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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 23, 2023 16:51:06 GMT -5
Just a question.When children were being abused by workers, why were the parents not going to the law and making this public. I am not excusing the CSA behavior at all, it is disgusting, but the parents must bear some of the blame. "We will tell the workers and they have to do something but we are not prepared to stick our necks out" It was THEIR kids that were effected. Why expect the workers to do what they wouldn't do. I know it wasn't always that simple but in some cases the parents were more responsible for carpet sweeping than the workers!! I agree that the parents should have been reporting it and not listening to the workers when they told them not too. But that is part of the system that has groomed the parents to hold the workers as speaking straight from God. In many ways these parents are victims of the system they grew up in also. I'm not condoning their silence, but I do see how it happened. They are adults that should know right from wrong and when the workers told them not to report they should have done so anyway. I can't fathom how any parent would not, but then I'm not a 2x2 that worships the workers. Also, many of the parents never knew that their children had been abused. It's coming out now, years later. Many when telling their story were told my their abuser not to tell anyone or something would happen to their parents. Children believe that kind of thing. Many children don't even know what has happened to them so don't tell until they are older and realize what happened to them was wrong. It just felt wrong but they didn't have the vocabulary to explain why it felt wrong. Kids also don't think they will be believed over a trusted adult. We knew quite young that our parents believed the workers and it was our word against theirs. Do you know that some of the survivors today, that are now adults, are telling their stories since the discovery of Dean Bruer's crimes, and their families are shaming them, guilting them, and then shunning them. And, the workers are telling these parents to do this. This is still happening even with all that is being uncovered. I will quote below what Lauryn Roh has posted on Advocates for truth about what is happening to some that are now telling their story. In the past twelve hours, two survivors have been harassed, interrogated, belittled, ostracized, gaslit, and ex-communicated by their families for speaking to their families and going public with their abuse allegations and horrific experiences. In addition, Overseers and Workers have called family members and encouraged them to harass their survivor family members to retract their allegations. I BEG of each of you to believe each survivors experience and to fight for them. Do not tone police, condemn, interrogate, belittle, or do anything other than believe and support each survivor. If you hear of this happening, advocate for the survivors. Call your Overseers, Workers, and do not allow these actions to happen. As this progresses, the magnitude and intertwined abuse of this all is coming to light. Be part of the healing for survivors and uphold each other to the same. 🤍
TO QUOTE LAUREN AND SHERI , and CYNTHIA ….. To quote Lauren and Sheri In the past twelve hours, two survivors have been harassed, interrogated, belittled, ostracized, gaslit, and ex-communicated by their families for speaking to their families and going public with their abuse allegations and horrific experiences. In addition, Overseers and Workers have called family members and encouraged them to harass their survivor family members to retract their allegations. I BEG of each of you to believe each survivors experience and to fight for them. Do not tone police, condemn, interrogate, belittle, or do anything other than believe and support each survivor. If you hear of this happening, advocate for the survivors. Call your Overseers, Workers, and do not allow these actions to happen. As this progresses, the magnitude and intertwined abuse of this all is coming to light. Be part of the healing for survivors and uphold each other to the same. 🤍 This is exactly what happens !!!! I did not say anything because it meant I was going to hell . We were told not to speak of it . At age 2 I could not verbalize it . I was afraid I would not be believed . I never said a thing till age 13 after the RAPE ! I You know what that sick 19 year old said , oh my brother will enjoy you , what a sick MF . I spoke and I was excommunicated by the overseer . That overseer was banished from our home . Even my grandmother whom had professed for 55 years never spoke to him again . But I was acting out and my parents knew something was wrong . Bob W confirmed that when my name was spoken there was a long silence unsure how to answer . Not one knew what was happening they suspected but didn’t speak , because that may have put them in jeopardy as well . . However I did things , such as punching my offending worker in the face after he reached for me after my grandpa’s funeral . I also beat my brother every time I had a chance . My father didn’t know till I was 40 about my brother . When we were on holidays and my brother did something and I hit him and broke the trailer door when I started beating him up . My dad told me , you can’t beat him up anymore because he was becoming a young man !!! I broke noses , I left claw marks , I kicked and punched my abusers to get them to stop 🛑 My parents knew something was terribly wrong . I am not sure what those young men told people when they had a black eye or broken nose . But they did walk away with visible injuries . When I finally broke my father loaded his gun and went hunting for the MAN who raped me . He had scuttled back to New Brunswick . In hind sight I am glad I was tossed out because I was no longer S/A’D . I was safer outside of the truth . My father begged me many times to forgive him . To which I said I didn’t tell you so how could you know . But my actions absolutely showed something was wrong . I have no relationship with my brother , especially after mom passed away . I will never see him or talk to him again . He is blocked from my life as is my last daughter . That is a different nightmare . So that’s why victims don’t speak . 1 out of 5 rapes are reported , because we get portrayed as being willing or didn’t yell loud enough . That’s it !! There was a lady posting on here but was hiding it from her husband because she to got called all the nasty things spoken to her .
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 23, 2023 16:51:30 GMT -5
Agree, even though workers are also victims, once you take on that position of power over others you are now culpable. There are things you become more aware of and that knowledge and position makes you more responsible to act. Yep. For the workers who were drawn to power, or, who at least kind of relished it when they ended up with it, I realize that many of them did not realize the responsibility that came with that power. I probably tend to be more forgiving towards the Magical Merlin's of this world than many are here. As far as the Dale Schultz's are concerned, I am still processing, and I don't think I will be as nearly forgiving. But having been in and left the work I also know how long it takes to get your mind back. In many respects you cannot see or understand what has happened to you until after you leave and get over all the mental and emotional upheaval and trauma of that profoundly difficult act of leaving. It is a cult in that respect as well…how hard it is to leave. I look back at what I accepted as well, something I just had to accept, and I wonder why didn’t I not speak up, scream, but I felt so had no ability to do that. I was witness to someone who was in abusive marriage, and I saw what a long and difficult a road it was until she "got her mind back". I still remember the moment when she stood up for herself over some inconsequential thing, and I felt really happy, because I knew that the person I had known before was truly back! I have never been one to get too involved in discussions of whether 2X2ism was a cult or not, because some of the "cult" definitions are patently absurd. But, I always personally felt that being in the work probably demanded a level of self abnegation that would probably qualify as a cult, even though just being a member probably did not. That being said, I do know "the mental and emotional upheaval and trauma of that profoundly difficult act of leaving". I have had a lot of accomplishments in my life, but I am probably, to this day, most singularly proud that I did manage to leave. Most decisions in life come with qualified upsides and downsides, but, nearly 30 years later, I have never regretted my decision to leave 2X2ism for a single moment. It was worth it. Every bit of it, it was worth it.
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Post by fixit on Jun 23, 2023 18:20:15 GMT -5
I thoroughly recommend people watch the Netflix "Spotlight" which is where the Spotlight investigative group within the Boston Globe investigate, uncover and report hundreds of CSA cases within the Catholic Church, and the system designed to move perpetrators around, payoff victims, and protect the church. While it's a long watch, it is very close to home, so as to speak. It's a classic that everyone should watch.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 23, 2023 19:17:34 GMT -5
Ok if that is the case (not that I agree with that excuse) then the workers have been brainwashed and afraid too- remember they belong to the same church! Number 1 person responsibile for a child is their parents. No one should want a child protected more than their parents. For the workers to know about a C S abuser in their ranks, generally someone had to tell them, usually the parents. No excuse!Many will be feeling guilty that they didn't do something at the time (for whatever reason)and now - relief- we can put all the blame on the workers that didn't report on our report!!! It's been a longstanding belief among the friends (and workers too for sure) that the friends do NOT report each other to the law. I had one man explain to me that he should not report his brother for cheating his mother out of her home, because they were all professing. I know a worker who told the mother of a 14 year old boy that she should not report the person who ha sexually molested the boy, because the BOY would end up with a record. (I have reason to believe that it was a worker who molested the kid, but the mother wouldn't name him). This is chaos. But on the other hand, I know an overseer who went to the police to see if they had charged one of the friends with something, and because they said yes, they went to the man and told him not to take part in meetings any more. Whatever. Just sickening however status quo for overseers !
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 23, 2023 19:19:02 GMT -5
I thoroughly recommend people watch the Netflix "Spotlight" which is where the Spotlight investigative group within the Boston Globe investigate, uncover and report hundreds of CSA cases within the Catholic Church, and the system designed to move perpetrators around, payoff victims, and protect the church. While it's a long watch, it is very close to home, so as to speak. It's a classic that everyone should watch. There is another called the Burning Bed . Farrah Fawcett was the women actress .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 20:58:01 GMT -5
It's a classic that everyone should watch. There is another called the Burning Bed . Farrah Fawcett was the women actress . BRUTAL movie...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 24, 2023 1:16:51 GMT -5
Ok if that is the case (not that I agree with that excuse) then the workers have been brainwashed and afraid too- remember they belong to the same church! Number 1 person responsibile for a child is their parents. No one should want a child protected more than their parents. For the workers to know about a C S abuser in their ranks, generally someone had to tell them, usually the parents. No excuse!Many will be feeling guilty that they didn't do something at the time (for whatever reason)and now - relief- we can put all the blame on the workers that didn't report on our report!!! [br Of course all workers are brainwashed. I was a worker and I was brainwashed. Unable to think. Completely silenced. Lost all sense of my own identity or importance as an individual having any agency. You think it is all a part of serving god, the greater good. You lose all perspective of right and wrong in terms of how anyone outside in the world sees it. You can’t trust the ‘world’ or any so called experts in the world. That is why overseers have been so slow to consult and listen to experts re csa and sa. The workers aren’t the enemy per se. They were children of converts or converts from the outside. All are victims in that sense. Are you an ex? I know a few former Catholics, one of them a worker, who are absolute worker worshipers. Like the workers are the priests, now.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 24, 2023 1:25:36 GMT -5
Agree, even though workers are also victims, once you take on that position of power over others you are now culpable. There are things you become more aware of and that knowledge and position makes you more responsible to act. But having been in and left the work I also know how long it takes to get your mind back. In many respects you cannot see or understand what has happened to you until after you leave and get over all the mental and emotional upheaval and trauma of that profoundly difficult act of leaving. It is a cult in that respect as well…how hard it is to leave. I look back at what I accepted as well, something I just had to accept, and I wonder why didn’t I not speak up, scream, but I felt so had no ability to do that. Yes - those who were abused and didn't know it (in other words, brainwashed), normally don't change their mind when they grow up. Then, what happens, is that those who are so inclined will figure out how "rewarding" it is to "reinforce" the techniques of "caring for others".
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 24, 2023 4:59:05 GMT -5
I am not sure what the right thing to do, going forward, is.
Going to the media get a certain amount of exposure, but not to the people that need to see it, necessarily. The 60 Minutes in Australia had some success, but because a large number of the friends did not have the means, ability, willingness or even the awareness of it, they were none the wiser. But better to have done it, than not done so, because, obviously some good has come of it.
Did it prevent others from committing the same crimes in other countries? Obviously not.
From a personal perspective, I don't seek retribution against the workers per se. There are some very kind, devout and sincere folk among them. There does need to be some systemic changes though, otherwise the system will continue to enable previous behavioural patterns that have got things to where they are now.
However, for the perpetrators, the groomers, the enablers and those that hide the wrongs, I want justice for the victims, and I want them, (the groomers, perps etc) to be ejected from the work.
Maybe continued media exposure will eventually force change, just as the Boston Globe's Spotlight program achieved with the Catholic Diocese in the Boston area, and eventually reached right around the world, including our own country.
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Post by getreal on Jun 24, 2023 9:38:38 GMT -5
I am not sure what the right thing to do, going forward, is. Going to the media get a certain amount of exposure, but not to the people that need to see it, necessarily. The 60 Minutes in Australia had some success, but because a large number of the friends did not have the means, ability, willingness or even the awareness of it, they were none the wiser. But better to have done it, than not done so, because, obviously some good has come of it. Did it prevent others from committing the same crimes in other countries? Obviously not. From a personal perspective, I don't seek retribution against the workers per se. There are some very kind, devout and sincere folk among them. There does need to be some systemic changes though, otherwise the system will continue to enable previous behavioural patterns that have got things to where they are now. However, for the perpetrators, the groomers, the enablers and those that hide the wrongs, I want justice for the victims, and I want them, (the groomers, perps etc) to be ejected from the work. Maybe continued media exposure will eventually force change, just as the Boston Globe's Spotlight program achieved with the Catholic Diocese in the Boston area, and eventually reached right around the world, including our own country. An assumption is being made here that the media would be interested. I suspect not. This is a small, unknown, otherwise pretty uninteresting on the fringe church which cannot be compared to the interest by the public in a large well know Catholic Church. Sadly sexual abuse is not an uncommon story at all. Why would the media care, to be honest. It would be a small page 3 story. Now if it was a small cult holed up in a compound with guns and child abuse that would have press all over it. As big a story as it is to those who are members and exes it is small potatoes to the world at large. The hard truth I am afraid.
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Post by snow on Jun 24, 2023 11:59:22 GMT -5
I have thought about the families too. Unfortunately families of criminals have had to face this all the time. 2x2's aren't any different in that light. And, listening to family members on some sites I'm a part of, they want justice as much as anyone. Personally I don't want the group taken down. But I do think that the media will likely have to be an option at some point IF the ones in charge are seen to be just lying low waiting for it all to blow over. We are seeing that happening in some areas. Sometimes it takes exposure to force those in charge to make changes. If the law stepping in and charging some of those who moved workers around along with those workers that did the actual CSA then you might see changes within that are sufficient. But if that doesn't happen, the media is probably needed in the end. Thanks Snow. As with lots of decisions we make in life, its about 'intent' isn't it? I'm not so sure there is evidence to prove going to the media in Australia achieved a change for the better. Personally, I support the Professionals working on trying to eliminate this evil, plus those within the church who are being proactive in present time. Yes, there undoubtedly are die -hards ( and I fully understand that can create anger) but with others, there appears pressure from within the camp. Yes there is definitely pressure from within. That's why I said if they don't have the impact needed for real change then the media is probably needed in the end. Media coverage at least gives the public a heads up that they don't want to join the group or if they do join to be very careful around the workers and other friends. The group tends to give each other complete trust and that allows horrific things to never see the light of day. I don't know if the 60 minutes exposure did anything in Australia since I don't live there. Maybe some here from that country and speak about that. I do know that exposing the RCC did create change and also the Southern Baptist Church and others that got media coverage. Even if it didn't change anything inside the group in Australia, it did expose them to the public so that they know never to join that church. Awareness will prevent some from being a target.
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Post by snow on Jun 24, 2023 12:04:23 GMT -5
I am not sure what the right thing to do, going forward, is. Going to the media get a certain amount of exposure, but not to the people that need to see it, necessarily. The 60 Minutes in Australia had some success, but because a large number of the friends did not have the means, ability, willingness or even the awareness of it, they were none the wiser. But better to have done it, than not done so, because, obviously some good has come of it. Did it prevent others from committing the same crimes in other countries? Obviously not. From a personal perspective, I don't seek retribution against the workers per se. There are some very kind, devout and sincere folk among them. There does need to be some systemic changes though, otherwise the system will continue to enable previous behavioural patterns that have got things to where they are now. However, for the perpetrators, the groomers, the enablers and those that hide the wrongs, I want justice for the victims, and I want them, (the groomers, perps etc) to be ejected from the work. Maybe continued media exposure will eventually force change, just as the Boston Globe's Spotlight program achieved with the Catholic Diocese in the Boston area, and eventually reached right around the world, including our own country. An assumption is being made here that the media would be interested. I suspect not. This is a small, unknown, otherwise pretty uninteresting on the fringe church which cannot be compared to the interest by the public in a large well know Catholic Church. Sadly sexual abuse is not an uncommon story at all. Why would the media care, to be honest. It would be a small page 3 story. Now if it was a small cult holed up in a compound with guns and child abuse that would have press all over it. As big a story as it is to those who are members and exes it is small potatoes to the world at large. The hard truth I am afraid. You do have a point. And the overseers are counting on that being true. This will blow over and they can continue doing what they do because the friends will give them the power over them again. But it will make the public aware that this group exists and if you join it maybe watch your children? I know that it just makes sense for parents to do that automatically, but the group has such a record of absolute trust in the workers and friends that these things happen and never see the light of day. Don't report your 'brother/sister'.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 24, 2023 15:25:49 GMT -5
I am not sure what the right thing to do, going forward, is. Going to the media get a certain amount of exposure, but not to the people that need to see it, necessarily. The 60 Minutes in Australia had some success, but because a large number of the friends did not have the means, ability, willingness or even the awareness of it, they were none the wiser. But better to have done it, than not done so, because, obviously some good has come of it. Did it prevent others from committing the same crimes in other countries? Obviously not. From a personal perspective, I don't seek retribution against the workers per se. There are some very kind, devout and sincere folk among them. There does need to be some systemic changes though, otherwise the system will continue to enable previous behavioural patterns that have got things to where they are now. However, for the perpetrators, the groomers, the enablers and those that hide the wrongs, I want justice for the victims, and I want them, (the groomers, perps etc) to be ejected from the work. Maybe continued media exposure will eventually force change, just as the Boston Globe's Spotlight program achieved with the Catholic Diocese in the Boston area, and eventually reached right around the world, including our own country. An assumption is being made here that the media would be interested. I suspect not. This is a small, unknown, otherwise pretty uninteresting on the fringe church which cannot be compared to the interest by the public in a large well know Catholic Church. Sadly sexual abuse is not an uncommon story at all. Why would the media care, to be honest. It would be a small page 3 story. Now if it was a small cult holed up in a compound with guns and child abuse that would have press all over it. As big a story as it is to those who are members and exes it is small potatoes to the world at large. The hard truth I am afraid. In NZ, the media is very interested. Gloriavale, Exclusive Brethren feature often, and in September last year the 2*2 church featured in nationwide media print and online publication (Stuff) regarding the church’s attitude to the LGBT community. Subject was Clayton Drain. Down here, church scandal sells.
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Post by getreal on Jun 24, 2023 15:43:32 GMT -5
An assumption is being made here that the media would be interested. I suspect not. This is a small, unknown, otherwise pretty uninteresting on the fringe church which cannot be compared to the interest by the public in a large well know Catholic Church. Sadly sexual abuse is not an uncommon story at all. Why would the media care, to be honest. It would be a small page 3 story. Now if it was a small cult holed up in a compound with guns and child abuse that would have press all over it. As big a story as it is to those who are members and exes it is small potatoes to the world at large. The hard truth I am afraid. In NZ, the media is very interested. Gloriavale, Exclusive Brethren feature often, and in September last year the 2*2 church featured in nationwide media print and online publication (Stuff) regarding the church’s attitude to the LGBT community. Subject was Clayton Drain. Down here, church scandal sells. Yes, I know but the US is very different in the sense of the magnitude of bad news and general chaos everyday. I just don’t think this little story has a chance accept maybe in very local news. Canada maybe. And if so they might include the usa in their coverage. Maybe.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 24, 2023 16:26:00 GMT -5
In NZ, the media is very interested. Gloriavale, Exclusive Brethren feature often, and in September last year the 2*2 church featured in nationwide media print and online publication (Stuff) regarding the church’s attitude to the LGBT community. Subject was Clayton Drain. Down here, church scandal sells. Yes, I know but the US is very different in the sense of the magnitude of bad news and general chaos everyday. I just don’t think this little story has a chance accept maybe in very local news. Canada maybe. And if so they might include the usa in their coverage. Maybe. I think legacy media has a very small reach these days. Some of the alternative media has a larger reach than any cable show (the best were probably ~ 3+ million). Joe Rogan probably has 11 - 13 million viewers per episode. Tucker Carlson on Twitter has upper end estimates of 90 million plus (for sources trying to amplify) and lower end estimates of 20 million (sources trying to diminish). Wherever the truth lies, that's still a lot of eyes. Still, it is unlikely that any media coverage is going to rescue anyone or anything. I've just spent a while reading the Leslie White thread on wingsfortruth.info, after the heads up from 1chinesewhispers. Two things are uppermost in my mind after reading this: 1) The "Shiny Happy People" Series on Amazon, where one of the people who grew up under the influence of the IBLP says: "We had this power the entire time over the people who were hurting us. It turns out, as much as they tried to control us, we were ultimately what they most feared, and all we had to do was talk."2) Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." I think the most effective thing here is just ordinary people having the courage to talk. The internet, these days, can capture the voice of an individual and it somehow is forever read into the Akashic records (in whatever form these may exist) in a very public/visible sense. The most powerful thing is just for people to speak the Truth, be willing for anything, and see how it all turns out.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 24, 2023 16:59:11 GMT -5
The only reply I have is , I am not the one making the decision about going to the news , thankfully . However I fully understand that the police and detectives think this may help locally . The problem in Calgary and near by towns , are that people are reporting to police , but will not do a statement where they have to sign their name . They understand that . It’s unfortunate that they fear what may happen to them if some (bad) workers get mad , and they start to take away their meeting in their home or tell them they can no longer attend . It’s like watching the Alberta problem again . The friends are well aware of what could happen if they speak . Sadly 😢
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Post by guest8 on Jun 24, 2023 21:27:16 GMT -5
Thanks Snow. As with lots of decisions we make in life, its about 'intent' isn't it? I'm not so sure there is evidence to prove going to the media in Australia achieved a change for the better. Personally, I support the Professionals working on trying to eliminate this evil, plus those within the church who are being proactive in present time. Yes, there undoubtedly are die -hards ( and I fully understand that can create anger) but with others, there appears pressure from within the camp. Yes there is definitely pressure from within. That's why I said if they don't have the impact needed for real change then the media is probably needed in the end. Media coverage at least gives the public a heads up that they don't want to join the group or if they do join to be very careful around the workers and other friends. The group tends to give each other complete trust and that allows horrific things to never see the light of day. I don't know if the 60 minutes exposure did anything in Australia since I don't live there. Maybe some here from that country and speak about that. I do know that exposing the RCC did create change and also the Southern Baptist Church and others that got media coverage. Even if it didn't change anything inside the group in Australia, it did expose them to the public so that they know never to join that church. Awareness will prevent some from being a target. Except, the public you mention, would have a hard job proving the evil of sexual abuse does not exist in 'all religions' bar one. Remember Joanna the academic, ( haven't seen her name for ages). Her posts were interesting, most often very assertively drawing attention to 'all religions' in regards to issues. professing.proboards.com/post/1044221/thread
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meg1
Junior Member
Posts: 146
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Post by meg1 on Jun 25, 2023 0:59:15 GMT -5
The only reply I have is , I am not the one making the decision about going to the news , thankfully . However I fully understand that the police and detectives think this may help locally . The problem in Calgary and near by towns , are that people are reporting to police , but will not do a statement where they have to sign their name . They understand that . It’s unfortunate that they fear what may happen to them if some (bad) workers get mad , and they start to take away their meeting in their home or tell them they can no longer attend . It’s like watching the Alberta problem again . The friends are well aware of what could happen if they speak . Sadly 😢 This makes me so furious. Maybe its time to have a group of friends from across the border flood Didsbury Convention Testimony time with calls for proper support of reporting by victims and zero tolerance measures that must be implemented.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2023 1:22:05 GMT -5
The only reply I have is , I am not the one making the decision about going to the news , thankfully . However I fully understand that the police and detectives think this may help locally . The problem in Calgary and near by towns , are that people are reporting to police , but will not do a statement where they have to sign their name . They understand that . It’s unfortunate that they fear what may happen to them if some (bad) workers get mad , and they start to take away their meeting in their home or tell them they can no longer attend . It’s like watching the Alberta problem again . The friends are well aware of what could happen if they speak . Sadly 😢 This makes me so furious. Maybe its time to have a group of friends from across the border flood Didsbury Convention Testimony time with calls for proper support of reporting by victims and zero tolerance measures that must be implemented. Yes, at this stage of the journey, there is a need to be proactive? I'm also thinking, if 5 strong professing folk got together and agreed to get up at testimony time one after the other, I feel sure a 6th person would get up, then a 7th and so on. There is enough anger, sadness and disillusionment abounding at present, I'm sure 'the emotion of it all' would take over. For those of you on here that are professing, I say DO IT. Pour out your soul, be true to yourself. The only real opportunity collectively you have. Grasp it now at your up and coming conventions. No more pussyfooting. Get the power going from within your fellowship. Then it may be heard " the people have spoken".
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janj
Senior Member
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Post by janj on Jun 25, 2023 4:42:33 GMT -5
Ok if that is the case (not that I agree with that excuse) then the workers have been brainwashed and afraid too- remember they belong to the same church! Number 1 person responsible for a child is their parents. No one should want a child protected more than their parents. For the workers to know about a C S abuser in their ranks, generally someone had to tell them, usually the parents. No excuse!Many will be feeling guilty that they didn't do something at the time (for whatever reason)and now - relief- we can put all the blame on the workers that didn't report on our report!!! That's not the whole story. These overseers knew and didn't kick the worker out, didn't report them, and literally moved them to a new area and didn't tell the friends that they were putting someone into their area that been accused of sexually abusing a child in another area. You have done this across many posts on here. Trying to take the blame off the workers. Why are you doing that. They literally knowingly moved these guys around and never did anything or were transparent with the friends in the areas they were moved to. They obviously knew it was wrong or they wouldn't have remained silent and moved them away. If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable.
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2023 5:52:08 GMT -5
That's not the whole story. These overseers knew and didn't kick the worker out, didn't report them, and literally moved them to a new area and didn't tell the friends that they were putting someone into their area that been accused of sexually abusing a child in another area. You have done this across many posts on here. Trying to take the blame off the workers. Why are you doing that. They literally knowingly moved these guys around and never did anything or were transparent with the friends in the areas they were moved to. They obviously knew it was wrong or they wouldn't have remained silent and moved them away. If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable. A big part of the problem is ignorance. Real leadership is called for to educate all of us on child abuse. Even if the workers chose a good book and recommended that all members read it.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2023 6:43:23 GMT -5
The only reply I have is , I am not the one making the decision about going to the news , thankfully . However I fully understand that the police and detectives think this may help locally . The problem in Calgary and near by towns , are that people are reporting to police , but will not do a statement where they have to sign their name . They understand that . It’s unfortunate that they fear what may happen to them if some (bad) workers get mad , and they start to take away their meeting in their home or tell them they can no longer attend . It’s like watching the Alberta problem again . The friends are well aware of what could happen if they speak . Sadly 😢 This makes me so furious. Maybe its time to have a group of friends from across the border flood Didsbury Convention Testimony time with calls for proper support of reporting by victims and zero tolerance measures that must be implemented. I love your idea 💞 RCMP in Didsbury are aware and have the dates . My team may join them on July 9 .
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Post by haggard on Jun 25, 2023 7:02:48 GMT -5
That's not the whole story. These overseers knew and didn't kick the worker out, didn't report them, and literally moved them to a new area and didn't tell the friends that they were putting someone into their area that been accused of sexually abusing a child in another area. You have done this across many posts on here. Trying to take the blame off the workers. Why are you doing that. They literally knowingly moved these guys around and never did anything or were transparent with the friends in the areas they were moved to. They obviously knew it was wrong or they wouldn't have remained silent and moved them away. If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable.
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Post by verna on Jun 25, 2023 10:40:33 GMT -5
That's not the whole story. These overseers knew and didn't kick the worker out, didn't report them, and literally moved them to a new area and didn't tell the friends that they were putting someone into their area that been accused of sexually abusing a child in another area. You have done this across many posts on here. Trying to take the blame off the workers. Why are you doing that. They literally knowingly moved these guys around and never did anything or were transparent with the friends in the areas they were moved to. They obviously knew it was wrong or they wouldn't have remained silent and moved them away. If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable. You can tell the amount of fear involved if parents do not feel able to protect their children. The fear of hell/loss of salvation is off the charts. It is very sad. But the example was set by Abraham. Willing to sacrifice his son for the good of the kingdom/ to show loyalty to god. Go figure.
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Post by mountain on Jun 25, 2023 12:02:24 GMT -5
If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable.
You are indeed correct in what you find is inexcusable. So right indeed. Now what is it that causes presumably otherwise very loving parents to neglect their children in this way? 1) Downright stupidity and lack of parental responsibility? 2) Indoctrination by cultic doctrine? It's one or the other in most cases and I suspect that it is item 2 in most of the most cases. This shows the power of cultic control, even if not intended, but is part of the collateral damage of the controlling mechanics of the Way.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2023 12:19:00 GMT -5
Number 2 all the way ! As a 2 year old , dealing with a worker and a great uncle I could not verbalize . But when hoisted on to 1 of their knees , I would scream bloody . My father would swoop me into his arms when ever this happened . I did finally speak at 13 years old What did I get I got excommunicated . Did my parents do anything , yes my father went looking for that S. O. B with a loaded gun . We are afraid to tell , we think we will not be believed . In my case the offending man was spared . I supposedly lured him . For the next month my mom was checking to see if I was pregnant . It was a nightmare . Parents are fearful as well over what will happen . Many people worship the WORKER’Z . You don’t need to have the worker’s to have a relationship with God or creator which you choose . Can’t spell it out any clearer . However the worker the put me out was banned from our home . My father showed a few workers they were not allowed in HIS HOME ! In hindsight is was the best move , because I was not sexually abused for many years . My father was an elder with Sunday mornings meetings . I had get up and sit with the friends . But I left home at 14 years old because of my dad’s temper . My mom and grandma told him they would not speak to him till I was back home . The second time was when I was 16 and it was a very very serious beating . Actually on the last beating my tip of my little finger was sliced off . It was my brother who took me to hospital . I had stood in front of my dad and let the blood just drip on the floor . That the last time he ever hurt me . I forgive as he was brought up in a house of abuse . I was a very difficult child .
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Post by getreal on Jun 25, 2023 12:34:20 GMT -5
If you had read what I had written in previous posts, you would know that there is no way I am trying to take the blame off the workers, what has happened is inexcusable. What I am saying is that there are many friends that must take responsibility for also knowing about abuse and not reporting it. Often it involved their own children yet they were not prepared to stick their necks out. In my view that is also inexcusable. A big part of the problem is ignorance. Real leadership is called for to educate all of us on child abuse. Even if the workers chose a good book and recommended that all members read it. But also, can these parents be charged in most states? I wonder what the statute of limitations is on that?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 13:10:34 GMT -5
A big part of the problem is ignorance. Real leadership is called for to educate all of us on child abuse. Even if the workers chose a good book and recommended that all members read it. But also, can these parents be charged in most states? I wonder what the statute of limitations is on that? Statute of limitations would cover most I would think. Its only some states that still have it for things like this...
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