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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 18:39:36 GMT -5
What a weird comment to make. Not so weird after all. The workers preach that this (the fellowship) is the 'truth', saying that other groups are false, that their ministry (going 2 & 2, meetings in the home) is the only way. So, logically, when they talk of one fold, people arrive at conclusions as to what they are meaning. And the basis is a logical fallacy because Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". 2x2' and others insert themselves into the words of Jesus!. So for the 2x2's this reads: "I am the way and the truth and the life and the 2x2's. No one comes to the Father except through me and the 2x2's.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 18:53:53 GMT -5
This was actually the doctrine of the original church. Today, many groups and sects believe that they alone are the one true church. The doctrine is 100% correct, but to whom it applies, or indeed how it applies nowadays, is the REAL question. Until the current Pope started believing in fairies, the Catholic Church taught that they alone were the one true (original) church, even claiming they got the keys of the kingdom directly from the Apostle Peter. Don't cast out the doctrine. Try and figure out how to reconcile it in this modern world. If you have two or more church groups or sects, all with differing doctrines, then at best only one of them can be correct. The choice is between zero or one, and when considering the vast number of church denominations and groups that now exist, the emphasis of 'between zero and one' gets even more emphatic. Simplicity is the key, not confusion. I think what really did it for my dad was that my mother didn't profess. The workers would stay in a house that my mother cleaned. Slept on sheets that she washed. Ate food that she prepared. If they believed she was going to hell... and yes, they said that when my dad asked... then why partake of what she set before them? While I do not fault the workers for their belief, I get where my dad is coming from. But you have to question that belief, not judge but question, because your mother is a humam being and basing your belief in Christ is to treat people as yourself, not condemn some to hell because you think they deserve it for not agreeing or seeing things or doing things or not doing things like you do!. I heard a great quote the other day. May not be word for word but went like this: "Treat people for what they are worth, not what they deserve" If you believe in Christ we are all unworthy and underseving, but God/Christ thought we were worth it, so who are we to treat other's as to what we think they deserve!.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 19:01:36 GMT -5
What is really weird is that some believe that a church started in the 1900s by William Irvine and co. Is the one true church on the earth today! I think there will be a few surprises when the judgement call is made and the truly faithful are welcomed into Heaven... *** Your understanding is from a human view of understanding. Jesus said in Matthew 18 that His TRUE New Test. Church and ministry will continue to exist on the earth to the time of His 2nd Coming. Before sending out the 12 and 70 Jesus asked His apostles to PRAY to God the Father that He would send fire MORE labored/workers in the world because Jesus gospel MUST be preached to all nations to give the Gentiles opportunity to believe and accept Him as their Savior. Jesus words and promises are TRUE because God has preserved His TRUE church history documents so that we can read and see even the gates of HELL can't STOP it. God has raised and given men and women the REVELATION of Jesus Truth and Way doctrine on earth in every generation to carry on and continue to the time of His 2nd coming. If the 2x2 is NOT Jesus TRUE New Test. Church today? Then where is His New Test. Church on earth, today? If you can't find Jesus TRUE Church, today then God and Jesus are liars and I don't believe they are. It exists alright! Just not where you think!. You cannot see it! But you can see the results of it. Unfortunately the results of the 2x2 sytems are the ways of the World!. "He lives (He lives), He lives (He lives), Christ Jesus lives today He walks with me and talks with me Along life's narrow way He lives (He lives), He lives (He lives), Salvation to impart You ask me how I know He lives? He lives within my heart"
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 19:21:55 GMT -5
*** Well, let me give you a clearer picture of what Jesus said in Matthew 18 to peter and the apostle, "Upon this ROCK! I will BUILD MY church and the gates of HELL shall NOT Overcome it." Jesus went on to say in Matthew 24:24 And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be PREACHED to ALL nations, for a Witness unto them then shall the end comes." Nathan; this is the downfall of the 2x2s is they are worshipping the 2x2 itinerant ministry. They will never allow Jesus his proper place as their Saviour until they learn that he IS GOD THE SON! How can they know salvation without believing in Jesus Christ? How? Exactly, to the 2x2's Jesus is a example or a brother. I feel that's insulting.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 19:29:46 GMT -5
*** Your understanding is from a human view of understanding. Jesus said in Matthew 18 that His TRUE New Test. Church and ministry will continue to exist on the earth to the time of His 2nd Coming. Before sending out the 12 and 70 Jesus asked His apostles to PRAY to God the Father that He would send fire MORE labored/workers in the world because Jesus gospel MUST be preached to all nations to give the Gentiles opportunity to believe and accept Him as their Savior. Jesus words and promises are TRUE because God has preserved His TRUE church history documents so that we can read and see even the gates of HELL can't STOP it. God has raised and given men and women the REVELATION of Jesus Truth and Way doctrine on earth in every generation to carry on and continue to the time of His 2nd coming. If the 2x2 is NOT Jesus TRUE New Test. Church today? Then where is His New Test. Church on earth, today? If you can't find Jesus TRUE Church, today then God and Jesus are liars and I don't believe they are. It exists alright! Just not where you think!. You cannot see it! But you can see the results of it. Unfortunately the results of the 2x2 sytems are the ways of the World!. "He lives (He lives), He lives (He lives), Christ Jesus lives today He walks with me and talks with me Along life's narrow way He lives (He lives), He lives (He lives), Salvation to impart You ask me how I know He lives? He lives within my heart" Thanks, for your non-exclusive 2x2 opinion. God has preserved history and documents of His True Church history since the time of the apostle Paul to now and those like them through the centuries and we can read their church doctrine, and exclusive belief, doctrines and practices just like the 2x2s. It seems the 2x2 is NOT the lonely exclusive club after all, eh. Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent READ: Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldensesgutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.htmlDate first posted: July 2010
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 19:31:16 GMT -5
Nathan; this is the downfall of the 2x2s is they are worshipping the 2x2 itinerant ministry. They will never allow Jesus his proper place as their Saviour until they learn that he IS GOD THE SON! How can they know salvation without believing in Jesus Christ? How? Exactly, to the 2x2's Jesus is a example or a brother. I feel that's insulting. Jesus is our Elder brother, an apostle, the Son of God, and God the Christ. The 2x2s workers are following Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry because He sent out His apostles TWO and TWO in Matthew 10, Luke 10 and many times in the book of Acts.... That is WHY the people give and call the workers the TWO by TWO because they go forth in pairs or 2x2 like Jesus had sent his apostles.
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Post by speak on Nov 29, 2019 19:33:44 GMT -5
What is even WEIRDER is that these same people (the 2x2s) look down on those who do not belong to their group...they shun their own who leave...they despise others who are not members of their group...they judge others according to their made-up standards.......and so on... I can only imagine that in heaven there will be the despised......,rejected........,misunderstood... ,persecuted of men...but loved of God...More weird comments.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 19:37:57 GMT -5
Nathan; this is the downfall of the 2x2s is they are worshipping the 2x2 itinerant ministry. They will never allow Jesus his proper place as their Saviour until they learn that he IS GOD THE SON! How can they know salvation without believing in Jesus Christ? How? ** The 2x2 workers got everything correct Jesus New Testament ministry, the Trinity/worship Sunday morning meeting, no tithing, no speaking jiberish/intelligible tounges, and so on. The current workers and the friends somehow missing the mark and became Anti-Trinity and so Jesus God became Jesus ONLY the Son of God and that is they all believe NOW! They can't see or understand that jesus is the Son of God and also God the Christ. The workers are NOT getting it, hopefully the Holy Spirit can teach the friends and they can confront the workers of their errors on this subject. No they didnt get every thing correct. Most of 2x2 ritual/traditions are not biblical based. Irvine made it up.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 29, 2019 19:51:39 GMT -5
I would say that no Christian Church as it exists today would be the 'one true church'. I would think that if Jesus did come back today he'd never recognize the religion that sprung up in his name. He was a Jew. He identified as a Jew. He believed in the Mosaic Law. He never intended to create a whole new religion. He wanted his fellow Jews to go back to their roots and be like they were in the OT. He felt that the priests had become corrupted. *** According to Jesus teachings in Matthew chapters 24 and 25 when Jesus Coming Back the 2nd time His TRUE Church/people are scattered to MANY nations on the earth, and He send His angel to sound the trumpet and they will hear the call and be taken up/raptured to meet Christ/Jeus in the sky. This is when ALL the believers to receive the NEW resurrection bodies so they can RULE and REIGN with Him on the earth 1000 yrs. When Jesus returns the second time he’ll be bringing his saints with him. Even the two witnesses that die in the streets of Jerusalem trying to prove there is a God. There will be no elect in the earth during the tribulation simply as it states in II Thessalonians that the one who “lets” (the Holy Spirit) will have to be removed from the earth in order that the Antichrist shall be revealed. There will be no ransomed of Jesus’ left on earth without the Holy Spirit to guard and keep them. This is the fullness of the Gentiles. Those saved will be raptured when Jesus “appears” in the sky(clouds). This is when the Holy Spirit is removed off the face of the earth. The Jews are to go through the tribulation in order to be brought to the place where they will repent of their refusal to accept Jesus as their Messiah and Saviour the first time Jesus came. People are reading where Jesus talked about “appearing” as his second coming. It is not his second coming. It is his gathering his saints from the four corners of the earth. The first resurrection. When he talks about his “coming” that pertains to his second coming and his millennial reign. The saints will be riding white horses behind his white horse; their eyes upon his back for every direction. He will stand on the Mount of Olives when the Jews invite him back to Israel. The mount will cleave in two and a vast fertile valley shall be there, the new earthly Jerusalem will be there and the fourth temple will be there for Jesus to reign in. There will be no God’s elect on the earth during the tribulation for this is the time of God’s wrath to be meted our to the unrighteousness of the earth’s inhabitants. Through which 1/3 rd of the Jews will survive and be saved and join Jesus in the new Jerusalem with his saints.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 19:54:13 GMT -5
** The 2x2 workers got everything correct Jesus New Testament ministry, the Trinity/worship Sunday morning meeting, no tithing, no speaking jiberish/intelligible tounges, and so on. The current workers and the friends somehow missing the mark and became Anti-Trinity and so Jesus God became Jesus ONLY the Son of God and that is they all believe NOW! They can't see or understand that jesus is the Son of God and also God the Christ. The workers are NOT getting it, hopefully the Holy Spirit can teach the friends and they can confront the workers of their errors on this subject. No they didnt get every thing correct. Most of 2x2 ritual/traditions are not biblical based. Irvine made it up. You don't KNOW what you are talking about because you are a non-exclusive 2x2 believer. Irvine didn't made it up anything, he copied it from the scriptures and the Faith Mission that he came out of, you don't even understand that part.
TELL me two things that you think MOST of the 2x2 workers rituals/tradition are NOT biblical base, and let us see if you are correct in your thinking?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 29, 2019 20:14:11 GMT -5
No they didnt get every thing correct. Most of 2x2 ritual/traditions are not biblical based. Irvine made it up. You don't KNOW what you are talking about because you are a non-exclusive 2x2 believer. Irvine didn't made it up anything, he copied it from the scriptures and the Faith Mission that he came out of, you don't even understand that part.
TELL me two things that you think MOST of the 2x2 workers rituals/tradition are NOT biblical base, and let us see if you are correct in your thinking?
What a joke ...coming from you nathan !!!! Thankfully you do not represent the 2x2 church !!!
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 20:19:17 GMT -5
*** According to Jesus teachings in Matthew chapters 24 and 25 when Jesus Coming Back the 2nd time His TRUE Church/people are scattered to MANY nations on the earth, and He send His angel to sound the trumpet and they will hear the call and be taken up/raptured to meet Christ/Jeus in the sky. This is when ALL the believers to receive the NEW resurrection bodies so they can RULE and REIGN with Him on the earth 1000 yrs. When Jesus returns the second time he’ll be bringing his saints with him.? ~~ Yes, Jesus will bring the Old and New Testament Saints appear in the sky, they have the New Resurrection bodies like Jesus has ready for battles, then the believers LIVING on earth also will change with the New resurrection bodies in a blink of an eye to RULE and REIGN with Him on the earth for 1000 yrs.Even the two witnesses that die in the streets of Jerusalem trying to prove there is a God. There will be no elect in the earth during the tribulation simply as it states in II Thessalonians that the one who “lets” (the Holy Spirit) will have to be removed from the earth in order that the Antichrist shall be revealed. There will be no ransomed of Jesus’ left on earth without the Holy Spirit to guard and keep them. My understanding the TWO witnesses represents Jesus TWO and TWO apostolic ministry/apostles through the centuries had been preaching the gospel to the gentiles nations for over 2000 yrs to the time of Jesus 2nd coming.
This is the fullness of the Gentiles. Those saved will be raptured when Jesus “appears” in the sky(clouds). This is when the Holy Spirit is removed off the face of the earth. The Jews are to go through the tribulation in order to be brought to the place where they will repent of their refusal to accept Jesus as their Messiah and Saviour the first time Jesus came. Yes, I believe you are correct.
People are reading where Jesus talked about “appearing” as his second coming. It is not his second coming. It is his gathering his saints from the four corners of the earth. The first resurrection. My understanding his appearing in the SKY with His Saints is His 2nd coming back to earth to RULE and REIGN on the earth 1000 yrs.When he talks about his “coming” that pertains to his second coming and his millennial reign. The saints will be riding white horses behind his white horse; their eyes upon his back for every direction. He will stand on the Mount of Olives when the Jews him back to Israel. The mount will cleave in two and a vast fertile valley shall be there, the new earthly Jerusalem will be there and the fourth temple will be there for Jesus to reign in. I agree.There will be no God’s elect on the earth during the tribulation for this is the time of God’s wrath to be meted our to the unrighteousness of the earth’s inhabitants. Through which 1/3 rd of the Jews will survive and be saved and join Jesus in the new Jerusalem with his saints. I KNOW this time is going to be REALLY BAD for people who were LEFT behind to endure the pains and suffering coming on earth and that is to taste the WRATH of the God and the Lamb Read Rev. chapter 16-17.
Rev. 16:17-21 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 29, 2019 20:33:39 GMT -5
When Jesus returns the second time he’ll be bringing his saints with him.? ~~ Yes, Jesus will bring the Old and New Testament Saints appear in the sky, they have the New Resurrection bodies like Jesus has ready for battles, then the believers LIVING on earth also will change with the New resurrection bodies in a blink of an eye to RULE and REIGN with Him on the earth for 1000 yrs.Even the two witnesses that die in the streets of Jerusalem trying to prove there is a God. There will be no elect in the earth during the tribulation simply as it states in II Thessalonians that the one who “lets” (the Holy Spirit) will have to be removed from the earth in order that the Antichrist shall be revealed. There will be no ransomed of Jesus’ left on earth without the Holy Spirit to guard and keep them. My understanding the TWO witnesses represents Jesus TWO and TWO apostolic ministry/apostles through the centuries had been preaching the gospel to the gentiles nations for over 2000 yrs to the time of Jesus 2nd coming.
This is the fullness of the Gentiles. Those saved will be raptured when Jesus “appears” in the sky(clouds). This is when the Holy Spirit is removed off the face of the earth. The Jews are to go through the tribulation in order to be brought to the place where they will repent of their refusal to accept Jesus as their Messiah and Saviour the first time Jesus came. Yes, I believe you are correct.
People are reading where Jesus talked about “appearing” as his second coming. It is not his second coming. It is his gathering his saints from the four corners of the earth. The first resurrection. My understanding his appearing in the SKY with His Saints is His 2nd coming back to earth to RULE and REIGN on the earth 1000 yrs.When he talks about his “coming” that pertains to his second coming and his millennial reign. The saints will be riding white horses behind his white horse; their eyes upon his back for every direction. He will stand on the Mount of Olives when the Jews him back to Israel. The mount will cleave in two and a vast fertile valley shall be there, the new earthly Jerusalem will be there and the fourth temple will be there for Jesus to reign in. I agree.There will be no God’s elect on the earth during the tribulation for this is the time of God’s wrath to be meted our to the unrighteousness of the earth’s inhabitants. Through which 1/3 rd of the Jews will survive and be saved and join Jesus in the new Jerusalem with his saints. I KNOW this time is going to be REALLY BAD for people who were LEFT behind to endure the pains and suffering coming on earth and that is to taste the WRATH of the God and the Lamb Read Rev. chapter 16-17.
Rev. 16:17-21 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
No, the two witnesses do not represent the two by two ministry. The Bible calls them “these two prophets”. There are only three people who God took off of the earth. Enoch though he is never called a prophet. Moses, it was said God buried him but no one ever found his grave plus he was same form as Elijah, he was a prophet. Elijah was a prophet and was taken up into heaven before death. So it’s most likely as those two prophets are they that strengthened Jesus in the mount of transfiguration, they are still likely God’s prophets who’ll be back to convince the Jews there still is a God. But this time they will literally die and resurrect in the third day and rise unto heaven.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 20:45:57 GMT -5
Exactly, to the 2x2's Jesus is a example or a brother. I feel that's insulting. Jesus is our Elder brother, an apostle, the Son of God, and God the Christ. The 2x2s workers are following Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry because He sent out His apostles TWO and TWO in Matthew 10, Luke 10 and many times in the book of Acts.... That is WHY the people give and call the workers the TWO by TWO because they go forth in pairs or 2x2 like Jesus had sent his apostles. Can you show me where specific instruction or method was given about how they were to teach to all nations!. Specifically like the 2x2 beliefs. Jesus was very specific when he sent the 12/70 to the isralites ahead of his coming!. None of this is specified in going to all nations and some of it is contradicted.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 20:47:03 GMT -5
No, the two witnesses do not represent the two by two ministry. The Bible calls them “these two prophets”. There are only three people who God took off of the earth. Enoch though he is never called a prophet. Moses, it was said God buried him but no one ever found his grave plus he was same form as Elijah, he was a prophet. Elijah was a prophet and was taken up into heaven before death. So it’s most likely as those two prophets are they that strengthened Jesus in the mount of transfiguration, they are still likely God’s prophets who’ll be back to convince the Jews there still is a God. But this time they will literally die and resurrect in the third day and rise unto heaven. As I mentioned to you before the Apostles/Workers Ministry have many gifts among themselves, such as Prophets, Preachers, Teachers, Pastors, Ministers, and Missionaries and so on.... to equip the saints ready as preachers, teachers, pastors, missionaries LIVING Witnesses of their own ministry to the world! to the time of the Gentiles have been given to hear the gospel that was promised by God.
Eph. 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.
Eph 4:10-14 He/Jesus that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 20:59:15 GMT -5
Jesus is our Elder brother, an apostle, the Son of God, and God the Christ. The 2x2s workers are following Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry because He sent out His apostles TWO and TWO in Matthew 10, Luke 10 and many times in the book of Acts.... That is WHY the people give and call the workers the TWO by TWO because they go forth in pairs or 2x2 like Jesus had sent his apostles. Can you show me where specific instruction or method was given about how they were to teach to all nations!. Specifically like the 2x2 beliefs. Jesus was very specific when he sent the 12/70 to the isralites ahead of his coming!. None of this is specified in going to all nations and some of it is contradicted. WOW! you are a 2x2 and don't KNOW these basic teachings of Jesus? Read Jesus the GREAT commission to the apostles and His followers.
Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Acts 1:4-8 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Here are some of historical documents of Jesus apostles continue the TWO and TWO ministry, their doctrine, belief and practices through the centuries beginning in 67-1700 A.D. VERY similar to the 2x2 workers!
Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent READ: Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses
Date first posted: July 2010 gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 21:00:05 GMT -5
No they didnt get every thing correct. Most of 2x2 ritual/traditions are not biblical based. Irvine made it up. You don't KNOW what you are talking about because you are a non-exclusive 2x2 believer. Irvine didn't made it up anything, he copied it from the scriptures and the Faith Mission that he came out of, you don't even understand that part.
TELL me two things that you think MOST of the 2x2 workers rituals/tradition are NOT biblical base, and let us see if you are correct in your thinking?
You have to hear the gospel through a 2x2 minister to be saved. You have to endure for your salvation. You have to proffess to be saved. You have to go to meetings to be saved You have to agree with "US" to be saved You have to dress like us to be saved need I go on. Tell me where the thief on the cross fits into these traditions to be saved!. Oh thats right he just believed in Christ!. Oh and I believe Irvine might have dropped the word EXPERIMENT!. He made it up, just like he made up his prophecy.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 29, 2019 21:00:15 GMT -5
I strongly belief they’re God’s prophets, Moses and Elijah. They strengthenJesus for his time if crucifixion and they’ll be back to strengthenGod’s chosen people, the Jews for their hour of tribulations.
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Post by Annan on Nov 29, 2019 21:04:08 GMT -5
What is even WEIRDER is that these same people (the 2x2s) look down on those who do not belong to their group...they shun their own who leave...they despise others who are not members of their group...they judge others according to their made-up standards.......and so on... I can only imagine that in heaven there will be the despised......,rejected........,misunderstood... ,persecuted of men...but loved of God...More weird comments. I don't find that the least bit weird. Being raised in the 2x2's made me feel and think that the least bit of joy was a no-no. Suffering for their god seemed the name of the game. I've always thought heaven must be filled with 2x2 martyrs.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 21:09:43 GMT -5
You don't KNOW what you are talking about because you are a non-exclusive 2x2 believer. Irvine didn't made it up anything, he copied it from the scriptures and the Faith Mission that he came out of, you don't even understand that part.
TELL me two things that you think MOST of the 2x2 workers rituals/tradition are NOT biblical base, and let us see if you are correct in your thinking?
You have to hear the gospel through a 2x2 minister to be saved. You have to endure for your salvation. You have to proffess to be saved. You have to go to meetings to be saved You have to agree with "US" to be saved You have to dress like us to be saved need I go on. ~~ ALL these things you mentioning are IN THE BIBLE! it seems you don't read all of your Bible/New Testament Bible, Chuckie.
Tell me where the thief on the cross fits into these traditions to be saved!. Oh thats right he just believed in Christ!. Oh and I believe Irvine might have dropped the word EXPERIMENT!. It wasn't experiment! You have been READING and believing TOO much in the TTT website half-truth information! William Irvine was a 2x2 worker for the Faith Mission before he became a 2x2 worker so he KNEW it worked, no need to experiment anything! It worked for Jesus, the 12,70, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Titus and many apostles after them for the next 2000 yrs.
He made it up, just like he made up his prophecy. William Irvine didn't made up, he got all mixed up and Messed up with Jesus 2nd coming and thought he was ONE of the TWO Witnesses in Rev. 11. He got too big for his pants! Too much of I's me and myself. I started this group, I am the founder or the first worker. William Irvine copied most of his ideas, belief from the Faith Mission founder John Govan in 1886 and he copied it from those who had done it before him.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 21:14:52 GMT -5
Can you show me where specific instruction or method was given about how they were to teach to all nations!. Specifically like the 2x2 beliefs. Jesus was very specific when he sent the 12/70 to the isralites ahead of his coming!. None of this is specified in going to all nations and some of it is contradicted. WOW! you are a 2x2 and don't KNOW these basic teachings of Jesus? Read Jesus the GREAT commission to the apostles and His followers.
Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Acts 1:4-8 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Here are some of historical documents of Jesus apostles continue the TWO and TWO ministry, their doctrine, belief and practices through the centuries beginning in 67-1700 A.D. VERY similar to the 2x2 workers!
Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent READ: Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses
Date first posted: July 2010 gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.htmlSo were is the bit about going 2x2, and meetings, and and ministers not getting married ect ect ect.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 21:22:41 GMT -5
You have to hear the gospel through a 2x2 minister to be saved. You have to endure for your salvation. You have to proffess to be saved. You have to go to meetings to be saved You have to agree with "US" to be saved You have to dress like us to be saved need I go on. ~~ ALL these things you mentioning are IN THE BIBLE! it seems you don't read all of your Bible/New Testament Bible, Chuckie.
Tell me where the thief on the cross fits into these traditions to be saved!. Oh thats right he just believed in Christ!. Oh and I believe Irvine might have dropped the word EXPERIMENT!. It wasn't experiment! You have been READING and believing TOO much in the TTT website half-truth information! William Irvine was a 2x2 worker for the Faith Mission before he became a 2x2 worker so he KNEW it worked, no need to experiment anything! It worked for Jesus, the 12,70, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Titus and many apostles after them for the next 2000 yrs.
He made it up, just like he made up his prophecy. William Irvine didn't made up, he got all mixed up and Messed up with Jesus 2nd coming and thought he was ONE of the TWO Witnesses in Rev. 11. He got too big for his pants! Too much of I's me and myself. I started this group, I am the founder or the first worker. William Irvine copied most of his ideas, belief from the Faith Mission founder John Govan in 1886 and he copied it from those who had done it before him.
Im sure he did copy stuff. It was still a experimemt. And time has proven the basis of the 2x2's is not biblical. The whole you must hear the gospel through a 2x2 is as sound as his prophecy.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 21:24:40 GMT -5
WOW! you are a 2x2 and don't KNOW these basic teachings of Jesus? Read Jesus the GREAT commission to the apostles and His followers.
Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Acts 1:4-8 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Here are some of historical documents of Jesus apostles continue the TWO and TWO ministry, their doctrine, belief and practices through the centuries beginning in 67-1700 A.D. VERY similar to the 2x2 workers!
Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent READ: Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses
Date first posted: July 2010 gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html So where is the bit about going 2x2, and meetings, and and ministers not getting married ect ect ect. Who was Peter Waldo?
In 1160 A.D. Peter Waldo of Lyons, France, a successful merchant and banker, was aroused to see his need of salvation by the sudden death of one of the guests at a feast he had given. A Vaudois theologian directed Peter Waldo to the Lord's words in (Matthew 19:21) "If thou be Perfect, go and "sell" that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasure in Heaven, and come and follow me." Peter Waldo, therefore, made over his lands, property to his wife, SOLD the remainder, and distributed it among the poor. They Believe in Apostolic succession through the laying on of the hand of such had it on those really called to receive this grace. They taught that the Church of Rome had lost this when Pope Sylvester accepted the union of Church and State, but it remained among them. From: The Heroic of Men & Women for religion of Jesus Christ by James D. McCabe. (1881)
The Valleys of Piedmont: Within this little areas, scarcely larger than the District of Columbia, USA. Has existed from remote times a peculiar race of people, rarely numbering more than 20,000. The have retained their primitive appearance and manners to a greater degree than almost any other European community. They have always been noted for the simplicity and purity of their lives, and their absolute freedom from the ignorance, superstition, and vice which have cursed the countries around them. The men are tall, well made, graceful in action, vigorous and hardly. The women are fair, endowed with a native grace and refinement, and have always been noted for their chastity and modest deportment. Both sexes are frank, hospitable, peaceful, and forbearing in disposition. Soon after the introduction of Christianity into Italy by the Apostles, the people of these valleys became converts to the faith preached by Paul the apostle. They accepted and taught the doctrines of the Apostles, and practiced the simple rites or usages as described by Justin or Tellurian. They acknowledge the Holy Scriptures as their sole rule of faith, and rejected all that was not taught in the books of the New Testament. From the days of Constantine (the Roman Emperor who became a Christian) to the present time, they have never changed their faith, and have never altered in any important particular their religious observances. The Vaudois themselves called themselves only by the name of Christians. They were required to commit to memory the Gospels of Matthew and John, the general epistles, and a part of those of Paul. They were instructed, moreover, during two or three successive winters, and trained to speak in Latin, and in Italian. They were supported by voluntary contributions of the believers. One part was given to the ministers, once to the poor, and the third was reserved for the missionaries of the Church. These missionaries always Went Forth Two and Two, to wit, a young man and old one. The latter was the Regidor, and his COMPANION the Coadjutor. They traveled to Italy, where they had stations organized in many places, and secret adherents in almost all the towns. Each minister was required to become a missionary in his turn. The younger ones were thus initiated into the delicate duties of evangelization--each of them being under the experienced guidance of a man of years, who according to the discipline of his church, was his superior, and whom he was bound to obey in everything as a matter of duty, and not merely out of deference. The Old man, on his part, thus made his preparation for repose, by training for the Church Successors worthy of it and of himself. His task being accomplished, he could die in peace, with consolatory assurance of having Committed the Sacred Trust of the Gospel into Prudent and Zealous hands. Their maintenance of the absolute authority of the Word of God, and of the doctrine of Salvation by Jesus Christ. The Vaudois, therefore, are not schematics, but continued inheritors of the Church founded by the Apostles. Very few of them were married (in the ministry); and their perpetual missions, their poverty, their missionary tours, their life always spent amidst warfare and dangers, make it easy to understand the reason of their Celibacy. In the annual synod (special gatherings), which was held in the Valleys, inquiry was made concerning the conduct of the ministers and changes of residence were made amongst them. Those actually employed in the ministry were changed from place to place every three years---two of them always exchanging places with another, except the aged men, who were no longer removed. The Vaudois were bound to visit the sick; they admonished those who behaved ill, and if remonstrance's produced no effect, they went to length of Excommunication; but it was very rare. Their preaching, catechizing, and other exercise of instruction and devotion, were generally similar to those of reformed Churches, except that the worshippers pronounced, with a low voice, the prayer which preceded and that which followed the sermon. They Vaudois likewise had hymns, which they only sung in private, and which, moreover, agrees with what we know of the customs of the primitive Church. Their doctrines were equally analogous, or rather were remarkably identical with those of the Apostolic times, and of the earliest fathers of the Church. They may be briefly summed up in these few words: The absolute authority and inspiration of the Bible-- The Trinity, the Godhead---- The sinful state of man--- Free Salvation by Jesus Christ--- But above all, Faith working by Love. Their missionaries were everywhere, proclaiming the SIMPLE truths of Christianity, and stirring the hearts of men and women to their very Depths. In Hungary, in Bohemia, in France, in England, in Scotland, as well in Italy, they were working with tremendous, through Silent power. Such was the organization, and such were the doctrines of the Apostolic Church of the Valleys of Piedmont. Waldenses Had Women Preachers!! The Waldenses still went further in shocking old-time customs and claimed the RIGHT to Preach for "WOMEN" as well as for MEN. The Waldenses Preachers/Pastors or Barbes, were first condemned by the Pope because they were private people and laymen, NOT learned clergy. Women Preachers were NOT uncommon and they played a considerable role in Piedmont as the 14th century. Waldensians' activity was NOT limited to the Alps-maritime region. John Bale in his catalogue mentioned some Waldensians who had begun to teach in England in (1164). Then in the summer of (1199), the bishop of Metz informed Rome that Waldensians were holding secret meetings in his diocese in which MEN and WOMEN Preached, using a French translation of the Bible. Pope Innocent III declared that secret home assemblies, unlicensed preaching, and disobedience to the command of bishops were NOT to be tolerated. By 1270, the Waldensian Preachers were gathering out disciples in various German states, Austria, Bohemia, Moravia, Hungary, and Poland. The danger for the Catholic Church was that the Bible text conveyed to the general population, by Waldeneses preachers Untrained in theology, appeared to contradict MANY of the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church, whose clergy was NOT always highly respected. ~~ John Govan the Faith Mission founder, William Irvine and the early 2x2 workers DID NOT START or FOUNDED Jesus 2x2 apostolic/workers ministry! They just copied it from those who had DONE it before THEM! for 1700 yrs.
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 21:50:56 GMT -5
So where is the bit about going 2x2, and meetings, and and ministers not getting married ect ect ect. Who was Peter Waldo?
In 1160 A.D. Peter Waldo of Lyons, France, a successful merchant and banker, was aroused to see his need of salvation by the sudden death of one of the guests at a feast he had given. A Vaudois theologian directed Peter Waldo to the Lord's words in (Matthew 19:21) "If thou be Perfect, go and "sell" that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasure in Heaven, and come and follow me." Peter Waldo, therefore, made over his lands, property to his wife, SOLD the remainder, and distributed it among the poor. They Believe in Apostolic succession through the laying on of the hand of such had it on those really called to receive this grace. They taught that the Church of Rome had lost this when Pope Sylvester accepted the union of Church and State, but it remained among them. From: The Heroic of Men & Women for religion of Jesus Christ by James D. McCabe. (1881)
The Valleys of Piedmont: Within this little areas, scarcely larger than the District of Columbia, USA. Has existed from remote times a peculiar race of people, rarely numbering more than 20,000. The have retained their primitive appearance and manners to a greater degree than almost any other European community. They have always been noted for the simplicity and purity of their lives, and their absolute freedom from the ignorance, superstition, and vice which have cursed the countries around them. The men are tall, well made, graceful in action, vigorous and hardly. The women are fair, endowed with a native grace and refinement, and have always been noted for their chastity and modest deportment. Both sexes are frank, hospitable, peaceful, and forbearing in disposition. Soon after the introduction of Christianity into Italy by the Apostles, the people of these valleys became converts to the faith preached by Paul the apostle. They accepted and taught the doctrines of the Apostles, and practiced the simple rites or usages as described by Justin or Tellurian. They acknowledge the Holy Scriptures as their sole rule of faith, and rejected all that was not taught in the books of the New Testament. From the days of Constantine (the Roman Emperor who became a Christian) to the present time, they have never changed their faith, and have never altered in any important particular their religious observances. The Vaudois themselves called themselves only by the name of Christians. They were required to commit to memory the Gospels of Matthew and John, the general epistles, and a part of those of Paul. They were instructed, moreover, during two or three successive winters, and trained to speak in Latin, and in Italian. They were supported by voluntary contributions of the believers. One part was given to the ministers, once to the poor, and the third was reserved for the missionaries of the Church. These missionaries always Went Forth Two and Two, to wit, a young man and old one. The latter was the Regidor, and his COMPANION the Coadjutor. They traveled to Italy, where they had stations organized in many places, and secret adherents in almost all the towns. Each minister was required to become a missionary in his turn. The younger ones were thus initiated into the delicate duties of evangelization--each of them being under the experienced guidance of a man of years, who according to the discipline of his church, was his superior, and whom he was bound to obey in everything as a matter of duty, and not merely out of deference. The Old man, on his part, thus made his preparation for repose, by training for the Church Successors worthy of it and of himself. His task being accomplished, he could die in peace, with consolatory assurance of having Committed the Sacred Trust of the Gospel into Prudent and Zealous hands. Their maintenance of the absolute authority of the Word of God, and of the doctrine of Salvation by Jesus Christ. The Vaudois, therefore, are not schematics, but continued inheritors of the Church founded by the Apostles. Very few of them were married (in the ministry); and their perpetual missions, their poverty, their missionary tours, their life always spent amidst warfare and dangers, make it easy to understand the reason of their Celibacy. In the annual synod (special gatherings), which was held in the Valleys, inquiry was made concerning the conduct of the ministers and changes of residence were made amongst them. Those actually employed in the ministry were changed from place to place every three years---two of them always exchanging places with another, except the aged men, who were no longer removed. The Vaudois were bound to visit the sick; they admonished those who behaved ill, and if remonstrance's produced no effect, they went to length of Excommunication; but it was very rare. Their preaching, catechizing, and other exercise of instruction and devotion, were generally similar to those of reformed Churches, except that the worshippers pronounced, with a low voice, the prayer which preceded and that which followed the sermon. They Vaudois likewise had hymns, which they only sung in private, and which, moreover, agrees with what we know of the customs of the primitive Church. Their doctrines were equally analogous, or rather were remarkably identical with those of the Apostolic times, and of the earliest fathers of the Church. They may be briefly summed up in these few words: The absolute authority and inspiration of the Bible-- The Trinity, the Godhead---- The sinful state of man--- Free Salvation by Jesus Christ--- But above all, Faith working by Love. Their missionaries were everywhere, proclaiming the SIMPLE truths of Christianity, and stirring the hearts of men and women to their very Depths. In Hungary, in Bohemia, in France, in England, in Scotland, as well in Italy, they were working with tremendous, through Silent power. Such was the organization, and such were the doctrines of the Apostolic Church of the Valleys of Piedmont. Waldenses Had Women Preachers!! The Waldenses still went further in shocking old-time customs and claimed the RIGHT to Preach for "WOMEN" as well as for MEN. The Waldenses Preachers/Pastors or Barbes, were first condemned by the Pope because they were private people and laymen, NOT learned clergy. Women Preachers were NOT uncommon and they played a considerable role in Piedmont as the 14th century. Waldensians' activity was NOT limited to the Alps-maritime region. John Bale in his catalogue mentioned some Waldensians who had begun to teach in England in (1164). Then in the summer of (1199), the bishop of Metz informed Rome that Waldensians were holding secret meetings in his diocese in which MEN and WOMEN Preached, using a French translation of the Bible. Pope Innocent III declared that secret home assemblies, unlicensed preaching, and disobedience to the command of bishops were NOT to be tolerated. By 1270, the Waldensian Preachers were gathering out disciples in various German states, Austria, Bohemia, Moravia, Hungary, and Poland. The danger for the Catholic Church was that the Bible text conveyed to the general population, by Waldeneses preachers Untrained in theology, appeared to contradict MANY of the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church, whose clergy was NOT always highly respected. ~~ John Govan the Faith Mission founder, William Irvine and the early 2x2 workers DID NOT START or FOUNDED Jesus 2x2 apostolic/workers ministry! They just copied it from those who had DONE it before THEM! for 1700 yrs.
Oh dear so Mr Waldo's beginning was based on Good works for salvation!. And this somehow confirms the 2x2 delusion is correct!. This is not biblical!.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 29, 2019 22:10:41 GMT -5
Who was Peter Waldo?
In 1160 A.D. Peter Waldo of Lyons, France, a successful merchant and banker, was aroused to see his need of salvation by the sudden death of one of the guests at a feast he had given. A Vaudois theologian directed Peter Waldo to the Lord's words in (Matthew 19:21) "If thou be Perfect, go and "sell" that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasure in Heaven, and come and follow me." Peter Waldo, therefore, made over his lands, property to his wife, SOLD the remainder, and distributed it among the poor. They Believe in Apostolic succession through the laying on of the hand of such had it on those really called to receive this grace. They taught that the Church of Rome had lost this when Pope Sylvester accepted the union of Church and State, but it remained among them. From: The Heroic of Men & Women for religion of Jesus Christ by James D. McCabe. (1881)
The Valleys of Piedmont: Within this little areas, scarcely larger than the District of Columbia, USA. Has existed from remote times a peculiar race of people, rarely numbering more than 20,000. The have retained their primitive appearance and manners to a greater degree than almost any other European community. They have always been noted for the simplicity and purity of their lives, and their absolute freedom from the ignorance, superstition, and vice which have cursed the countries around them. The men are tall, well made, graceful in action, vigorous and hardly. The women are fair, endowed with a native grace and refinement, and have always been noted for their chastity and modest deportment. Both sexes are frank, hospitable, peaceful, and forbearing in disposition. Soon after the introduction of Christianity into Italy by the Apostles, the people of these valleys became converts to the faith preached by Paul the apostle. They accepted and taught the doctrines of the Apostles, and practiced the simple rites or usages as described by Justin or Tellurian. They acknowledge the Holy Scriptures as their sole rule of faith, and rejected all that was not taught in the books of the New Testament. From the days of Constantine (the Roman Emperor who became a Christian) to the present time, they have never changed their faith, and have never altered in any important particular their religious observances. The Vaudois themselves called themselves only by the name of Christians. They were required to commit to memory the Gospels of Matthew and John, the general epistles, and a part of those of Paul. They were instructed, moreover, during two or three successive winters, and trained to speak in Latin, and in Italian. They were supported by voluntary contributions of the believers. One part was given to the ministers, once to the poor, and the third was reserved for the missionaries of the Church. These missionaries always Went Forth Two and Two, to wit, a young man and old one. The latter was the Regidor, and his COMPANION the Coadjutor. They traveled to Italy, where they had stations organized in many places, and secret adherents in almost all the towns. Each minister was required to become a missionary in his turn. The younger ones were thus initiated into the delicate duties of evangelization--each of them being under the experienced guidance of a man of years, who according to the discipline of his church, was his superior, and whom he was bound to obey in everything as a matter of duty, and not merely out of deference. The Old man, on his part, thus made his preparation for repose, by training for the Church Successors worthy of it and of himself. His task being accomplished, he could die in peace, with consolatory assurance of having Committed the Sacred Trust of the Gospel into Prudent and Zealous hands. Their maintenance of the absolute authority of the Word of God, and of the doctrine of Salvation by Jesus Christ. The Vaudois, therefore, are not schematics, but continued inheritors of the Church founded by the Apostles. Very few of them were married (in the ministry); and their perpetual missions, their poverty, their missionary tours, their life always spent amidst warfare and dangers, make it easy to understand the reason of their Celibacy. In the annual synod (special gatherings), which was held in the Valleys, inquiry was made concerning the conduct of the ministers and changes of residence were made amongst them. Those actually employed in the ministry were changed from place to place every three years---two of them always exchanging places with another, except the aged men, who were no longer removed. The Vaudois were bound to visit the sick; they admonished those who behaved ill, and if remonstrance's produced no effect, they went to length of Excommunication; but it was very rare. Their preaching, catechizing, and other exercise of instruction and devotion, were generally similar to those of reformed Churches, except that the worshippers pronounced, with a low voice, the prayer which preceded and that which followed the sermon. They Vaudois likewise had hymns, which they only sung in private, and which, moreover, agrees with what we know of the customs of the primitive Church. Their doctrines were equally analogous, or rather were remarkably identical with those of the Apostolic times, and of the earliest fathers of the Church. They may be briefly summed up in these few words: The absolute authority and inspiration of the Bible-- The Trinity, the Godhead---- The sinful state of man--- Free Salvation by Jesus Christ--- But above all, Faith working by Love. Their missionaries were everywhere, proclaiming the SIMPLE truths of Christianity, and stirring the hearts of men and women to their very Depths. In Hungary, in Bohemia, in France, in England, in Scotland, as well in Italy, they were working with tremendous, through Silent power. Such was the organization, and such were the doctrines of the Apostolic Church of the Valleys of Piedmont. Waldenses Had Women Preachers!! The Waldenses still went further in shocking old-time customs and claimed the RIGHT to Preach for "WOMEN" as well as for MEN. The Waldenses Preachers/Pastors or Barbes, were first condemned by the Pope because they were private people and laymen, NOT learned clergy. Women Preachers were NOT uncommon and they played a considerable role in Piedmont as the 14th century. Waldensians' activity was NOT limited to the Alps-maritime region. John Bale in his catalogue mentioned some Waldensians who had begun to teach in England in (1164). Then in the summer of (1199), the bishop of Metz informed Rome that Waldensians were holding secret meetings in his diocese in which MEN and WOMEN Preached, using a French translation of the Bible. Pope Innocent III declared that secret home assemblies, unlicensed preaching, and disobedience to the command of bishops were NOT to be tolerated. By 1270, the Waldensian Preachers were gathering out disciples in various German states, Austria, Bohemia, Moravia, Hungary, and Poland. The danger for the Catholic Church was that the Bible text conveyed to the general population, by Waldeneses preachers Untrained in theology, appeared to contradict MANY of the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church, whose clergy was NOT always highly respected. ~~ John Govan the Faith Mission founder, William Irvine and the early 2x2 workers DID NOT START or FOUNDED Jesus 2x2 apostolic/workers ministry! They just copied it from those who had DONE it before THEM! for 1700 yrs.
Oh dear so Mr Waldo's beginning was based on Good works for salvation!. And this somehow confirms the 2x2 delusion is correct!. This is not biblical!. The amusing part is that the Workers don't even agree with nathan's "story" chuck!!! Imagine going to the Workers and asking them about Peter Waldo !!! But as usually nathan thinks he knows more than the Workers !!! I really don't know why he doesn't start his own church !
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Post by chuck on Nov 29, 2019 22:48:42 GMT -5
Oh dear so Mr Waldo's beginning was based on Good works for salvation!. And this somehow confirms the 2x2 delusion is correct!. This is not biblical!. The amusing part is that the Workers don't even agree with nathan's "story" chuck!!! Imagine going to the Workers and asking them about Peter Waldo !!! But as usually nathan thinks he knows more than the Workers !!! I really don't know why he doesn't start his own church ! The so called only true Ministry cannot even get this right!. "Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Yet somehow this confirms the 2x2 is the correct way. They sure have strayed from teaching Jesus is God!. Strayed from or never really actually acknowledge the Grace of God. All sorts of traditions continuously change, For the so called "TRUTH" it seems to to be ever changing, which is really weird because Jesus's is the same yesterday, today, forever!. How can the perfect way get it so wrong all of the time!.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 22:50:28 GMT -5
Oh dear so Mr Waldo's beginning was based on Good works for salvation!. And this somehow confirms the 2x2 delusion is correct!. This is not biblical!. The amusing part is that the Workers don't even agree with nathan 's "story" chuck !!! Imagine going to the Workers and asking them about Peter Waldo !!! But as usually nathan thinks he knows more than the Workers !!! I really don't know why he doesn't start his own church ! hahaha... I started my own Jesus 2x2 church on TMB or similar boards to it, 20 yrs ago... I am the first internet worker, Wally and Jetmech are my companions, didn't you know that... You should KNOW that by now, RT.
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Post by nathan on Nov 29, 2019 23:00:01 GMT -5
The amusing part is that the Workers don't even agree with nathan 's "story" chuck !!! Imagine going to the Workers and asking them about Peter Waldo !!! But as usually nathan thinks he knows more than the Workers !!! I really don't know why he doesn't start his own church ! The so called only true Ministry cannot even get this right!. "Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Yet somehow this confirms the 2x2 is the correct way. They sure have strayed from teaching Jesus is God!. Strayed from or never really actually acknowledge the Grace of God. All sorts of traditions continuously change, For the so called "TRUTH" it seems to to be ever changing, which is really weird because Jesus's is the same yesterday, today, forever!. How can the perfect way get it so wrong all of the time!. You are a 2x2 and don't KNOW the basic teachings of the workers/apostles or Jesus New Testament teachings.
Don't worry, the early workers had believed and taught the Trinity, Jesus is God and the Sunday Morning worship gathering is TRINITY/Triune God= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit Worship!... If many of the current workers and the friends understand this they will reconsider their stance on anti-Trinity, and Jesus is NOT God because they STILL keep the Sunday Worship/Trinity! .... While there is life there is hope for them. Once God has opened their eyes! Christ is God and man/Jesus. The glorious gospel will prosper again like in the Old days!
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