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Post by Annan on Dec 22, 2019 12:29:05 GMT -5
I found the story that Jill Bolte Taylor told about what she was observing while having her stroke was interesting. I saw that too! Mind blowing. Literally.
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 12:37:49 GMT -5
You broke it Shaz. You threw it at me! I haven’t yet! You've a poor memory. You said you were threw with me!
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 12:44:26 GMT -5
CWSM please give extra careful thought to my posts. I did not even go as far as suggesting leprechauns are not real. I was questioning the validity of personal encounters made by certain people, e.g. drunks! I have never seen a leprechaun drunk. You must fulfil two conditions in order for this to happen. 1) You must be in Ireland, especially the south. 2) You must be drunk. Oh, and the leprechaun must also be drunk!
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 13:20:04 GMT -5
Not as I see it, Reebs. Sorry. If you look at some of our board members, Matt 10, RT, Snow, Dmetc, and listen to their testimonies, you will quickly conclude from what they have gone through, they have had all thoughts of Christianity and there being a God, kicked out of them. The resulting vacuum has to be replaced with something and since the idea of returning to their former beliefs is in many ways repulsive, they are only left with walking by sight (evidence/proof/understanding etc) rather than by faith. What is very telling, is that some refuse to wear the moccasins of others and insist they walk barefoot over a desert full of cacti, blindfolded! Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed. He cares.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 13:25:15 GMT -5
I have never seen a leprechaun drunk. You must fulfil two conditions in order for this to happen. 1) You must be in Ireland, especially the south. 2) You must be drunk. Oh, and the leprechaun must also be drunk! It sounds a bit like the phrase 'you need the holy spirit to be able to see'... Especially since I think you claimed leprechauns don't get drunk...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 13:54:00 GMT -5
Interesting. When we make a claim it's 'a belief'. But when you make a claim that you saw God (which the bible says is impossible btw) it's a fact? Oh the irony. You say in one sentence that God is not three entities. Yet he apparently isn't the same as Jesus and the Holy spirit so how can he be the same entity? The irony is that’s what you atheists are always hollering at theists, so it’s is fair game to turn the tide back to the atheists that are so cocksure of their wisdom!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 13:54:52 GMT -5
You've a poor memory. You said you were threw with me! Gene needs to correct our spelling then. I think I said “through” or certainly meant that!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 13:57:50 GMT -5
Interesting. When we make a claim it's 'a belief'. But when you make a claim that you saw God (which the bible says is impossible btw) it's a fact? Oh the irony. You say in one sentence that God is not three entities. Yet he apparently isn't the same as Jesus and the Holy spirit so how can he be the same entity? They are not entities, they are persons but one God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 13:59:06 GMT -5
Yes, that’s the intelligence sought from the beginning and will be sought unto the very end. The knowledge of good and evil. If you don't know the difference between good and evil, then what you do it just a puppet that can't make an informed decision. No wonder Gods don't what their followers to question. Bible says there is knowledge of the world and there is knowledge from above. You have chosen the knowledge of the world.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 14:02:10 GMT -5
Of course the Jews would need to disqualify the obvious prophesies, otherwise they'd be Christians. Yes, the Jews were looking for another earthly king, one who would physically deliver them from captivity (yet again). Even Judas thought Christ was the one who would liberate them from Roman rule. But prophecy proclaimed a spiritual deliverer, one who would defeat death, sin, and the devil. Jesus announced himself in Luke 4:18-19 when he read Isaiah's prophecy; "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," (Isaiah 61:1-2). This was the first advent, when Messiah would bring spiritual deliverance. But Christ stopped reading mid-verse for a reason, the remaining said; "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isaiah 61:2). This 'day of vengeance' did not occur at his first coming, as the Jews anticipated, but will occur at the second advent when Messiah comes in judgement. But those who rejected his Truth and sacrifice of the first advent, won't be delivered from anything at his second coming. "For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles" (Isaiah 61:8-9). In short, the Jews were looking for an earthly deliverer who would liberate them and set-up a kingdom on earth. But Jesus brought spiritual deliverance and a new covenant that liberated us from death (sin).
You don't need to believe the prophecies, but it certainly seems evident to me that Psalms 22 & Isaiah 53 can only be describing Christ, there is simply is no other that fits the detailed description. The only way to explain it away is to somehow twist the obvious characterization of Messiah and insinuate that its talking about someone or something else. "He was despised and rejected by men" makes the Jews part of the prophecy.
Oh the irony!! It's their God, it's their book. You'd think they'd know more about it than you Christians who can't even make up your own god and have to steal another religions' god. I really can't understand how people have the gall to say that the Jews don't know their own religion and somehow Christians do? Not their book. It’s God’s book. Also God rendered them with unseeing eyes and nonunderstanding hearts, lest he should have to heal them. He will save the remnant in the last days according to the Bible. But their disobedience cause their inability to see and understanding. It does for everyone.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 14:11:53 GMT -5
Interesting. When we make a claim it's 'a belief'. But when you make a claim that you saw God (which the bible says is impossible btw) it's a fact? Oh the irony. You say in one sentence that God is not three entities. Yet he apparently isn't the same as Jesus and the Holy spirit so how can he be the same entity? The irony is that’s what you atheists are always hollering at theists, so it’s is fair game to turn the tide back to the atheists that are so cocksure of their wisdom! It's you that's been posting with caps on lately. You just love playing the persecution card don't you. I am beginning to think that it wouldn't be a good day if you couldn't. So glad we make your day so often...
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 14:13:10 GMT -5
Interesting. When we make a claim it's 'a belief'. But when you make a claim that you saw God (which the bible says is impossible btw) it's a fact? Oh the irony. You say in one sentence that God is not three entities. Yet he apparently isn't the same as Jesus and the Holy spirit so how can he be the same entity? They are not entities, they are persons but one God. What is the difference between separate entities or separate persons? It's 3 something being passed off as 1.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 14:14:32 GMT -5
If you don't know the difference between good and evil, then what you do it just a puppet that can't make an informed decision. No wonder Gods don't what their followers to question. Bible says there is knowledge of the world and there is knowledge from above. You have chosen the knowledge of the world. Well of course I've chosen knowledge of the world. It's the only one that can be observed, replicated and useful in the natural world. Yes, I know, you don't agree.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 14:15:27 GMT -5
Oh the irony!! It's their God, it's their book. You'd think they'd know more about it than you Christians who can't even make up your own god and have to steal another religions' god. I really can't understand how people have the gall to say that the Jews don't know their own religion and somehow Christians do? Not their book. It’s God’s book. Also God rendered them with unseeing eyes and nonunderstanding hearts, lest he should have to heal them. He will save the remnant in the last days according to the Bible. But their disobedience cause their inability to see and understanding. It does for everyone. Right!! You really don't see the irony in what you write do you.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 14:15:29 GMT -5
The irony is that’s what you atheists are always hollering at theists, so it’s is fair game to turn the tide back to the atheists that are so cocksure of their wisdom! It's you that's been posting with caps on lately. You just love playing the persecution card don't you. I am beginning to think that it wouldn't be a good day if you couldn't. So glad we make your day so often... I’m sorry but I’ve explained many times when I used caps it is because I’m using my iPhone and find no other way to bring attention to the main points of my posts. I’m not hollering. I understand some people forget because I’ve done the same thing with Nathan’s red posts and DMmgood’s big bold blue posts.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 14:18:09 GMT -5
They are not entities, they are persons but one God. What is the difference between separate entities or separate persons? It's 3 something being passed off as 1. As nouns the difference between person and entity is that person is person while entity is that which has a distinct existence as an individual unit often used for organisations which have no physical form. From Wiki-diff
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 14:19:52 GMT -5
Not their book. It’s God’s book. Also God rendered them with unseeing eyes and nonunderstanding hearts, lest he should have to heal them. He will save the remnant in the last days according to the Bible. But their disobedience cause their inability to see and understanding. It does for everyone. Right!! You really don't see the irony in what you write do you. Youve got the ironies today!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 14:23:26 GMT -5
Not their book. It’s God’s book. Also God rendered them with unseeing eyes and nonunderstanding hearts, lest he should have to heal them. He will save the remnant in the last days according to the Bible. But their disobedience cause their inability to see and understanding. It does for everyone. Right!! You really don't see the irony in what you write do you. The Jews know their OT religion, but it stops there. They didn’t receive or believe in Jesus as their Messiah or Saviour, thus they have to come to that point just like all people do. It’s not about Jews versus Gentiles or Jews versus Christians and hasn’t been since Jesus came to earth circa 6 B.C.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 14:30:42 GMT -5
Right!! You really don't see the irony in what you write do you. The Jews know their OT religion, but it stops there. They didn’t receive or believe in Jesus as their Messiah or Saviour, thus they have to come to that point just like all people do. It’s not about Jews versus Gentiles or Jews versus Christians and hasn’t been since Jesus came to earth circa 6 B.C. Yes I realize that. But have Christians ever stopped to think about why they have taken Hebrew prophecies and reinterpreted them? They aren't Christian prophecies. They were never meant to be Christian prophecies. Jesus was a Jew/Hebrew that believed the Mosaic law should be observed. He never came to start a new church. He was trying to get his people to get back to the ways of old because he thought the priests in the temple were corrupting the Mosaic law. So taking Hebrew prophecies that clearly meant something very different to them and making them something else just because you're Christian really doesn't make much sense to me and it's actually quite insulting to the Jews.
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Post by matisse on Dec 22, 2019 15:08:36 GMT -5
They are not entities, they are persons but one God. What is the difference between separate entities or separate persons? It's 3 something being passed off as 1. Poor Yahweh....He shakes polytheism only to be dragged back into it by Christians!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 15:15:13 GMT -5
The Jews know their OT religion, but it stops there. They didn’t receive or believe in Jesus as their Messiah or Saviour, thus they have to come to that point just like all people do. It’s not about Jews versus Gentiles or Jews versus Christians and hasn’t been since Jesus came to earth circa 6 B.C. Yes I realize that. But have Christians ever stopped to think about why they have taken Hebrew prophecies and reinterpreted them? They aren't Christian prophecies. They were never meant to be Christian prophecies. Jesus was a Jew/Hebrew that believed the Mosaic law should be observed. He never came to start a new church. He was trying to get his people to get back to the ways of old because he thought the priests in the temple were corrupting the Mosaic law. So taking Hebrew prophecies that clearly meant something very different to them and making them something else just because you're Christian really doesn't make much sense to me and it's actually quite insulting to the Jews. The temple sacrifices, etc finished when Jesus was crucified. He said he came to “fulfill” the law and he did. The priesthood of Levi was change when Jesus ascended in to heaven with his blood sacrifice as the Chief Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. The laws of circumcision became laws of cleanliness even unto the Gentile nations thus babies being circumscribed before they’re sent home from the hospital. Of course, still a parental choice, but done for future health reasons. Other laws have tried to have been absorbed into the trespassing against neighbors, etc. But time has dulled the morals of so many, so many past trespasses have become more less expected norms. With world leaders like Trump, those original Mosaic laws are further annihilated or defaced. The prophecies I’ve talked about lately have been brought to current times by Jews who have become Christ believers. As I’ve thought most my life, history repeats itself. So many prophecies you think apply only to the Jews of OT days are always current. That which controls or affects the Jews affects the whole world. Every fall of an empire has been connected to how they treated or were with the Israel nation. It will be so, clear unto the judgment of the sheep and goats immediately on Jesus’ second coming. Jesus will separate them by nations in how they’ve treated the Israelis during the 7 year tribulation. America is falling as a great Empire at present. Because of past behaviors that are a scourge before God. A seer has seen tsunami waves nearly obliterate both eastern and western shores of the US. We know the icebergs are melting. 2023 has been slated to be the year for massive climate change destruction. The seer who’s visioned these tsunamis says a great change is coming to the US in the year 2020. He’s had about 14-16 such visions and they all are pretty much the same with maybe minor changes. The last one or two he’s heard a voice say three times, “ It will change.” A year ago he saw waves of 80-100 ft high. Just a short time ago a 75 foot wave was seen just off the shore of California. We know the coasts are losing inches and feet to the water every year. He’s seen great destruction of life, the population of the US will fall due to catastrophic happenings. We saw a considerable loss of farmland, cattle this past year across the Midwest due to catastrophic snowstorms then flooding. This is that which does and can sustain life . These things are in the Bible. It’s always current, though I know few people know that or want to believe that.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 15:18:46 GMT -5
What is the difference between separate entities or separate persons? It's 3 something being passed off as 1. Poor Yahweh....He shakes polytheism only to be dragged back into it by Christians! You’ve forgotten you don’t believe in Yahweh so why the pity.
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Post by matisse on Dec 22, 2019 15:26:43 GMT -5
Poor Yahweh....He shakes polytheism only to be dragged back into it by Christians! You’ve forgotten you don’t believe in Yahweh so why the pity. You're right, I don't believe in Yahweh. I believe that Yahweh is a character in ancient Hebrew writings who demanded to be the only god. Christians absconded with him and dragged him back to polytheism. Poor Yahweh!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 15:28:46 GMT -5
Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed. He cares. 🧀
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Post by Dan on Dec 22, 2019 16:06:05 GMT -5
People don’t really have revelations from God and neither do they really see God. Such claims are false although that doesn’t mean that the believer doesn’t honestly and sincerely believe them. It’s just that the believer is suffering from religious delusion which causes them to believe things that aren’t true. Obviously religious believers don’t call it religious delusion. They call it faith. So when you tell me that my problem is that I don’t have faith to believe you are correct. I don’t have faith. I don’t have religious delusion. I am no longer religiously deluded although I recognise that I once was. When I had faith I believed all sorts of crazy things. So I don’t see lack of faith as a problem. I see having faith as being a problem. Faith makes you believe things that aren’t true. Faith is an excuse for believing in things that aren’t true. Faith makes you blind. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to be a believer and continually be asked to provide evidence to support things that you believe to be true but you cannot provide the evidence for because it just isn’t there. I suspect it’s rather like being a member of the flat earth society. You can see why 2x2 workers are smart not to allow questions at gospel meetings. If you are making claims that just aren’t true or that don’t add up it is better not to make them in a public forum where they are subject to scrutiny. Making unsupported claims in public forums can leave one looking very foolish if one is challenged on them and can’t provide evidence to support them. Faith is preserved best in environments where it isn’t challenged and among those who are susceptible to believing things without evidence. Matt10
Faith is the evidence of what a person has already chosen to believe is true. Faith is not an excuse for believing, but the result of believing. Faith comes by hearing God's word (Romans 10:17), is spiritually revealed (1 Corinthians 2:10), teaches all things (John 14:26), and guides to all truth (John 16:13). Faith isn't established in miraculous things, miracles were simply the result of faith, but faith originates from that still small voice (1 Kings 19:12).
So looking for physical proof of God is not the evidence believers rely on to establish truth, although the invisible things of God are understood by the observation of what exist (Romans 1:20). Faith is not blind, in fact its self-evident, people choose to trust what's been made known through his word, and the Word was literally made known & manifested among us.
Could it all be some elaborate hoax, a series of remarkable coordinated lies, masterminded by geniuses through the centuries, with no contradictions or evidence of falsehood, having a secret agenda of self-aggrandizing by people who were motivated to perpetuate something that brought hardship, persecution, and death upon themselves? Possibly, but not very likely. Faith is not challenged by the absence of verifiable objective evidence because its not substantiated by physical evidence.
My point is ................. Oh, who am I kidding, I have no point
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 16:18:19 GMT -5
You must fulfil two conditions in order for this to happen. 1) You must be in Ireland, especially the south. 2) You must be drunk. Oh, and the leprechaun must also be drunk! It sounds a bit like the phrase 'you need the holy spirit to be able to see'... Especially since I think you claimed leprechauns don't get drunk... It was Curls who said he had never seen a leprechaun drunk. If they drink Guinness the more than likely do get drunk from time to time?
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Post by Dan on Dec 22, 2019 16:47:32 GMT -5
Of course the Jews would need to disqualify the obvious prophesies, otherwise they'd be Christians. Yes, the Jews were looking for another earthly king, one who would physically deliver them from captivity (yet again). Even Judas thought Christ was the one who would liberate them from Roman rule. But prophecy proclaimed a spiritual deliverer, one who would defeat death, sin, and the devil. Jesus announced himself in Luke 4:18-19 when he read Isaiah's prophecy; "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," (Isaiah 61:1-2). This was the first advent, when Messiah would bring spiritual deliverance. But Christ stopped reading mid-verse for a reason, the remaining said; "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isaiah 61:2). This 'day of vengeance' did not occur at his first coming, as the Jews anticipated, but will occur at the second advent when Messiah comes in judgement. But those who rejected his Truth and sacrifice of the first advent, won't be delivered from anything at his second coming. "For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles" (Isaiah 61:8-9). In short, the Jews were looking for an earthly deliverer who would liberate them and set-up a kingdom on earth. But Jesus brought spiritual deliverance and a new covenant that liberated us from death (sin).
You don't need to believe the prophecies, but it certainly seems evident to me that Psalms 22 & Isaiah 53 can only be describing Christ, there is simply is no other that fits the detailed description. The only way to explain it away is to somehow twist the obvious characterization of Messiah and insinuate that its talking about someone or something else. "He was despised and rejected by men" makes the Jews part of the prophecy.
Oh the irony!! It's their God, it's their book. You'd think they'd know more about it than you Christians who can't even make up your own god and have to steal another religions' god. I really can't understand how people have the gall to say that the Jews don't know their own religion and somehow Christians do?
What's ironic is that the Jews didn't even recognize the Messiah that their own Prophets had prophesied about. If they rejected Christ, they rejected their God, they were looking for a King, not a Lamb. Christians (Gentiles) didn't steal Judaism, we simply accepted the new covenant. I guess we will find out who is right come judgement day. jmo
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 16:57:50 GMT -5
Faith is the evidence of what a person has already chosen to believe is true. Faith is not an excuse for believing, but the result of believing. Faith comes by hearing God's word (Romans 10:17), is spiritually revealed (1 Corinthians 2:10), teaches all things (John 14:26), and guides to all truth (John 16:13). Faith isn't established in miraculous things, miracles were simply the result of faith, but faith originates from that still small voice (1 Kings 19:12).
So looking for physical proof of God is not the evidence believers rely on to establish truth, although the invisible things of God are understood by the observation of what exist (Romans 1:20). Faith is not blind, in fact its self-evident, people choose to trust what's been made known through his word, and the Word was literally made known & manifested among us.
Could it all be some elaborate hoax, a series of remarkable coordinated lies, masterminded by geniuses through the centuries, with no contradictions or evidence of falsehood, having a secret agenda of self-aggrandizing by people who were motivated to perpetuate something that brought hardship, persecution, and death upon themselves? Possibly, but not very likely. Faith is not challenged by the absence of verifiable objective evidence because its not substantiated
My point is ................. Oh, who am I kidding, I have no point Of course I haven’t been asking for physical proof of God. I’ve simply been asking people to provide evidence to support the claims they have made here. And none of those I have challenged have been able to provide any. If I remember correctly you made claims about having had a revelation from God that the bible was true but when I pressed you for details of this revelation you claimed to have had you couldn’t provide me with any. None whatsoever. Zilch. Zero. Which would strike any reasonable person as odd. Instead you tried to deflect from this this challenge by attempting to change the debate to one about the omnipotence of your God. And here I’m merely asking STR to provide details of the encounters she claims to have had with God when, in her words, she claimed to have seen God twice. It’s hardly unreasonable to ask someone what they actually saw when they claim to have seen something. But so far we have not received a single detail. Which again seems very odd if such an encounter really did occur. If I have to decide between whether the claim is false or whether it is true the absence of any evidence to support it thus far demonstrates that it is more likely to be false which, ironically, would tend to support my argument that the God she claims to have seen isn’t really there. You claim that faith isn’t blind but only a completely blind person could claim to have seen something and not know any details whatsoever of what they had seen. When my great uncle john went partially blind he could still make out shapes and was able to tell from the shape what a particular thing was. He could tell an open door from a closed one and a table from a chair. However here we have someone who claims to have seen God twice but still can’t even tell us what shape he was. As regards your point about your religion belong one elaborate hoax, I say not a hoax but merely a false set of beliefs which have been preserved due to countless generations of followers being subject to heavy religious conditioning. It’s no different to Islam, Catholicism or Judaism in that regard. We only have to look at 2x2ism to realise how easily and how quickly generations of people can be fooled. Matt10
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