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Post by snow on Jan 23, 2020 17:10:11 GMT -5
You are two grounded, intelligent people. Hard to have sweet compassion for a lot of the stuff on here. Snow, I enjoy your posts immensely. They are always thought provoking. Three cheers for Snow. Hip hip hooray.!! I don't place much value on theory, I look for fruit. In that sense, Snow seems more "Christian" than the people who condemn her. It makes me sad that I offend people. I know realistically you can't please everyone, but being offensive is still something try not to do. Maybe it's time for me to go again. Give people a break. I do that every once in awhile when it seems as though I'm losing my perspective. I do it for that very reason, that I might be getting too offensive and I just don't want that to be the way it is.
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Post by snow on Jan 23, 2020 17:11:03 GMT -5
Trouble is he was quite convinced he was just following what the Holy spirit was telling him, like so many others here claim to be doing. Trouble is the holy spirit apparently isn't too consistent and seems to tell everyone something just a tad different. So confusing... Pretty simple really. Love your lord, Love your Neighbor, Love your Enemies. Anything else is religion. Well I agree with the love part. It's important.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 17:36:56 GMT -5
So be it, but watching them week after week after month after month after year after year, usnt it about time to get judgmental. It pathetic they aren’t taught better. And if they were, then it’s pathetic that it’s that difficult for them to follow teachings. If you're judging these young people week after week after month after month after year after year that is not helping. Authentic Christianity is not about learning theological theory. It's about having the spirit of Christ in your heart. Authentic Christian fellowship is not about Bible-bashing others to "follow teachings". It's about sharing the love of God that is in our hearts. If you're worried about young people flicking through their Bible for something to say, encourage them to speak from their heart instead. I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day; I'd rather one should walk with me than merely tell the way. The eye is a better pupil, more willing than the ear; Fine counsel is confusing, but example is always clear, And the best of all the preachers are the men who live their creeds, For to see a good put in action is what everybody needs. I can soon learn how to do it if you will let me see it done; I can watch your hand in action, but your tongue too fast may run. And the lectures you deliver may be very wise and true, But I'd rather get my lesson by observing what you do. For I may misunderstand you and the high advice you give, But there is no misunderstanding how you act and how you live. When I see a deed of kindness, I am eager to be kind. When a weaker brother stumbles, and a strong man stands behind Just to see if he can help him, then the wish grows strong in me To become as big and thoughtful as I know that friend to be. And all travelers can witness that the best of guides today Is not the one who tells them, but the one who shows the way. One good man teaches many; men believe what they behold; One deed of kindness noted is worth forty that are told. Who stands with men of honor learns to hold his honor dear, For right living speaks a language which to everyone is clear. Though an able speaker charms me with his eloquence, I say, I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day. Fix it, I did try to help them by saying in my own testimonies that what I’d read the last week or what somebody else had said a week or two before had caused me to read further for the past week or weeks. Others in the meetings did the same thing, thinking to inform them to be reading, meditating in the quiet at home. These young folks very seldom said anything about what they heard in other meetings or conventions other then to say then enjoyed being at convention or saying they enjoyed what others spoke about. But NEVER repeated anything they enjoyed. IWAS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED THIS. But we never reported those youngsters to their parents or workers. And the worst part there were some who went in the work later and didn’t stay in the work and certainly didn’t stay Christianized. I’ve felt bad ever since because someone didn’t speak directly to them and teach them how to seek to feed themselves first.
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Post by fixit on Jan 23, 2020 17:38:32 GMT -5
I don't place much value on theory, I look for fruit. In that sense, Snow seems more "Christian" than the people who condemn her. It makes me sad that I offend people. I know realistically you can't please everyone, but being offensive is still something try not to do. Maybe it's time for me to go again. Give people a break. I do that every once in awhile when it seems as though I'm losing my perspective. I do it for that very reason, that I might be getting too offensive and I just don't want that to be the way it is. TMB would be the poorer without our resident Christian Atheist.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 17:38:39 GMT -5
I didn’t say he wasn’t. Except he thinks everybody that professes gets the Holy Spirit but they don’t. Even in Acts we read about that. There are many people go on will power only. They are will worshippers. It doesn’t reach their spirit. So they don’t worship in spirit and in truth. And note I’m not naming anyone. I don’t always know either until it proves out. Paul spoke about will worshipping and he said there’s a wisdom in it. But it’s only man’s wisdom. *** I didn't say everyone who professes get the Spirit. We know from Jesus teachings about the tares vs the wheat; the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins; the goats and the sheep. Not every professing person has the Holy Spirit. Jesus said YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT! I’m sorry, Nathan. But you’d argued one time that everybody got the Holy Spirit when the first professed. I thought you were of the same thought.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 17:53:35 GMT -5
Fix it, Snow has lost a lot of her sweet compassion. Ever since before Christmas there’s been a drastic change in her tenor. I don’t like it, Bob is another that’s taken on the hard bite of the atheists. I don’t think they’re trying to figure anything out for they think they’ve already got it figured out and are so wise in that. They’re portraying omnipotence in their wisdom. Exactly how have I changed STR. I've always questioned on here and stated what I believed. What is different? I still care about everyone the same as ever, I know that. You kept saying I called Christians psychotic when I didn't. So maybe it's you that's changed and started to be more easily offended and misinterpreting things others say on here. Because I tried to tell you over and over that I never said any such thing, even quoted what I said a couple of times and you still persisted with accusing me of calling Christians psychotic. I haven't changed. And I don't see Bob as having changed either. I do care and I don't set out to offend. In fact I try hard not to in my wording. But I don't know how to disagree without you taking offense. I just don't know why you seem to be so quick to think I am talking down to you when all I'm doing is what I've always done on here. Maybe others can tell me if they see a difference in me since Christmas? It would be interesting for me to know. In the last two months, everytime Paul is brought up in simeone’s post, you’ve been overly quick to negate anything as far as Paul is concerned. Also between you and one other atheist, you both have blamed Christians for not being charitable to natives, down and out people etc. as if the Christians are the only people who feel that handing out money has ruined some people of their incentives to provide for themselves. Anytime something a believer has said in disagreement about some political governmental issue, it’s been “the Christians this and the Christians that.” The only reason I’ve said anything is because this is NOT SNOW. It’s the bitterness of atheism against Christianity. Bob is showing the same thing. Sarcasm and cynicism just don’t go with Snow and Bob. I know you think you’re being skeptical, but your tenor has changed. I’m sorry I don’t mean to hurt you, but it hurts me to see the changes in two of the people that I’ve valued the most. EDIT: You did tell me I was too trusting to believe everything in the Bible. Then you turned around and said you didn’t. What am I supposed to think. Either Im too trusting in your opinion or I’m not. Sure, I admit, I trust the Bible but to a certain point. I realize first there’s been too many transcriptions between original to present bibles. Number two, I also realize that in the Bible things were recorded according to the amount of knowledge and understanding that was average in that day. Then in the other hand, I’ve come to realize there are God’s mysteries hidden in the Bible so very wisely.
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Post by nathan on Jan 23, 2020 17:57:05 GMT -5
*** I didn't say everyone who professes get the Spirit. We know from Jesus teachings about the tares vs the wheat; the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins; the goats and the sheep. Not every professing person has the Holy Spirit. Jesus said YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT! I’m sorry, Nathan. But you’d argued one time that everybody got the Holy Spirit when the first professed. I thought you were of the same thought. ** You and I have been 2x2s for many yrs and we see many things within the fellowship NOT everyone who says they are professing are professing! The fruit in their lives will tell others they are or NOT possessing the Spirit of God. Jesus said by their fruits/Spirit ye shall KNOW whether they have it or not.
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Post by mountain on Jan 23, 2020 18:05:17 GMT -5
So be it, but watching them week after week after month after month after year after year, usnt it about time to get judgmental. It pathetic they aren’t taught better. And if they were, then it’s pathetic that it’s that difficult for them to follow teachings. If you're judging these young people week after week after month after month after year after year that is not helping. Authentic Christianity is not about learning theological theory. It's about having the spirit of Christ in your heart. Authentic Christian fellowship is not about Bible-bashing others to "follow teachings". It's about sharing the love of God that is in our hearts. If you're worried about young people flicking through their Bible for something to say, encourage them to speak from their heart instead. I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day; I'd rather one should walk with me than merely tell the way. The eye is a better pupil, more willing than the ear; Fine counsel is confusing, but example is always clear, And the best of all the preachers are the men who live their creeds, For to see a good put in action is what everybody needs. I can soon learn how to do it if you will let me see it done; I can watch your hand in action, but your tongue too fast may run. And the lectures you deliver may be very wise and true, But I'd rather get my lesson by observing what you do. For I may misunderstand you and the high advice you give, But there is no misunderstanding how you act and how you live. When I see a deed of kindness, I am eager to be kind. When a weaker brother stumbles, and a strong man stands behind Just to see if he can help him, then the wish grows strong in me To become as big and thoughtful as I know that friend to be. And all travelers can witness that the best of guides today Is not the one who tells them, but the one who shows the way. One good man teaches many; men believe what they behold; One deed of kindness noted is worth forty that are told. Who stands with men of honor learns to hold his honor dear, For right living speaks a language which to everyone is clear. Though an able speaker charms me with his eloquence, I say, I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day. Nathan himself will tell you that theology begins where the simplicity of Christ ends.
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Post by joanna on Jan 23, 2020 18:36:21 GMT -5
snowBeing offended is a common response from those who believe in the supernatural dimension. It is yet another indicator of how fragile their beliefs are. Offence is a sign of insecurity. Insecurity is natural when one's "spiritual" - ( using the progressive definition ) aspect is founded on that which does not withstand rational analysis. Offence is used as a defence to guard or protect the faith-based believer from having to honestly reflect on their claims.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 18:52:53 GMT -5
snowBeing offended is a common response from those who believe in the supernatural dimension. It is yet another indicator of how fragile their beliefs are. Offence is a sign of insecurity. Insecurity is natural when one's "spiritual" - ( using the progressive definition ) aspect is founded on that which does not withstand rational analysis. Offence is used as a defence to guard or protect the faith-based believer from having to honestly reflect on their claims. You think you know, but sorry to tell you you don’t really know anything about believers.
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Post by joanna on Jan 23, 2020 18:54:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 18:57:55 GMT -5
I don't place much value on theory, I look for fruit. In that sense, Snow seems more "Christian" than the people who condemn her. It makes me sad that I offend people. I know realistically you can't please everyone, but being offensive is still something try not to do. Maybe it's time for me to go again. Give people a break. I do that every once in awhile when it seems as though I'm losing my perspective. I do it for that very reason, that I might be getting too offensive and I just don't want that to be the way it is. Don’t lose any sleep over that previous comment Snow, you are loved and respected.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 19:04:31 GMT -5
You talked about how “fragile” their belief or faith is. I don’t believe you can know that. My faith or belief is not “fragile”!
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Post by joanna on Jan 23, 2020 19:23:51 GMT -5
sharingtheriches . I have observed yourself and most other Christians using avoidance when responding to questions or comments or simply ignoring the questions (at least you do engage STR). There have been infinite indications that yours and others belief is fragile due to the overwhelming failure to honestly answer questions. This exposes your belief as fragile. The reason for this thread - that the 2x2's adopt secular protocols to prevent CSA proves the absence of a benevolent and all-knowing, all-powerful, just God. Not one of you (nor any other faith-based believer) has Ever provided a rational explanation for the existence of suffering? And in this thread's relevance - why a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god allows little children to be sexually abused? xna recently posted this.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 19:59:06 GMT -5
sharingtheriches . I have observed yourself and most other Christians using avoidance when responding to questions or comments or simply ignoring the questions (at least you do engage STR). There have been infinite indications that yours and others belief is fragile due to the overwhelming failure to honestly answer questions. This exposes your belief as fragile. The reason for this thread - that the 2x2's adopt secular protocols to prevent CSA proves the absence of a benevolent and all-knowing, all-powerful, just God. Not one of you (nor any other faith-based believer) has Ever provided a rational explanation for the existence of suffering? And in this thread's relevance - why a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god allows little children to be sexually abused? xna recently posted this. I have posted on similar threads. I detest CSA as much as anybody, having been a victim at age 14-15. But again it isn’t Christians that are the only ones who do such evil. They’ve been castigated as a group for allowing such people in their groups. I don’t like the ministerial persons covering for the perps and cowering the victims making the victims another kind of victim. I realize a big fault is many people have NO IDEA the damage that results from CSA. It was one thing that had been taboo to be discussed at even family levels. If the results had been taught in the family then groups of any kind would not be caught with their pants down, literally. But the ministry and teacher careers notably draws such minded people. Because of the sheer numbers of potential victims. This should be addressed in the education of such career minded people. Edit: I disagree it has anything to do with God but has to do with the evil that seems to be continually in the hearts of humans. This world has become all about “me and what I want”, and no thought for anyone else. That is not God’s fault. He kindly gave mankind free will, but a majority of people abuse that free will in trespassing upon the vulnerable and innocents.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 23, 2020 20:02:31 GMT -5
So.. you believe Speak, that Christ lives in the middle of the planet Venus. And the good looking nice smelling Angels.....and commander Thor etc They have been stated by Nathan, all to do with Christ. one has to have the ability to separate the alien theory from regular christian talk, try it sometime.... Now is that advice for Nathan, or for the rest of us?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 23, 2020 20:06:11 GMT -5
Sorry Enuf, but they don't have a documented creed, and certainly don't have ordained Ministers. They have a recognized creed. They preach their creeds and there are many convention notes with it in. 2x2, non married ministry, church in the home, etc. Just they have not called it an offical statement of faith but it's official and preached none the less. They are a church, a separate denomination and organisation. The non-married ministry is a relatively recent part of the creed.
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Post by nathan on Jan 23, 2020 20:55:35 GMT -5
They have a recognized creed. They preach their creeds and there are many convention notes with it in. 2x2, non married ministry, church in the home, etc. Just they have not called it an offical statement of faith but it's official and preached none the less. They are a church, a separate denomination and organisation. The non-married ministry is a relatively recent part of the creed. Jesus, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Apollo, Titus and many through the ages were Non-married and perhaps most of the apostles themselves.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 1:13:32 GMT -5
The non-married ministry is a relatively recent part of the creed. Jesus, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Apollo, Titus and many through the ages were Non-married and perhaps most of the apostles themselves.I know that. But non-married wasn't the RULE, like it is today.
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Post by nathan on Jan 24, 2020 2:25:50 GMT -5
Jesus, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Apollo, Titus and many through the ages were Non-married and perhaps most of the apostles themselves. I know that. But non-married wasn't the RULE, like it is today. It was widely accepted to be non-married among the apostles because of traveling lifestyle as preachers for them! NOT wise to have a wife and bring along with 6 dozen kids, and let the followers take care of them.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 2:32:24 GMT -5
I know that. But non-married wasn't the RULE, like it is today. It was widely accepted to be non-married among the apostles because of traveling lifestyle as preachers for them! NOT wise to have a wife and bring along with 6 dozen kids, and let the followers take care of them.Are you trying to enlighten me some way on this topic?
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Post by Grant on Jan 24, 2020 2:46:10 GMT -5
I know that. But non-married wasn't the RULE, like it is today. It was widely accepted to be non-married among the apostles because of traveling lifestyle as preachers for them! NOT wise to have a wife and bring along with 6 dozen kids, and let the followers take care of them.Who has 6 dozen kids?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 2:54:09 GMT -5
I know that. But non-married wasn't the RULE, like it is today. It was widely accepted to be non-married among the apostles because of traveling lifestyle as preachers for them! NOT wise to have a wife and bring along with 6 dozen kids, and let the followers take care of them.Widely accepted doesn't mean it was the required practice Mandatory celibacy was largely a Catholic invention.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 2:59:10 GMT -5
It was widely accepted to be non-married among the apostles because of traveling lifestyle as preachers for them! NOT wise to have a wife and bring along with 6 dozen kids, and let the followers take care of them. Who has 6 dozen kids? just missing a hyphen don't get too excited...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 3:03:08 GMT -5
just missing a hyphen don't get too excited... Where should the missing hyphen be in that sentence?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 24, 2020 3:03:48 GMT -5
It was widely accepted to be non-married among the apostles because of traveling lifestyle as preachers for them! NOT wise to have a wife and bring along with 6 dozen kids, and let the followers take care of them. Who has 6 dozen kids? That's the result of the ban on TV's.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 3:04:49 GMT -5
just missing a hyphen don't get too excited... Where should the missing hyphen be in that sentence? 6-dozen....
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 3:09:08 GMT -5
Where should the missing hyphen be in that sentence? 6-dozen.... What is a 6-dozen if not 72?
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