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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 1:57:53 GMT -5
The most main stream and well established church is the Catholic Church. Is that not a cult? No. The first Christian Church. Everything else is a breakaway from that. actually thats wrong the first time it was used was at antioch and they were not catholics...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 2:20:12 GMT -5
No. The first Christian Church. Everything else is a breakaway from that. actually thats wrong the first time it was used was at antioch and they were not catholics... Um, perhaps Wally you need to read a different book. According to tradition, the history of the Catholic Church begins with Jesus Christ and his teachings (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30) and the Catholic Church is a continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 2:28:33 GMT -5
actually thats wrong the first time it was used was at antioch and they were not catholics... Um, perhaps Wally you need to read a different book. According to tradition, the history of the Catholic Church begins with Jesus Christ and his teachings (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30) and the Catholic Church is a continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus. antioch was in the 60's and the catholic church wasn't formed until the late 90's or early 100's....lots of folks claim Christ as their founder...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 2:37:13 GMT -5
Um, perhaps Wally you need to read a different book. According to tradition, the history of the Catholic Church begins with Jesus Christ and his teachings (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30) and the Catholic Church is a continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus. antioch was in the 60's and the catholic church wasn't formed until the late 90's or early 100's.... Sorry Wally the Catholic Church beat them. Started at the same time that Jesus was on Earth, Peter was the first Pope. I know that 2x2;s will never admit that they are a breakaway from the Catholic Church, but so be it. But to the 2x2's credit they did copy a lot of Catholic doctrine, amongst other things.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2019 4:22:12 GMT -5
Many Christians don't acknowledge Peter as the first pope. Here's an alternative view: St. Peter was never a pope of Rome, indeed he was not a bishop at all, but an Apostle. This is the early tradition of the Church of Rome itself and therefore remains the tradition of the rest of the Orthodox Church today. Moreover St. Peter founded not the Church of Rome, but the Church of Antioch. The Church in Rome was founded by St. Paul. This is clear to any reader of the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. orthodoxengland.org.uk/ortpopes.htm
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 7:39:54 GMT -5
antioch was in the 60's and the catholic church wasn't formed until the late 90's or early 100's.... Sorry Wally the Catholic Church beat them. Started at the same time that Jesus was on Earth, Peter was the first Pope. I know that 2x2;s will never admit that they are a breakaway from the Catholic Church, but so be it. But to the 2x2's credit they did copy a lot of Catholic doctrine, amongst other things. a lot of people claim peter or paul also thats nothing new...
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Post by mountain on Feb 16, 2019 8:52:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 14:17:45 GMT -5
Many Christians don't acknowledge Peter as the first pope. Here's an alternative view: St. Peter was never a pope of Rome, indeed he was not a bishop at all, but an Apostle. This is the early tradition of the Church of Rome itself and therefore remains the tradition of the rest of the Orthodox Church today. Moreover St. Peter founded not the Church of Rome, but the Church of Antioch. The Church in Rome was founded by St. Paul. This is clear to any reader of the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. orthodoxengland.org.uk/ortpopes.htmSorry Fixit, I use the Bible, and that can't be wrong.Matthew 16:18 New International Version (NIV) 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
That information trumps the one you are quoting. Bad luck the 2x2's were a bit slow off the mark, didn't start until almost 2000 years later. Had to wait for William Irvine. Oh well, you can't help bad luck, but not to worry be nice to Catholics.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 14:34:59 GMT -5
Yes but you must admit that Pope sounds better than Overseer. Overseer sounds like a person in charge of a road gang, giving orders to Workers. You could use Pop, that is what my Grandchildren call me, and I am the head of our family, I think. Perhaps not, an old Worker Mr. Pickering would not allow us to ever say Pop.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2019 14:58:00 GMT -5
Many Christians don't acknowledge Peter as the first pope. Here's an alternative view: St. Peter was never a pope of Rome, indeed he was not a bishop at all, but an Apostle. This is the early tradition of the Church of Rome itself and therefore remains the tradition of the rest of the Orthodox Church today. Moreover St. Peter founded not the Church of Rome, but the Church of Antioch. The Church in Rome was founded by St. Paul. This is clear to any reader of the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. orthodoxengland.org.uk/ortpopes.htmSorry Fixit, I use the Bible, and that can't be wrong.Matthew 16:18 New International Version (NIV) 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
That information trumps the one you are quoting. Bad luck the 2x2's were a bit slow off the mark, didn't start until almost 2000 years later. Had to wait for William Irvine. Oh well, you can't help bad luck, but not to worry be nice to Catholics.Jesus was saying he would build his church on personal revelation from his father in heaven, not on a person. The keys to successful ministry for Peter would be to bind and loose on earth what has already been bound and loosed in heaven. Only personal revelation and submission to heaven's guidance would make that possible. Matt 18:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” [e] Matthew 16:19 Or will have been
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Post by mountain on Feb 16, 2019 15:40:43 GMT -5
Jesus was stating his church would be built upon a personal relationship with God. God would reveal things to those who follow his son.
John 6.45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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Post by mountain on Feb 16, 2019 15:44:04 GMT -5
Yes but you must admit that Pope sounds better than Overseer. Overseer sounds like a person in charge of a road gang, giving orders to Workers. You could use Pop, that is what my Grandchildren call me, and I am the head of our family, I think. Perhaps not, an old Worker Mr. Pickering would not allow us to ever say Pop. The emboldened portion is basically what it's like, is it not? Also, overseers often go overseas? Road gang? I like that. Well they are often on the road!
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2019 21:03:51 GMT -5
I have no argument with you Redback, but I'm not sure that I understand how you envisage this should be implemented: "their duty of care toward those who have been hurt by wrongdoings by members of the Church, in the past". Redback, I'm still no clearer on what you'd like overseers to do. Apart from to give elders more responsibility.
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Post by ellie on Feb 16, 2019 21:58:10 GMT -5
An old Worker Mr. Pickering would not allow us to ever say Pop. That's interesting! I was never allowed to say Pop and thought it had something to do with the meetings but never understood why. This is the first time I've heard something similar.
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 16, 2019 23:40:09 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Worker said Not allowed to say Pop? Was he ever a bartender ? Maybe it’s to do with an incident happened here . A weasel (not professing , at least not possessing ) Walked into a local bar . The bartender was kinda surprised , and told the weasel he had never served a weasel before and wondered “ what can I get you to drink “
Pop , goes the weasel
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janj
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Post by janj on Feb 17, 2019 5:00:58 GMT -5
An old Worker Mr. Pickering would not allow us to ever say Pop. That's interesting! I was never allowed to say Pop and thought it had something to do with the meetings but never understood why. This is the first time I've heard something similar. In what context was the word 'pop'used?,
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Post by openingact34 on Feb 17, 2019 10:14:29 GMT -5
Yes but you must admit that Pope sounds better than Overseer. Overseer sounds like a person in charge of a road gang, giving orders to Workers. You could use Pop, that is what my Grandchildren call me, and I am the head of our family, I think. Perhaps not, an old Worker Mr. Pickering would not allow us to ever say Pop. If you grow up and are schooled in the US, you typically learn the the term overseer when studying the history of slavery on southern American plantations. The overseer was the general manager and disciplinarian ... sometimes also called the slave driver. Despite growing up 2x2, that is the primary word association for me. spartacus-educational.com/USASoverseers.htm
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 17, 2019 10:29:43 GMT -5
interesting never heard of the word "pop" being taboo. Maybe it's an Aussy thing. Does the word have a nasty connotation in some area? We weren't allowed to say words that were similar or a substitute for a cussword; such as dang, darn--they were too much like dam Shucks was ok, but not sh**t.
I think of it mainly regarding: Pop music (a genre of popular music that originated in its modern form in the U.S. and UK during the mid-1950s
"pop the hood" commonly used for opening a car hood.
a soda pop (carbonated beverage)
Acronym Definition
POP Post Office Protocol (Internet email protocol)
POP Point of Presence
POP Popular
POP Piece Of Paper
POP Package on Package (integrated circuits)
POP Population
POP Point of Purchase
POP Part of Process
POP Party of the People
POP People of Peace
POP Prince of Persia (video game)
POP Principles of Practice (healthcare)
POP Percent of Precipitation (meteorology)
POP Plenty of Parking
POP Prince of Peace
POP Princess of Power (She-Ra toy and animated TV show)
POP Proof of Purchase
POP Point of Presence (interface)
POP Principles of Persuasion (workshop)
POP Proof of Performance
POP Proof-of-Payment (public transportation fare collection)
POP People of Praise (various locations)
POP Proof of Product (validate/verify vendor's part number)
POP Principles of Programming
POP Pursuit of Perfection (gaming)
POP Pace of Play
POP Premium Only Plan (employee benefit plan)
POP Pacific Ocean Park (nautical theme park)
POP Proof of Principle
POP Power of Partnership (various organizations)
POP Principles of Partnership (various organizations)
POP Put on Production
POP Port of Portland (various locations)
POP Power of Prayer
POP Probability of Precipitation
POP Parallel Ocean Program (Global Ocean Model)
POP Psychology of Poker (book)
POP Plaster of Paris
POP Problem Oriented Policing
POP Post-Operative Pain
POP Physics of Plasmas (journal; American Institute of Physics)
POP Public Offering Price (finance)
POP Parti Ouvrier et Populaire (Swiss political party)
POP Piece of Pie
POP Purchase Order Processing
POP Pelvic Organ Prolapse
POP Persistent Organic Pollutant
POP Progestogen-Only Pill (contraception)
POP Proofs-of-Principle
POP Parents of Prodigals
POP Public Order Police (various organizations)
POP Prison Outreach Program
POP Power Of The Pen
POP Probability of Paternity
POP Period Of Performance
POP Processor on Plug-in
POP Picture Out Picture
POP Package on Package
POP Package for Online Programming
POP Pay One Price
POP Partial Order Plan
POP Pseudo Operation
POP Post Office Protocol
POP Protected Object Policy
POP Proof of Payment
POP Proof of Possession
POP Performance Optimized Program
POP Picture over Picture
POP Picture on Picture
POP Passing Out Parade
POP Prophets of Profit
POP Place of Performance
POP Planes of Power (Everquest expansion)
POP Picture Outside Picture (television feature)
POP Point of Production
POP Pop From Stack
POP Program Operating Plan
POP Power of Prevention (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists)
POP Printing-Out Paper
POP Proper Operating Procedure (military)
POP Policy Option Package (Oregon)
POP Point of Penetration
POP Performance Oriented Packaging
POP Principal-Only Payment (loans)
POP Process Operating Procedure
POP Pissed Off Person
POP Prolyl Oligopeptidase
POP Pokémon Organized Play
POP Picture of Performance (human resources)
POP Placement of Product (marketing)
POP Parks Opportunity Program (New York, NY)
POP Plug-in Optronic Payload
POP Pain on Palpation
POP Percutaneous Osseointegrated Prosthesis
POP Political Opportunity Program (women's political campaigns)
POP Personal Online Planner
POP Parent Orientation Program (various colleges/universities)
POP Programmable Optical Processor (software)
POP Peak Overpressure
POP Pulse Oximeter Plethysmograph
POP Polar Orbiting Platform (ASPRS)
POP Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic - La Union (Airport Code)
POP Palestinian Opinion Pulse (Jerusalem Media and Communication Center)
POP Professional Options Package
POP Package-Oriented Programming
POP Payment on Principal (lending)
POP Precision Optical Performance
POP Picture on Profile (roleplaying gaming)
POP Personalized Online Photo, LLC
POP Prodigies of Peace
POP Post Office Preferred (envelope size which conforms to Post Office requirement)
POP Processing of Precursor
POP Plasma Oscillation Probe
POP Peak Optical Power
POP Processor on Plug-In (H/W)
POP Perpendicular to Orbital Plane
POP Premium Offset Plan (insurance)
POP Project Objective Plan
POP Persistent Occipitoposterior Position (complication of labor and delivery)
POP Pulsed Optically Pumped (quantum optical physics)
POP Parity of Product
POP Presensitized Offset Plate
POP Power Optimization Problem
POP Pipeline Outfit, Petroleum
POP Pre-Teens Oppose Prohibition (Kids Next Door show)
POP Protected Outperformance Participation Unit
POP Pustaka-On-Phone
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 15:08:43 GMT -5
That's interesting! I was never allowed to say Pop and thought it had something to do with the meetings but never understood why. This is the first time I've heard something similar. In what context was the word 'pop'used?, Children were not allowed to call their Father Pop. Dam was another word that was taboo, yet it was where animals drank water. Mr Pickering used to spend a lot of time living with us, and it used to give us the sh*ts, he was a real pain in the ass.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 17, 2019 16:25:25 GMT -5
Pickerings sounds like so many other workers with li ited intelligence and so do not consider the situation properly. Another words, there is a serious lack of critical thinking.
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Post by ellie on Feb 18, 2019 4:58:20 GMT -5
That's interesting! I was never allowed to say Pop and thought it had something to do with the meetings but never understood why. This is the first time I've heard something similar. In what context was the word 'pop'used?, In lieu of grandfather in my case.
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help
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Post by help on Aug 12, 2022 4:43:05 GMT -5
Seems to be problems in 2x2 paradise down under in Australia. Maybe the Commander Graeme Snow has a bit of a problem to deal with. Workers speaking out about bullying by other Workers have been sacked. Management seems to be supporting the bullies. Of course that contravenes the law regarding Work Practices.
Oh the perfect way does seem to not be completely harmonious. Does sort of make you wonder if human nature can be tamed.
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 12, 2022 4:56:28 GMT -5
Seems to be problems in 2x2 paradise down under in Australia. Maybe the Commander Graeme Snow has a bit of a problem to deal with. Workers speaking out about bullying by other Workers have been sacked. Management seems to be supporting the bullies. Of course that contravenes the law regarding Work Practices. Oh the perfect way does seem to not be completely harmonious. Does sort of make you wonder if human nature can be tamed. There has been problems there from day one, and I think here always will be. Yes you’re probably right. The taming of human nature is quite some task.
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help
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Post by help on Aug 12, 2022 20:20:45 GMT -5
IMO the problem is inherent, because of Church structure or lack of it. When you read Cherie's book you get to understand this in a better way. When William Irvine started the 2x2 Church it was only to be Evangelistic. Everybody was a Worker and was itinerant just preaching the Gospel. Converts went back to the Church of their choice. This was in keeping with Jesus who was an Evangelist, not the head of a Church. Jesus gave that task to Peter.
It was some 6 years after the beginning by WI that the first Fellowship meeting was held. That is when the first 2x2 Church began. But there was no laid down structure, Workers were in charge without any documented instructions. It became clandestine, a fertile environment for wrongdoing to flourish. Workers should only preach the Gospel, Elders should run the Church and be trained in providing Pastoral care for Laity. It provides a proper place for Church members to take any problems they encounter.
After the many problems that the 2x2 Church has had over the years, you wonder when they will wake up. You would have thought that 60 Minutes Programme would have been a wake up call. Seems they have slipped back to the Worker attitude, "Don't rock the Boat, Keep the Peace". Anybody who speaks out, is thrown out, perpetrators get Worker protection.
I think we will hear a lot more about the Queensland turmoil, because the information is coming from an ex Worker. Same old problems, Worker Bullying, Cover up of Domestic Violence, Rape, CSA, Sexual Immorality, and the evergreen Lack of Financial Transparency. Some of the behaviour has been criminal and should have been reported to the Police.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 13, 2022 15:05:14 GMT -5
Seems to be problems in 2x2 paradise down under in Australia. Maybe the Commander Graeme Snow has a bit of a problem to deal with. Workers speaking out about bullying by other Workers have been sacked. Management seems to be supporting the bullies. Of course that contravenes the law regarding Work Practices. Oh the perfect way does seem to not be completely harmonious. Does sort of make you wonder if human nature can be tamed. Very unedifying posts. It is a perfect Way and the Only Way. We need to welcome 2x2s with posts about how women with jeans or short hair are going to hell. Not these kind of accusations. It reminds me of a classic Bert cartoon:
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Post by guest8 on Aug 13, 2022 16:06:27 GMT -5
It appears, 'Women's pants' has never recovered from not being allowed to wear womens pants years ago...to the degree, the vitriol to the church still remains. I'm not sure why she allows it to dominate her waking hours and expressed through dramatic posts. Its all so silly. Some would say sad. I'm off to the garden now in my jeans, to enjoy life regardless of what my past with its idiosyncrasies may of been.
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help
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Post by help on Aug 13, 2022 16:48:38 GMT -5
Workers should read this verse more often.
◄ Matthew 23:24 ► New International Version
You blind guides! You strain out a Gnat but swallow a Camel.
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Post by chuck on Aug 17, 2022 7:45:36 GMT -5
IMO the problem is inherent, because of Church structure or lack of it. When you read Cherie's book you get to understand this in a better way. When William Irvine started the 2x2 Church it was only to be Evangelistic. Everybody was a Worker and was itinerant just preaching the Gospel. Converts went back to the Church of their choice. This was in keeping with Jesus who was an Evangelist, not the head of a Church. Jesus gave that task to Peter. It was some 6 years after the beginning by WI that the first Fellowship meeting was held. That is when the first 2x2 Church began. But there was no laid down structure, Workers were in charge without any documented instructions. It became clandestine, a fertile environment for wrongdoing to flourish. Workers should only preach the Gospel, Elders should run the Church and be trained in providing Pastoral care for Laity. It provides a proper place for Church members to take any problems they encounter. After the many problems that the 2x2 Church has had over the years, you wonder when they will wake up. You would have thought that 60 Minutes Programme would have been a wake up call. Seems they have slipped back to the Worker attitude, "Don't rock the Boat, Keep the Peace". Anybody who speaks out, is thrown out, perpetrators get Worker protection. I think we will hear a lot more about the Queensland turmoil, because the information is coming from an ex Worker. Same old problems, Worker Bullying, Cover up of Domestic Violence, Rape, CSA, Sexual Immorality, and the evergreen Lack of Financial Transparency. Some of the behaviour has been criminal and should have been reported to the Police. What we are witnessing is nothing new, the very book they use daily describes what is playing out and that was thousands of years ago, it's a pity they don't understand the Pharisees and the context surrounding them. You are right, the poop is about to hit the fan in Australia again, they learnt nothing after the sixty minutes debacle, most still treat that as taboo, the culture still stinks, the ship is sinking, not many have enough faith to get out of the boat and walk on the water........The symbolism behind that story is so fitting.
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