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Post by Ross.Bowden on Jan 15, 2020 4:38:04 GMT -5
This Convention (which has been referenced on TMB previously) starts tomorrow at the Convention grounds near Sydney. The speaker's list for the Convention is attached. From what has been sent to me, I understand that there are around 160 workers attending: - around 120 or so Australian workers - 10 from New Zealand - A reasonable number of ex pat Australian workers on home visit - A reasonable number of visiting male and female workers from around the world who have been on the Australia/NZ convention circuit I have no specific interest in the Convention, apart from further actions which may emerge to protect children from child sexual abuse within the 2x2 church and assist the healing process of victims of Child Sexual Abuse within the church (some of whom we continue to support). In some discussions with the church post the Sixty Minutes program, I was reasonably confident positive steps would be taken on this front. This has occurred with the rollout in NSW in mid 2019 of the Child Safety Policy and Worker Code of Conduct. However, this Code/Policy was recently breached by the NSW Head Worker from the platform at one of the recent local conventions - as passed on by a number who attended. The Head Worker declared that there was absolutely nothing to worry about in relation to the Sixty Minutes program - which simply treats the victims' stories on that program with contempt and further marginalises them. There is little point in rolling out a Code of Conduct/Child Safety Policy if there is no process for dealing with breaches or consequences for breaches. Time will tell whether these exist.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 10:48:34 GMT -5
This Convention (which has been referenced on TMB previously) starts tomorrow at the Convention grounds near Sydney. The speaker's list for the Convention is attached. From what has been sent to me, I understand that there are around 160 workers attending: - around 120 or so Australian workers - 10 from New Zealand - A reasonable number of ex pat Australian workers on home visit - A reasonable number of visiting male and female workers from around the world who have been on the Australia/NZ convention circuit I have no specific interest in the Convention, apart from further actions which may emerge to protect children from child sexual abuse within the 2x2 church and assist the healing process of victims of Child Sexual Abuse within the church (some of whom we continue to support). In some discussions with the church post the Sixty Minutes program, I was reasonably confident positive steps would be taken on this front. This has occurred with the rollout in NSW in mid 2019 of the Child Safety Policy and Worker Code of Conduct. However, this Code/Policy was recently breached by the NSW Head Worker from the platform at one of the recent local conventions - as passed on by a number who attended. The Head Worker declared that there was absolutely nothing to worry about in relation to the Sixty Minutes program - which simply treats the victims' stories on that program with contempt and further marginalises them. There is little point in rolling out a Code of Conduct/Child Safety Policy if there is no process for dealing with breaches or consequences for breaches. Time will tell whether these exist. Thanks. RossB. If these workers who believed there was nothing absolutely nothing to worry about in relation to 60 min. and NOT follow the Code of Conduct/Child Safety Policy will be end up in jail. Just like what happened in United States with the Overseer JF and his companion for NOT reporting CSA to the authority!
I hope the friends use the brains God has given them and REPORT any CSA in the ministry or those in the fellowship to the authority first! and let them sort it out.... leave the workers out of it because they want to protect the ministry and church to cover it up and they will end up in Jail or prison for it.
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 15, 2020 13:32:16 GMT -5
I wonder if they will notice an improved spirit in this convention; better than with the friends.
All 16 speakers are male, and in accordance with the scriptures the women will truly keep silent in the church and not be permitted to teach.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 13:39:23 GMT -5
Thanks Ross, interesting. I note from the speaking list, not one Sister Worker to speak. That is disappointing, any organisation that does not include Women in its management will not move forward in this day and age. No longer can the "Boys Club", mentality be maintained.
One has to wonder if this is just a preaching competition, or will there be policy discussions. Will there be a Final Communiqué for all to see. Transparency is long overdue.
No doubt there will be a few privileged laity to do cooking,etc. What a hoot, to be chosen to look after 160 Workers. Guaranteed to get a pass to Heaven.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 14:41:13 GMT -5
Thanks Ross, interesting. I note from the speaking list, not one Sister Worker to speak. That is disappointing, any organisation that does not include Women in its management will not move forward in this day and age. No longer can the "Boys Club", mentality be maintained. One has to wonder if this is just a preaching competition, or will there be policy discussions. Will there be a Final Communiqué for all to see. Transparency is long overdue. No doubt there will be a few privileged laity to do cooking,etc. What a hoot, to be chosen to look after 160 Workers. Guaranteed to get a pass to Heaven. ** I will share some insider information about workers meetings. Every worker pray and give their ttestimony but the senior/overseer workers on the list speak last. That is how they conduct the workers meetings USA very similar to Sunday morning meetings.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 15, 2020 14:43:06 GMT -5
M
Oops something happened! I evidently hit the wrong button?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 15, 2020 14:44:44 GMT -5
Thanks Ross, interesting. I note from the speaking list, not one Sister Worker to speak. That is disappointing, any organisation that does not include Women in its management will not move forward in this day and age. No longer can the "Boys Club", mentality be maintained. One has to wonder if this is just a preaching competition, or will there be policy discussions. Will there be a Final Communiqué for all to see. Transparency is long overdue. No doubt there will be a few privileged laity to do cooking,etc. What a hoot, to be chosen to look after 160 Workers. Guaranteed to get a pass to Heaven. Ive always said the “good ole boys club”. I’ve heard workers say that the older brothers have a conflab before or during the regular meetings about issues.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 14:50:58 GMT -5
Thanks Ross, interesting. I note from the speaking list, not one Sister Worker to speak. That is disappointing, any organisation that does not include Women in its management will not move forward in this day and age. No longer can the "Boys Club", mentality be maintained. One has to wonder if this is just a preaching competition, or will there be policy discussions. Will there be a Final Communiqué for all to see. Transparency is long overdue. No doubt there will be a few privileged laity to do cooking,etc. What a hoot, to be chosen to look after 160 Workers. Guaranteed to get a pass to Heaven. ** I will share some insider information about workers meetings. Every worker pray and give their ttestimony but the senior/overseer workers on the list speak last. That is how they conduct the workers meetings similar to Sunday morning meetings. Sounds like policy discussion is lacking. Much better if there was a Q and A session. Looks like Workers meetings won't solve any problems. One way to fade into obscurity.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 14:59:52 GMT -5
** I will share some insider information about workers meetings. Every worker pray and give their ttestimony but the senior/overseer workers on the list speak last. That is how they conduct the workers meetings similar to Sunday morning meetings. Sounds like policy discussion is lacking. Much better if there was a Q and A session. Looks like Workers meetings won't solve any problems. One way to fade into obscurity. ** They solved these Q and A in the overseers and Senior workers meeting they might have invited some senior sisters workers to attend. I know the overseers do seek the senior sisters workers for advices from their perspectives of things.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 15:52:56 GMT -5
Disappointing to read there are no women preachers speaking at the meeting. Time for a woman overseer.
I initially just looked at speakers list & notably no women’s names. But now, realise some are in attendance & speak. That part is good.
What’s that song........”when will they ever learn”. ( re no women on list /overseer).
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 16:03:51 GMT -5
Disappointing to read there are no women preachers at the meeting. IMO that is so wrong, What’s that song........”when will they ever learn”. ** There are many sister workers in the workers meeting, each of them pray and speak. So, what do you mean there are no women preachers/workers in the meeting?
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 16:16:00 GMT -5
I just looked at the list & sadly no women’s names. I since realise there are women workers there. ** The list was posted so the brothers and sister workers in the workers meeting KNOW the names of which older brother will be speaking lastt at certain time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 16:18:02 GMT -5
I just looked at the list & sadly no women’s names. I since realise there are women workers there. ** The list was posted so the brothers and sister workers in the workers meeting KNOW the names of which older brother will be speaking lastt at certain time. Missing an older sister name I notice, as Redback pointed out.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 16:23:52 GMT -5
Thanks Ross, interesting. I note from the speaking list, not one Sister Worker to speak. That is disappointing, any organisation that does not include Women in its management will not move forward in this day and age. No longer can the "Boys Club", mentality be maintained. One has to wonder if this is just a preaching competition, or will there be policy discussions. Will there be a Final Communiqué for all to see. Transparency is long overdue. No doubt there will be a few privileged laity to do cooking,etc. What a hoot, to be chosen to look after 160 Workers. Guaranteed to get a pass to Heaven. ** The sister workers and capable brothers will do the cooking at the workers meetings. At our convention we have two brothers who are in charge with the cooking for conventions. To give the sister workers or the friends a break. The brothers don't want the sisters to get all the rewards in heaven, you know.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 16:27:53 GMT -5
** The list was posted so the brothers and sister workers in the workers meeting KNOW the names of which older brother will be speaking lastt at certain time. Missing an older sister name I notice, as Redback pointed out. ** Any of the sister worker is free to speak her mind when her time to speak in the workers meetings they don't need to sit on front row. They can speak where they are sitting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 16:39:49 GMT -5
Who would really know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 16:42:46 GMT -5
Yes Nathan, we know the Sister Workers are there. But the point Olea and myself are making is why don't they get equal builing with the Brother Workers. Let some of the senior Sister Workers conduct a session. If the blokes did that they may learn an important lesson. Mother knows best. Why is it necessary for two guys to sit on the platform and run the show. Let the ladies have a turn, they would probably do it better,they have more sensitive feelings.
We are now in the year 2020, not 300AD. As Olea said "When will they ever learn".
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 15, 2020 19:08:11 GMT -5
I just looked at the list & sadly no women’s names. I since realise there are women workers there. ** The list was posted so the brothers and sister workers in the workers meeting KNOW the names of which older brother will be speaking lastt at certain time. This is not a run of the mill yearly workers meeting. It is a special workers CONVENTION Sister workers ARE included on speaking list at regular conventions up till now. They are not included on this workers convention speaking list. So this is a really noticable difference among professing people where even the order of worker names on a list has a specific meaning (years seniority as a worker and which worker in the pair has authority over the other)
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 15, 2020 19:14:21 GMT -5
Yes Nathan, we know the Sister Workers are there. But the point Olea and myself are making is why don't they get equal builing with the Brother Workers. Let some of the senior Sister Workers conduct a session. If the blokes did that they may learn an important lesson. Mother knows best. Why is it necessary for two guys to sit on the platform and run the show. Let the ladies have a turn, they would probably do it better,they have more sensitive feelings. We are now in the year 2020, not 300AD. As Olea said "When will they ever learn". 2x2’s are actually rather liberal and modern in this regard. Cherie Kropp's website indicates that women preaching is one of the top reasons why the exes leave the Truth "Unscriptural use of women as teachers in the church". "Presence of Women Preachers" thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93:some-reasons-why-we-left&catid=13:observations&Itemid=17
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Post by Pragmatic on Jan 15, 2020 19:18:21 GMT -5
Yes Nathan, we know the Sister Workers are there. But the point Olea and myself are making is why don't they get equal builing with the Brother Workers. Let some of the senior Sister Workers conduct a session. If the blokes did that they may learn an important lesson. Mother knows best. Why is it necessary for two guys to sit on the platform and run the show. Let the ladies have a turn, they would probably do it better,they have more sensitive feelings. We are now in the year 2020, not 300AD. As Olea said "When will they ever learn". Peter, Paul and Mary - "Where have all the flowers gone". The Seekers with Judith Durham also did a cover of it, which I preferred. (Great Aussie folk group!)
Old habits die hard is probably the only reason why things remain, what looks like from the outside, to be sexism.
To be honest, I think some of the sister workers who would be vocal are probably the ones who's opinions would not be consistent with today, and some of those who would simply just "know their place, and remain silent" are those who if required could probably have a positive input. (And I wish they would be given the opportunity)
I know of some sister workers who are the loveliest people, and simply just "hurt" when they see and hear things they don't approve of. On the other hand, some older and senior ones can be right battle-axes and tyrants. (words shared to me by a now deceased senior male worker, in describing a couple of senior female workers we were discussing at the time)
So it doesn't really bother me that there does not seem to be equality among the seniors, because of the issue of meritocracy, although I would like to see certain female workers I know be given an opportunity to have some input.
On the issue of CSA, one has to be brutal and make sure the laws of the country and morality are upheld, and if it means a senior worker is unwilling to do that, he should be displaced, plain and simple. And we as the leity need to do all in our power to see that innocent children are never harmed, and those responsible and culpable are brought to justice.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 19:48:53 GMT -5
** The list was posted so the brothers and sister workers in the workers meeting KNOW the names of which older brother will be speaking lastt at certain time. This is not a run of the mill yearly workers meeting. It is a special workers CONVENTION Sister workers ARE included on speaking list at regular conventions up till now. They are not included on this workers convention speaking list. So this is a really noticable difference among professing people where even the order of worker names on a list has a specific meaning (years seniority as a worker and which worker in the pair has authority over the other) You don't understand.... At the workers meetings for the workers there are NO speaking list for the sisters or the brothers, all are free to speak the Older brothers and Overseers speak last. Just like the list that posted on the post. I recognized many names and I Know who they are and the positions they have in the ministry.
They might have overseers and Senior workers meetings after this workers meetings behind closed doors, discussing CSA policy around the world and other issues they need to be addressed.
Perhaps, our resident worker on TMB can tell us what was mentioned in this workers meetings.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 21:40:45 GMT -5
Yes Nathan, we know the Sister Workers are there. But the point Olea and myself are making is why don't they get equal builing with the Brother Workers. Let some of the senior Sister Workers conduct a session. If the blokes did that they may learn an important lesson. Mother knows best. Why is it necessary for two guys to sit on the platform and run the show. Let the ladies have a turn, they would probably do it better,they have more sensitive feelings. We are now in the year 2020, not 300AD. As Olea said "When will they ever learn". 2x2’s are actually rather liberal and modern in this regard. Cherie Kropp's website indicates that women preaching is one of the top reasons why the exes leave the Truth "Unscriptural use of women as teachers in the church". "Presence of Women Preachers" thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93:some-reasons-why-we-left&catid=13:observations&Itemid=172x2's are way behind when it comes to equality of the sexes. They stick with Paul's teachings, who was a chauvinist. Sister Workers have been subservient to Brother Workers for far to long. It is their turn to be on top, and not under Brother Workers. Main stream Churches are way ahead of 2x2's when it comes to Female leadership. A good example is Kay Goldsworthy. Kay Maree Goldsworthy AO (born 1955) is an Australian bishop of the Anglican Church of Australia. She is the current Archbishop of Perth in the Province of Western Australia. Kay is a married lady, and has reared two children. A wonderful knowledge that men will never get. There was a program about her on "Compass" a Sunday ABC program. One great lady, loved by her people. This sort of talent should be given a greater opportunity to manifest itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 22:00:43 GMT -5
Yes Nathan, we know the Sister Workers are there. But the point Olea and myself are making is why don't they get equal builing with the Brother Workers. Let some of the senior Sister Workers conduct a session. If the blokes did that they may learn an important lesson. Mother knows best. Why is it necessary for two guys to sit on the platform and run the show. Let the ladies have a turn, they would probably do it better,they have more sensitive feelings. We are now in the year 2020, not 300AD. As Olea said "When will they ever learn". Peter, Paul and Mary - "Where have all the flowers gone". The Seekers with Judith Durham also did a cover of it, which I preferred. (Great Aussie folk group!)
Old habits die hard is probably the only reason why things remain, what looks like from the outside, to be sexism.
To be honest, I think some of the sister workers who would be vocal are probably the ones who's opinions would not be consistent with today, and some of those who would simply just "know their place, and remain silent" are those who if required could probably have a positive input. (And I wish they would be given the opportunity)
I know of some sister workers who are the loveliest people, and simply just "hurt" when they see and hear things they don't approve of. On the other hand, some older and senior ones can be right battle-axes and tyrants. (words shared to me by a now deceased senior male worker, in describing a couple of senior female workers we were discussing at the time)
So it doesn't really bother me that there does not seem to be equality among the seniors, because of the issue of meritocracy, although I would like to see certain female workers I know be given an opportunity to have some input.
On the issue of CSA, one has to be brutal and make sure the laws of the country and morality are upheld, and if it means a senior worker is unwilling to do that, he should be displaced, plain and simple. And we as the leity need to do all in our power to see that innocent children are never harmed, and those responsible and culpable are brought to justice.
All good points Prag. .....trust whatever eventuates from such a meeting.. it most importantly addresses honesty & sensitivity in issues.
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Post by reborn on Jan 15, 2020 22:19:18 GMT -5
I will be praying for this Convention.
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Post by nathan on Jan 15, 2020 22:47:16 GMT -5
I will be praying for this Convention. I pray that ALL of the workers around the world will agree ZERO tolerant on CSA within the ministry and fellowship! Let's eliminate and eradicate this among us and in the world.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 16, 2020 11:56:00 GMT -5
This is not a run of the mill yearly workers meeting. It is a special workers CONVENTION Sister workers ARE included on speaking list at regular conventions up till now. They are not included on this workers convention speaking list. So this is a really noticable difference among professing people where even the order of worker names on a list has a specific meaning (years seniority as a worker and which worker in the pair has authority over the other) You don't understand.... At the workers meetings for the workers there are NO speaking list for the sisters or the brothers, all are free to speak the Older brothers and Overseers speak last. Just like the list that posted on the post. I recognized many names and I Know who they are and the positions they have in the ministry.
They might have overseers and Senior workers meetings after this workers meetings behind closed doors, discussing CSA policy around the world and other issues they need to be addressed.
Perhaps, our resident worker on TMB can tell us what was mentioned in this workers meetings.
You don't understand.... You say that a lot Nathan.
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Post by nathan on Jan 16, 2020 12:15:24 GMT -5
You don't understand.... At the workers meetings for the workers there are NO speaking list for the sisters or the brothers, all are free to speak the Older brothers and Overseers speak last. Just like the list that posted on the post. I recognized many names and I Know who they are and the positions they have in the ministry.
They might have overseers and Senior workers meetings after this workers meetings behind closed doors, discussing CSA policy around the world and other issues they need to be addressed.
Perhaps, our resident worker on TMB can tell us what was mentioned in this workers meetings.
You don't understand.... You say that a lot Nathan. ** If I see and things you and others say are not correct then I will say you are wrong and don't understand it fully. I will present my side and you either believe or not it's up to you.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 16, 2020 18:10:24 GMT -5
I was given to think that workers meetings were for 2 things. Number one was to get all the workers on the same page about the legalistic demands. Number 2 was to whip fervor into the workers for another year behind the plow.
I know there are some state overseers who will have a state level workers meeting after regular conventions are over and it’s for these reasons generally.
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