|
Post by nathan on Oct 24, 2019 9:10:17 GMT -5
No the works do not justify us, Faith justifies us. Works vindicate true Saving Faith. Just like Abraham in Romans 4:9- This guy explains it really well. youtu.be/lZu0DXcDypEAre you suggesting the works the Friends do are not of the flesh?. Dress codes, technology codes, proffesing, baptisms, subtle suggestions that not attending regular meetings/missions is bad, excommunication ect ect. All of the flesh. ** FAITH Without good works to show forth is DEAD FAITH/Useless. James the apostle gave us a complete picture of Faith and good works must go hand in hand. just like see someone suffering in pains and dying in a car crash then you say I have faith God will save you and walk away instead find ways/works to help that person. That is Dead FAITH we are talking about without good works to back it up! Talks ONLY! Talks is cheap. like you say you are a Christian but you go to the bar drinking with your work friends after work on every week end, partying, and all sorts of worldly things. These works do not back up with your faith.
|
|
|
Post by vanillagorilla on Oct 24, 2019 10:05:59 GMT -5
So are you a self appointed authority to make this statement? If i follow christ then I would know if God was in Satan or not? really? LOL nope, you are not that authority. Come down from your soap box. there are many people who follow christ who know varying degrees of information, and I can assure you that they are not influenced by you or aware of your statement. Well you are just entitled to call people not nice things and call yourself a Christian as any one else I suppose. End of discussion for me Thanks. that's wonderful. However I did zero of calling people not nice things. Calling people not nice things is something i am very good at, but i do NOT do. What i AM entitled to is the same that all are entitled to: love and happiness. I hope you have these. From the lifestyle I live, I have them. Enjoy your day Sir
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 24, 2019 10:07:32 GMT -5
No the works do not justify us, Faith justifies us. Works vindicate true Saving Faith. Just like Abraham in Romans 4:9- This guy explains it really well. youtu.be/lZu0DXcDypEAre you suggesting the works the Friends do are not of the flesh?. Dress codes, technology codes, proffesing, baptisms, subtle suggestions that not attending regular meetings/missions is bad, excommunication ect ect. All of the flesh.I do not know where you get this from? The good works of God, which are a necessary accompaniment of the salvation journey, is quite simply 'obedience to the Word of God.' It is THIS which justifies our faith. Without it, our faith is dead. Works are essential, but first we must understand what the good works of God is. FWIW I am not a two x two. If you want to see faith and works in the correct context you only have to look at the life of Jesus. No need for youtubes, etc. That way you will get it right. No better example. No better reference. The obvious example is the one people want to avoid. Jesus simplified things with two words. 'Follow me!'
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Oct 24, 2019 11:57:57 GMT -5
No the works do not justify us, Faith justifies us. Works vindicate true Saving Faith. Just like Abraham in Romans 4:9- This guy explains it really well. youtu.be/lZu0DXcDypEAre you suggesting the works the Friends do are not of the flesh?. Dress codes, technology codes, proffesing, baptisms, subtle suggestions that not attending regular meetings/missions is bad, excommunication ect ect. All of the flesh.[/b][/quote] I do not know where you get this from? The good works of God, which are a necessary accompaniment of the salvation journey, is quite simply 'obedience to the Word of God.' It is THIS which justifies our faith. Without it, our faith is dead. Works are essential, but first we must understand what the good works of God is. FWIW I am not a two x two. If you want to see faith and works in the correct context you only have to look at the life of Jesus. No need for youtubes, etc. That way you will get it right. No better example. No better reference. The obvious example is the one people want to avoid. Jesus simplified things with two words. 'Follow me!'[/quote] ** Amen. Jesus knew he came down from heaven as God's or the Son of God and he could forgive sins. Jesus didn't just say I am that I am/God so your sins are forgiven. To prove He is God because ONLY can heal the blinds, the lepers, the lame to walk and raised the dead. He didn't just talk or saying He is God but He proved it by performing these miracles. Salvation/Faith accompanies with works to prove it/Faith.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 17:37:02 GMT -5
No the works do not justify us, Faith justifies us. Works vindicate true Saving Faith. Just like Abraham in Romans 4:9- This guy explains it really well. youtu.be/lZu0DXcDypEAre you suggesting the works the Friends do are not of the flesh?. Dress codes, technology codes, proffesing, baptisms, subtle suggestions that not attending regular meetings/missions is bad, excommunication ect ect. All of the flesh. ** FAITH Without good works to show forth is DEAD FAITH/Useless. James the apostle gave us a complete picture of Faith and good works must go hand in hand. just like see someone suffering in pains and dying in a car crash then you say I have faith God will save you and walk away instead find ways/works to help that person. That is Dead FAITH we are talking about without good works to back it up! Talks ONLY! Talks is cheap. like you say you are a Christian but you go to the bar drinking with your work friends after work on every week end, partying, and all sorts of worldly things. These works do not back up with your faith. You were going pretty good until your last paragraph amd fell right back into works salvation. James is talking about types of faith we have established that. He is not saying Faith+works =salvation. He is saying Faith+works vindicate your Faith. The references to Abraham clearly confirm this. Abraham did plenty of good works, even to the point of sacrificing his son. But what justified him before this? Faith!. Before circumcision? Faith!. Its made pretty clear in Romans, I dont see how you can explain away Faith alone =salvation after reading Romans. Your last pragraph is works based salvation. 1 you assume these are worse sins, is their such a thing? all you are doingis comparing different levels of unworthiness!. 2 choosing not to do these things because they are not part of your law is works salvation. 3 your definition of worldy is your law, again works salvation. And to add from a previous post your definition of repentance, "turning from sin" is your law and works salvation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 17:42:19 GMT -5
** FAITH Without good works to show forth is DEAD FAITH/Useless. James the apostle gave us a complete picture of Faith and good works must go hand in hand. just like see someone suffering in pains and dying in a car crash then you say I have faith God will save you and walk away instead find ways/works to help that person. That is Dead FAITH we are talking about without good works to back it up! Talks ONLY! Talks is cheap. like you say you are a Christian but you go to the bar drinking with your work friends after work on every week end, partying, and all sorts of worldly things. These works do not back up with your faith. You were going pretty good until your last paragraph amd fell right back into works salvation. James is talking about types of faith we have established that. He is not saying Faith+works =salvation. He is saying Faith+works vindicate your Faith. The references to Abraham clearly confirm this. Abraham did plenty of good works, even to the point of sacrificing his son. But what justified him before this? Faith!. Before circumcision? Faith!. Its made pretty clear in Romans, I dont see how you can explain away Faith alone =salvation after reading Romans. Your last pragraph is works based salvation. 1 you assume these are worse sins, is their such a thing? all you are doingis comparing different levels of unworthiness!. 2 choosing not to do these things because they are not part of your law is works salvation. 3 your definition of worldy is your law, again works salvation. And to add from a previous post your definition of repentance, "turning from sin" is your law and works salvation. you must bear fruit call it works if you like but Christ was very clear that which does not produce fruit gets cut off and thrown into the fire....
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 17:53:22 GMT -5
You were going pretty good until your last paragraph amd fell right back into works salvation. James is talking about types of faith we have established that. He is not saying Faith+works =salvation. He is saying Faith+works vindicate your Faith. The references to Abraham clearly confirm this. Abraham did plenty of good works, even to the point of sacrificing his son. But what justified him before this? Faith!. Before circumcision? Faith!. Its made pretty clear in Romans, I dont see how you can explain away Faith alone =salvation after reading Romans. Your last pragraph is works based salvation. 1 you assume these are worse sins, is their such a thing? all you are doingis comparing different levels of unworthiness!. 2 choosing not to do these things because they are not part of your law is works salvation. 3 your definition of worldy is your law, again works salvation. And to add from a previous post your definition of repentance, "turning from sin" is your law and works salvation. you must bear fruit call it works if you like but Christ was very clear that which does not produce fruit gets cut off and thrown into the fire.... Please elebaorate, Fruit for salavtion? or fruit vindicates our faith? And which passage is this?. You may want to check what Christ means by fire. What do you think it means?
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 18:09:23 GMT -5
No the works do not justify us, Faith justifies us. Works vindicate true Saving Faith. Just like Abraham in Romans 4:9- This guy explains it really well. youtu.be/lZu0DXcDypEAre you suggesting the works the Friends do are not of the flesh?. Dress codes, technology codes, proffesing, baptisms, subtle suggestions that not attending regular meetings/missions is bad, excommunication ect ect. All of the flesh.I do not know where you get this from? The good works of God, which are a necessary accompaniment of the salvation journey, is quite simply 'obedience to the Word of God.' It is THIS which justifies our faith. Without it, our faith is dead. Works are essential, but first we must understand what the good works of God is. FWIW I am not a two x two. If you want to see faith and works in the correct context you only have to look at the life of Jesus. No need for youtubes, etc. That way you will get it right. No better example. No better reference. The obvious example is the one people want to avoid. Jesus simplified things with two words. 'Follow me!' Get what from? If are works necessary its not a gift. Necessary works is works salvation. Haha no need for youtubes. This guy reads the bible just like you or I. Youtube makes it irrelevant?. I thank God for youtube and the internet. This doesnt just stand for 2x2's, I apologise,I should have eleborated, it stands for all religions and religious beliefs. Yep and how do you follow Jesus?, Trust in him and rejoice he could do what we could not!.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 18:10:49 GMT -5
I find it interesting that the defense for works salvation always falls to James who is not even talking about it!.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 18:18:59 GMT -5
Paul in Philippians 3 sums works salvation up pretty well. "I counted loss for Christ","do count them as dung"
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Oct 24, 2019 19:04:46 GMT -5
** FAITH Without good works to show forth is DEAD FAITH/Useless. James the apostle gave us a complete picture of Faith and good works must go hand in hand. just like see someone suffering in pains and dying in a car crash then you say I have faith God will save you and walk away instead find ways/works to help that person. That is Dead FAITH we are talking about without good works to back it up! Talks ONLY! Talks is cheap. like you say you are a Christian but you go to the bar drinking with your work friends after work on every week end, partying, and all sorts of worldly things. These works do not back up with your faith. You were going pretty good until your last paragraph amd fell right back into works salvation. James is talking about types of faith we have established that. He is not saying Faith+works =salvation. He is saying Faith+works vindicate your Faith. The references to Abraham clearly confirm this. Abraham did plenty of good works, even to the point of sacrificing his son. But what justified him before this? Faith!. Before circumcision? Faith!. Its made pretty clear in Romans, I dont see how you can explain away Faith alone =salvation after reading Romans. Your last pragraph is works based salvation. 1 you assume these are worse sins, is their such a thing? all you are doingis comparing different levels of unworthiness!. 2 choosing not to do these things because they are not part of your law is works salvation. 3 your definition of worldy is your law, again works salvation. And to add from a previous post your definition of repentance, "turning from sin" is your law and works salvation. ** Salvation is a gift from Jesus/Christ. After we become Christians or have received salvation, good works must follow/be lights and salt in the world and to set good examples with our godly behaviors and manners/ways of life among the people of this world. Jesus said let your light so shine before men/women that they may SEE your good works! and glorify your Father who is in heaven. Good works are part or result of our Salvation/Faith.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 19:12:14 GMT -5
Jesus sums it up the best. John 19:30 "IT IS FINISHED"
Like the day of atonement when the priest said the same thing and sat down. The work was done!. Jesus sat down at the right hand of god. Hebrews 10:11-14. The work is done!.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Oct 24, 2019 19:24:22 GMT -5
Jesus sums it up the best. John 19:30 "IT IS FINISHED" Like the day of atonement when the priest said the same thing and sat down. The work was done!. Jesus sat down at the right hand of god. Hebrews 10:11-14. The work is done!. ** You are taken what Jesus said OUT OF CONTEXT! what Jesus meant was when he said it is FINISHED! The ransome price for the sins of humanity is finished or paid in FULL NOT about good works are finished. We Christians will be REWARDED by God the Father and Christ for all the Good works we have done here on earth, when Jesus returns as King of kings on the earth during the 1000 yrs reign.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 19:25:10 GMT -5
You were going pretty good until your last paragraph amd fell right back into works salvation. James is talking about types of faith we have established that. He is not saying Faith+works =salvation. He is saying Faith+works vindicate your Faith. The references to Abraham clearly confirm this. Abraham did plenty of good works, even to the point of sacrificing his son. But what justified him before this? Faith!. Before circumcision? Faith!. Its made pretty clear in Romans, I dont see how you can explain away Faith alone =salvation after reading Romans. Your last pragraph is works based salvation. 1 you assume these are worse sins, is their such a thing? all you are doingis comparing different levels of unworthiness!. 2 choosing not to do these things because they are not part of your law is works salvation. 3 your definition of worldy is your law, again works salvation. And to add from a previous post your definition of repentance, "turning from sin" is your law and works salvation. ** Salvation is a gift from Jesus/Christ. After we become Christians or have received salvation, good works must follow/be lights and salt in the world and to set good examples with our godly behaviors and manners/ways of life among the people of this world. Jesus said let your light so shine before men/women that they may SEE your good works! and glorify your Father who is in heaven. Good works are part or result of our Salvation/Faith. Words like MUST and PART turns it into works salvation.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Oct 24, 2019 19:31:42 GMT -5
** Salvation is a gift from Jesus/Christ. After we become Christians or have received salvation, good works must follow/be lights and salt in the world and to set good examples with our godly behaviors and manners/ways of life among the people of this world. Jesus said let your light so shine before men/women that they may SEE your good works! and glorify your Father who is in heaven. Good works are part or result of our Salvation/Faith. Words like MUST and PART turns it into works salvation. ** God will REWARDS us/Christians for all the good works we have done here on earth that is to glorify God's name. Salvation is already attain, we will receive rewards from God for all the good works we have done in God and jesus names. Some Christians will rule over 5 cities and others rule over 10 cities.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Oct 24, 2019 19:55:17 GMT -5
If by that you mean people go up or down after death? The strict binary is nihilistic. Existential nihilism? Is there any other kind? I guess in a world of fake news we could have fake nihilism. I can think of one example already. Some say Jesus and his followers were nihilistic for celebrating his death. They were considered atheists for not worshiping the Caesars. ...I say its fake nihilism. In fact he was resurrected. In fact he couldn't really die. Can you?
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 20:11:19 GMT -5
Jesus sums it up the best. John 19:30 "IT IS FINISHED" Like the day of atonement when the priest said the same thing and sat down. The work was done!. Jesus sat down at the right hand of god. Hebrews 10:11-14. The work is done!. ** You are taken what Jesus said OUT OF CONTEXT! what Jesus meant was when he said it is FINISHED! The ransome price for the sins of humanity is finished or paid in FULL NOT about good works are finished. We Christians will be REWARDED by God the Father and Christ for all the Good works we have done here on earth, when Jesus returns as King of kings on the earth during the 1000 yrs reign. How did I take it out of context?. Leviticus 16/day of atonement says thrle same thing. Hebrews 10 says the same thing. Book of Romans confirms it as well as a miriad of other passages. It does not matter what good works you do as Christ has done the work that we could never do. To put it another way. Has your goat left? or do you have to getting more goats and keep sending them away?. Christ has sat down!. Rewards in heaven is different to salvation.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 20:13:19 GMT -5
Words like MUST and PART turns it into works salvation. ** God will REWARDS us/Christians for all the good works we have done here on earth that is to glorify God's name. Salvation is already attain, we will receive rewards from God for all the good works we have done in God and jesus names. Some Christians will rule over 5 cities and others rule over 10 cities. Finally I agree. You have not tied works to salvation šššš.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 20:43:45 GMT -5
you must bear fruit call it works if you like but Christ was very clear that which does not produce fruit gets cut off and thrown into the fire.... Please elebaorate, Fruit for salavtion? or fruit vindicates our faith? And which passage is this?. You may want to check what Christ means by fire. What do you think it means? Mat_7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Luk_13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. Joh_15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Oct 24, 2019 21:10:52 GMT -5
** God will REWARDS us/Christians for all the good works we have done here on earth that is to glorify God's name. Salvation is already attain, we will receive rewards from God for all the good works we have done in God and jesus names. Some Christians will rule over 5 cities and others rule over 10 cities. Finally I agree. You have not tied works to salvation šššš. Great, we agree. We read in the New Testament that God gave people who had shown good works, kindness to their fellows men/women in Acts 10 the Roman Centurion was granted an opportunity in hearing the Gospel to receive Salvation/gift of God the Father through Jesus Christ. Accepting Jesus SAVED the Centurion man and his family.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 22:38:06 GMT -5
Please elebaorate, Fruit for salavtion? or fruit vindicates our faith? And which passage is this?. You may want to check what Christ means by fire. What do you think it means? Mat_7:19Ā Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Luk_13:9Ā And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. Joh_15:2Ā Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. So are you saying if we produce fruit we are saved?. First two are refering to repent unto salvation. So change your thinking and trust in Jesus for salvation, not your own works. Read into the translation of Taketh away. It can ne translated "Lift up" Im not saying it is correct but brings a whole mew dynamic to this passage and is in fitting with the grace of God.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 23:15:09 GMT -5
Mat_7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Luk_13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. Joh_15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. So are you saying if we produce fruit we are saved?. First two are refering to repent unto salvation. So change your thinking and trust in Jesus for salvation, not your own works. Read into the translation of Taketh away. It can ne translated "Lift up" Im not saying it is correct but brings a whole mew dynamic to this passage and is in fitting with the grace of God. those verses are very clear....
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 25, 2019 2:44:02 GMT -5
So are you saying if we produce fruit we are saved?. First two are refering to repent unto salvation. So change your thinking and trust in Jesus for salvation, not your own works. Read into the translation of Taketh away. It can ne translated "Lift up" Im not saying it is correct but brings a whole mew dynamic to this passage and is in fitting with the grace of God. those verses are very clear.... So what do you think the fire is Wally? Who was Jesus talking to?
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 25, 2019 3:17:04 GMT -5
Jesus sums it up the best. John 19:30 "IT IS FINISHED" Like the day of atonement when the priest said the same thing and sat down. The work was done!. Jesus sat down at the right hand of god. Hebrews 10:11-14. The work is done!. Spin it how you like Chuck. We are to be followers of Christ. Period. We are to be ensamples of Christ. If you want to follow Jesus just look to his example in all things. Jesus did not believe in a 'human works' gospel. The man Christ Jesus tells us that of himself he is NOTHING! All that he spake and all the deeds or works that he did were not his own but were the Father's, who worked in and through him. It is exactly the same for true followers of Christ. Of ourselves we are nothing. Our own works are absolutely nothing. Jesus did all that God his Father had prepared in advance for him to do. We likewise are CLEARLY told that we are called to do the works of God in our lives. It's the same way, the same truth and the same life that Jesus followed, which leads us to the Father. Why is it that every time it is pointed out that truly believing in Jesus means following him in his way, his truth and his life, we get instant rebellion from the 'free gifters?' Jesus lived a life of faith in his God. He submitted to God's will 100%, allowing God to do many great works through him. He didn't yack on about God's grace being a free gift and there was no need for works. The Apostle John tells us that Jesus was FULL of Grace and Truth (God's grace and truth). It was that God given grace that empowered Jesus to do all the works that God had planned for him to do. Yes Jesus tells us his own works availed for nothing because he said that of himself he could do nothing and could only achieve anything by the Father's will and help. Salvation is NOT a one off event. It is a life's journey, however long or short that may be. Whatever way you look at it, works are an essential part of that journey. But it is God's works, not our own. Just look at Jesus to see how it 'works!' Here's the verses in Ephesians 2 yet again. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are created in Christ Jesus to do good WORKS which God hath ordained for us to do. He grants us grace to enable us to do them. You can put up all the arguments that you want against works. Spin it how you will, but whatever you say, the truth of the matter remains....works is an essential part of salvation. It is what we are called in Christ Jesus to do.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 25, 2019 3:40:22 GMT -5
Chuck opined:
If are works necessary its not a gift. Necessary works is works salvation.
Please keep in mind this is your interpretation and is being used by you to try and justify your viewpoint. Nothing else!
God owes us nothing. By virtue of our fallen human nature we deserve the just punishment of God. Period.
God in his great love and mercy does not desire that anyone should perish. He has designed a way that allows us to be redeemed. God was under no obligation to do this. It is a plan or gesture of his own free will. Keep that in mind. We need his grace to allow us to do his will. God gives us this. It is a gift. We cannot buy it. It is dependent upon the love and mercy of God. No one can do the will of God but that God gives them grace to do it.
The whole purpose of our calling in Christ Jesus is to follow Jesus in his way, his truth and his life, which leads us to the Father. Without God's gift of grace we cannot do this. God does not have to impart his grace to us. But we need it to do the good works that God has ordained for us to do.
Our good works are the light of the Christ within. They are an essential part of salvation. No getting away from it.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Oct 25, 2019 4:29:33 GMT -5
Is there any other kind? <snip> Yes.
Moral nihilism.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 25, 2019 8:53:24 GMT -5
Jesus sums it up the best. John 19:30 "IT IS FINISHED" Like the day of atonement when the priest said the same thing and sat down. The work was done!. Jesus sat down at the right hand of god. Hebrews 10:11-14. The work is done!. Spin it how you like Chuck. We are to be followers of Christ. Period. We are to be ensamples of Christ. If you want to follow Jesus just look to his example in all things. Jesus did not believe in a 'human works' gospel. The man Christ Jesus tells us that of himself he is NOTHING! All that he spake and all the deeds or works that he did were not his own but were the Father's, who worked in and through him. It is exactly the same for true followers of Christ. Of ourselves we are nothing. Our own works are absolutely nothing. Jesus did all that God his Father had prepared in advance for him to do. We likewise are CLEARLY told that we are called to do the works of God in our lives. It's the same way, the same truth and the same life that Jesus followed, which leads us to the Father. Why is it that every time it is pointed out that truly believing in Jesus means following him in his way, his truth and his life, we get instant rebellion from the 'free gifters?' Jesus lived a life of faith in his God. He submitted to God's will 100%, allowing God to do many great works through him. He didn't yack on about God's grace being a free gift and there was no need for works. The Apostle John tells us that Jesus was FULL of Grace and Truth (God's grace and truth). It was that God given grace that empowered Jesus to do all the works that God had planned for him to do. Yes Jesus tells us his own works availed for nothing because he said that of himself he could do nothing and could only achieve anything by the Father's will and help. Salvation is NOT a one off event. It is a life's journey, however long or short that may be. Whatever way you look at it, works are an essential part of that journey. But it is God's works, not our own. Just look at Jesus to see how it 'works!' Here's the verses in Ephesians 2 yet again. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are created in Christ Jesus to do good WORKS which God hath ordained for us to do. He grants us grace to enable us to do them. You can put up all the arguments that you want against works. Spin it how you will, but whatever you say, the truth of the matter remains....works is an essential part of salvation. It is what we are called in Christ Jesus to do. I didn't spin anything. Go research it and come back and explain how the work for salvation isn't finished!. Hebrews 10:11-14 is a good start. Also research the practices on the day of Atonement, it backs up Hebrews 10:11-14. You get instant rebellion because you trample on the blood of the lamb when you say works are a necessity,essential ect ect for salvation. If they are why did Jesus sit down?, why did he say "it is finished"?, but according to you its not finished and its on going and we have to do good works to attain it because faith alone isn't enough, the blood of the lamb didn't quite do the job, just needs some good works to finish it off!. Your hung up on verse 10. I agree with verse 10 and I assume all christians would, but it doesnt save you. Verse 8-9 explain why. As do all the other verses I mentioned yesterday. You blew past verses 8-9 and then dropped this pealer "You can put up all the arguments that you want against works. Spin it how you will, but whatever you say, the truth of the matter remains....works is an essential part of salvation"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2019 8:53:55 GMT -5
those verses are very clear.... So what do you think the fire is Wally? Who was Jesus talking to? fire in this context is about destruction..everyone of course ...
|
|