|
Post by dmmichgood on Oct 23, 2019 2:46:16 GMT -5
If you don't use the lawnmower to cut the grass faithfully, God will tie you up and run you over with the lawnmower blades turned on. He will chop you to pieces and inflict unbelievable agony on you with his lawnmower of wrath. That's how amazing and loving he is. Maybe the parable of the lawnmower would work better today with young people that the parable of the talents. those boots are atrocious! Well Hey! At least he wore the right kind of shoes for mowing!
|
|
|
Post by vanillagorilla on Oct 23, 2019 9:58:08 GMT -5
I responded to your question : Do you think that being on TBM is spending time with God? My point is that God can be with any human being as they allow him to be. No person can denounce another's personal relationship with God, and state whether or not God is with them- whether at convention or on TMB. And your recent question asked if He is in Satan? Are you asking if God is in Satan? I wouldn't know, I don't follow Satan nor do I know these answers which will never be definitively answered here. People can post their opinions, but we won't know in this lifetime on earth. As they allow Him to be with them? God chooses not mankind. If you follow Christ you would know if God was in satan or not. So are you a self appointed authority to make this statement? If i follow christ then I would know if God was in Satan or not? really? LOL nope, you are not that authority. Come down from your soap box. there are many people who follow christ who know varying degrees of information, and I can assure you that they are not influenced by you or aware of your statement.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 10:40:20 GMT -5
Absolutely 100% correct. I couldn't agree with you more. Straight out of the imaginings of man! You mean that you agree that the bible is NOT the word of god but the word of man?
It depends which version. For instance, I would put no trust in the East Eritrean 4th Edition (Dutch translation).
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2019 10:50:13 GMT -5
As they allow Him to be with them? God chooses not mankind. If you follow Christ you would know if God was in satan or not. So are you a self appointed authority to make this statement? If i follow christ then I would know if God was in Satan or not? really? LOL nope, you are not that authority. Come down from your soap box. there are many people who follow christ who know varying degrees of information, and I can assure you that they are not influenced by you or aware of your statement. Agreed! As to God being in Satan? God created Satan. God has had feelings toward Satan, as God told Satan he’d made Satan the morning star, the angel of light. If we think that God just up and cuts iniquitous beings out of his mind just because they’ve disobeyed, then we might as well just all hang it up and die for all eternity. Did not Satan tell Jesus during temptation of Jesus that Satan had been given the powers to give Jesus all that he could desire on earth? Just if Jesus would worship him? Does that sound like God hadn’t provided Satan with some kind of powers? Satan was evicted out of heaven by Michael and his angels’ testimony and the blood of the Lamb, but Satan still realizes some satisfaction in having certain powers while prince of the earth.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2019 14:53:26 GMT -5
Now the "free gift" is a misnomer. So you DO agree with me -- there were strings attached to the "free" gift. That's what I was explaining. Since this discussion is based upon Ephesians 2 where are considering the 'gift of God' we see on this occasion that the term 'free' is not used. However we do know that God gives freely to those who do his will. If we study the passages below we can readily see that the gift of grace is inextricably linked to doing the good works of God. Not our own works, but God's works. Now we can look upon doing God's works as 'strings' attached to his grace if you like, but lawnmower analogy is clearly evident. Grace is only the beginning. Basically we cannot do the works of God but that he gives us grace to do them. Grace has a purpose. We get it to do something with it! As James writes, we are justified by our good works. Call it strings, conditions, whatever. It is necessary. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.Frankly, I'm not the least bit interested in this theological construct.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2019 14:57:01 GMT -5
[ How many reject the gift of grace because they don't want the responsibility? I'm concluding from what sounds like the responsibility, that the number must be in the range of billions.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 15:52:19 GMT -5
[ How many reject the gift of grace because they don't want the responsibility? I'm concluding from what sounds like the responsibility, that the number must be in the range of billions. That seems to be in the range suggested by the Bible.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 23, 2019 16:02:03 GMT -5
Since this discussion is based upon Ephesians 2 where are considering the 'gift of God' we see on this occasion that the term 'free' is not used. However we do know that God gives freely to those who do his will. If we study the passages below we can readily see that the gift of grace is inextricably linked to doing the good works of God. Not our own works, but God's works. Now we can look upon doing God's works as 'strings' attached to his grace if you like, but lawnmower analogy is clearly evident. Grace is only the beginning. Basically we cannot do the works of God but that he gives us grace to do them. Grace has a purpose. We get it to do something with it! As James writes, we are justified by our good works. Call it strings, conditions, whatever. It is necessary. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.Frankly, I'm not the least bit interested in this theological construct. When I post on this board, I consider these discussions to be public. Therefore my posts are likely to be read by quite a few others, some of whom will be disinterested in my views, others disagree with them, but there are those who find them helpful. We don't know who and how many are helped by what we post, for many are silent observers. However, either by open support on this forum, or by private messages, we can get an idea of the value of our posts to others. Often little value derives from those with whom we directly engage ourselves, but the true value is with those with whom we indirectly communicate our posts to.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2019 19:11:26 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm not the least bit interested in this theological construct. When I post on this board, I consider these discussions to be public. Therefore my posts are likely to be read by quite a few others, some of whom will be disinterested in my views, others disagree with them, but there are those who find them helpful. We don't know who and how many are helped by what we post, for many are silent observers. However, either by open support on this forum, or by private messages, we can get an idea of the value of our posts to others. Often little value derives from those with whom we directly engage ourselves, but the true value is with those with whom we indirectly communicate our posts to. Quite right, I agree. Most of the questions I ask are simply to investigate how opinions are derived, or justified. Being a writer I like to know the thought processes of people no matter what they believe so that I can write realistic things about such characters from time to time.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Oct 23, 2019 20:01:46 GMT -5
As they allow Him to be with them? God chooses not mankind. If you follow Christ you would know if God was in satan or not. So are you a self appointed authority to make this statement? If i follow christ then I would know if God was in Satan or not? really? LOL nope, you are not that authority. Come down from your soap box. there are many people who follow christ who know varying degrees of information, and I can assure you that they are not influenced by you or aware of your statement. Well you are just entitled to call people not nice things and call yourself a Christian as any one else I suppose. End of discussion for me Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Oct 23, 2019 20:03:39 GMT -5
So are you a self appointed authority to make this statement? If i follow christ then I would know if God was in Satan or not? really? LOL nope, you are not that authority. Come down from your soap box. there are many people who follow christ who know varying degrees of information, and I can assure you that they are not influenced by you or aware of your statement. Agreed! As to God being in Satan? God created Satan. God has had feelings toward Satan, as God told Satan he’d made Satan the morning star, the angel of light. If we think that God just up and cuts iniquitous beings out of his mind just because they’ve disobeyed, then we might as well just all hang it up and die for all eternity. Did not Satan tell Jesus during temptation of Jesus that Satan had been given the powers to give Jesus all that he could desire on earth? Just if Jesus would worship him? Does that sound like God hadn’t provided Satan with some kind of powers? Satan was evicted out of heaven by Michael and his angels’ testimony and the blood of the Lamb, but Satan still realizes some satisfaction in having certain powers while prince of the earth. Satan was trying to give what was not his to give.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2019 20:50:05 GMT -5
Agreed! As to God being in Satan? God created Satan. God has had feelings toward Satan, as God told Satan he’d made Satan the morning star, the angel of light. If we think that God just up and cuts iniquitous beings out of his mind just because they’ve disobeyed, then we might as well just all hang it up and die for all eternity. Did not Satan tell Jesus during temptation of Jesus that Satan had been given the powers to give Jesus all that he could desire on earth? Just if Jesus would worship him? Does that sound like God hadn’t provided Satan with some kind of powers? Satan was evicted out of heaven by Michael and his angels’ testimony and the blood of the Lamb, but Satan still realizes some satisfaction in having certain powers while prince of the earth. Satan was trying to give what was not his to give. No he is given powers on earth. His powers in heaven as to accusing the brethren were taken away when he was tossed out of heaven! Jesus didn’t refute Satan’s claim that those powers had been given to him.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Oct 23, 2019 21:06:26 GMT -5
Satan was trying to give what was not his to give. No he is given powers on earth. His powers in heaven as to accusing the brethren were taken away when he was tossed out of heaven! Jesus didn’t refute Satan’s claim that those powers had been given to him. Jesus didn't have to refute satans claim because He knew satan had no power over Him what so ever.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Oct 23, 2019 21:33:05 GMT -5
Mmmm….. how do you think this was so, speak?
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2019 22:04:50 GMT -5
No he is given powers on earth. His powers in heaven as to accusing the brethren were taken away when he was tossed out of heaven! Jesus didn’t refute Satan’s claim that those powers had been given to him. Jesus didn't have to refute satans claim because He knew satan had no power over Him what so ever. You’re not interpreting the temptation correctly. If you want to tempt God’s Son you’re not going to fill him with lies about your powers. Jesus knew Satan could do exactly what Satan said he could, the catch was Jesus had to worship Satan but no this is where Jesus could refute Satan in that only God is to be worshipped. There’d been no temptation to Jesus if he’d known Satan didn’t have those powers, but Jesus knew Satan had those powers and Jesus knew the only way to overcome Satan's temptations of him was to play Satan’s own game of where Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus but Jesus beat Satan at his own game by giving a scripture that refuted Satan’s scripture usage. Though Jesus was fully man and fully God he would have felt the pull of those temptations but he would not succumb to them. This is how he enters into our temptations, he knows the pull of those temptations.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Oct 23, 2019 22:13:51 GMT -5
But if God gives you something.... Are you really gonna sit on it? There is more joy in giving than receiving.... The joy is in the giving, not in the supervision of how the gift was given. It's not really a gift if (1) it comes with mandatory manner of using it, and (2) if the giver punishes the receiver for not appreciating it. That makes it an ultimatum. But what god has given gets to be a problem. If god gives us everything, then for some people god has given insufferable "non-gifts", so to speak. Or, is his only gift the possibility of waiting for an eternal life if you have the wherewithal to acceptably appreciate and understand it in all its theoretical qualifying beliefs. Given this state of affairs, why is there an exception for the severely mentally retarded? What exception? How do we know a retarded person will enjoy heaven any more than they enjoy life today? Some enjoy their lives today, some dont, not unlike the rest of us. The gift of eternal life was intended to be enjoyed ever since Christ. One becomes nihilistic if you deny the value of this life as well as life to come.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Oct 23, 2019 22:25:14 GMT -5
The joy is in the giving, not in the supervision of how the gift was given. It's not really a gift if (1) it comes with mandatory manner of using it, and (2) if the giver punishes the receiver for not appreciating it. That makes it an ultimatum. But what god has given gets to be a problem. If god gives us everything, then for some people god has given insufferable "non-gifts", so to speak. Or, is his only gift the possibility of waiting for an eternal life if you have the wherewithal to acceptably appreciate and understand it in all its theoretical qualifying beliefs. Given this state of affairs, why is there an exception for the severely mentally retarded? What exception? How do we know a retarded person will enjoy heaven any more than they enjoy life today? Some enjoy their lives today, some dont, not unlike the rest of us. The gift of eternal life was intended to be enjoyed ever since Christ. One becomes nihilistic if you deny the value of this life as well as life to come. W don't know whether there's an exception. Those who seem to know all the rules about this matter appear to believe that there is an excuse for those who can't conform. I frankly think they don't really know what they're talking about.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Oct 23, 2019 22:54:37 GMT -5
If by that you mean people go up or down after death?
The strict binary is nihilistic.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Oct 23, 2019 22:56:40 GMT -5
Jesus didn't have to refute satans claim because He knew satan had no power over Him what so ever. You’re not interpreting the temptation correctly. If you want to tempt God’s Son you’re not going to fill him with lies about your powers. Jesus knew Satan could do exactly what Satan said he could, the catch was Jesus had to worship Satan but no this is where Jesus could refute Satan in that only God is to be worshipped. There’d been no temptation to Jesus if he’d known Satan didn’t have those powers, but Jesus knew Satan had those powers and Jesus knew the only way to overcome Satan's temptations of him was to play Satan’s own game of where Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus but Jesus beat Satan at his own game by giving a scripture that refuted Satan’s scripture usage. Though Jesus was fully man and fully God he would have felt the pull of those temptations but he would not succumb to them. This is how he enters into our temptations, he knows the pull of those temptations. satan is the father of lies he cannot do anything else, he cannot tell the truth because it doesn't reside in him. satan had nothing. You will see he tried to use the power Jesus had in those temptations if you read it properly.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2019 23:54:03 GMT -5
You’re not interpreting the temptation correctly. If you want to tempt God’s Son you’re not going to fill him with lies about your powers. Jesus knew Satan could do exactly what Satan said he could, the catch was Jesus had to worship Satan but no this is where Jesus could refute Satan in that only God is to be worshipped. There’d been no temptation to Jesus if he’d known Satan didn’t have those powers, but Jesus knew Satan had those powers and Jesus knew the only way to overcome Satan's temptations of him was to play Satan’s own game of where Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus but Jesus beat Satan at his own game by giving a scripture that refuted Satan’s scripture usage. Though Jesus was fully man and fully God he would have felt the pull of those temptations but he would not succumb to them. This is how he enters into our temptations, he knows the pull of those temptations. satan is the father of lies he cannot do anything else, he cannot tell the truth because it doesn't reside in him. satan had nothing. You will see he tried to use the power Jesus had in those temptations if you read it properly. You’re wrong, Satan has power of the earth. Jesus called him thee prince if the earth. So princes are supposedly have power where they are cons prince. Satan still uses those powers on mankind these days. If you can’t understand that then you have no ideas about. The powers Satan has and I find that a dangerous thought. It took Michael and all his angels to overcome Satan and his angels and they were in Muchael’s turf, so to speak. Satan’s tempts mankind now with power, possessions, recognitions, celebrity, he doesn’t always lie. The fact that he is the father of all lies doesn’t mean he can’t be sly like as fox!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Oct 24, 2019 0:16:00 GMT -5
You mean that you agree that the bible is NOT the word of god but the word of man?
It depends which version. For instance, I would put no trust in the East Eritrean 4th Edition (Dutch translation). Gotta' hand it to you! That was one of the cleverest evasions of avoiding the truth that I have heard for a long time!
|
|
|
Post by speak on Oct 24, 2019 0:50:19 GMT -5
satan is the father of lies he cannot do anything else, he cannot tell the truth because it doesn't reside in him. satan had nothing. You will see he tried to use the power Jesus had in those temptations if you read it properly. You’re wrong, Satan has power of the earth. Jesus called him thee prince if the earth. So princes are supposedly have power where they are cons prince. Satan still uses those powers on mankind these days. If you can’t understand that then you have no ideas about. The powers Satan has and I find that a dangerous thought. It took Michael and all his angels to overcome Satan and his angels and they were in Muchael’s turf, so to speak. Satan’s tempts mankind now with power, possessions, recognitions, celebrity, he doesn’t always lie. The fact that he is the father of all lies doesn’t mean he can’t be sly like as fox! i see no point in carrying this on it's just going around in circles.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 24, 2019 3:04:18 GMT -5
It depends which version. For instance, I would put no trust in the East Eritrean 4th Edition (Dutch translation). Gotta' hand it to you! That was one of the cleverest evasions of avoiding the truth that I have heard for a long time!
Dmetc, you referred to 'the Bible' as not being the word of God, but as the word of man. My answer was not an evasion but an invitation. I stated, it depends on which version. There are over 150 versions of the Bible in English today. Most of these have been corrupted by man. An admixture of God's word and man's word/misinterpretations is an adulteration and no longer represents God. It is therefore a construct of man. As stated previously, I have no trust in the East Eritrean 4th Edition (Dutch translation), not because it is not in English, but because it relies heavily, if not entirely, on the 8th deciphering of the rather suspect Algerian texts (3rd compilation). Therefore I return to 'it depends which version?' A return, or rather a re-statement of an original position can in no way be described as an evasion. The Patmos Parchments, now in the hands of the Andalusian Municipal Authority, reveal a lot, which when correctly translated into English English (not USA English), points us unquestionably to the correct version in English to trust. Even a brief visit to the Institute of Theological Studies in Malaga will enlighten us with undeniable facts.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Oct 24, 2019 4:40:22 GMT -5
If by that you mean people go up or down after death? The strict binary is nihilistic. Existential nihilism?
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 7:09:19 GMT -5
If people read the Bible they will see that salvation carries a heavy price. Here are just a couple of examples. Jesus did all that he could for us, BUT he did not do everything. We must pay the same price as he did, even if it costs us our lives. 2 Timothy 3:12 “Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.” Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Matthew 19:29 King James Version (KJV) 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.There's plenty more where these came from, perhaps hundreds more. The cost or price of salvation appears to be hidden in plain sight? Salvation is FREE by faith. How do you put a price on a gift, and a heavy price at that?. What part of free/gift is not free?. Grace is given with knowing we cannot repay. Leviticus 16:29,30. They were not to do ANY WORK so they could lay no claim to the cleansing of their sins. Ephesians 2:8,9 Saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH, not by boasting works, same as Leviticus 16 Romans 3:22 Righteousness through FAITH No difference between Jews and Gentiles, Jews thought works saved them. Romans 3:27,28 Justified by faith, not by deed of the law. Romans 4:2,3 Abraham had plenty of works to boast about. But righteousness came by FAITH. Romans 4:4,5 Works puts God in debt to us, faith is counted as righteousness. Romans 4:6 God credits righteousness apart from WORKS. Romans 4:16, Promise comes by faith. Romans 5:17 God's gift comes through one man, JESUS CHRIST! Romans 5:18 ONE righteous act(death of Christ) justifies all beleivers. Romans 10:6 Dont establish your own righteousness. Galations 3:10,11 No one can follow the law fully. Titus 3:5 Not saved by righteous things we have done. Book of Romans obliterates works salvation no matter how subtle you apply it. Works vindicate our FAITH!
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 24, 2019 7:24:47 GMT -5
If people read the Bible they will see that salvation carries a heavy price. Here are just a couple of examples. Jesus did all that he could for us, BUT he did not do everything. We must pay the same price as he did, even if it costs us our lives. 2 Timothy 3:12 “Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.” Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Matthew 19:29 King James Version (KJV) 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.There's plenty more where these came from, perhaps hundreds more. The cost or price of salvation appears to be hidden in plain sight? Salvation is FREE by faith. How do you put a price on a gift, and a heavy price at that?. What part of free/gift is not free?. Grace is given with knowing we cannot repay. Leviticus 16:29,30. They were not to do ANY WORK so they could lay no claim to the cleansing of their sins. Ephesians 2:8,9 Saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH, not by boasting works, same as Leviticus 16 Romans 3:22 Righteousness through FAITH No difference between Jews and Gentiles, Jews thought works saved them. Romans 3:27,28 Justified by faith, not by deed of the law. Romans 4:2,3 Abraham had plenty of works to boast about. But righteousness came by FAITH. Romans 4:4,5 Works puts God in debt to us, faith is counted as righteousness. Romans 4:6 God credits righteousness apart from WORKS. Romans 4:16, Promise comes by faith. Romans 5:17 God's gift comes through one man, JESUS CHRIST! Romans 5:18 ONE righteous act(death of Christ) justifies all beleivers. Romans 10:6 Dont establish your own righteousness. Galations 3:10,11 No one can follow the law fully. Titus 3:5 Not saved by righteous things we have done. Book of Romans obliterates works salvation no matter how subtle you apply it. Works vindicate our FAITH!Put it how you like but faith without works is dead, Right? Works are a necessary part of faith. It makes our faith a living faith. Works and faith go hand in hand.
You did pay attention to the verses I quoted in an earlier post?
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Works of our own flesh avails nothing. It is the good works of God that justifies us. It's what we have faith for. Without these good works our faith is dead.
(Virgs)
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2019 8:00:18 GMT -5
Salvation is FREE by faith. How do you put a price on a gift, and a heavy price at that?. What part of free/gift is not free?. Grace is given with knowing we cannot repay. Leviticus 16:29,30. They were not to do ANY WORK so they could lay no claim to the cleansing of their sins. Ephesians 2:8,9 Saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH, not by boasting works, same as Leviticus 16 Romans 3:22 Righteousness through FAITH No difference between Jews and Gentiles, Jews thought works saved them. Romans 3:27,28 Justified by faith, not by deed of the law. Romans 4:2,3 Abraham had plenty of works to boast about. But righteousness came by FAITH. Romans 4:4,5 Works puts God in debt to us, faith is counted as righteousness. Romans 4:6 God credits righteousness apart from WORKS. Romans 4:16, Promise comes by faith. Romans 5:17 God's gift comes through one man, JESUS CHRIST! Romans 5:18 ONE righteous act(death of Christ) justifies all beleivers. Romans 10:6 Dont establish your own righteousness. Galations 3:10,11 No one can follow the law fully. Titus 3:5 Not saved by righteous things we have done. Book of Romans obliterates works salvation no matter how subtle you apply it. Works vindicate our FAITH!Put it how you like but faith without works is dead, Right? Works are a necessary part of faith. It makes our faith a living faith. Works and faith go hand in hand.
You did pay attention to the verses I quoted in an earlier post?
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Works of our own flesh avails nothing. It is the good works of God that justifies us. It's what we have faith for. Without these good works our faith is dead.
(Virgs) No the works do not justify us, Faith justifies us. Works vindicate true Saving Faith. Just like Abraham in Romans 4:9- This guy explains it really well. youtu.be/lZu0DXcDypEAre you suggesting the works the Friends do are not of the flesh?. Dress codes, technology codes, proffesing, baptisms, subtle suggestions that not attending regular meetings/missions is bad, excommunication ect ect. All of the flesh.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 24, 2019 8:55:25 GMT -5
If people read the Bible they will see that salvation carries a heavy price. Here are just a couple of examples. Jesus did all that he could for us, BUT he did not do everything. We must pay the same price as he did, even if it costs us our lives. 2 Timothy 3:12 “Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.” Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Matthew 19:29 King James Version (KJV) 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.There's plenty more where these came from, perhaps hundreds more. The cost or price of salvation appears to be hidden in plain sight? Salvation is FREE by faith. How do you put a price on a gift, and a heavy price at that?. What part of free/gift is not free?. Grace is given with knowing we cannot repay. Leviticus 16:29,30. They were not to do ANY WORK so they could lay no claim to the cleansing of their sins. Ephesians 2:8,9 Saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH, not by boasting works, same as Leviticus 16 Romans 3:22 Righteousness through FAITH No difference between Jews and Gentiles, Jews thought works saved them. Romans 3:27,28 Justified by faith, not by deed of the law. Romans 4:2,3 Abraham had plenty of works to boast about. But righteousness came by FAITH. Romans 4:4,5 Works puts God in debt to us, faith is counted as righteousness. Romans 4:6 God credits righteousness apart from WORKS. Romans 4:16, Promise comes by faith. Romans 5:17 God's gift comes through one man, JESUS CHRIST! Romans 5:18 ONE righteous act(death of Christ) justifies all beleivers. Romans 10:6 Dont establish your own righteousness. Galations 3:10,11 No one can follow the law fully. Titus 3:5 Not saved by righteous things we have done. Book of Romans obliterates works salvation no matter how subtle you apply it. Works vindicate our FAITH! Bears repeating!
|
|