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Post by vanillagorilla on Oct 22, 2019 15:25:09 GMT -5
That's what we call an "Indian Giver". Normally not considered an honest gift. FWIW If you don't use the lawnmower to cut the grass faithfully, God will tie you up and run you over with the lawnmower blades turned on. He will chop you to pieces and inflict unbelievable agony on you with his lawnmower of wrath. That's how amazing and loving he is. Maybe the parable of the lawnmower would work better today with young people that the parable of the talents. those boots are atrocious!
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Post by mountain on Oct 22, 2019 17:08:39 GMT -5
That's what we call an "Indian Giver". Normally not considered an honest gift. FWIW If you don't use the lawnmower to cut the grass faithfully, God will tie you up and run you over with the lawnmower blades turned on. He will chop you to pieces and inflict unbelievable agony on you with his lawnmower of wrath. That's how amazing and loving he is. Maybe the parable of the lawnmower would work better today with young people that the parable of the talents. I wasn't meaning a lawn mower that you sit on. I had one of the Flymo push types in mind.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 22, 2019 18:16:55 GMT -5
That's what we call an "Indian Giver". Normally not considered an honest gift. FWIW Sorry Bob, I couldn't disagree more. If I give a free gift to someone, I try to think of something they will use, e.g. a lawnmower, a book, clothing, food, etc. If they are not going to use it, it is a waste of time. Even a gift of an ornament has its uses! Good for you. But do you take it back if they don't do with it what you want?
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 22, 2019 18:20:01 GMT -5
The joy is in the giving, not in the supervision of how the gift was given. It's not really a gift if (1) it comes with mandatory manner of using it, and (2) if the giver punishes the receiver for not appreciating it. That makes it an ultimatum. But what god has given gets to be a problem. If god gives us everything, then for some people god has given insufferable "non-gifts", so to speak. Or, is his only gift the possibility of waiting for an eternal life if you have the wherewithal to acceptably appreciate and understand it in all its theoretical qualifying beliefs. Given this state of affairs, why is there an exception for the severely mentally retarded? Supervision and intended purpose are two very different things, separated at least by a measure of trust. God's free gift of salvation (a misnomer in my view) is likened in one place to the servants who received 5, 3 and one talents. There are other examples. The labourers who were hired to work in the vineyard. You won't have to look far to find other examples. Now the "free gift" is a misnomer. So you DO agree with me -- there were strings attached to the "free" gift. That's what I was explaining.
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Post by Gene on Oct 22, 2019 18:31:52 GMT -5
But if God gives you something.... Are you really gonna sit on it? There is more joy in giving than receiving.... God should be even more happy, then, if he gives without receiving something in return.
Who am I, to stand in the way of God's happiness?
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Post by Lee on Oct 22, 2019 19:17:42 GMT -5
Who are you to get in the way of your own?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 19:19:51 GMT -5
If you don't use the lawnmower to cut the grass faithfully, God will tie you up and run you over with the lawnmower blades turned on. He will chop you to pieces and inflict unbelievable agony on you with his lawnmower of wrath. That's how amazing and loving he is. Maybe the parable of the lawnmower would work better today with young people that the parable of the talents. those boots are atrocious! That’s not even a human body! It’s a stuffed jeans! 😀
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Post by Lee on Oct 22, 2019 19:20:20 GMT -5
But if God gives you something.... Are you really gonna sit on it? There is more joy in giving than receiving.... Can you think of any worthwhile gift that does not have its uses? Even the gift of love has worthwhile benefits for the receiver! No and right!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 19:29:50 GMT -5
Sorry Bob, I couldn't disagree more. If I give a free gift to someone, I try to think of something they will use, e.g. a lawnmower, a book, clothing, food, etc. If they are not going to use it, it is a waste of time. Even a gift of an ornament has its uses! Good for you. But do you take it back if they don't do with it what you want? But it’s my understanding that God doesn’t take back free salvation once he gives it. Paul tried to address this in relation to the man who’d committed adultery with his father’s wife. Paul said to deliver such s one to Satan to destroy the flesh’s works or deeds but their soul is saved. I’ve heard that God won’t take back salvation because it would be to take back his promise of why Jesus died to set us free from our sins. In the other hand people seem to think they’ll lose their salvation but the issue is they lose any rewards for their deeds because their deeds do not stand the test by fire. People argue about people being lost after profession of faith as in losing their salvation, that’s not what it was at all! They were never saved at all! Not that they can never be saved but at the time they had never been saved. After the Holy Spirit brings a born-again spirit unto a human being there will be no loss, no going back, no losing out. There may come a dry spell without outward evidence of that life(rarely) but they will have eternal salvation because those born-again spirits are out there by the powers of God through the Holy Spirit and are kept by the Holy Spirit. I experienced that power of keeping by the Holy Spirit, so I can truthfully say that’s the way we are kept within our salvation.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 22, 2019 19:42:09 GMT -5
Good for you. But do you take it back if they don't do with it what you want? But it’s my understanding that God doesn’t take back free salvation once he gives it. Paul tried to address this in relation to the man who’d committed adultery with his father’s wife. Paul said to deliver such s one to Satan to destroy the flesh’s works or deeds but their soul is saved. I’ve heard that God won’t take back salvation because it would be to take back his promise of why Jesus died to set us free from our sins. In the other hand people seem to think they’ll lose their salvation but the issue is they lose any rewards for their deeds because their deeds do not stand the test by fire. People argue about people being lost after profession of faith as in losing their salvation, that’s not what it was at all! They were never saved at all! Not that they can never be saved but at the time they had never been saved. After the Holy Spirit brings a born-again spirit unto a human being there will be no loss, no going back, no losing out. There may come a dry spell without outward evidence of that life(rarely) but they will have eternal salvation because those born-again spirits are out there by the powers of God through the Holy Spirit and are kept by the Holy Spirit. I experienced that power of keeping by the Holy Spirit, so I can truthfully say that’s the way we are kept within our salvation. That is the most circular reasoning of all. Once saved always saved, except if you're not behaving you were never saved to begin with. The result is the "Family" philosophy, prime backers of Trumpism -- they are saved so they have forgiveness immediately as they commit a sin or crime, because since they believe they are still saved. In other words, just make sure you believe and you can really get off with anything, just because you fully believe. It's not a lesson in morality.
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Post by nathan on Oct 22, 2019 19:48:28 GMT -5
Good for you. But do you take it back if they don't do with it what you want? But it’s my understanding that God doesn’t take back free salvation once he gives it. Paul tried to address this in relation to the man who’d committed adultery with his father’s wife. Paul said to deliver such s one to Satan to destroy the flesh’s works or deeds but their soul is saved. I’ve heard that God won’t take back salvation because it would be to take back his promise of why Jesus died to set us free from our sins. In the other hand people seem to think they’ll lose their salvation but the issue is they lose any rewards for their deeds because their deeds do not stand the test by fire. People argue about people being lost after profession of faith as in losing their salvation, that’s not what it was at all! They were never saved at all! Not that they can never be saved but at the time they had never been saved. After the Holy Spirit brings a born-again spirit unto a human being there will be no loss, no going back, no losing out. There may come a dry spell without outward evidence of that life(rarely) but they will have eternal salvation because those born-again spirits are out there by the powers of God through the Holy Spirit and are kept by the Holy Spirit. I experienced that power of keeping by the Holy Spirit, so I can truthfully say that’s the way we are kept within our salvation. ** What do you mean God doesn't take back free salvation once he gives it? Have you read about the 7 churches in revelation? Jesus/God told many of the believers in those churches to REPENT of their sins or He would remove their crowns of life and their names from the book of life. If they were NOT saved then why would Jesus send them warnings to REPENT or He would erase their names from the book of life. It's NOT over until the fat lady's sings you know.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 20:17:31 GMT -5
But it’s my understanding that God doesn’t take back free salvation once he gives it. Paul tried to address this in relation to the man who’d committed adultery with his father’s wife. Paul said to deliver such s one to Satan to destroy the flesh’s works or deeds but their soul is saved. I’ve heard that God won’t take back salvation because it would be to take back his promise of why Jesus died to set us free from our sins. In the other hand people seem to think they’ll lose their salvation but the issue is they lose any rewards for their deeds because their deeds do not stand the test by fire. People argue about people being lost after profession of faith as in losing their salvation, that’s not what it was at all! They were never saved at all! Not that they can never be saved but at the time they had never been saved. After the Holy Spirit brings a born-again spirit unto a human being there will be no loss, no going back, no losing out. There may come a dry spell without outward evidence of that life(rarely) but they will have eternal salvation because those born-again spirits are out there by the powers of God through the Holy Spirit and are kept by the Holy Spirit. I experienced that power of keeping by the Holy Spirit, so I can truthfully say that’s the way we are kept within our salvation. That is the most circular reasoning of all. Once saved always saved, except if you're not behaving you were never saved to begin with. The result is the "Family" philosophy, prime backers of Trumpism -- they are saved so they have forgiveness immediately as they commit a sin or crime, because since they believe they are still saved. In other words, just make sure you believe and you can really get off with anything, just because you fully believe. It's not a lesson in morality. It’s actually about the keeping by the Holy Spirit! There is nothing that says even though eternal life is given that deeds aren’t paid for. Fact is, it says we will all answer for our deeds done on earth. I’m not sure what the penalty for repeated sins/offenses will be exactly but it’s written in Hebrews 10:26. For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, WHICH shall DEVOUR the adversaries. So it seems to me, that such people were never saved to start with! However just as it’s been said that the people who worship the beasts in Revelations 13 have never been saved because those whom God has imputed Jesus’Christ’s righteousness to will be kept by the Holy Spirit and those beasts do not hold any interest for the saved or elect of God. Immoral? Not really! Do people use it for their immoral excuses? Yes, just as people use Christianity to be unloving, unChristlike. Just as the Catholic massacres of years gone by were excused because they thought they had Christ!s blessing. But remember Jesus said there'd be those who would persecute and kill God’s people because they thought to be doing God a service. Even Paul was some such, but his salvation didn’t cone until he was converted into the true Christian Faith-living his neighbors as himself-he said he became as everyone; poor to poor, Jew to Jew, Gentile to Gentile, crippled or maimed to the same kind... in and in as such. There is nothing Christlike in immorality!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 20:32:09 GMT -5
But it’s my understanding that God doesn’t take back free salvation once he gives it. Paul tried to address this in relation to the man who’d committed adultery with his father’s wife. Paul said to deliver such s one to Satan to destroy the flesh’s works or deeds but their soul is saved. I’ve heard that God won’t take back salvation because it would be to take back his promise of why Jesus died to set us free from our sins. In the other hand people seem to think they’ll lose their salvation but the issue is they lose any rewards for their deeds because their deeds do not stand the test by fire. People argue about people being lost after profession of faith as in losing their salvation, that’s not what it was at all! They were never saved at all! Not that they can never be saved but at the time they had never been saved. After the Holy Spirit brings a born-again spirit unto a human being there will be no loss, no going back, no losing out. There may come a dry spell without outward evidence of that life(rarely) but they will have eternal salvation because those born-again spirits are out there by the powers of God through the Holy Spirit and are kept by the Holy Spirit. I experienced that power of keeping by the Holy Spirit, so I can truthfully say that’s the way we are kept within our salvation. ** What do you mean God doesn't take back free salvation once he gives it? Have you read about the 7 churches in revelation? Jesus/God told many of the believers in those churches to REPENT of their sins or He would remove their crowns of life and their names from the book of life. If they were NOT saved then why would Jesus send them warnings to REPENT or He would erase their names from the book of life. It's NOT over until the fat lady's sings you know. You need to reread those accounts. First he says he will give according to your works. That has to do with deeds not salvation. It says that we will all answer for our deeds done in earth. Those whom were holding those whom Jesus hated the doctrines of, he says he’d come and fight against “them” with the sword of his mouth. He’d correct then severely and cut out that which was not right by the Word of God. Still not to do with salvation but deeds. The “blotting our of Book” is not a warning but a promise. Revelations 3:4-5. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments ; and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy. “HE THAT OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK of LIFE, but will confess his name before my Father , and before his angels.” 2x2s have always tended to read those 7 churches letters with negativity, forgetting that God is love. Though Jesus mentioned things he was disappointed in some of them, he gave corrective things for them to do with promises of what those corrrctions would bring for them. If you want someone to do better, you don’t address them with degrading tones or or else’s. Jesus really didn’t. The only negative dress-down Jesus did was to the scribes and Pharisees but we can see that by his beginning addressed “Woe...” Jesus said while in earth that those who were not faithful in watching and praying when he returns that they will be assigned their rewards with the unbelievers.
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Post by speak on Oct 22, 2019 20:58:23 GMT -5
Do you think He is in satan and those who follow him? Is He deep down inside of them? I responded to your question : Do you think that being on TBM is spending time with God? My point is that God can be with any human being as they allow him to be. No person can denounce another's personal relationship with God, and state whether or not God is with them- whether at convention or on TMB. And your recent question asked if He is in Satan? Are you asking if God is in Satan? I wouldn't know, I don't follow Satan nor do I know these answers which will never be definitively answered here. People can post their opinions, but we won't know in this lifetime on earth. As they allow Him to be with them? God chooses not mankind. If you follow Christ you would know if God was in satan or not.
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Post by nathan on Oct 22, 2019 21:02:31 GMT -5
You need to reread those accounts. First he says he will give according to your works. That has to do with deeds not salvation. It says that we will all answer for our deeds done in earth. Those whom were holding those whom Jesus hated the doctrines of, he says he’d come and fight against “them” with the sword of his mouth. He’d correct then severely and cut out that which was not right by the Word of God. Still not to do with salvation but deeds. The “blotting our of Book” is not a warning but a promise. Revelations 3:4-5. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments ; and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy. “HE THAT OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK of LIFE, but will confess his name before my Father , and before his angels.” 2x2s have always tended to read those 7 churches letters with negativity, forgetting that God is love. Though Jesus mentioned things he was disappointed in some of them, he gave corrective things for them to do with promises of what those corrrctions would bring for them. If you want someone to do better, you don’t address them with degrading tones or or else’s. Jesus really didn’t. The only negative dress-down Jesus did was to the scribes and Pharisees but we can see that by his beginning addressed “Woe...” Jesus said while in earth that those who were not faithful in watching and praying when he returns that they will be assigned their rewards with the unbelievers. ** If Jesus/God has assigned the Christians who were NOT faitful with the unbelievers, then He/Jesus had taken back a place for them in His heavenly kingdom/Home= Salvation. Remember Jesus parable of the 1,5 and 10 talents? When the king/Jesus returns he will punish the 1 talent who buried his money/revelation/not sharing the gospel with others. He was cast in outer darkness with unbelievers= lost his salvation or place in heaven. Jesus will reward the faithful 5 and 10 talents to rule over many cities on earth when he returns and a place in His heavenly kingdom after the 1000 yrs were finished.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 21:16:39 GMT -5
** If Jesus/God has assigned the Christians who were NOT faitful with the unbelievers, then He/Jesus had taken back a place for them in His heavenly kingdom/Home= Salvation. Remember Jesus parable of the 1,5 and 10 talents? When the king/Jesus returns he will punish the 1 talent who buried his money/revelation/not sharing the gospel with others. He was cast in outer darkness with unbelievers= lost his salvation or place in heaven. Jesus will reward the faithful 5 and 10 talents to rule over many cities on earth when he returns and a place in His heavenly kingdom after the 1000 yrs were finished. Rewards, Nathan, not salvation. Don’t be like 2x2s and keep them mixed up. There’s a world of difference.
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Post by openingact34 on Oct 22, 2019 21:20:15 GMT -5
I wasn't meaning a lawn mower that you sit on. I had one of the Flymo push types in mind. I think a riding mower is needed given the magnitude of bloodthirsty carnage planned. Revelation 14:20 says the river of blood will be 180 miles long and 4 feet deep.
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Post by nathan on Oct 22, 2019 21:28:27 GMT -5
Rewards, Nathan, not salvation. Don’t be like 2x2s and keep them mixed up. There’s a world of difference. Salvation and REWARDS go hand in hand.... The Tares, goats, 5 foolish virgins, and 1 talent lost their places in heaven and cast out to be with the unbelievers to dwell in eternal darkness= He/she lost his/her Salvation means NOT to be with God, Christ and His people in heaven for eternity.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 22:06:49 GMT -5
Rewards, Nathan, not salvation. Don’t be like 2x2s and keep them mixed up. There’s a world of difference. Salvation and REWARDS go hand in hand.... The Tares, goats, 5 foolish virgins, and 1 talent lost their places in heaven and cast out to be with the unbelievers to dwell in eternal darkness= He/she lost his/her Salvation means NOT to be with God, Christ and His people in heaven for eternity.No Nathan they do not go hand in hand. If they did there’d be no books of deeds at Judgment Day. There’d be no redeemed going to Oaradise to await resurrection. The redeemed will have to face judgment for their deeds in earth, thus the books of deeds on earth being at Judgment Day. Remember there is only ONE sin that is unforgivable-blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Salvation is by faith, faith is a gift from God, lest any man should boast. That in itself says deeds have nothing to do with salvation. Remember those who Jesus said would come to him and say all they had done in his name? Yet he will say I know you not, Depart from me.? These are those who think their deeds will save them. What saves us? True believing in Jesus Christ. That includes believing what the Father has given on record about his Son. If we don’t fully, truly believe in Jesus Christ’s sacrifice is enough to save us from our sins and that it takes our deeds to do that then we are not truly believing that Jesus’ sacrifice is enough to save us. This is what happens from a works based salvation but that is not biblical. The works come after salvation where because of being born again in the spirit by the Spirit, we have such love and gratefulness in our hearts for his great love, mercy and grace; we endeavor or we’re moved to do that which pleases our God.
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Post by nathan on Oct 23, 2019 0:23:02 GMT -5
Salvation and REWARDS go hand in hand.... The Tares, goats, 5 foolish virgins, and 1 talent lost their places in heaven and cast out to be with the unbelievers to dwell in eternal darkness= He/she lost his/her Salvation means NOT to be with God, Christ and His people in heaven for eternity. No, Nathan they do not go hand in hand. If they did there’d be no books of deeds at Judgment Day. There’d be no redeemed going to paradise to await resurrection. The redeemed will have to face judgment for their deeds in earth, thus the books of deeds on earth being at Judgment Day. Books of good, evil deeds and rewards of the faithful and unfaithful, believers and unbelievers are being recorded and are kept in heaven to be revealed before the judgment seat of Christ and the Final of judgment day before God the Father.
Salvation is by faith, faith is a gift from God, lest any man should boast. That in itself says deeds have nothing to do with salvation. Remember those who Jesus said would come to him and say all they had done in his name? Yet he will say I know you not, Depart from me.? These are those who think their deeds will save them. God, Jesus and Holy Spirit did NOT call and send these people (Matthew 7:21-28) into the world with the gospel in God's name. They did many wonderful charities deeds, had the power to do miracles, and preached in God and Christ's name but they were rejected because God did NOT send them.
What saves us? True believing in Jesus Christ. That includes believing what the Father has given on record about his Son. If we don’t fully, truly believe in Jesus Christ’s sacrifice is enough to save us from our sins and that it takes our deeds to do that then we are not truly believing that Jesus’ sacrifice is enough to save us. This is what happens from a works based salvation but that is not biblical. The works come after salvation where because of being born again in the spirit by the Spirit, we have such love and gratefulness in our hearts for his great love, mercy and grace; we endeavor or we’re moved to do that which pleases our God. Yes, I agree Yes, believing in Jesus Christ SAVES us, but good deeds in our lives on earth will be rewarded by God. Salvation goes before works, they go together as one.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2019 1:15:43 GMT -5
No, they do not go as one! Paul would not have written about turning someone over to Satan to destroy the flesh but save his soul if that were so.
Goid works follow salvation. The Holy Spirit keeps those whom God has granted salvation. Why do you think Jesus said in his prayer to say, “keep us from the evil”.?
It works. That way. Once God gives salvation, imputing Jesus’ righteousness to the one who professes faith entirely on Jesus’ sacrifice to save them, then ZGod gives them salvation, establishes their safekeeping to the Holy Spirit. He does not lightly give salvation to take it back. This all comes back to the many are called but few are chosen. When God has chosen a soul to save, they ARE HIS! It tells about those who will be awed by the beasts in Revelations but those who are God’s elect will not be phased or tempted by those beasts. The witness(Holy Spirit) within a true believer will keep them from the evil.
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Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 2:03:49 GMT -5
Sorry Bob, I couldn't disagree more. If I give a free gift to someone, I try to think of something they will use, e.g. a lawnmower, a book, clothing, food, etc. If they are not going to use it, it is a waste of time. Even a gift of an ornament has its uses! Good for you. But do you take it back if they don't do with it what you want? Sometimes that has happened, or been given it back.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2019 2:12:57 GMT -5
Good for you. But do you take it back if they don't do with it what you want? Sometimes that has happened, or been given it back. I don't accept gifts from people who I suspect are giving me the responsibility of doing with it what they expect me to do with it.
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Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 2:19:17 GMT -5
Supervision and intended purpose are two very different things, separated at least by a measure of trust. God's free gift of salvation (a misnomer in my view) is likened in one place to the servants who received 5, 3 and one talents. There are other examples. The labourers who were hired to work in the vineyard. You won't have to look far to find other examples. Now the "free gift" is a misnomer. So you DO agree with me -- there were strings attached to the "free" gift. That's what I was explaining. Since this discussion is based upon Ephesians 2 where are considering the 'gift of God' we see on this occasion that the term 'free' is not used. However we do know that God gives freely to those who do his will. If we study the passages below we can readily see that the gift of grace is inextricably linked to doing the good works of God. Not our own works, but God's works. Now we can look upon doing God's works as 'strings' attached to his grace if you like, but lawnmower analogy is clearly evident. Grace is only the beginning. Basically we cannot do the works of God but that he gives us grace to do them. Grace has a purpose. We get it to do something with it! As James writes, we are justified by our good works. Call it strings, conditions, whatever. It is necessary. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
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Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 2:26:29 GMT -5
Sometimes that has happened, or been given it back. I don't accept gifts from people who I suspect are giving me the responsibility of doing with it what they expect me to do with it. It's all in the spirit of giving and receiving. Your birthday is coming up. I notice your lawn is desperately needing cut, but you don't have a lawnmower and you are finding things a bit tight financially. I decide to gift you a lawnmower to help you keep your lawn neat and tidy. I am giving it to you in good spirit. Whether you receive the gift or not is up to you. I am providing the means, that's all I can do. How many reject the gift of grace because they don't want the responsibility?
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Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 2:29:15 GMT -5
Rewards, Nathan, not salvation. Don’t be like 2x2s and keep them mixed up. There’s a world of difference. Salvation and REWARDS go hand in hand.... The Tares, goats, 5 foolish virgins, and 1 talent lost their places in heaven and cast out to be with the unbelievers to dwell in eternal darkness= He/she lost his/her Salvation means NOT to be with God, Christ and His people in heaven for eternity.Nathan, you and Virgs are not far apart on some things!
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Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 2:32:32 GMT -5
I wasn't meaning a lawn mower that you sit on. I had one of the Flymo push types in mind. I think a riding mower is needed given the magnitude of bloodthirsty carnage planned. Revelation 14:20 says the river of blood will be 180 miles long and 4 feet deep. I'm still on the milk, not the cream!
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2019 2:43:42 GMT -5
Or could it be that if MAN had been the one who had did the creating and man created GOD in his (man's) own image, might that explain the reason that a supposed loving GOD did such terrible things as ordering the killing all of another tribe even to the "sucking" child? Absolutely 100% correct. I couldn't agree with you more. Straight out of the imaginings of man! You mean that you agree that the bible is NOT the word of god but the word of man?
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