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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 17:13:21 GMT -5
It is unsurprising that you vote it down because you were one of those I referred to who had boldly claimed to have had a revelation in which God taught you that the bible was true but when I pressed you to provide details of this revelation you couldn’t provide any details whatsoever. When I put it to you that the revelation you claimed to have had was merely a figment of your imagination you had no response. Your approach was that it was up to me to prove that you didn’t have a revelation which is just silly. It’s a classic deflection tactic used by believers to avoid providing evidence to support a claim which should be available if the claim was true. But no evidence is provided because no evidence exists and no evidence exists because the claim isn’t true. No doubt you would also fail to provide the evidence that you claim exists in your response here just as STR will fail to provide the details I have requested that would demonstrate that she really did see God. You will see a pattern here I’m sure. People don’t really have revelations from God and neither do they really see God. Such claims are false although that doesn’t mean that the believer doesn’t honestly and sincerely believe them. It’s just that the believer is suffering from religious delusion which causes them to believe things that aren’t true. Obviously religious believers don’t call it religious delusion. They call it faith. So when you tell me that my problem is that I don’t have faith to believe you are correct. I don’t have faith. I don’t have religious delusion. I am no longer religiously deluded although I recognise that I once was. When I had faith I believed all sorts of crazy things. So I don’t see lack of faith as a problem. I see having faith as being a problem. Faith makes you believe things that aren’t true. Faith is an excuse for believing in things that aren’t true. Faith makes you blind. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to be a believer and continually be asked to provide evidence to support things that you believe to be true but you cannot provide the evidence for because it just isn’t there. I suspect it’s rather like being a member of the flat earth society. You can see why 2x2 workers are smart not to allow questions at gospel meetings. If you are making claims that just aren’t true or that don’t add up it is better not to make them in a public forum where they are subject to scrutiny. Making unsupported claims in public forums can leave one looking very foolish if one is challenged on them and can’t provide evidence to support them. Faith is preserved best in environments where it isn’t challenged and among those who are susceptible to believing things without evidence. Matt10 You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling. I do not have strong desire to tell others they are wrong. There are many people here who I have never told they are wrong about anything. What I have a very strong desire for is truth and to expose falsehoods. And my strong desire is not for religious truth but rather for real truth. Real truth stands up to scrutiny. Religious truth doesn’t. Real truth is universal like the laws of nature. Religious truth isn’t. We can see that here because every time a believer claims a religious truth and I challenge it, the religious truth falls flat. Whether it’s the religious believer’s claim that God has spoken to them, or their claims that God Has been seen by them, the claims do not stand up to scrutiny as real truths should. There are countless religious truths many of them contradicting many other religious truths. But none of them are real truths. Each religion has its own religious truths. There are even different religious truths within the same religions. The 2x2s have their own religious truths, one of which was that only 2x2s could go to heaven. This was a religious truth but it wasn’t a real truth. It was in fact a real falsehood. We even see different religious truths presented here continually among people who claim to believe in the same God and to have the same holy sprit dwelling within. Some claim that the truth is that God is three persons. Others claim that the truth is that he is one. These are both religious truths but none of them are the real truth. The real truth is that he is none. Matt10
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Post by rational on Dec 22, 2019 17:24:35 GMT -5
Palms are called trees. Bats are called birds.If you want any more errors just ask and I am only too happy to put them out to you. MY goodness, is that the best you can come up with? two NEW enormous data found in the Bible?
1) Palms are called trees:
The Arecaceae are a botanical family of perennial plants. Their growth form can be climbers, shrubs, tree -like and stemless plants, all commonly known as palms. Those having a tree-like form are colloquially called palm trees. They are flowering plants, a family in the monocot order Arecales.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecaceae
2) Bats call birds:
In this case, the bat is categorized as a bird because like birds, it flies and is similar in size to most birds. If we did not know that it was a mammal, it would be natural to call it a bird. To the Hebrew of ancient times, calling it a bird was perfectly logical.
carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/bat-bird
Interesting you see any error as a little error. Mark 13:24-25But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.To where will the stars fall? Does this mean that the moon has already given up its light? How will the sun be darkened without ceasing to radiate electromagnetic energy?
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Post by rational on Dec 22, 2019 17:35:44 GMT -5
If you don't know the difference between good and evil, then what you do it just a puppet that can't make an informed decision. No wonder Gods don't what their followers to question. Bible says there is knowledge of the world and there is knowledge from above. You have chosen the knowledge of the world. The bible claims a number of things that are just not true. Genesis 22:17 - I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies.
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2019 17:47:34 GMT -5
MY goodness, is that the best you can come up with? two NEW enormous data found in the Bible?
1) Palms are called trees:
The Arecaceae are a botanical family of perennial plants. Their growth form can be climbers, shrubs, tree -like and stemless plants, all commonly known as palms. Those having a tree-like form are colloquially called palm trees. They are flowering plants, a family in the monocot order Arecales.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecaceae
2) Bats call birds:
In this case, the bat is categorized as a bird because like birds, it flies and is similar in size to most birds. If we did not know that it was a mammal, it would be natural to call it a bird. To the Hebrew of ancient times, calling it a bird was perfectly logical.
carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/bat-bird
Interesting you see any error as a little error. Mark 13:24-25But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.To where will the stars fall? ~~ The stars or meteorites fall from the heaven/sky to the earth.
Does this mean that the moon has already given up its light? ~~ An Eclipse will block the sun from given up its light.
How will the sun be darkened without ceasing to radiate electromagnetic energy? ~~ An Eclipse of the sun be darkened and everything be normal but no sunlight. An eclipse is an astronomical event that occurs when an astronomical object is temporarily obscured, by passing into the shadow of another body or by having another body pass between it and the viewer. This alignment of three celestial objects is known as a syzygy.Here is a picture of an eclipse. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Solar_eclipse_1999_4_NR.jpgPeter wrote II Peter 3:9-13 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The WRATH of the God and the Lamb pour out on the earth
Rev. 16: 17-21 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent/100 pounds: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 17:50:32 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Dec 22, 2019 17:52:47 GMT -5
Interesting you see any error as a little error. Mark 13:24-25But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.To where will the stars fall? ~~ The stars or meteorites fall from the heaven/sky to the earth.
No stars will fall. The earth does not have the mass to attract a star. Stars scattered throughout the universe have no place to 'fall'. Does this mean that the moon has already given up its light? ~~ An Eclipse will block the sun from given up its light.
How will the sun be darkened without ceasing to radiate electromagnetic energy? ~~ An Eclipse of the sun be darkened and everything be normal but no sunlight.Your explanations fall flat.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 17:53:32 GMT -5
Bible says there is knowledge of the world and there is knowledge from above. You have chosen the knowledge of the world. The bible claims a number of things that are just not true. Genesis 22:17 - I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies.That was in the beginning, where there is a beginning there is always an ending. The ending has not come yet.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 18:02:53 GMT -5
MY goodness, is that the best you can come up with? two NEW enormous data found in the Bible?
1) Palms are called trees:
The Arecaceae are a botanical family of perennial plants. Their growth form can be climbers, shrubs, tree -like and stemless plants, all commonly known as palms. Those having a tree-like form are colloquially called palm trees. They are flowering plants, a family in the monocot order Arecales.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecaceae
2) Bats call birds:
In this case, the bat is categorized as a bird because like birds, it flies and is similar in size to most birds. If we did not know that it was a mammal, it would be natural to call it a bird. To the Hebrew of ancient times, calling it a bird was perfectly logical.
carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/bat-bird
Interesting you see any error as a little error. Mark 13:24-25But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.To where will the stars fall? Does this mean that the moon has already given up its light? How will the sun be darkened without ceasing to radiate electromagnetic energy? I take this to mean that the powers of heaven is speaking to our universe and the different powers controlling the different planets, stars, even the moon and sun will be “shaken”. Perhaps some kind of reorder of what we now know. Revelations says that in the new heaven and earth that there will be no need for the sun, moon, and stars. We read about “4 days” in the beginning there was “light” before God ordered the sun, moon and stars. John 1 says that Jesus is the light of the life of men. Revelations says that the reason there will be no need for the sun, moon and stars in the new heaven and new earth is because the Lamb is the light of it. Jesus said he is the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end. Thus the present earth and its universe will never be again. It will be finished.
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2019 18:11:23 GMT -5
Bible says there is knowledge of the world and there is knowledge from above. You have chosen the knowledge of the world. The bible claims a number of things that are just not true. Genesis 22:17 - I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies. God blessed Abraham and multiply his race of as the 12 tribes of Israel as a nation and there are millions of Jews still exist around the world today! God Yahweh told the children to enter and take the possession the promised land from the Nephilims/giants cities but they WERE AFRAID because of their 7 nations enemies seizes 10-12 feet tall and their tall cities walls. God had told them He would go before them and fight their enemies for them but they didn't believe He would do that for them and God was so angry at them.
So, God led them the through the Wilderness or desert way without facing many giants nations for 40 yrs and finally, they reach the promised land, but because of UNBELIEF God did NOT allow Most of them enter the land. If they had believed in God's promises and TRUST Him, the children of Israel could have conquered the Giants and took over their cities in no a few years time.
Israel is still a nation today! When Christ returns as King of kings He and His Jews and gentile believers will RULE in Jerusalem over ALL nations.
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2019 18:12:34 GMT -5
No stars will fall. The earth does not have the mass to attract a star. Stars scattered throughout the universe have no place to 'fall'. Does this mean that the moon has already given up its light? ~~ An Eclipse will block the sun from given up its light.
How will the sun be darkened without ceasing to radiate electromagnetic energy? ~~ An Eclipse of the sun be darkened and everything be normal but no sunlight.Your explanations fall flat. Why didn't you quote my WHOLE post? why just part of it, where is the rest of it?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2019 18:30:22 GMT -5
He doesn't feel it moving, so maybe he thinks you wouldn't feel it stopping. has the earth ever moved for Wally? That night when he was coming home drunk.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2019 18:32:02 GMT -5
You've a poor memory. You said you were threw with me! In that case you both should have ended up in the same place.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 18:34:48 GMT -5
The bible claims a number of things that are just not true. Genesis 22:17 - I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies. God blessed Abraham and multiply his race of as the 12 tribes of Israel as a nation and there are millions of Jews still exist around the world today! God Yahweh told the children to enter and take the possession the promised land from the Nephilims/giants cities but they WERE AFRAID because of their 7 nations enemies seizes 10-12 feet tall and their tall cities walls. God had told them He would go before them and fight their enemies for them but they didn't believe He would do that for them and God was so angry at them.
So, God led them the through the Wilderness or desert way without facing many giants nations for 40 yrs and finally, they reach the promised land, but because of UNBELIEF God did NOT allow Most of them enter the land. If they had believed in God's promises and TRUST Him, the children of Israel could have conquered the Giants and took over their cities in no a few years time.
Israel is still a nation today! When Christ returns as King of kings He and His Jews and gentile believers will RULE in Jerusalem over ALL nations.
God said that Israel shall always be until there is no more sun, moon or stars. Jeremiah 31 35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2019 18:36:19 GMT -5
The Jews know their OT religion, but it stops there. They didn’t receive or believe in Jesus as their Messiah or Saviour, thus they have to come to that point just like all people do. It’s not about Jews versus Gentiles or Jews versus Christians and hasn’t been since Jesus came to earth circa 6 B.C. Yes I realize that. But have Christians ever stopped to think about why they have taken Hebrew prophecies and reinterpreted them? They aren't Christian prophecies. They were never meant to be Christian prophecies. Jesus was a Jew/Hebrew that believed the Mosaic law should be observed. He never came to start a new church. He was trying to get his people to get back to the ways of old because he thought the priests in the temple were corrupting the Mosaic law. So taking Hebrew prophecies that clearly meant something very different to them and making them something else just because you're Christian really doesn't make much sense to me and it's actually quite insulting to the Jews. And sometimes they weren't even prophesies at all.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2019 19:11:46 GMT -5
You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling. I do not have strong desire to tell others they are wrong. There are many people here who I have never told they are wrong about anything. What I have a very strong desire for is truth and to expose falsehoods. And my strong desire is not for religious truth but rather for real truth. Real truth stands up to scrutiny. Religious truth doesn’t. Real truth is universal like the laws of nature. Religious truth isn’t. We can see that here because every time a believer claims a religious truth and I challenge it, the religious truth falls flat. Whether it’s the religious believer’s claim that God has spoken to them, or their claims that God Has been seen by them, the claims do not stand up to scrutiny as real truths should. There are countless religious truths many of them contradicting many other religious truths. But none of them are real truths. Each religion has its own religious truths. There are even different religious truths within the same religions. The 2x2s have their own religious truths, one of which was that only 2x2s could go to heaven. This was a religious truth but it wasn’t a real truth. It was in fact a real falsehood. We even see different religious truths presented here continually among people who claim to believe in the same God and to have the same holy sprit dwelling within. Some claim that the truth is that God is three persons Others claim that the truth is that he is one. These are both religious truths but none of them are the real truth. The real truth is that he is none. Matt10 Thank you, Matt.
You said that so very well!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 19:32:30 GMT -5
I do not have strong desire to tell others they are wrong. There are many people here who I have never told they are wrong about anything. What I have a very strong desire for is truth and to expose falsehoods. And my strong desire is not for religious truth but rather for real truth. Real truth stands up to scrutiny. Religious truth doesn’t. Real truth is universal like the laws of nature. Religious truth isn’t. We can see that here because every time a believer claims a religious truth and I challenge it, the religious truth falls flat. Whether it’s the religious believer’s claim that God has spoken to them, or their claims that God Has been seen by them, the claims do not stand up to scrutiny as real truths should. There are countless religious truths many of them contradicting many other religious truths. But none of them are real truths. Each religion has its own religious truths. There are even different religious truths within the same religions. The 2x2s have their own religious truths, one of which was that only 2x2s could go to heaven. This was a religious truth but it wasn’t a real truth. It was in fact a real falsehood. We even see different religious truths presented here continually among people who claim to believe in the same God and to have the same holy sprit dwelling within. Some claim that the truth is that God is three persons Others claim that the truth is that he is one. These are both religious truths but none of them are the real truth. The real truth is that he is none. Matt10 Thank you, Matt.
You said that so very well!Im glad to hear that you are both seeking TRUTH! I always encourage growth!I would suggest that you start with the one who is truth!
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2019 19:39:49 GMT -5
Sounds like you are suggesting the willing suspension of disbelief in order to learn the truth. That does not seem like a good way to learn the truth. What I highly suggest is becoming acquainted with TRUTH , so that you will know truth. Personal relationship. What I find confusing, to say the least, -is that each one who is a "believer" here on TMB and claims a "personal relationship" with god and because of that THEY know the TRUTH!
Yet those same people disagree as to what that TRUTH is!
But let a "non-believer" disagree with them and they yell "foul!" and want us thrown off the board!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 19:43:16 GMT -5
What I highly suggest is becoming acquainted with TRUTH , so that you will know truth. Personal relationship. What I find confusing, to say the least, -is that each one who is a "believer" here on TMB and claims a "personal relationship" with god and because of that THEY know the TRUTH!
Yet those same people disagree as to what that TRUTH is!
But let a "non-believer" disagree with them and they yell "foul!" and want us thrown off the board!That is so last WEAK!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2019 19:59:11 GMT -5
What I highly suggest is becoming acquainted with TRUTH , so that you will know truth. Personal relationship. What I find confusing, to say the least, -is that each one who is a "believer" here on TMB and claims a "personal relationship" with god and because of that THEY know the TRUTH!
Yet those same people disagree as to what that TRUTH is!
But let a "non-believer" disagree with them and they yell "foul!" and want us thrown off the board!My wife experienced a truth about eight years ago -- revealed to her while in the hospital. It was that the couple who lived upstairs from us had a fight. Theo had been locked out of their apartment by Lillian because he was threatening to hit her over the head with an iron frying pan. Once she put him out, she threw the pan out the window at him. But then she couldn't leave the house because he stayed outside the door with the frying pan, ready to hit her with it when she tried to leave the house. Finally the police came, and they took Theo away, and Lillian left with the two little kids and never came back. That was just before I graduated from college and we moved to our townhouse in Carson City. She never forgot how sorry she was for Theo, because Lillian yelled at him endlessly, though we never knew exactly why. No, I didn't make up one word of this. Her memory of that event was as clear as her memory of the day we were married, and she couldn't understand how I'd totally forgotten about it. It was absolute truth to her. What difference, none of us were any worse off for having no concept whatever of how she knew of that dramatic time in her life.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2019 20:40:16 GMT -5
What I find confusing, to say the least, -is that each one who is a "believer" here on TMB and claims a "personal relationship" with god and because of that THEY know the TRUTH!
Yet those same people disagree as to what that TRUTH is!
But let a "non-believer" disagree with them and they yell "foul!" and want us thrown off the board! That is so last WEAK! What!? You mean that THIS "week" that you Christians are all agreeing with one another?
Well, I swan...! Sounds as if there are miracles after all!
Praised be!
Hallelujah.
May the force be with you!
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Post by Dan on Dec 23, 2019 2:24:22 GMT -5
Faith is the evidence of what a person has already chosen to believe is true. Faith is not an excuse for believing, but the result of believing. Faith comes by hearing God's word (Romans 10:17), is spiritually revealed (1 Corinthians 2:10), teaches all things (John 14:26), and guides to all truth (John 16:13). Faith isn't established in miraculous things, miracles were simply the result of faith, but faith originates from that still small voice (1 Kings 19:12).
So looking for physical proof of God is not the evidence believers rely on to establish truth, although the invisible things of God are understood by the observation of what exist (Romans 1:20). Faith is not blind, in fact its self-evident, people choose to trust what's been made known through his word, and the Word was literally made known & manifested among us.
Could it all be some elaborate hoax, a series of remarkable coordinated lies, masterminded by geniuses through the centuries, with no contradictions or evidence of falsehood, having a secret agenda of self-aggrandizing by people who were motivated to perpetuate something that brought hardship, persecution, and death upon themselves? Possibly, but not very likely. Faith is not challenged by the absence of verifiable objective evidence because its not substantiated
My point is ................. Oh, who am I kidding, I have no point Of course I haven’t been asking for physical proof of God. I’ve simply been asking people to provide evidence to support the claims they have made here. And none of those I have challenged have been able to provide any. If I remember correctly you made claims about having had a revelation from God that the bible was true but when I pressed you for details of this revelation you claimed to have had you couldn’t provide me with any. None whatsoever. Zilch. Zero. Which would strike any reasonable person as odd. Instead you tried to deflect from this this challenge by attempting to change the debate to one about the omnipotence of your God. And here I’m merely asking STR to provide details of the encounters she claims to have had with God when, in her words, she claimed to have seen God twice. It’s hardly unreasonable to ask someone what they actually saw when they claim to have seen something. But so far we have not received a single detail. Which again seems very odd if such an encounter really did occur. If I have to decide between whether the claim is false or whether it is true the absence of any evidence to support it thus far demonstrates that it is more likely to be false which, ironically, would tend to support my argument that the God she claims to have seen isn’t really there. You claim that faith isn’t blind but only a completely blind person could claim to have seen something and not know any details whatsoever of what they had seen. When my great uncle john went partially blind he could still make out shapes and was able to tell from the shape what a particular thing was. He could tell an open door from a closed one and a table from a chair. However here we have someone who claims to have seen God twice but still can’t even tell us what shape he was. As regards your point about your religion belong one elaborate hoax, I say not a hoax but merely a false set of beliefs which have been preserved due to countless generations of followers being subject to heavy religious conditioning. It’s no different to Islam, Catholicism or Judaism in that regard. We only have to look at 2x2ism to realise how easily and how quickly generations of people can be fooled. Matt10
Having a revelation is just having something revealed that was previously unknown. I don't recall having said that I had any direct revelation from God, but I do believe His Spirit reveals, teaches, and guides a person in understanding His Word, and faith comes from understanding. So in that sense, I reckon my eyes were open to biblical truth via revelation. While not having any direct physical revelation, I did point to fulfilled prophesies as evidence which supports the bible being true, but you obviously found those details unsatisfactory.
I do agree that if someone has experienced a direct physical apparition, they should be able to describe the details. Unless it was some type of indescribable phenomenon or unclear vision.
"God requires faith because it allows humans the ability to choose or reject Him. Without the ability to make choices, humanity would cease to be human as we know it. Because people can choose to have faith or not to have faith, there is a way for God to know those who have believed in Him and those who have not. Faith in God is not "blind faith" as some argue. Instead, it is a choice based on the available information."
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 23, 2019 10:06:54 GMT -5
Of course I haven’t been asking for physical proof of God. I’ve simply been asking people to provide evidence to support the claims they have made here. And none of those I have challenged have been able to provide any. If I remember correctly you made claims about having had a revelation from God that the bible was true but when I pressed you for details of this revelation you claimed to have had you couldn’t provide me with any. None whatsoever. Zilch. Zero. Which would strike any reasonable person as odd. Instead you tried to deflect from this this challenge by attempting to change the debate to one about the omnipotence of your God. And here I’m merely asking STR to provide details of the encounters she claims to have had with God when, in her words, she claimed to have seen God twice. It’s hardly unreasonable to ask someone what they actually saw when they claim to have seen something. But so far we have not received a single detail. Which again seems very odd if such an encounter really did occur. If I have to decide between whether the claim is false or whether it is true the absence of any evidence to support it thus far demonstrates that it is more likely to be false which, ironically, would tend to support my argument that the God she claims to have seen isn’t really there. You claim that faith isn’t blind but only a completely blind person could claim to have seen something and not know any details whatsoever of what they had seen. When my great uncle john went partially blind he could still make out shapes and was able to tell from the shape what a particular thing was. He could tell an open door from a closed one and a table from a chair. However here we have someone who claims to have seen God twice but still can’t even tell us what shape he was. As regards your point about your religion belong one elaborate hoax, I say not a hoax but merely a false set of beliefs which have been preserved due to countless generations of followers being subject to heavy religious conditioning. It’s no different to Islam, Catholicism or Judaism in that regard. We only have to look at 2x2ism to realise how easily and how quickly generations of people can be fooled. Matt10 Having a revelation is just having something revealed that was previously unknown. I don't recall having said that I had any direct revelation from God, but I do believe His Spirit reveals, teaches, and guides a person in understanding His Word, and faith comes from understanding. So in that sense, I reckon my eyes were open to biblical truth via revelation. While not having any direct physical revelation, I did point to fulfilled prophesies as evidence which supports the bible being true, but you obviously found those details unsatisfactory.
I do agree that if someone has experienced a direct physical apparition, they should be able to describe the details. Unless it was some type of indescribable phenomenon or unclear vision.
"God requires faith because it allows humans the ability to choose or reject Him. Without the ability to make choices, humanity would cease to be human as we know it. Because people can choose to have faith or not to have faith, there is a way for God to know those who have believed in Him and those who have not. Faith in God is not "blind faith" as some argue. Instead, it is a choice based on the available information."
Matt10 and Dan, I didn’t see Matt’s request to describe what I saw. If I had, at that point I likely would have repeated what my vision was for the umpteenth time on TMB. However after all the negative posting by the atheists since, I have no appetite to share the visions with you. They are on TMB somewhere or at least the one where I saw Jesus. The one where I saw the Holy Spirit was during a situation I had no control over and it’s such a personal time that I’m very reluctant to share it with anyone on TMB. So I can describe them but atheists have made me very hesitant to cast my pearls before swine.
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Post by matisse on Dec 23, 2019 11:40:59 GMT -5
God appeared to me in a dream. I think it may have been one of my earliest concepts of god - an elderly, white-haired man doing laundry and spreading the freshly washed white garments across the furniture in my (first) bedroom to dry. He did not speak to me but communicated with facial expressions that he had appreciated the use of my space. He was also apologetic for taking so much of my time. After gathering his things, he left through the front door to be greeted by an expectant throng.
It was a sweet, helpful dream.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 23, 2019 11:56:58 GMT -5
Let me put it this way.
If I had still believed in the bible and god & Jesus as the "son" of god and all of that when I was in that ambulance on the way to a hospital and "saw" those bouquets of flowers by me, -I might have thought I was in a hearse on the way to the grave yard & freaked out big time!
But as it was, I just thought that particular hallucination was rather appropriate for the place but somewhat ironic. So, -I imagine whatever one already believes (or doesn't believe) would affect how they interpret such an experience.
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2019 12:00:41 GMT -5
Oh the irony!! It's their God, it's their book. You'd think they'd know more about it than you Christians who can't even make up your own god and have to steal another religions' god. I really can't understand how people have the gall to say that the Jews don't know their own religion and somehow Christians do? What's ironic is that the Jews didn't even recognize the Messiah that their own Prophets had prophesied about. If they rejected Christ, they rejected their God, they were looking for a King, not a Lamb. Christians (Gentiles) didn't steal Judaism, we simply accepted the new covenant. I guess we will find out who is right come judgement day. jmo
Maybe because he wasn't? It's Paul you should be worshiping because Jesus never was anything other than a Jew that wanted to return to more rigid Mosaic law and free his country from the Romans
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2019 12:06:17 GMT -5
What I find confusing, to say the least, -is that each one who is a "believer" here on TMB and claims a "personal relationship" with god and because of that THEY know the TRUTH!
Yet those same people disagree as to what that TRUTH is!
But let a "non-believer" disagree with them and they yell "foul!" and want us thrown off the board! That is so last WEAK! No, not really, you're doing it this week too. In fact it happens all the time on here. You all have your various revelations from God that you claim are truths and when they don't match YOUR (speaking in general here, not you personally) truth, then the other person is wrong and doesn't really have the holy spirit. It's intriguing from our point of view.
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2019 12:12:33 GMT -5
God appeared to me in a dream. I think it may have been one of my earliest concepts of god - an elderly, white-haired man doing laundry and spreading the freshly washed white garments across the furniture in my (first) bedroom to dry. He did not speak to me but communicated with facial expressions that he had appreciated the use of my space. He was also apologetic for taking so much of my time. After gathering his things, he left through the front door to be greeted by an expectant throng. It was a sweet, helpful dream. Actually I had a vision of Jesus once when I was 12. It was so real. I was sitting in a chair in the living room in the middle of the night and I was absolutely sure I was talking with Jesus. I slept walked and it turned out it was one of those times, so I was also just dreaming. It wasn't long after that episode that I quit professing.
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Post by Dan on Dec 23, 2019 12:22:14 GMT -5
So I can describe them but atheists have made me very hesitant to cast my pearls before swine.
Probably wise .. People are very skeptical about those who attest that they have seen or heard Christ. Even people who claim to have seen aliens are mocked. I only know the bible's description; "He hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him" (Isaiah 53:2). And according to Isaiah 50:6, he had a beard..
I'm going to say something that might be construed as being very controversial here; Merry Christmas
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