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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 4:20:20 GMT -5
nathan knows my stance on the alien theory and never broaches it with me...tough love in action... How can you be of one accord with someone who believes Jesus lives inside venus. It is offense to Christians. The workers pride themselves by being of the same mind. Nathan is not of the same mind. You do not challenge Nathan on it but are quick to challenge exes on many things. I have not seen you show any tough love to Nathan. Not believing 'his way out claims' is not showing tough love. if he knows my stance on the alien theory and doesn't broach it with me how is that not "a challenge"? if he knows my stance on the alien theory and knows to not broach it with me how is that not tough love? what i believe we have here is a group of people(you included) who wish to bash someone(nathan) to no end so they can feel morally superior...or have a look at me i am not nathan fetish... nathan on a couple of occasions has tried to not talk about his alien theory but you and others keep bringing it up and around we go again...you only have yourselves to blame for it continuing...
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Post by Grant on Jan 23, 2020 4:24:43 GMT -5
You have got it all wrong Wally.
He attacks athiests and those in your church who disagree with him all the time telling them they're going to hell and so on.
Look how he's speaking to Chuck and without looking over the posts, I'm not sure I've seen Chuck speak about his alien theories. In fact Nathan doesn't call them theories but fact. Any professing person who comes on here and challenges him he attacks and chases them off the board. You support his posts which is why he's fine with you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 4:28:22 GMT -5
Sorry Enuf per the guidelines they do not qualify as a Church but would be classed as a Religious organisation. Bit of a longbow to say they have a creed and ordained Ministers.
Taking the Traditional Path to Ordination Have a calling. Traditionally, ordained Christian ministers have felt a strong pull to become spiritual leaders. ... Have a college degree. ... Apply to bible school or seminary. ... Receive your ordained minister license. ... Become a minister at a particular church.
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Post by Grant on Jan 23, 2020 4:32:29 GMT -5
That sounds like a good definition but guess it's how you define 'church'.
Are the 2x2s a religious organisation within the Christian religion or a separate religious organisation of it's own? I have a problem when people call the 2x2s, the Baptist etc a religion, when the religion is Christianity.
I do believe the 2x2s preach their creed and ordain their ministers for ministry.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 4:33:21 GMT -5
You have got it all wrong Wally. He attacks athiests and those in your church who disagree with him all the time telling them they're going to hell and so on. Look how he's speaking to Chuck and without looking over the posts, I'm not sure I've seen Chuck speak about his alien theories. In fact Nathan doesn't call them theories but fact. you've changed the subject. now its nathan disagrees with people and says they are going to hell. a lot of christians do that heck even i have done that.
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Post by Grant on Jan 23, 2020 4:38:14 GMT -5
People have expressed their shock at how he speaks to people on here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 4:42:15 GMT -5
If you want a professional go to a Church, if you are happy with an amateur go to a Religious organisation. I prefer professionals, much better informed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 4:45:55 GMT -5
People have expressed their shock at how he speaks to people on here. well one of two things are occuring when that happens either nathan is offbase or someone is trying to get away with a sin or two....i suspect the latter its been almost 6 years since i've arrived at TMB so i can't remember everything nathan has said but i'll bet for the most part hes preach fire and brimstone over doctrine issues and not his alien theory....
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Post by Grant on Jan 23, 2020 4:52:16 GMT -5
People have expressed their shock at how he speaks to people on here. well one of two things are occuring when that happens either nathan is offbase or someone is trying to get away with a sin or two....i suspect the latter its been almost 6 years since i've arrived at TMB so i can't remember everything nathan has said but i'll bet for the most part hes preach fire and brimstone over doctrine issues and not his alien theory.... So other professing peoples' doctrine is wrong and Nathan's is right? Nathan is calling people out on a sin? Nathan's doctrine is off beat with most people. His doctrine issues with professing people on here is often the Trinity.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 4:59:36 GMT -5
well one of two things are occuring when that happens either nathan is offbase or someone is trying to get away with a sin or two....i suspect the latter its been almost 6 years since i've arrived at TMB so i can't remember everything nathan has said but i'll bet for the most part hes preach fire and brimstone over doctrine issues and not his alien theory.... So other professing peoples' doctrine is wrong and Nathan's is right? Nathan's doctrine is off beat with most people. His doctrine issues with professing people on here is usually the Trinity. are professing people perfect? i know i am not and neither is nathan.... thats because they have problems with separating his alien theory from regular christian talk... i'm a trinity believer. which trinity i am unsure of as there appears to be 2 versions now...
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Post by Grant on Jan 23, 2020 5:26:35 GMT -5
His alien theories are his Christian talk. Jesus, heaven and Pastor Strange are his Christian talk and claims that they are in the Bible.
My understanding is The Catholic trinity is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one being. The other or mostly Protestant Trinity belief is that these 3 are separate parts which make up God. Is that what you mean? I believe the later.
I don't feel comfortable with calling Jesus God the Son because I believe he is only one part of God and I have not heard people say God the Son athough I attended Trinity believing churches for years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 5:34:42 GMT -5
His alien theories are his Christian talk. Jesus, heaven and Pastor Strange are his Christian talk and claims that they are in the Bible. My understanding is The Catholic trinity is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one being. The other or mostly Protestant Trinity belief is that these 3 are separate parts which make up God. Is that what you mean? I believe the later. I don't feel comfortable with calling Jesus God the Son because I believe he is only one part of God and I have not heard people say God the Son athough I attended Trinity believing churches for years. when nathan discusses doctrine with people I.E adultery, homosexuality, murder he doesn't talk about his alien theory... yes thats what i mean....
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Post by Grant on Jan 23, 2020 5:46:07 GMT -5
Can't say I've really heard him talk much about adultery, homosexuality or murder. It's usually aliens, the Trinity or the 2x2s going back to Jesus. (Not nice to talk about him behind his back, wonder if his ears are burning .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 5:54:37 GMT -5
Can't say I've really heard him talk much about adultery, homosexuality or murder. It's usually aliens, the Trinity or the 2x2s going back to Jesus. (Not nice to talk about him behind his back, wonder if his ears are burning . he just got done talking with STR and chuck about apostles and the requirements....not an alien in sight... agreed....
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Post by mountain on Jan 23, 2020 7:23:22 GMT -5
I believe the 2x2s have all them. Sorry Enuf, but they don't have a documented creed, and certainly don't have ordained Ministers. Do these things fit with the 1st Century 'church?' If so, they are a church. Any modern day add ons or understandings are 'church plus' according to what we read in scripture. The Word of God MUST be our benchmark, NOT man's traditions, practices and understandings.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 8:16:23 GMT -5
Nathan has two or three worlds mixed together. He doesn’t seem to know how to separate them.. I KNOW what I am talking about. It's you who don't know because of your unbelief on these things.I said you know but you don’t seem to know how to divide them.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 8:26:46 GMT -5
Sorry Enuf, but they don't have a documented creed, and certainly don't have ordained Ministers. Do these things fit with the 1st Century 'church?' If so, they are a church. Any modern day add ons or understandings are 'church plus' according to what we read in scripture. The Word of God MUST be our benchmark, NOT man's traditions, practices and understandings. But there’s one thing that the 2x2s never consider, and that’s the fact his Apostles spent 3 and 1/2 years with the Master theologian. And according to Acts of Apostles they still didn’t have it all together. If every minister spent 3 and 1/2 years under Jesus’ tutelage, then seminary or bible school wouldn’t be a necessity. Because the Bible is about Jesus and who better to teach that then Jesus himself?
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Post by nathan on Jan 23, 2020 9:18:24 GMT -5
I KNOW what I am talking about. It's you who don't know because of your unbelief on these things. I said you know but you don’t seem to know how to divide them. How can I know but I don't KNOW to divide them? If I KNOW then I must KNOW to divide them, right. Like I said it is you who don't understand or believe what I know.
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Post by nathan on Jan 23, 2020 9:25:16 GMT -5
Do these things fit with the 1st Century 'church?' If so, they are a church. Any modern day add ons or understandings are 'church plus' according to what we read in scripture. The Word of God MUST be our benchmark, NOT man's traditions, practices and understandings. But there’s one thing that the 2x2s never consider, and that’s the fact his Apostles spent 3 and 1/2 years with the Master theologian. And according to Acts of Apostles they still didn’t have it all together. If every minister spent 3 and 1/2 years under Jesus’ tutelage, then seminary or bible school wouldn’t be a necessity. Because the Bible is about Jesus and who better to teach that then Jesus himself? You Still don't get it, STR... The Holy Spirit is a good TEACHER as Jesus. The Holy Spirit has been the apostles TEACHER the last 2000 yrs, they MUST listen to that STILL SMALL voice. He is here and teaching the apostles/workers and the friends, they don't NEED men seminary or Bible school at all.
John the apostle wrote 2000 yrs ago, in 1 John 2:27 "But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie.
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Post by nathan on Jan 23, 2020 9:28:44 GMT -5
His alien theories are his Christian talk. Jesus, heaven and Pastor Strange are his Christian talk and claims that they are in the Bible. My understanding is The Catholic trinity is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one being. The other or mostly Protestant Trinity belief is that these 3 are separate parts which make up God. Is that what you mean? I believe the later. I don't feel comfortable with calling Jesus God the Son because I believe he is only one part of God and I have not heard people say God the Son athough I attended Trinity believing churches for years. For over 20 yrs I have discussed MANY topics about the Bible, not only Stranges, ET, and Valiant Thor. You must have read and pay attentions to Frank Stranges, ET, and Valiant Thor posts only.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 9:32:53 GMT -5
But there’s one thing that the 2x2s never consider, and that’s the fact his Apostles spent 3 and 1/2 years with the Master theologian. And according to Acts of Apostles they still didn’t have it all together. If every minister spent 3 and 1/2 years under Jesus’ tutelage, then seminary or bible school wouldn’t be a necessity. Because the Bible is about Jesus and who better to teach that then Jesus himself? You Still don't get it, STR... The Holy Spirit is a good TEACHER as Jesus. The Holy Spirit has been the apostles TEACHER the last 2000 yrs, they MUST listen to that STILL SMALL voice. He is here and teaching the apostles/workers and the friends, they don't NEED men seminary or Bible school at all.
John the apostle wrote 2000 yrs ago, in 1 John 2:27 "But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie.
You don’t get it either! There’s times people don’t have the Holy Spirit. There’s times even for people the Holy Spirit doesn’t reveal and it generally has to do with the condition of the individuals. When a person is already out preaching they need to start with basic bible intelligence. Most young workers go out in the work because they see the reverence workers receive by the other workers and friends. Or they’re pressured into it. So they are little prepared. All they end up doing is mimicking the older workers. And now after several generations of this that’s why there’s little real bible teaching frim the workers.
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Post by mountain on Jan 23, 2020 10:20:49 GMT -5
Do these things fit with the 1st Century 'church?' If so, they are a church. Any modern day add ons or understandings are 'church plus' according to what we read in scripture. The Word of God MUST be our benchmark, NOT man's traditions, practices and understandings. But there’s one thing that the 2x2s never consider, and that’s the fact his Apostles spent 3 and 1/2 years with the Master theologian. And according to Acts of Apostles they still didn’t have it all together. If every minister spent 3 and 1/2 years under Jesus’ tutelage, then seminary or bible school wouldn’t be a necessity. Because the Bible is about Jesus and who better to teach that then Jesus himself? Jesus promised that those who followed him would be taught by the Holy Spirit, not man! John 14 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 11:07:51 GMT -5
But there’s one thing that the 2x2s never consider, and that’s the fact his Apostles spent 3 and 1/2 years with the Master theologian. And according to Acts of Apostles they still didn’t have it all together. If every minister spent 3 and 1/2 years under Jesus’ tutelage, then seminary or bible school wouldn’t be a necessity. Because the Bible is about Jesus and who better to teach that then Jesus himself? Jesus promised that those who followed him would be taught by the Holy Spirit, not man! John 14 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.He was speaking to his 12 Apostles. Yes, the Holy Spirit reveals things to those in whom he’s indwelling. But not all people have the indwelling Spirit. Not all people allow the indwelling Spirit. Also the Spirit reveals to those whom he feels are ready for revelations. Thus you start out with little to no real biblical understanding, how can you be an effective preacher? You just repeat what you think you’ve heard yourself and there’s no life in it because of no biblical literacy nor indwelling spirit. Good ministry needs to start with good biblical intelligence. Then things aren’t taught skewed or faulty.
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Post by mountain on Jan 23, 2020 12:39:34 GMT -5
Jesus promised that those who followed him would be taught by the Holy Spirit, not man! John 14 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.He was speaking to his 12 Apostles. Yes, the Holy Spirit reveals things to those in whom he’s indwelling. But not all people have the indwelling Spirit. Not all people allow the indwelling Spirit. Also the Spirit reveals to those whom he feels are ready for revelations. Thus you start out with little to no real biblical understanding, how can you be an effective preacher? You just repeat what you think you’ve heard yourself and there’s no life in it because of no biblical literacy nor indwelling spirit. Good ministry needs to start with good biblical intelligence. Then things aren’t taught skewed or faulty. Not good enough for you, huh? John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Sounds like that's every follower of Christ, not just the twelve. Sooner or later the penny is going to drop. Nathan is steadfastly correct on this point. This is one occasion where Nathan founds himself on the rock, not the shifting sand of Catholicism, Protestantism,etc. Is it any wonder we have so much diversity in Christian teaching? We lean towards our own or another's understanding, rather that waiting on God to reveal to us little by little. Do you want to be like the apostle Paul or like the guy behind the pulpit? Your choice! Galatians 1 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
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Post by fixit on Jan 23, 2020 13:08:21 GMT -5
People have expressed their shock at how he speaks to people on here. well one of two things are occuring when that happens either nathan is offbase or someone is trying to get away with a sin or two....i suspect the latter Can you explain what kind of sin you think people are trying to get away with?
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Post by nathan on Jan 23, 2020 13:12:46 GMT -5
You Still don't get it, STR... The Holy Spirit is a good TEACHER as Jesus. The Holy Spirit has been the apostles TEACHER the last 2000 yrs, they MUST listen to that STILL SMALL voice. He is here and teaching the apostles/workers and the friends, they don't NEED men seminary or Bible school at all.
John the apostle wrote 2000 yrs ago, in 1 John 2:27 "But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie.
You don’t get it either! There’s times people don’t have the Holy Spirit. There’s times even for people the Holy Spirit doesn’t reveal and it generally has to do with the condition of the individuals. When a person is already out preaching they need to start with basic bible intelligence. Most young workers go out in the work because they see the reverence workers receive by the other workers and friends. Or they’re pressured into it. So they are little prepared. All they end up doing is mimicking the older workers. And now after several generations of this that’s why there’s little real bible teaching frim the workers. ** What in the world are you talking about? the Holy Spirit has been on earth for almost 2000 yr as the overseer of Jesus gospel work with the apostles and His people. You don't fully understand how it works,STR. The younger workers can learn many things from many companions they have been with, just take the good and don't repeat the unsound doctrines. Mostly, the workers are taught by the Spirit as Like Paul learned about the life and teachings of Jesus from the apostles who lived and taught by Jesus but the deeper revelation came to him through Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. I learned many good/sound teachings/doctrine from many of the senior workers BUT most of my deeper revelation come from Christ and the Holy Spirit. I had been taught a few doctrines by the workers were not so good like Anti-Trinity; Jesus is not God and we worship ONLY God the Father and NOT Jesus... These teachings I throw in the garbage. The workers want the friends to rely on God and Holy Spirit IN all things first! The Holy Spirit is their/Ours greatest of all TEACHERS!
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Post by snow on Jan 23, 2020 13:38:14 GMT -5
How did what I say about Paul construe as being 'quick to find fault'? I don't find fault, I question. I didn't fault you by saying I thought you were too trusting that everything in the bible is absolutely true and not construed in some way. I like you and I respect you. Yes I'm an atheist and yes I question things that are believed on faith. But I don't see how questioning is a 'very ugly picture'. But it's good to know what people think of you, so thanks for letting me know. I said you are far better then that! That was my point! It comes off as cynicism! Well I am definitely skeptical if that helps any. How can I not be?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2020 13:58:58 GMT -5
He was speaking to his 12 Apostles. Yes, the Holy Spirit reveals things to those in whom he’s indwelling. But not all people have the indwelling Spirit. Not all people allow the indwelling Spirit. Also the Spirit reveals to those whom he feels are ready for revelations. Thus you start out with little to no real biblical understanding, how can you be an effective preacher? You just repeat what you think you’ve heard yourself and there’s no life in it because of no biblical literacy nor indwelling spirit. Good ministry needs to start with good biblical intelligence. Then things aren’t taught skewed or faulty. Not good enough for you, huh? John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Sounds like that's every follower of Christ, not just the twelve. Sooner or later the penny is going to drop. Nathan is steadfastly correct on this point. This is one occasion where Nathan founds himself on the rock, not the shifting sand of Catholicism, Protestantism,etc. Is it any wonder we have so much diversity in Christian teaching? We lean towards our own or another's understanding, rather that waiting on God to reveal to us little by little. Do you want to be like the apostle Paul or like the guy behind the pulpit? Your choice! Galatians 1 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Where did I say the Holy Spirit died NOT teach? You’re getting a bit high and mighty trying to preach to me. I know about the indwelling a Holy Spirit. You’ve not taken what Uve said with a note of decency. We were talking about a minister standing up preaching something they were not literate on. I’ve seen and heard several. All they know to do is mimic what they’ve heard. And often in repeating they miss the lesson themselves. NOT ALL MINISTERS HAVE THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT. Not all ministers are ministers because God called them. They’re there because they’ve been pressured to do so. Or they’re there because all they’ve seen is the reverence given to other ministers/workers. And they want that. They have little to NO basic bible knowledge. Starting out in the ministry without basic bible knowledge is not recommendable. It causes a lot of problems which a majority for the illiterate minister. This is why a Bible college is the least requirement for a lot of churches. That way the amateur minister at least knows a bit about what’s in the Bible. Sure, if such persons had spent any amount of time reading and praying, they would not have been Bible illiterate. But a lot of young folks in the 2x2s rush at the last minute to find something to speak about. I know. I’ve watched them come into meeting and open their bibles and hunt frantically for something to speak on. There’s no mistaking what they’re doing. Then two or three years later they’re in the work. You think that’s a goid minister material. They haven’t learned how to feed themselves, so how can they be expected to feed the sheep?
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