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Post by snow on Oct 4, 2019 19:07:10 GMT -5
What is the difference between being born in sin and being born a sinner when the outcome is the same thing? Why do religions have such a hatred for sex? Why was it better for Adam and Eve to not have sex? I think the Christian God needs to find himself a wife and quit creating and start begatting. He might not be so hard on his creation. I didn’t say it was better for them to not have sex, what I was trying to point out in their sinless estate they weren’t into slaking their lusts. Also when it says a babe is born in sin, that’s a reflection on their parents not the babe. They were slaking their lusts whether for sexual release or purposefully making a baby, it was about giving their lusts or desires satiation. Again, the doctrine that you are a sinner because someone else did something. God made humans to reproduce by having sex. He gave them the ability to enjoy sex. So why does wanting to have sex (lust) and making babies sinful? How else would God make more humans if they didn't have sex. That's pretty mean to make the only way to reproduce an act that also makes you a sinner.
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Post by snow on Oct 4, 2019 19:11:32 GMT -5
Which makes even less sense to me. Why would God make humans with the express knowledge that he would have to die to save them from himself as some point? That means he knowingly made humans that were incapable of not sinning, condemned them for this imperfection, and knew from the start that he had to die to save them? Doesn't anyone see just how unnecessary it all was and therefore improbable? Did he make imperfect humans on purpose? It certainly sounds that way and what would be the sense of doing something like that? It’s all about humans being of faith and dependence on the God of heaven . To give mankind a reason to seek their creator and have a good relationship with the God of heaven all to the glory of God. It’s not unlike parents wanting their children to be reliant on them just as their parents. STR, a good parent wants to do the exact opposite. To make their children self reliant. I don't want my children to be dependent on me. I want them to feel confident with themselves. I think a parent and child can have a far better relationship as adults if the child does not feel like they owe the parent and can relate as equals, confident in their own abilities.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 4, 2019 20:46:13 GMT -5
I didn’t say it was better for them to not have sex, what I was trying to point out in their sinless estate they weren’t into slaking their lusts. Also when it says a babe is born in sin, that’s a reflection on their parents not the babe. They were slaking their lusts whether for sexual release or purposefully making a baby, it was about giving their lusts or desires satiation. Again, the doctrine that you are a sinner because someone else did something. God made humans to reproduce by having sex. He gave them the ability to enjoy sex. So why does wanting to have sex (lust) and making babies sinful? How else would God make more humans if they didn't have sex. That's pretty mean to make the only way to reproduce an act that also makes you a sinner. Come on, Snow. You know sex isn’t about creating babies, it’s about slaking lusts of the flesh. Or sometimes used in evil ways as a way to prove victims are helpless making the attacker’s feel omnipotent. If sex had been always for procreation and never turned into slaking some fleshly desire , it’d never been the problem. I also feel that sex between man and wife was meant as a constant sanctification of them being “one flesh”. But it was lost in the discovery of the pleasure of sex.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 4, 2019 20:51:49 GMT -5
It’s all about humans being of faith and dependence on the God of heaven . To give mankind a reason to seek their creator and have a good relationship with the God of heaven all to the glory of God. It’s not unlike parents wanting their children to be reliant on them just as their parents. STR, a good parent wants to do the exact opposite. To make their children self reliant. I don't want my children to be dependent on me. I want them to feel confident with themselves. I think a parent and child can have a far better relationship as adults if the child does not feel like they owe the parent and can relate as equals, confident in their own abilities. Don’t you want your children to always think of you as their parent even when they are completely self-sufficient? God wanting mankind to be dependent on God has to do with spiritual life not physical life. It is the Spirit is what is made in God's Image, and since Satan caused Adam and Eve’s sin; God feels he wants us to be reliant on God to be able to have the strength only God can supply in order we can thwart Satan’s attempts to kill our spirits or drive them into eternal death. This is the way, Satan wars against God is through causing mankind’s spiritual demise. As to physical or human independence, God has provided us with all that will help us do that, but spirits are a different matter due to the dirty deeds of Satan.
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Post by mountain on Oct 5, 2019 11:19:28 GMT -5
But Mountain, you just stumbled on the argument that those who believe in the Trinity doctrine say is the reason why Jesus was God. The ones that brought in the Trinity didn't believe Jesus could have been chosen to save everyone else if he himself wasn't a God. They couldn't accept that God could choose a perfect human to do the same, and in fact, that would have far more of an impact than a God dying for mankind. I was always motivated and inspired by the notion that Jesus was a human, just like me, that had actually achieved perfection in his lifetime and was chosen by God to be the role model, the example for all others. Saying a God died to save us really doesn't do much to inspire. But it does lead to a doctrine where no human can achieve perfection so don't bother to think you might be able to. Just believe Jesus is God and you will be saved. Not as much work of course, and many like it easy. But of course, the argument for that is once you believe in Jesus and are saved that then the holy spirit enters you and you become as good as any human can be short of perfection. And, you are saved forever. Though not all believe the 'once saved always saved'. But that's a whole different topic. Snow, the Bible is clear, we are to walk in the light as he (Jesus) walked in the light of God. We are to be examples of Christ. Also, nowhere in the Bible are we ever instructed to believe that Jesus is God. We are to believe that the human being Jesus is the son of God and that is an important part of our salvation. In these matters we should always go by what God says, not what man says. We are clearly warned that man's interpretations can only lead us away from the one true God. You are a lot closer to God's truth than the trins.
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Post by mountain on Oct 5, 2019 11:30:12 GMT -5
So you too believe that a belt buckle is God? You’re being totally ridiculous! No I am not. You have clearly demonstrated over and over again that you are unwilling to consider or think about anything other than what is fixed in your mind. During World War II the German Army's (The Heer) soldiers wore belts with the words 'Gott Mit Uns', or 'God With Us' (Emmanuelle) embossed on the buckles. As you have demonstrated by your reasoning, these belt buckles are God himself! This is how you reason things out. You apply these self same standards in other matters.
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Post by mountain on Oct 5, 2019 11:42:30 GMT -5
Titus 2:13 - and don’t say God refers to the Father because the context shows it clearly refers to the Son. I am glad you are beginning to recognise context. However you are way wrong here. Titus 2.13 is clearly a reference to God AND Jesus Christ. It's very helpful when you make these claims if you quote the relevant verses in full.
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Here is one example. Elliott's commentary.
Of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.—The translation here should run, of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ. From the English version, it would seem that Paul’s idea was that the Christian should live waiting for the glorious appearing of the great God, accompanied with our Lord Jesus Christ. The rendering we have adopted, on what seems conclusive grounds, speaks of a Christian life, as a life ever looking for the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I’ve learned that you don’t specifically answer questions but deflect. And yet, as in the past, if I ask you to cite one example and that we discuss it, you merely move on to something else.
I’m feeling thankful that Jesus was fully human but in very nature God, a life-giving Spirit and the Word who was with God and was God - the One who was made flesh and dwelt amongst us. He was indeed the perfect man from Heaven who dwelt eternally with the Father but became lower on earth for a short period of time. How are you going with your worship of Jesus? As I’ve said previously - one day we all will fall down before Him and worship Him - why would you refuse to do it now? I worship the Father in the way that Jesus taught. That's good enough for me.
I can understand why your theology severely limits who Jesus is. When you argue, despite Christ’s words to the contrary, that He didn’t exist before He was born on earth, I get that you will arrive at the conclusions you do. They are incorrect conclusions based on all that God has written for us in His Word but you won’t be the first or last person to develop a theology that is inconsistent with Scripture. This is merely your unenlightened opinion. You are lost in a world of pagan divinity, the very thing God hates. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
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Post by snow on Oct 5, 2019 14:02:06 GMT -5
Again, the doctrine that you are a sinner because someone else did something. God made humans to reproduce by having sex. He gave them the ability to enjoy sex. So why does wanting to have sex (lust) and making babies sinful? How else would God make more humans if they didn't have sex. That's pretty mean to make the only way to reproduce an act that also makes you a sinner. Come on, Snow. You know sex isn’t about creating babies, it’s about slaking lusts of the flesh. Or sometimes used in evil ways as a way to prove victims are helpless making the attacker’s feel omnipotent. If sex had been always for procreation and never turned into slaking some fleshly desire , it’d never been the problem. I also feel that sex between man and wife was meant as a constant sanctification of them being “one flesh”. But it was lost in the discovery of the pleasure of sex. I acknowledge that sex is sometimes about power and used to hurt and humiliate. But my point wasn't about that side of it. It was about God giving his creation the ability to enjoy sex and therefore want to do it for more than the reproduction of babies. Yet religion seems to frown on enjoying sex for any purpose other than procreating. I don't see why that is. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex just for sex. If he didn't want us to do that why would he have made it enjoyable?
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Post by snow on Oct 5, 2019 14:06:30 GMT -5
STR, a good parent wants to do the exact opposite. To make their children self reliant. I don't want my children to be dependent on me. I want them to feel confident with themselves. I think a parent and child can have a far better relationship as adults if the child does not feel like they owe the parent and can relate as equals, confident in their own abilities. Don’t you want your children to always think of you as their parent even when they are completely self-sufficient? God wanting mankind to be dependent on God has to do with spiritual life not physical life. It is the Spirit is what is made in God's Image, and since Satan caused Adam and Eve’s sin; God feels he wants us to be reliant on God to be able to have the strength only God can supply in order we can thwart Satan’s attempts to kill our spirits or drive them into eternal death. This is the way, Satan wars against God is through causing mankind’s spiritual demise. As to physical or human independence, God has provided us with all that will help us do that, but spirits are a different matter due to the dirty deeds of Satan. Thinking about me and being dependent on me are very different things imo. I don't care if they see me as a parent actually. I would far rather that they see me as a friend that they aren't dependent on but just want to be with me because they like me or love me. I see no benefit in having children that only care about me because I am their parent. And I sure don't want them to love me because I hold something over them as a reward or a punishment. It seems to me if that is the case, I would never know if they actually loved me for me or because of what I could do for them, or to avoid what I might do to them. That's how I see it. I don't see my adult children as children. I see them as friends.
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Post by Ross.Bowden on Oct 5, 2019 17:00:05 GMT -5
Titus 2:13 - and don’t say God refers to the Father because the context shows it clearly refers to the Son. I am glad you are beginning to recognise context. However you are way wrong here. Titus 2.13 is clearly a reference to God AND Jesus Christ. It's very helpful when you make these claims if you quote the relevant verses in full.
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Here is one example. Elliott's commentary.
Of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.—The translation here should run, of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ. From the English version, it would seem that Paul’s idea was that the Christian should live waiting for the glorious appearing of the great God, accompanied with our Lord Jesus Christ. The rendering we have adopted, on what seems conclusive grounds, speaks of a Christian life, as a life ever looking for the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I’ve learned that you don’t specifically answer questions but deflect. And yet, as in the past, if I ask you to cite one example and that we discuss it, you merely move on to something else.
I’m feeling thankful that Jesus was fully human but in very nature God, a life-giving Spirit and the Word who was with God and was God - the One who was made flesh and dwelt amongst us. He was indeed the perfect man from Heaven who dwelt eternally with the Father but became lower on earth for a short period of time. How are you going with your worship of Jesus? As I’ve said previously - one day we all will fall down before Him and worship Him - why would you refuse to do it now? I worship the Father in the way that Jesus taught. That's good enough for me.
I can understand why your theology severely limits who Jesus is. When you argue, despite Christ’s words to the contrary, that He didn’t exist before He was born on earth, I get that you will arrive at the conclusions you do. They are incorrect conclusions based on all that God has written for us in His Word but you won’t be the first or last person to develop a theology that is inconsistent with Scripture. This is merely your unenlightened opinion. You are lost in a world of pagan divinity, the very thing God hates. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Titus 2:13 in Greek does not refer to two persons, but Christ alone which is also completely supported by the grammatical structure. The Greek word rendered “appearing” never refers to the Father. You still haven’t explained how a human being who is apparently not divine or having a divine nature (in your view and contrary to God’s Word) can die in the place of all human beings, past, present or future, can similarly atone for their sin or can propitiate the wrath of God. If the divinity of Christ is pagan divinity (in your view), then obviously you regard Christ, the 12 and Paul as inventing that divinity. If it’s okay with you I’ll choose Christ’s words about who He is, his nature and character plus their words about Christ any day over your views and theology or the views of those on YouTube. I’m on safe ground because of Christ’s words. Christ clearly talks about the glory that he shared with his father before the world existed. You say that he didn’t do that because in your theology Christ didn’t exist before his birth and certainly couldn’t have “shared” glory with the Father.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 5, 2019 17:10:16 GMT -5
You’re being totally ridiculous! No I am not. You have clearly demonstrated over and over again that you are unwilling to consider or think about anything other than what is fixed in your mind. During World War II the German Army's (The Heer) soldiers wore belts with the words 'Gott Mit Uns', or 'God With Us' (Emmanuelle) embossed on the buckles. As you have demonstrated by your reasoning, these belt buckles are God himself! This is how you reason things out. You apply these self same standards in other matters. You’re out of your mind! My reasoning is from the Bible. It hurts and alarms me very much that you don’t believe what the Father has gave in record about his Son. You holler about context. Mountain, anything the Father has said “stands alone” never to be rebutted! That’s the way it is and God measures our presence of faith by the fact whether we believe what the Father has gave in record about his Son. His Son is the Word as so said in John 1:1,2. And it plainly states the Word was in the beginning, the Word was with God, AND the Word WAS GOD! Later in the chapter it says that GOD was made MANIFEST in the FLESH. The Father did NOT beget or have sex with Mary to “BEGAT” his SON. His SON was already begotten, as ISAIAH prophesied “Unto is a Son is GIVEN “. Indicating this Son already was present. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he “gave” his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him shall not perish. Hebrews 10:5 says “Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he(Jesus) saith, ‘Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY THOU HAST PREPARED ME:” The Father “prepared a human body” in Mary’s womb to embody his only begotten Son in, so that that body is the bread which we memorialize in the bread; that body’s life’s blood is what we memorialize in the wine we drink. And above all else to grow spiritually we eat of that body and drink of that blood. Philippians 2:5-7 Let this mind be in you, which also was in Christ Jesus: WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took on him ‘the form of a servant’ , and was made in the likeness of men: Meaning the Son of God had every attribute, nature that the Father had. Why not? Because the Father begat him all alone before the world became. He was God’s Son or God the Son as there is only ONE God and the Father separated nothing from or of himself in the begetting if his only begotten Son. He shared of himself. John 8:58. Before Abraham was, I AM! (Reference: Exodus 3:14...I , that I AM...”)
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 5, 2019 17:15:15 GMT -5
Don’t you want your children to always think of you as their parent even when they are completely self-sufficient? God wanting mankind to be dependent on God has to do with spiritual life not physical life. It is the Spirit is what is made in God's Image, and since Satan caused Adam and Eve’s sin; God feels he wants us to be reliant on God to be able to have the strength only God can supply in order we can thwart Satan’s attempts to kill our spirits or drive them into eternal death. This is the way, Satan wars against God is through causing mankind’s spiritual demise. As to physical or human independence, God has provided us with all that will help us do that, but spirits are a different matter due to the dirty deeds of Satan. Thinking about me and being dependent on me are very different things imo. I don't care if they see me as a parent actually. I would far rather that they see me as a friend that they aren't dependent on but just want to be with me because they like me or love me. I see no benefit in having children that only care about me because I am their parent. And I sure don't want them to love me because I hold something over them as a reward or a punishment. It seems to me if that is the case, I would never know if they actually loved me for me or because of what I could do for them, or to avoid what I might do to them. That's how I see it. I don't see my adult children as children. I see them as friends. Oh Snow, you know what I mean! I’m talking about the difference between friend love and love and respect grown children have for their parents. They will always depend on that patent to remain their parent. That relationship never changes except for the parent’s gradual release of responsibility for their children to be adults in their own but always there should those children need their parent for whatever reason!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 5, 2019 17:19:28 GMT -5
Come on, Snow. You know sex isn’t about creating babies, it’s about slaking lusts of the flesh. Or sometimes used in evil ways as a way to prove victims are helpless making the attacker’s feel omnipotent. If sex had been always for procreation and never turned into slaking some fleshly desire , it’d never been the problem. I also feel that sex between man and wife was meant as a constant sanctification of them being “one flesh”. But it was lost in the discovery of the pleasure of sex. I acknowledge that sex is sometimes about power and used to hurt and humiliate. But my point wasn't about that side of it. It was about God giving his creation the ability to enjoy sex and therefore want to do it for more than the reproduction of babies. Yet religion seems to frown on enjoying sex for any purpose other than procreating. I don't see why that is. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex just for sex. If he didn't want us to do that why would he have made it enjoyable? I know of no religion that prohibits sex as God meant it to be. The joining of man and wife as “one flesh”. They try to get people to reserve that kind of relationship for their life’s spouse/partner. Because it does have an effect on any relationship when there’s been intimacy outside the bond of man and wife or spousal bond. Besides all the complications that has arisen from sexual activities outside the sanctity of marriage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 17:42:46 GMT -5
I acknowledge that sex is sometimes about power and used to hurt and humiliate. But my point wasn't about that side of it. It was about God giving his creation the ability to enjoy sex and therefore want to do it for more than the reproduction of babies. Yet religion seems to frown on enjoying sex for any purpose other than procreating. I don't see why that is. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex just for sex. If he didn't want us to do that why would he have made it enjoyable? I know of no religion that prohibits sex as God meant it to be. The joining of man and wife as “one flesh”. They try to get people to reserve that kind of relationship for their life’s spouse/partner. Because it does have an effect on any relationship when there’s been intimacy outside the bond of man and wife or spousal bond. Besides all the complications that has arisen from sexual activities outside the sanctity of marriage. the quakers or the shakers i believe have a no sex policy.....thats why there are only 3 of them left last i knew...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 5, 2019 18:57:20 GMT -5
I know of no religion that prohibits sex as God meant it to be. The joining of man and wife as “one flesh”. They try to get people to reserve that kind of relationship for their life’s spouse/partner. Because it does have an effect on any relationship when there’s been intimacy outside the bond of man and wife or spousal bond. Besides all the complications that has arisen from sexual activities outside the sanctity of marriage. the quakers or the shakers i believe have a no sex policy.....thats why there are only 3 of them left last i knew... 😂 😆 😝🤣
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Post by joanna on Oct 5, 2019 19:45:38 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 5, 2019 20:09:59 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Oct 5, 2019 20:19:42 GMT -5
** It seemed John the apostle had the most clearer revelation Jesus was God/Christ than Mathew, Mark and Luke. Mathew was a tax collector For the Romans who was 1 of the first 12 apostles whom Jesus sent in Matthew 10. Mark, the Nephew of Barnabas who started in the ministry in Acts 13. Luke was a Physician started in the ministry with Paul, Timothy in Acts 16. Luke was paul's younger co-worker. However, John the apostle and Jesus were 1st cousin, their mothers were sisters. Jesus and John had grown up together and known each others. In 95 A.D. while a prisoner on the island at patmost, Jesus took John to a heavenly Dimension to reveal to him he was the Almighty and God. Rev. 1:7-8; Rev. 21:5-8 Then John wrote the gospel of John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word/Logos=Christ and the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things were made by Him. John the apostle saw Jesus was God Almighty who incarnate in the person Jesus as the Lamb of God to die for our sin. Therefore, when John wrote the gospel he focused mainly that Jesus God the Christ throughout the gospel of John because he SAW it with His own eyes in 95 A.D.
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Post by snow on Oct 6, 2019 12:28:47 GMT -5
Thinking about me and being dependent on me are very different things imo. I don't care if they see me as a parent actually. I would far rather that they see me as a friend that they aren't dependent on but just want to be with me because they like me or love me. I see no benefit in having children that only care about me because I am their parent. And I sure don't want them to love me because I hold something over them as a reward or a punishment. It seems to me if that is the case, I would never know if they actually loved me for me or because of what I could do for them, or to avoid what I might do to them. That's how I see it. I don't see my adult children as children. I see them as friends. Oh Snow, you know what I mean! I’m talking about the difference between friend love and love and respect grown children have for their parents. They will always depend on that patent to remain their parent. That relationship never changes except for the parent’s gradual release of responsibility for their children to be adults in their own but always there should those children need their parent for whatever reason! Yes, we will always be their parents. But you said that God wants us to be dependent on him and I disagree with that. I don't want my children to be dependent on me. I don't mind doing things for them, in fact I love to, but what makes me very happy is that I don't need to do anything for them and they will do just fine without me. Also, I would hope that the relationship with your children does changes as they grow and become more capable. And I don't just mean our responsibility to them. My children don't 'need' me. They do very well all by themselves. But we are friends and we do things for each other as friends do and we hang out together because they want to hang out with me, not because I am their parent. I think that is far more healthy for them instead of feeling dependent on me. I think we are probably talking around each other. But I've never agreed with the theists relationship they say God wants to have with them. God has far too much power over his 'children'. He will love them and give them an eternal reward if they do what he considers right. If they don't, he will punish them for eternity. I would never do that to any child of mine that had a different viewpoint than me. But God does.
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Post by snow on Oct 6, 2019 12:33:29 GMT -5
I acknowledge that sex is sometimes about power and used to hurt and humiliate. But my point wasn't about that side of it. It was about God giving his creation the ability to enjoy sex and therefore want to do it for more than the reproduction of babies. Yet religion seems to frown on enjoying sex for any purpose other than procreating. I don't see why that is. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex just for sex. If he didn't want us to do that why would he have made it enjoyable? I know of no religion that prohibits sex as God meant it to be. The joining of man and wife as “one flesh”. They try to get people to reserve that kind of relationship for their life’s spouse/partner. Because it does have an effect on any relationship when there’s been intimacy outside the bond of man and wife or spousal bond. Besides all the complications that has arisen from sexual activities outside the sanctity of marriage. But what you aren't taking into consideration here is that it's man's interpretation or rather the church leaders in the beginning, that have decided what they think their God expects as far as sex. It's a good way to make people feel like they are sinners when it becomes a sin to want sex. But the way I see it, if your God exists, he made us to enjoy sex and then he (his priests) decide that sex is a sin. You said that Adam and Eve were sinless BEFORE they realized that they were naked and started having sex. That means that even sex in marriage is a sinful state. And, I disagree that sex should have ever been categorized as a sin. It's a natural part of life and it's been turned into something wrong. Many people have been really messed up by that teaching.
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Post by nathan on Oct 6, 2019 15:46:33 GMT -5
I know of no religion that prohibits sex as God meant it to be. The joining of man and wife as “one flesh”. They try to get people to reserve that kind of relationship for their life’s spouse/partner. Because it does have an effect on any relationship when there’s been intimacy outside the bond of man and wife or spousal bond. Besides all the complications that has arisen from sexual activities outside the sanctity of marriage. But what you aren't taking into consideration here is that it's man's interpretation or rather the church leaders in the beginning, that have decided what they think their God expects as far as sex. It's a good way to make people feel like they are sinners when it becomes a sin to want sex. But the way I see it, if your God exists, he made us to enjoy sex and then he (his priests) decide that sex is a sin. You said that Adam and Eve were sinless BEFORE they realized that they were naked and started having sex. That means that even sex in marriage is a sinful state. And, I disagree that sex should have ever been categorized as a sin. It's a natural part of life and it's been turned into something wrong. Many people have been really messed up by that teaching. I agree with you, snow.... God created Adam and Eve in their Image and Likeness and He/They wanted Adam and Eve to have children so they could rule and reign with Christ in the Universe. To have children they must have SEX intercourse between the TWO of them.
God became VERY angry told Adam and Eve NOT to touch/come near the Forbidden TREE/that is Satan/Serpent, but he deceived Eve with the lust of the FLESH and she committed Adultery sexual relationship with Satan, he was an magnificent, beautiful and the most glorious/highest Arch angel of God.
That was one of the main reasons, God could NOT allow Eve and Satan's seed hybrid children and Adam's children to enter heaven because sin of disobedience. The Godhead closed the door of heaven on them, after death all of humans souls get to stay in HADES, inner earth where Satan keeps them until the Judgement day.
In Genesis 3:15 Christ/God the Son offered Adam and Eve fallen children hope and eternal life. He revealed them His plan of Redemption for 4000 yrs a little bit at a time so, they would be able to recognize when Christ/God appeared in the person Jesus as their Savior.
After the death of Jesus on Calvary's He paid the Ransom price for the fallen humans in full, His Spirit went to Hades and release ALL the Old Testament believers (Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, all the prophets, kings and faithful believers who waited in hope for Jesus to die and pay for their sins) from Satan's prison and brought all of them back to the Father in heaven with him when he ascended.
Jesus said Ye must be BORN AGAIN! none of us can enter heaven with the sinful, rebellious and disobedience spirits because Adam and Eve choice in the Garden of Eden, the natural DEATH of the human body and spiritual death= separation from God for all eternity passed on all of us humans like a terminal cancer.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Oct 6, 2019 16:04:42 GMT -5
To treat Jesus like an overseer, pope, rabbi,priest or other human church position is BLASPHEMY!!!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 6, 2019 16:19:09 GMT -5
I know of no religion that prohibits sex as God meant it to be. The joining of man and wife as “one flesh”. They try to get people to reserve that kind of relationship for their life’s spouse/partner. Because it does have an effect on any relationship when there’s been intimacy outside the bond of man and wife or spousal bond. Besides all the complications that has arisen from sexual activities outside the sanctity of marriage. But what you aren't taking into consideration here is that it's man's interpretation or rather the church leaders in the beginning, that have decided what they think their God expects as far as sex. It's a good way to make people feel like they are sinners when it becomes a sin to want sex. But the way I see it, if your God exists, he made us to enjoy sex and then he (his priests) decide that sex is a sin. You said that Adam and Eve were sinless BEFORE they realized that they were naked and started having sex. That means that even sex in marriage is a sinful state. And, I disagree that sex should have ever been categorized as a sin. It's a natural part of life and it's been turned into something wrong. Many people have been really messed up by that teaching. But God considers man and woman married after the first sec act. It tells about in fornicating with harlots, men have become one flesh with harlots.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 6, 2019 16:23:46 GMT -5
But what you aren't taking into consideration here is that it's man's interpretation or rather the church leaders in the beginning, that have decided what they think their God expects as far as sex. It's a good way to make people feel like they are sinners when it becomes a sin to want sex. But the way I see it, if your God exists, he made us to enjoy sex and then he (his priests) decide that sex is a sin. You said that Adam and Eve were sinless BEFORE they realized that they were naked and started having sex. That means that even sex in marriage is a sinful state. And, I disagree that sex should have ever been categorized as a sin. It's a natural part of life and it's been turned into something wrong. Many people have been really messed up by that teaching. I agree with you, snow.... God created Adam and Eve in their Image and Likeness and He/They wanted Adam and Eve to have children so they could rule and reign with Christ in the Universe. To have children they must have SEX intercourse between the TWO of them.
God became VERY angry told Adam and Eve NOT to touch/come near the Forbidden TREE/that is Satan/Serpent, but he deceived Eve with the lust of the FLESH and she committed Adultery sexual relationship with Satan, he was an magnificent, beautiful and the most glorious/highest Arch angel of God.
That was one of the main reasons, God could NOT allow Eve and Satan's seed hybrid children and Adam's children to enter heaven because sin of disobedience. The Godhead closed the door of heaven on them, after death all of humans souls get to stay in HADES, inner earth where Satan keeps them until the Judgement day.
In Genesis 3:15 Christ/God the Son offered Adam and Eve fallen children hope and eternal life. He revealed them His plan of Redemption for 4000 yrs a little bit at a time so, they would be able to recognize when Christ/God appeared in the person Jesus as their Savior.
After the death of Jesus on Calvary's He paid the Ransom price for the fallen humans in full, His Spirit went to Hades and release ALL the Old Testament believers (Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, all the prophets, kings and faithful believers who waited in hope for Jesus to die and pay for their sins) from Satan's prison and brought all of them back to the Father in heaven with him when he ascended.
Jesus said Ye must be BORN AGAIN! none of us can enter heaven with the sinful, rebellious and disobedience spirits because Adam and Eve choice in the Garden of Eden, the natural DEATH of the human body and spiritual death= separation from God for all eternity passed on all of us humans like a terminal cancer.
Why then did Adam not “know” his wife Eve until after they were put out of the Garden? Why would they need children if they were going to live eternally? They weren’t told to go and have children to populate the earth until after they were ousted from the Garden. Having children was Eve’s punishment for her betrayal of Adam by being the one to tempt him to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil.
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Post by nathan on Oct 6, 2019 18:05:21 GMT -5
I agree with you, snow.... God created Adam and Eve in their Image and Likeness and He/They wanted Adam and Eve to have children so they could rule and reign with Christ in the Universe. To have children they must have SEX intercourse between the TWO of them.
God became VERY angry told Adam and Eve NOT to touch/come near the Forbidden TREE/that is Satan/Serpent, but he deceived Eve with the lust of the FLESH and she committed Adultery sexual relationship with Satan, he was an magnificent, beautiful and the most glorious/highest Arch angel of God.
That was one of the main reasons, God could NOT allow Eve and Satan's seed hybrid children and Adam's children to enter heaven because sin of disobedience. The Godhead closed the door of heaven on them, after death all of humans souls get to stay in HADES, inner earth where Satan keeps them until the Judgement day.
In Genesis 3:15 Christ/God the Son offered Adam and Eve fallen children hope and eternal life. He revealed them His plan of Redemption for 4000 yrs a little bit at a time so, they would be able to recognize when Christ/God appeared in the person Jesus as their Savior.
After the death of Jesus on Calvary's He paid the Ransom price for the fallen humans in full, His Spirit went to Hades and release ALL the Old Testament believers (Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, all the prophets, kings and faithful believers who waited in hope for Jesus to die and pay for their sins) from Satan's prison and brought all of them back to the Father in heaven with him when he ascended.
Jesus said Ye must be BORN AGAIN! none of us can enter heaven with the sinful, rebellious and disobedience spirits because Adam and Eve choice in the Garden of Eden, the natural DEATH of the human body and spiritual death= separation from God for all eternity passed on all of us humans like a terminal cancer.
Why then did Adam not “know” his wife Eve until after they were put out of the Garden? Why would they need children if they were going to live eternally? They weren’t told to go and have children to populate the earth until after they were ousted from the Garden. Having children was Eve’s punishment for her betrayal of Adam by being the one to tempt him to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Where does it say in the Bible that Adam and Eve did NOT have SEX after they had sinned? God wants more children like unto His image and Likeness before the FALL of Adam and Eve to rule and reign with Christ on earth and throughout the Universe. How are they going to do that by having SEXUAL intercourse with each others that way their seed would be like Gods! Jesus said "ye are gods!" because they were created in His/theirs image and likeness.
Adam and Eve were punished by natural death and spiritual death= separation from God because they mixed/had sexual intercourse/tainted their pure God's like DNA with Satan/Serpent's evil angelic DNA in the Garden of Eden. There has always been TWO SEEDS in the world after the Garden of Eden. Cain and Abel. God's Children and Satan's children in the world. Tares and Wheat. Sheep and Goats. Good fish and Bad fish.
Jesus said in Matthew 19:4-6 Have ye not read, that he/Christ which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Satan had broken what God had created and joined together husband and wife= Adam and Eve/from Adam's rib in the Garden of Eden, ALL three of them were punished by God. Satan became Adam, Eve and their fallen humans children god. Christ the creator of Adam and Eve because of their disobedience, he was no longer their God and king until he paid the ransom for theirs and sins and all fallen humanity.
The Tree of life= Christ in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve had fellowship with God in human form. The Tree knowledge of good and evil= Satan/Serpent. God gave them a choice either continue having fellowship with Christ= eternal life Or be with Satan/Serpent for eternity in the Lake of fire.
After Adam and Eve sinned they realized they had made the biggest mistake of their life, REPENTED and God the Father sent Christ to be their Redeemer in the Person Jesus. God revealed Their plans of redemption for Adam, Eve and all of their humans children in Genesis 3:15.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 6, 2019 19:22:47 GMT -5
Why then did Adam not “know” his wife Eve until after they were put out of the Garden? Why would they need children if they were going to live eternally? They weren’t told to go and have children to populate the earth until after they were ousted from the Garden. Having children was Eve’s punishment for her betrayal of Adam by being the one to tempt him to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Where does it say in the Bible that Adam and Eve did NOT have SEX after they had sinned? God wants more children like unto His image and Likeness before the FALL of Adam and Eve to rule and reign with Christ on earth and throughout the Universe. How are they going to do that by having SEXUAL intercourse with each others that way their seed would be like Gods! Jesus said "ye are gods!" because they were created in His/theirs image and likeness.
Adam and Eve were punished by natural death and spiritual death= separation from God because they mixed/had sexual intercourse/tainted their pure God's like DNA with Satan/Serpent's evil angelic DNA in the Garden of Eden. There has always been TWO SEEDS in the world after the Garden of Eden. Cain and Abel. God's Children and Satan's children in the world. Tares and Wheat. Sheep and Goats. Good fish and Bad fish.
Jesus said in Matthew 19:4-6 Have ye not read, that he/Christ which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Satan had broken what God had created and joined together husband and wife= Adam and Eve/from Adam's rib in the Garden of Eden, ALL three of them were punished by God. Satan became Adam, Eve and their fallen humans children god. Christ the creator of Adam and Eve because of their disobedience, he was no longer their God and king until he paid the ransom for theirs and sins and all fallen humanity.
The Tree of life= Christ in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve had fellowship with God in human form. The Tree knowledge of good and evil= Satan/Serpent. God gave them a choice either continue having fellowship with Christ= eternal life Or be with Satan/Serpent for eternity in the Lake of fire.
After Adam and Eve sinned they realized they had made the biggest mistake of their life, REPENTED and God the Father sent Christ to be their Redeemer in the Person Jesus. God revealed Their plans of redemption for Adam, Eve and all of their humans children in Genesis 3:15.
After discovering the disobedience by Adam and Eve: God put the curse on the serpent: Genesis 3:14-15 Then he puts the curse on the woman: Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children ; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Then he puts the curse on the man: Genesis 4:17-19 Then he puts them out of the Garden: Genesis 3:22-23 Genesis 4:1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived...
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Post by nathan on Oct 6, 2019 20:17:10 GMT -5
Where does it say in the Bible that Adam and Eve did NOT have SEX after they had sinned? God wants more children like unto His image and Likeness before the FALL of Adam and Eve to rule and reign with Christ on earth and throughout the Universe. How are they going to do that by having SEXUAL intercourse with each others that way their seed would be like Gods! Jesus said "ye are gods!" because they were created in His/theirs image and likeness.
Adam and Eve were punished by natural death and spiritual death= separation from God because they mixed/had sexual intercourse/tainted their pure God's like DNA with Satan/Serpent's evil angelic DNA in the Garden of Eden. There has always been TWO SEEDS in the world after the Garden of Eden. Cain and Abel. God's Children and Satan's children in the world. Tares and Wheat. Sheep and Goats. Good fish and Bad fish.
Jesus said in Matthew 19:4-6 Have ye not read, that he/Christ which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Satan had broken what God had created and joined together husband and wife= Adam and Eve/from Adam's rib in the Garden of Eden, ALL three of them were punished by God. Satan became Adam, Eve and their fallen humans children god. Christ the creator of Adam and Eve because of their disobedience, he was no longer their God and king until he paid the ransom for theirs and sins and all fallen humanity.
The Tree of life= Christ in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve had fellowship with God in human form. The Tree knowledge of good and evil= Satan/Serpent. God gave them a choice either continue having fellowship with Christ= eternal life Or be with Satan/Serpent for eternity in the Lake of fire.
After Adam and Eve sinned they realized they had made the biggest mistake of their life, REPENTED and God the Father sent Christ to be their Redeemer in the Person Jesus. God revealed Their plans of redemption for Adam, Eve and all of their humans children in Genesis 3:15.
After discovering the disobedience by Adam and Eve: God put the curse on the serpent: Genesis 3:14-15 Then he puts the curse on the woman: Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children ; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Then he puts the curse on the man: Genesis 4:17-19 Then he puts them out of the Garden: Genesis 3:22-23 Genesis 4:1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived... Someone wrote: Nov 11, 2010 However, there is no reason to think that Adam and Eve did not have a normal relationship as husband and wife while in the garden of Eden. They were told to “be fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 1:28) which suggests that they engaged in sexual relations from the beginning. No children are described until after they left the garden of Eden.~~ Just like the RCC teachws that Mary the mother of Jesus did NOT have SEXUAL relationship with Joseph her husband after the birth of Jesus as husband and wife. She was a virgin to the time of her death.... That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Joseph had married a beautiful wife and he could NOT have any sexual intimacy time with her after he had obeyed God NOT to have sex with her after the baby Jesus was born.
By the way, Eve was NOT Adam's first wife.... Lilth was! I believe they had SEX with one another in the Garden of Eden before God created Eve to replace Lilth. Adam could NOT have children without a female. Adam and Lilth were created from the same dust of the ground, but Eve from One of Adam's ribs.
Snow... knows about Lilth! She has a good understand on this.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 6, 2019 20:27:23 GMT -5
After discovering the disobedience by Adam and Eve: God put the curse on the serpent: Genesis 3:14-15 Then he puts the curse on the woman: Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children ; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Then he puts the curse on the man: Genesis 4:17-19 Then he puts them out of the Garden: Genesis 3:22-23 Genesis 4:1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived... Someone wrote: Nov 11, 2010 However, there is no reason to think that Adam and Eve did not have a normal relationship as husband and wife while in the garden of Eden. They were told to “be fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 1:28) which suggests that they engaged in sexual relations from the beginning. No children are described until after they left the garden of Eden.~~ Just like the RCC teachws that Mary the mother of Jesus did NOT have SEXUAL relationship with Joseph her husband after the birth of Jesus as husband and wife. She was a virgin to the time of her death.... That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Joseph had married a beautiful wife and he could NOT have any sexual intimacy time with her after he had obeyed God NOT to have sex with her after the baby Jesus was born.
By the way, Eve was NOT Adam's first wife.... Lilth was! I believe they had SEX with one another in the Garden of Eden before God created Eve to replace Lilth. Adam could NOT have children without a female. Adam and Lilth were created from the same dust of the ground, but Eve from One of Adam's ribs.
Snow... knows about Lilth! She has a good understand on this.
But the pangs of childbirth were not given to Eve until just before they were tossed out of the Garden. So either they had never supposedly gotten fruitful to multiply or sex wasn’t for procreation until after the fall of man, when God gave Eve the curse of childbirth.
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