID’T SPEAK THERE IS NOTHING A PARENT Could DO ABOUT IT . Their are mandatory reporter’s , such as school , a camp out or whatever They must report or they will be charged . I expect Merlin and Ray are at the top of the list . You don’t have to be a mandatory member . If you have good morals and a conscience YOU SHOULD REPORT IT
Stop defending and putting on the blame on parents only . The worker’s need to keep their junk in their pants ! Most cases that are coming forward are WORKERS ! Not ALL WORKERS . So sick of these offenders being hidden by overseers . Full stop 🛑 Not gonna explain another time . We have no statute of limitations in Canada 🇨🇦
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2023 15:14:52 GMT -5
I strongly recommend you read about the survivors on advocates for the truth on FB ! After that you may get different view . The devious behavior is being done in front of or close to the parents without being seen . Read the LW posts and it will explain how this $hit goes down . If you don’t have coping skills don’t go there . You will see the manipulation of some worker’s . MA & RH belong in jail for covering for over 2 decades . They had LW speaking in meetings no more than a month ago . I had 2 girls , and my granddaughter who all endured some abuse . If anyone touched my great granddaughter , they would not make it to court or jail ……. Jus sayin this ain’t no game .
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Post by mountain on Jun 25, 2023 15:23:03 GMT -5
You are indeed correct in what you find is inexcusable. So right indeed. Now what is it that causes presumably otherwise very loving parents to neglect their children in this way? 1) Downright stupidity and lack of parental responsibility? 2) Indoctrination by cultic doctrine? It's one or the other in most cases and I suspect that it is item 2 in most of the most cases. This shows the power of cultic control, even if not intended, but is part of the collateral damage of the controlling mechanics of the Way. I wouldn't call it stupidity and lack of parental responsibility. I would simply call it ignorance and lack of education about CSA. Very responsible parents don't see it coming. Would ignorance and lack of parental education cause them to turn a blind eye if a stranger committed csa or something similar to one of their children? The toss up is between items 1 & 2. Cultic indoctrination is the only real answer to the circumstances previously outlined.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2023 15:27:35 GMT -5
I wouldn't call it stupidity and lack of parental responsibility. I would simply call it ignorance and lack of education about CSA. Very responsible parents don't see it coming. Would ignorance and lack of parental education cause them to turn a blind eye if a stranger committed csa or something similar to one of their children? The toss up is between items 1 & 2. Cultic indoctrination is the only real answer to the circumstances previously outlined. Because the parents are being groomed as well !
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 25, 2023 15:30:00 GMT -5
You are indeed correct in what you find is inexcusable. So right indeed. Now what is it that causes presumably otherwise very loving parents to neglect their children in this way? 1) Downright stupidity and lack of parental responsibility? 2) Indoctrination by cultic doctrine? It's one or the other in most cases and I suspect that it is item 2 in most of the most cases. This shows the power of cultic control, even if not intended, but is part of the collateral damage of the controlling mechanics of the Way. I wouldn't call it stupidity and lack of parental responsibility. I would simply call it ignorance and lack of education about CSA. Very responsible parents don't see it coming. READ the posts that chinesewhispers is pointing people to. The women know EXACTLY what was going on and who most of the perpetrators were. They are whispering in the convention nurseries and dormitories about who to TRY to avoid and what happened to them. Constant fear and dread is present even among those who were not victims. The cult makes exercises abuse and control mechanisms to trap them and make it seem impossible to escape When backed into a corner and unable to fight or flee your mind just shut down. Even innocent children become literal living sacrifices to your cult overlords who speak for God
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2023 15:36:49 GMT -5
Yes there is definitely pressure from within. That's why I said if they don't have the impact needed for real change then the media is probably needed in the end. Media coverage at least gives the public a heads up that they don't want to join the group or if they do join to be very careful around the workers and other friends. The group tends to give each other complete trust and that allows horrific things to never see the light of day. I don't know if the 60 minutes exposure did anything in Australia since I don't live there. Maybe some here from that country and speak about that. I do know that exposing the RCC did create change and also the Southern Baptist Church and others that got media coverage. Even if it didn't change anything inside the group in Australia, it did expose them to the public so that they know never to join that church. Awareness will prevent some from being a target. Except, the public you mention, would have a hard job proving the evil of sexual abuse does not exist in 'all religions' bar one. Remember Joanna the academic, ( haven't seen her name for ages). Her posts were interesting, most often very assertively drawing attention to 'all religions' in regards to issues. professing.proboards.com/post/1044221/thread Of course it's in all religions. It's in the private sector too. The difference between what happens in religions and the secular world is that religions tend to hide it because it might taint their reputations. Their claims of being 'more holy' gives them more to lose, or so they seem to think. Whereas in the secular world they have no reputation to protect and in fact hiding it and not reporting it would be a lot worse for them. Of course it's a bad look for religions too, but they don't seem to understand that. In the case of the smaller groups, they tend to be more secretive because they are also considering that they need to protect their numbers. The workers have been hiding this for decades and have gotten used to getting away with it. It's been exposed again and again and then it blows over and it's business as usual. If something different isn't attempted this time, it will be exactly the same as all the other times. Joanna did post one short post here about 2 weeks ago. She has always pointed out that all religions are just as bad. But just because they all 'do it', that is not an excuse to not expose it so that changes are made so it doesn't happen with such regularity. I don't think anyone was prepared for what has been exposed. The sheer numbers are something I never dreamed to be happening. Yet, here we are.
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2023 15:44:56 GMT -5
That's not the whole story. These overseers knew and didn't kick the worker out, didn't report them, and literally moved them to a new area and didn't tell the friends that they were putting someone into their area that been accused of sexually abusing a child in another area. You have done this across many posts on here. Trying to take the blame off the workers. Why are you doing that. They literally knowingly moved these guys around and never did anything or were transparent with the friends in the areas they were moved to. They obviously knew it was wrong or they wouldn't have remained silent and moved them away. If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable. And if you've been reading the survivors letters, many of them said that they went to the workers themselves (the older ones) and never told their parents. In fact many parents are just finding out now. So how could they have reported it. I agree with you about parents that knew and didn't report it, are more to blame. There are quite a few letters saying how their family shamed them, didn't believe them and the workers encouraged the parents to not report it. They even excommunicated those who came forward about their abuse and families were encouraged to shun them, and some did. In fact, there have been a couple just recently that have had that happen to them after they came forward about their abuse. That's horrific but it has happened and is happening.
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2023 16:10:13 GMT -5
I wouldn't call it stupidity and lack of parental responsibility. I would simply call it ignorance and lack of education about CSA. Very responsible parents don't see it coming. Would ignorance and lack of parental education cause them to turn a blind eye if a stranger committed csa or something similar to one of their children? The toss up is between items 1 & 2. Cultic indoctrination is the only real answer to the circumstances previously outlined. There have been two incidences just the past week where survivors have come out and told their story and their family decided to take the workers advice and shame them, guilt them, call them troublemakers and shun them from the family. So there you go. I can bet if they had been abused by someone from the 'world' they would be all over that. But because it was the workers they were willing to do the unthinkable. That is indoctrination at the highest level. When you turn your back on your sexually abused child in favor of doing what the workers tell you to do, that's pure evil. And I don't use that word often.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2023 17:25:03 GMT -5
Except, the public you mention, would have a hard job proving the evil of sexual abuse does not exist in 'all religions' bar one. Remember Joanna the academic, ( haven't seen her name for ages). Her posts were interesting, most often very assertively drawing attention to 'all religions' in regards to issues. professing.proboards.com/post/1044221/thread Of course it's in all religions. It's in the private sector too. The difference between what happens in religions and the secular world is that religions tend to hide it because it might taint their reputations. Their claims of being 'more holy' gives them more to lose, or so they seem to think. Whereas in the secular world they have no reputation to protect and in fact hiding it and not reporting it would be a lot worse for them. Of course it's a bad look for religions too, but they don't seem to understand that. In the case of the smaller groups, they tend to be more secretive because they are also considering that they need to protect their numbers. The workers have been hiding this for decades and have gotten used to getting away with it. It's been exposed again and again and then it blows over and it's business as usual. If something different isn't attempted this time, it will be exactly the same as all the other times. Joanna did post one short post here about 2 weeks ago. She has always pointed out that all religions are just as bad. But just because they all 'do it', that is not an excuse to not expose it so that changes are made so it doesn't happen with such regularity. I don't think anyone was prepared for what has been exposed. The sheer numbers are something I never dreamed to be happening. Yet, here we are. Yes you're right re that is no excuse to not work on it. ( Wasn't meaning that) Thats why I wrote a suggestion re being proactive re convention on another thread. I have no idea how many of the church folk are reading here at present. Someone else may be able to hazard a guess. And I don't like using facebook to write.
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2023 17:30:52 GMT -5
Of course it's in all religions. It's in the private sector too. The difference between what happens in religions and the secular world is that religions tend to hide it because it might taint their reputations. Their claims of being 'more holy' gives them more to lose, or so they seem to think. Whereas in the secular world they have no reputation to protect and in fact hiding it and not reporting it would be a lot worse for them. Of course it's a bad look for religions too, but they don't seem to understand that. In the case of the smaller groups, they tend to be more secretive because they are also considering that they need to protect their numbers. The workers have been hiding this for decades and have gotten used to getting away with it. It's been exposed again and again and then it blows over and it's business as usual. If something different isn't attempted this time, it will be exactly the same as all the other times. Joanna did post one short post here about 2 weeks ago. She has always pointed out that all religions are just as bad. But just because they all 'do it', that is not an excuse to not expose it so that changes are made so it doesn't happen with such regularity. I don't think anyone was prepared for what has been exposed. The sheer numbers are something I never dreamed to be happening. Yet, here we are. Yes you're right re that is no excuse to not work on it. ( Wasn't meaning that) Thats why I wrote a suggestion re being proactive re convention on another thread. I have no idea how many of the church folk are reading here at present. Someone else may be able to hazard a guess. And I don't like using facebook to write. I think a lot of professing folk are here posting and reading. I agree they need to be proactive. The town hall with Ray Hoffman needs to be something other overseers do with the friends. Some of the attitude of the workers came through in that town hall. Some of it was not good at all when they were confronted. wingsfortruth.info/2023/06/25/milford-townhall-with-ray-hoffman/comment-page-1/#comment-24806
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2023 22:13:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't call it stupidity and lack of parental responsibility. I would simply call it ignorance and lack of education about CSA. Very responsible parents don't see it coming. Would ignorance and lack of parental education cause them to turn a blind eye if a stranger committed csa or something similar to one of their children? The toss up is between items 1 & 2. Cultic indoctrination is the only real answer to the circumstances previously outlined. Part of the ignorance is that parents haven't expected such evil in relatives, workers or friends.
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Post by mountain on Jun 26, 2023 4:27:57 GMT -5
Would ignorance and lack of parental education cause them to turn a blind eye if a stranger committed csa or something similar to one of their children? The toss up is between items 1 & 2. Cultic indoctrination is the only real answer to the circumstances previously outlined. Part of the ignorance is that parents haven't expected such evil in relatives, workers or friends. There is certainly a large measure of that, which produces the perfect, can do no evil, perspective of workers, etc. Again, all founded on indoctrination.
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Post by Annan on Jun 26, 2023 5:51:45 GMT -5
Would ignorance and lack of parental education cause them to turn a blind eye if a stranger committed csa or something similar to one of their children? The toss up is between items 1 & 2. Cultic indoctrination is the only real answer to the circumstances previously outlined. There have been two incidences just the past week where survivors have come out and told their story and their family decided to take the workers advice and shame them, guilt them, call them troublemakers and shun them from the family. So there you go. I can bet if they had been abused by someone from the 'world' they would be all over that. But because it was the workers they were willing to do the unthinkable. That is indoctrination at the highest level. When you turn your back on your sexually abused child in favor of doing what the workers tell you to do, that's pure evil. And I don't use that word often. Why is it a victim is often seen as bringing shame upon the family or the cult when the shame should be on the perp? Seriously warped mindset. I remember one night giving our dog fresh water. He was tied up outside. I saw a man standing in the yard and screamed. After my dad ran out to see what was up (the man ran off by then), I was chastised for causing trouble. What the heck??? Not blaming this on the cult, but the mindset is the same.
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Post by snow on Jun 26, 2023 16:12:33 GMT -5
There have been two incidences just the past week where survivors have come out and told their story and their family decided to take the workers advice and shame them, guilt them, call them troublemakers and shun them from the family. So there you go. I can bet if they had been abused by someone from the 'world' they would be all over that. But because it was the workers they were willing to do the unthinkable. That is indoctrination at the highest level. When you turn your back on your sexually abused child in favor of doing what the workers tell you to do, that's pure evil. And I don't use that word often. Why is it a victim is often seen as bringing shame upon the family or the cult when the shame should be on the perp? Seriously warped mindset. I remember one night giving our dog fresh water. He was tied up outside. I saw a man standing in the yard and screamed. After my dad ran out to see what was up (the man ran off by then), I was chastised for causing trouble. What the heck??? Not blaming this on the cult, but the mindset is the same. It's beyond me that's for sure. I raised the question about how could a parent listen to the sexual abuse of a child and then obey the workers and guilt, shame and shun that same child. One answer was that some parents don't love unconditionally because God didn't love unconditionally. I agree that some parents do not love their children unconditionally, but I never linked that to the belief that 'well god doesn't love us unconditionally'. I recognize that this is just justifying bad behavior, but really!!! We don't have to love unconditionally because god doesn't?
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Post by bfvernon on Jun 26, 2023 16:52:46 GMT -5
God does love us unconditionally. That’s why He sent His Son to die for us. He died for us while we were dead in sin. That’s unconditional love.
The crooked and bent theology of the 2x2s is sickening.
I suppose the Workers think that God can only love us when we are wearing skirts, hair in a bun, no makeup …. His love is conditional upon that rubbish? I’m astonished that they are so far away from TRUTH.
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Post by snow on Jun 26, 2023 17:21:21 GMT -5
God does love us unconditionally. That’s why He sent His Son to die for us. He died for us while we were dead in sin. That’s unconditional love. The crooked and bent theology of the 2x2s is sickening. I suppose the Workers think that God can only love us when we are wearing skirts, hair in a bun, no makeup …. His love is conditional upon that rubbish? I’m astonished that they are so far away from TRUTH. Given this logic though, no one is going to hell. So I do understand why they do believe that there are conditions they have to fulfill in order to avoid hell. Unconditional love is not torturing someone for eternity for being human.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 26, 2023 17:33:29 GMT -5
God does love us unconditionally. That’s why He sent His Son to die for us. He died for us while we were dead in sin. That’s unconditional love. The crooked and bent theology of the 2x2s is sickening. I suppose the Workers think that God can only love us when we are wearing skirts, hair in a bun, no makeup …. His love is conditional upon that rubbish? I’m astonished that they are so far away from TRUTH. Torturing billions of people eternally with molten sulfur makes God the ultimate predator.. The last thing victims need is Christianity and its monster God.
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Post by bfvernon on Jun 26, 2023 18:04:51 GMT -5
God loves us unconditionally. And He lets us choose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 19:05:07 GMT -5
God's love is unconditional for sure, his forgiveness is not. There is a difference.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 26, 2023 21:17:37 GMT -5
God loves us unconditionally. And He lets us choose. "Worship me or I'll torture you forever" is not loving, and it is not a true choice. It's the language of an abuser. How many rapists have said something similar? "I love you so much" "If you resist me then I'll have to hurt you" People are waking up www.scarymommy.com/christianity-like-leaving-abusive-relationship
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Post by Dan on Jun 26, 2023 21:28:03 GMT -5
God loves us unconditionally. And He lets us choose.
I personally believe everything in the bible is conditional, "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father" (John 14:21). In one respect, God's love is unconditional because its there for the taking, but even John 3:16 is conditional. Salvation is unconditionally offered, but conditionally rendered. Its not God's will "that any should perish" (2 Peter 3:9), but many will. God's love for us is unquestionable, but we must be willing to receive it, that's what's questionable and that's our choice.
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Post by Dan on Jun 26, 2023 21:45:40 GMT -5
God loves us unconditionally. And He lets us choose. "Worship me or I'll torture you forever" is not loving, and it is not a true choice. It's the language of an abuser. How many rapists have said something similar? "I love you so much" "If you resist me then I'll have to hurt you" People are waking up www.scarymommy.com/christianity-like-leaving-abusive-relationship
The Tree of Life is Christ, he is the living water. If your drowning and someone throws you a life preserver, but you refuse to grab it, then who's responsible for your death?
Its polar opposites to compare what Jesus offered to what a rapist demands. Jesus proved his love on Calvary, giving everything and demanding nothing. Your analogy falls apart because rape is not love. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" as opposed to "Let me abuse you or I'll kill you".. There's no upside to the latter!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 23:28:37 GMT -5
The Tree of Life is Christ, he is the living water. If your drowning and someone throws you a life preserver, but you refuse to grab it, then who's responsible for your death?
Its polar opposites to compare what Jesus offered to what a rapist demands. Jesus proved his love on Calvary, giving everything and demanding nothing. Your analogy falls apart because rape is not love. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" as opposed to "Let me abuse you or I'll kill you".. There's no upside to the latter!
Well said Dan....
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Post by snow on Aug 6, 2023 17:47:16 GMT -5
Okay, this thread was started about when is it time to go to the media. A conversation with workers and overseers in Milltown really hit home for me. Basically an overseer was asked how many signatures it would take before they would step down. Apparently there were 800 signatures and no response and one worker changed their email address. The following is the conversation. I'm beginning to think that the only way to get the attention of these overseers that won't step down when that many friends have asked them to is to bring a class action suit against them. Next page where he says literally if you don't want to come to our meetings you can leave because until God tells me to step down I'm not going to.
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