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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 6:17:12 GMT -5
It is unsurprising that you vote it down because you were one of those I referred to who had boldly claimed to have had a revelation in which God taught you that the bible was true but when I pressed you to provide details of this revelation you couldn’t provide any details whatsoever. When I put it to you that the revelation you claimed to have had was merely a figment of your imagination you had no response. Your approach was that it was up to me to prove that you didn’t have a revelation which is just silly. It’s a classic deflection tactic used by believers to avoid providing evidence to support a claim which should be available if the claim was true. But no evidence is provided because no evidence exists and no evidence exists because the claim isn’t true. No doubt you would also fail to provide the evidence that you claim exists in your response here just as STR will fail to provide the details I have requested that would demonstrate that she really did see God. You will see a pattern here I’m sure. People don’t really have revelations from God and neither do they really see God. Such claims are false although that doesn’t mean that the believer doesn’t honestly and sincerely believe them. It’s just that the believer is suffering from religious delusion which causes them to believe things that aren’t true. Obviously religious believers don’t call it religious delusion. They call it faith. So when you tell me that my problem is that I don’t have faith to believe you are correct. I don’t have faith. I don’t have religious delusion. I am no longer religiously deluded although I recognise that I once was. When I had faith I believed all sorts of crazy things. So I don’t see lack of faith as a problem. I see having faith as being a problem. Faith makes you believe things that aren’t true. Faith is an excuse for believing in things that aren’t true. Faith makes you blind. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to be a believer and continually be asked to provide evidence to support things that you believe to be true but you cannot provide the evidence for because it just isn’t there. I suspect it’s rather like being a member of the flat earth society. You can see why 2x2 workers are smart not to allow questions at gospel meetings. If you are making claims that just aren’t true or that don’t add up it is better not to make them in a public forum where they are subject to scrutiny. Making unsupported claims in public forums can leave one looking very foolish if one is challenged on them and can’t provide evidence to support them. Faith is preserved best in environments where it isn’t challenged and among those who are susceptible to believing things without evidence. Matt10 You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling. Not as I see it, Reebs. Sorry. If you look at some of our board members, Matt 10, RT, Snow, Dmetc, and listen to their testimonies, you will quickly conclude from what they have gone through, they have had all thoughts of Christianity and there being a God, kicked out of them. The resulting vacuum has to be replaced with something and since the idea of returning to their former beliefs is in many ways repulsive, they are only left with walking by sight (evidence/proof/understanding etc) rather than by faith. What is very telling, is that some refuse to wear the moccasins of others and insist they walk barefoot over a desert full of cacti, blindfolded!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 6:34:56 GMT -5
You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling. Not as I see it, Reebs. Sorry. If you look at some of our board members, Matt 10, RT, Snow, Dmetc, and listen to their testimonies, you will quickly conclude from what they have gone through, they have had all thoughts of Christianity and there being a God, kicked out of them. The resulting vacuum has to be replaced with something and since the idea of returning to their former beliefs is in many ways repulsive, they are only left with walking by sight (evidence/proof/understanding etc) rather than by faith. What is very telling, is that some refuse to wear the moccasins of others and insist they walk barefoot over a desert full of cacti, blindfolded! Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed.
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 6:46:22 GMT -5
Voting a thumbs down here. Much evidence,and personal testimonies have been presented. YOUR problem is it takes faith to receive- sadly you aren’t doing anything to help out with your own blindness. Sounds like you are suggesting the willing suspension of disbelief in order to learn the truth. That does not seem like a good way to learn the truth. What I highly suggest is becoming acquainted with TRUTH , so that you will know truth. Personal relationship.
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 6:51:56 GMT -5
Not as I see it, Reebs. Sorry. If you look at some of our board members, Matt 10, RT, Snow, Dmetc, and listen to their testimonies, you will quickly conclude from what they have gone through, they have had all thoughts of Christianity and there being a God, kicked out of them. The resulting vacuum has to be replaced with something and since the idea of returning to their former beliefs is in many ways repulsive, they are only left with walking by sight (evidence/proof/understanding etc) rather than by faith. What is very telling, is that some refuse to wear the moccasins of others and insist they walk barefoot over a desert full of cacti, blindfolded! Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed. Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour? We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? For recap purposes, this is what you said in response to Matt's post. You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling.My response to yours is in the above quote. Go away and think about it. Mirror, mirror, on the wall.............who is the................?
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 6:55:43 GMT -5
Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed. Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour! We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? Who is we? Very odd indeed. No thank you on your opinions either!
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 7:00:18 GMT -5
Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour! We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? Who is we? Very odd indeed. No thank you on your opinions either! The first 'we' is you and I. The second 'we' is a plural word applied in a singular sense (commonly done), inferred from the preceding sentence. You haven't been through to the mirror yet? Just so there is no confusion, the term 'you' is singularly applied.
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 7:02:14 GMT -5
Who is we? Very odd indeed. No thank you on your opinions either! The first 'we' is you and I. The second 'we' is a plural word applied in a singular sense (commonly done), inferred from the preceding sentence. You haven't been through to the mirror yet? Just so there is no confusion, the term 'you' is singularly applied. No thank you Mountain!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 7:28:40 GMT -5
Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed. Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour? We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? For recap purposes, this is what you said in response to Matt's post. You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling.My response to yours is in the above quote. Go away and think about it. Mirror, mirror, on the wall.............who is the................? Yes- please find a mirror and tape the highlighted portion above on to it!
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Post by rational on Dec 22, 2019 7:40:50 GMT -5
Exodus 33:11 - And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.I assume this was the verse you referenced. How does 'The LORD' become 'God the Son'? I’m not going into that with you. It’s been discussed many times already. But the only clear answer is to redefine the words (suddenly the words "The LORD" means "God the Son") is to attempt to address what is clearly a contradiction in the bible.
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 8:23:13 GMT -5
Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour? We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? For recap purposes, this is what you said in response to Matt's post. You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling.My response to yours is in the above quote. Go away and think about it. Mirror, mirror, on the wall.............who is the................? Yes- please find a mirror and tape the highlighted portion above on to it! Many thanks for the kind invitation Reebs. Good of you to think of me. However, I don't know where you stay and would it be really financially viable for me to travel to your house and do this for you? I mean, the likelihood is there is someone far closer to you that can do this for you? Nevertheless the kind thought is very much appreciated!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 8:25:44 GMT -5
Yes- please find a mirror and tape the highlighted portion above on to it! Many thanks for the kind invitation Reebs. Good of you to think of me. However, I don't know where you stay and would it be really financially viable for me to travel to your house and do this for you? I mean, the likelihood is there is someone far closer to you that can do this for you? Nevertheless the kind thought is very much appreciated! Well good news for you- the task is highly attainable for you to complete in the comfort of your own home!
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 8:37:03 GMT -5
Many thanks for the kind invitation Reebs. Good of you to think of me. However, I don't know where you stay and would it be really financially viable for me to travel to your house and do this for you? I mean, the likelihood is there is someone far closer to you that can do this for you? Nevertheless the kind thought is very much appreciated! Well good news for you- the task is highly attainable for you to complete in the comfort of your own home! I understand that, but I would have to send it to you. There's postage costs, etc. What about the guy next door to you? Is he a bit of a handyman? Oh Reebs, Reebs, Reebs, if only things were simpler?
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2019 11:16:06 GMT -5
Dan, -you must not understand what atheists believe and don't believe if you think that there are any "prophecies" in the bible which would constitute "evidence that no atheist can refute.
Aren't you aware that there are many "prophecies" in many other religious book don't accept either? Why? Because I don't accept prophecies period. Neither do I believe in any of the multitude of other religious books or their gods!
BTW, It isn't just "atheists" who refute what Isaiah 53 means..
Check out Tovia Singer Rabbi. Tovia Singer is an orthodox rabbi, the founder and director of Outreach Judaism. Here is one of his articles on that very subject Isaiah 53
Why did Isaiah 53 emerge as the most debated chapter in the Jewish Scriptures? Christians are so convinced that Jesus is the messiah, they are utterly astounded that the Jews, of all people, consider this claim preposterous.
Christians are bewildered by this rejection because it appears so obvious to them that every aspect of Jesus’ life—from his miraculous conception to his crucifixion and resurrection—was clearly predicted in the Jewish Scriptures. They wonder why the Jews then fail to embrace Jesus as their messiah.
Can’t they grasp that the prophecies in their own Bible predict that the messiah would suffer and die and then rise from the grave? How can a people who produced so many Nobel Prize winners be so dense? Are they just plain stubborn? Why then did the Jews reject the claim that the messiah would suffer and die for the sins of the world?
The answer is quite simple: Jewish messianic expectations are firmly rooted in hundreds of prophecies recorded throughout the Hebrew Bible. And Jews who are anticipating a messiah are not looking for anyone remotely like Jesus. They are awaiting the messiah who will destroy the enemies of God, usher in worldwide peace, the universal knowledge of God, the ingathering of the exiles, the resurrection of the dead, and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.
Who then was Jesus?
While it is impossible to answer this question with any certainty because no contemporaneous historian mentioned Jesus, it is possible that he was one of hundreds—perhaps thousands—of obscure, itinerant preachers during the first century who came from the backwoods of the Galilee, wound up on the wrong side of the law, and was summarily executed by the empire. He then would have been one of hundreds of thousands of Jews who were crucified by the Romans during the turbulent first century. For Jews, calling Jesus the messiah and God, Creator of the universe, is foolish and blasphemous.
But doesn’t Isaiah 53, which Christians frequently cite, predict that the messiah would be tortured and killed for the sins of mankind? The answer to this question is simple as well: the messiah is never mentioned in Isaiah 53. Look it up for yourself!
As you will see armed with only a Bible and Rabbi Tovia Singer’s two-part audio program and written teachings on this chapter, originally this passage had nothing to do with a future messiah.
This chapter was ripped out of context and key words were mistranslated. Prior to the advent of Christianity, there was not a single prediction by anyone that the messiah would be executed for the sins of mankind. The apostle Paul answered this- Romans 11:25- Go ahead and read that entire chapter 11 of Romans- you will find the answer there. I always find it rather comic when people keep telling me to read this or that piece of scripture as if I hadn't already read it many times!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 11:34:57 GMT -5
Mountain- you seem to have a need to speak for others- very odd indeed. Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour? We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? For recap purposes, this is what you said in response to Matt's post. You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling.My response to yours is in the above quote. Go away and think about it. Mirror, mirror, on the wall.............who is the................? Your mirror broken?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 11:37:08 GMT -5
I’m not going into that with you. It’s been discussed many times already. But the only clear answer is to redefine the words (suddenly the words "The LORD" means "God the Son") is to attempt to address what is clearly a contradiction in the bible. Nathan has already given a researched theological answer. You won’t understand it either.
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Post by mountain on Dec 22, 2019 11:37:57 GMT -5
Perhaps your apparent need to speak down to others, in a condescending manner (which has very recently been highlighted), goes some way to explaining my 'odd' behaviour? We both gave our respective observations on Matt 10s posts. You were standing up for 'others' as you perceived it. I did likewise in response. We recently, but very temporarily mounted a halo above your head. It appears to be slipping somewhat? For recap purposes, this is what you said in response to Matt's post. You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling.My response to yours is in the above quote. Go away and think about it. Mirror, mirror, on the wall.............who is the................? Your mirror broken? You broke it Shaz. You threw it at me!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 11:38:39 GMT -5
The apostle Paul answered this- Romans 11:25- Go ahead and read that entire chapter 11 of Romans- you will find the answer there. I always find it rather comic when people keep telling me to read this or that piece of scripture as if I hadn't already read it many times!Still don’t get it though!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 11:39:02 GMT -5
You broke it Shaz. You threw it at me! I haven’t yet!
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Post by reborn on Dec 22, 2019 11:39:29 GMT -5
The apostle Paul answered this- Romans 11:25- Go ahead and read that entire chapter 11 of Romans- you will find the answer there. I always find it rather comic when people keep telling me to read this or that piece of scripture as if I hadn't already read it many times!I usually don’t read the comics!
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 11:59:46 GMT -5
See, that's what gets you into the challenges from atheists. You can't prove you saw god to anyone, not even another theist. You believe you saw god and it's real for you, I get that. But unless you can prove it to the person next to you, it's not a 'fact' for anyone but you, so therefore it's a belief. Oh doubter’s daughter! It’s more then a belief! I’ll be happy to hear when you see God, then you’ll be saying she tried to tell me. Yes I'm sure you will. Typical response.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 12:01:10 GMT -5
You sing his praises and cutsie little songs, but you refuse to see the suffering he allows. Tell a kid screaming in pain in a cancer ward that God loves him. Tell that to his helpless parents. God has a funny way of showing he cares. You say Atheists can't understand believers because they don't have the Holy Spirit. You can't see the reality of the world because of your God delusion. Just how I see it. We put blinders on horses so that they see nothing but what is in front of them. Seems to me since you atheists are so sure if yourselves you can remove your blinders now. LOL imo we once wore blinders. We have already removed ours...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2019 12:02:25 GMT -5
We put blinders on horses so that they see nothing but what is in front of them. Seems to me since you atheists are so sure if yourselves you can remove your blinders now. LOL imo we once wore blinders. We have already removed ours... Yes, that’s the intelligence sought from the beginning and will be sought unto the very end. The knowledge of good and evil.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 12:04:22 GMT -5
Atheists HAVE already removed the blinders a long time ago!
That is the reason we can see the wider scope of why & how "gods" were created!
You believe. Interesting. When we make a claim it's 'a belief'. But when you make a claim that you saw God (which the bible says is impossible btw) it's a fact? Oh the irony. You say in one sentence that God is not three entities. Yet he apparently isn't the same as Jesus and the Holy spirit so how can he be the same entity?
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 12:05:40 GMT -5
LOL imo we once wore blinders. We have already removed ours... Yes, that’s the intelligence sought from the beginning and will be sought unto the very end. The knowledge of good and evil. If you don't know the difference between good and evil, then what you do it just a puppet that can't make an informed decision. No wonder Gods don't what their followers to question.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 22, 2019 12:07:17 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell me that Leprechauns are not real? CWSM please give extra careful thought to my posts. I did not even go as far as suggesting leprechauns are not real. I was questioning the validity of personal encounters made by certain people, e.g. drunks! I have never seen a leprechaun drunk.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 12:10:11 GMT -5
This begs the question whether you really saw God or whether you were merely duped into believing that you saw God or whether you simply made the claim up. It wouldn’t be the first time believers made something up here in an attempt to provide evidence of the existence of a God for which no evidence exists. It wouldn’t be the first time a believer was duped into believing they saw something which turned out not to be the case once the claim was scrutinised closely either. You’ll recall several believers who have come here claiming they have received a revelation from God that the bible was true but once they were pressed on this they couldn’t provide a single detail of the revelation. Not one word they heard or one thing they saw. They couldn’t tell when the revelation occurred or where the revelation occurred or even how they knew the so called revelation was from God. It was clearly either a case of religious delusion or a case of just making stuff up. Of course if you really saw God you’ll be able to provide the details of the encounter. I’d suggest that such a thing would stick in your mind. People can still recount the details of the time they met people such as JFK or Elvis many years after the event. I’d therefore be interested to know the following in order to determine whether your claim is credible or whether it is unfounded like those claims made by believers about having received a revelation. 1. Where were you and what were you doing when you claim to have seen God? 2. At what time of the day do you claim to have seen God? 3. How did you know it was God that you saw and how did you know it was the Christian God and not the Islamic God or one of the other Gods? 4. What did God look like? And was he solid or opaque? 5. Did God have ears or eyes or legs or a head? 6. Was God standing or sitting or floating and if so what was he standing or sitting or floating on? 7. Did you see God in black and white or in colour and, if in colour, what colour was God? 8. Did God make any noise whatsoever when you were looking at him and, if so, what type of noise did he make? 9. Was anyone else with you when you saw God and, if so, did they also see God? 10. How long did you see God for? E.g, was it more than 10:seconds? Longer than a minute? Longer than 10 minutes? 11. What size was God? e.g. was he big or small, fat or thin, two dimensional or three dimensional? 12. Is there any other possible plausible explanation for what you saw or thought you saw? Matt10 Thanks, Matt; very good questions. I know from experience that we can "see" things that simply aren't there. Our brains are absolutely amazing!
I had read a lot about what can happen when a brain malfunctions for some organic reason. But it is a totally different ball of wax when it happens to oneself!
It was scary but also was fascinating as well.
Because at same time I was very aware that I was seeing something totally unreal I also knew that it was due to something wrong with my brain and that was scary. But it was also fascinating to see my brain acting that way!
Even when I was in the ambulance being transferred to a different hospital and "saw" a bouquet of flowers sitting beside me and another at my feet, -I thought how appropriate if I were really dead & in hearse instead of an ambulance!
But all the time I knew that they were hallucinations and that my brain was functioning just fine otherwise.
I found the story that Jill Bolte Taylor told about what she was observing while having her stroke was interesting.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 12:17:23 GMT -5
Dan, -you must not understand what atheists believe and don't believe if you think that there are any "prophecies" in the bible which would constitute "evidence that no atheist can refute.
Aren't you aware that there are many "prophecies" in many other religious book don't accept either? Why? Because I don't accept prophecies period. Neither do I believe in any of the multitude of other religious books or their gods!
BTW, It isn't just "atheists" who refute what Isaiah 53 means..
Check out Tovia Singer Rabbi. Tovia Singer is an orthodox rabbi, the founder and director of Outreach Judaism. Here is one of his articles on that very subject Isaiah 53
Why did Isaiah 53 emerge as the most debated chapter in the Jewish Scriptures? Christians are so convinced that Jesus is the messiah, they are utterly astounded that the Jews, of all people, consider this claim preposterous.
Christians are bewildered by this rejection because it appears so obvious to them that every aspect of Jesus’ life—from his miraculous conception to his crucifixion and resurrection—was clearly predicted in the Jewish Scriptures. They wonder why the Jews then fail to embrace Jesus as their messiah.
Can’t they grasp that the prophecies in their own Bible predict that the messiah would suffer and die and then rise from the grave? How can a people who produced so many Nobel Prize winners be so dense? Are they just plain stubborn? Why then did the Jews reject the claim that the messiah would suffer and die for the sins of the world?
The answer is quite simple: Jewish messianic expectations are firmly rooted in hundreds of prophecies recorded throughout the Hebrew Bible. And Jews who are anticipating a messiah are not looking for anyone remotely like Jesus. They are awaiting the messiah who will destroy the enemies of God, usher in worldwide peace, the universal knowledge of God, the ingathering of the exiles, the resurrection of the dead, and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.
Who then was Jesus?
While it is impossible to answer this question with any certainty because no contemporaneous historian mentioned Jesus, it is possible that he was one of hundreds—perhaps thousands—of obscure, itinerant preachers during the first century who came from the backwoods of the Galilee, wound up on the wrong side of the law, and was summarily executed by the empire. He then would have been one of hundreds of thousands of Jews who were crucified by the Romans during the turbulent first century. For Jews, calling Jesus the messiah and God, Creator of the universe, is foolish and blasphemous.
But doesn’t Isaiah 53, which Christians frequently cite, predict that the messiah would be tortured and killed for the sins of mankind? The answer to this question is simple as well: the messiah is never mentioned in Isaiah 53. Look it up for yourself!
As you will see armed with only a Bible and Rabbi Tovia Singer’s two-part audio program and written teachings on this chapter, originally this passage had nothing to do with a future messiah.
This chapter was ripped out of context and key words were mistranslated. Prior to the advent of Christianity, there was not a single prediction by anyone that the messiah would be executed for the sins of mankind.
Of course the Jews would need to disqualify the obvious prophesies, otherwise they'd be Christians. Yes, the Jews were looking for another earthly king, one who would physically deliver them from captivity (yet again). Even Judas thought Christ was the one who would liberate them from Roman rule. But prophecy proclaimed a spiritual deliverer, one who would defeat death, sin, and the devil. Jesus announced himself in Luke 4:18-19 when he read Isaiah's prophecy; "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," (Isaiah 61:1-2). This was the first advent, when Messiah would bring spiritual deliverance. But Christ stopped reading mid-verse for a reason, the remaining said; "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isaiah 61:2). This 'day of vengeance' did not occur at his first coming, as the Jews anticipated, but will occur at the second advent when Messiah comes in judgement. But those who rejected his Truth and sacrifice of the first advent, won't be delivered from anything at his second coming. "For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles" (Isaiah 61:8-9). In short, the Jews were looking for an earthly deliverer who would liberate them and set-up a kingdom on earth. But Jesus brought spiritual deliverance and a new covenant that liberated us from death (sin).
You don't need to believe the prophecies, but it certainly seems evident to me that Psalms 22 & Isaiah 53 can only be describing Christ, there is simply is no other that fits the detailed description. The only way to explain it away is to somehow twist the obvious characterization of Messiah and insinuate that its talking about someone or something else. "He was despised and rejected by men" makes the Jews part of the prophecy.
Oh the irony!! It's their God, it's their book. You'd think they'd know more about it than you Christians who can't even make up your own god and have to steal another religions' god. I really can't understand how people have the gall to say that the Jews don't know their own religion and somehow Christians do?
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2019 12:26:50 GMT -5
It is unsurprising that you vote it down because you were one of those I referred to who had boldly claimed to have had a revelation in which God taught you that the bible was true but when I pressed you to provide details of this revelation you couldn’t provide any details whatsoever. When I put it to you that the revelation you claimed to have had was merely a figment of your imagination you had no response. Your approach was that it was up to me to prove that you didn’t have a revelation which is just silly. It’s a classic deflection tactic used by believers to avoid providing evidence to support a claim which should be available if the claim was true. But no evidence is provided because no evidence exists and no evidence exists because the claim isn’t true. No doubt you would also fail to provide the evidence that you claim exists in your response here just as STR will fail to provide the details I have requested that would demonstrate that she really did see God. You will see a pattern here I’m sure. People don’t really have revelations from God and neither do they really see God. Such claims are false although that doesn’t mean that the believer doesn’t honestly and sincerely believe them. It’s just that the believer is suffering from religious delusion which causes them to believe things that aren’t true. Obviously religious believers don’t call it religious delusion. They call it faith. So when you tell me that my problem is that I don’t have faith to believe you are correct. I don’t have faith. I don’t have religious delusion. I am no longer religiously deluded although I recognise that I once was. When I had faith I believed all sorts of crazy things. So I don’t see lack of faith as a problem. I see having faith as being a problem. Faith makes you believe things that aren’t true. Faith is an excuse for believing in things that aren’t true. Faith makes you blind. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to be a believer and continually be asked to provide evidence to support things that you believe to be true but you cannot provide the evidence for because it just isn’t there. I suspect it’s rather like being a member of the flat earth society. You can see why 2x2 workers are smart not to allow questions at gospel meetings. If you are making claims that just aren’t true or that don’t add up it is better not to make them in a public forum where they are subject to scrutiny. Making unsupported claims in public forums can leave one looking very foolish if one is challenged on them and can’t provide evidence to support them. Faith is preserved best in environments where it isn’t challenged and among those who are susceptible to believing things without evidence. Matt10 You seem to have a very strong desire to tell others they are wrong. Very telling. Christians do it all the time. Guess you don't like to hear what we hear all the time. I don't blame you but it might give you some insight into how 'old' it gets to hear we're fools and wrong all the time. Fact is this. No one knows anything for sure about anything other than the natural world. What we observe in the natural world does not show any reason to believe in a supernatural world.
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