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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 2:09:21 GMT -5
Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe the there is no after life. Why? I can't understand why you would think that.
Why wouldn't someone want to give up those "frail and failing bodies" for a new wonderful "whole eternal body" as STR stated if one could believe that there is an "after life?"
As I said with your other similar post, -that just doesn't make any sense. about as much sense as posting on TMB in the wee hours of the morning (I'm guilty as well!) 🤗. Night
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2018 2:15:50 GMT -5
It is just one more reason I DO believe in an afterlife. My God is weaning me from wanting to live in this life forever. Every day is a reminder to me of death burial and resurrection, though I know and recognize it is not so for many others. So many in this forum remind me of one who encouraged her husband to just curse God and die.
Gonna die, not gonna curse God. What He allows, I both WILL, and CAN endure. Besides, there are many in this life worse off than I am, which I am reminded of with every visit to the VA facility. Why?
Why should you think that many of us on this forum reminds you of Job's wife who encouraged her husband to "just curse God and die?"
Why would I "curse" a entity that I don't believe exists?
That wouldn't make a lot of sense.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 10:22:22 GMT -5
Jesus said God would have to "draw" people before they would be ready to come to Jesus. God also is the one who gives the faith to believe on Jesus Christ, it is the Father AND the Son who give the Holy Spirit to people. Doesn't sound much like people have a whole lot of choices. God had planned, blue printed the earth and universe, the angels, the number of souls he created. Some people say that before the world ever became that God had already created all the souls of humanity, though only sending just some at a time to earth into human body. He foreknew whom he'd created and he Foreknew when he'd send them to live in the earth. He Foreknew whim he could use for various conditions, etc. God has not played it half handed, he knew and still knows what his will and purpose is for everyone and everything. God and the Holy Spirit draw people come to Christ, and each has to say, "I want Jesus Christ to be MY Savior, who has REDEEMED my sins, with His own precious blood of the Lamb of God."
That was one of the MAIN reasons, Christ came down from heaven and died the horrible death on Calvary's= the Second death. If God had known so and so already SAVED before they were born, then the death of Jesus on Calvary's Cross was a horrible plan from God the Father wanting to SEE His own begotten Son SUFFERED in great pain naturally and spiritually separated from Him forever! WHAT kind of a horrible father would do that to His own begotten Son?
Your own interpretation of Predestination, so and so were SAVED, and so and so are already DAMMED to HELL before they were born, he or she has NO Chance to choose! to have Christ as their SAVIOR, it doesn't make sense or that is a BAD plan from God the Father in my book.
I told you before God's elect has to hear the gospel story just like always. They are the "few chosen", though many are called. Being called are the people who hear the gospel story, the few chosen are those God chooses to "draw" and God chooses those whom he "gives faith to believe in Jesus Christ". It is all about God's will and purpose and God's choices that count. Mankind cannot know to "choose" without the "drawing by God", for they are dead in trespasses and sin. Yes, by all means people that are "drawn by God" are choosing to believe however they would never choose such if they hadn't been drawn by God. People are not born saved! They have to hear the gospel before they ever supposedly "choose". However they wouldn't "choose" if God hadn't "drawn" them while they heard the gospel.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 10:24:46 GMT -5
Jesus said God would have to "draw" people before they would be ready to come to Jesus. God also is the one who gives the faith to believe on Jesus Christ, it is the Father AND the Son who give the Holy Spirit to people. Doesn't sound much like people have a whole lot of choices. God had planned, blue printed the earth and universe, the angels, the number of souls he created. Some people say that before the world ever became that God had already created all the souls of humanity, though only sending just some at a time to earth into human body. He foreknew whom he'd created and he Foreknew when he'd send them to live in the earth. He Foreknew whim he could use for various conditions, etc. God has not played it half handed, he knew and still knows what his will and purpose is for everyone and everything. still don't believe in that predestination stuff. sounds too much like a rigged game. who would want to serve a God that did that.... Even not believing in presdestination, God has to "draw" a person before they can come through Christ. So isn't that God's choosing?
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Post by nathan on Sept 4, 2018 10:58:25 GMT -5
God and the Holy Spirit draw people come to Christ, and each has to say, "I want Jesus Christ to be MY Savior, who has REDEEMED my sins, with His own precious blood of the Lamb of God."
That was one of the MAIN reasons, Christ came down from heaven and died the horrible death on Calvary's= the Second death. If God had known so and so already SAVED before they were born, then the death of Jesus on Calvary's Cross was a horrible plan from God the Father wanting to SEE His own begotten Son SUFFERED in great pain naturally and spiritually separated from Him forever! WHAT kind of a horrible father would do that to His own begotten Son?
Your own interpretation of Predestination, so and so were SAVED, and so and so are already DAMMED to HELL before they were born, he or she has NO Chance to choose! to have Christ as their SAVIOR, it doesn't make sense or that is a BAD plan from God the Father in my book.
I told you before God's elect has to hear the gospel story just like always. They are the "few chosen", though many are called. Being called are the people who hear the gospel story, the few chosen are those God chooses to "draw" and God chooses those whom he "gives faith to believe in Jesus Christ". It is all about God's will and purpose and God's choices that count. Mankind cannot know to "choose" without the "drawing by God", for they are dead in trespasses and sin. Yes, by all means people that are "drawn by God" are choosing to believe however they would never choose such if they hadn't been drawn by God. People are not born saved! They have to hear the gospel before they ever supposedly "choose". However they wouldn't "choose" if God hadn't "drawn" them while they heard the gospel. *** WHY would people NEED to hear the gospel when God already predetermined so and so SAVED and so and so are damned to Hades before they were born?
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Post by nathan on Sept 4, 2018 11:40:05 GMT -5
still don't believe in that predestination stuff. sounds too much like a rigged game. who would want to serve a God that did that.... Even not believing in presdestination, God has to "draw" a person before they can come through Christ. So isn't that God's choosing? ** Your interpretation of predestination is NOT correct. In Tim. Paul wrote God wants ALL men to be SAVED not just so and so.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 12:37:40 GMT -5
Well isn't "frail and failing bodies" just another reason that people want to believe in an "after life?"
Isn't that just more evidence that human nature tends to want to believe in something because it is "comforting," -whether there is any evidence or not? Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe that there is no after life. No! A frail and failing bodied person that believe in Jesus Christ knows the Bible promises no more pain, sorrows, tears, suffering...so naturally they're are looking forward to an eternal life without all of that pain, suffering, tears, sorrows, and obtaining a perfected body.
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Post by snow on Sept 4, 2018 12:44:17 GMT -5
Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe the there is no after life. Why? I can't understand why you would think that.
Why wouldn't someone want to give up those "frail and failing bodies" for a new wonderful "whole eternal body" as STR stated if one could believe that there is an "after life?"
As I said with your other similar post, -that just doesn't make any sense.Yes I'm trying to make sense of it too. So far it's not computing! Probably just another jab at atheists trying to get across how meaningless our lives are. We can't believe that atheists can have meaning in their lives after all. If they don't believe in a god and an afterlife, well they are useless waste of skin and their lives have no meaning. Guess that's why it's okay in some countries to kill us just because we don't believe as they do.
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Post by snow on Sept 4, 2018 12:49:04 GMT -5
Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe that there is no after life. No! A frail and failing bodied person that believe in Jesus Christ knows the Bible promises no more pain, sorrows, tears, suffering...so naturally they're are looking forward to an eternal life without all of that pain, suffering, tears, sorrows, and obtaining a perfected body. I think he's talking about atheists STR. He somehow thinks that our frail aging bodies is the reason we don't want an afterlife, which of course makes zero sense.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 12:59:30 GMT -5
Even not believing in presdestination, God has to "draw" a person before they can come through Christ. So isn't that God's choosing? ** Your interpretation of predestination is NOT correct. In Tim. Paul wrote God wants ALL men to be SAVED not just so and so. You need to follow the chain in this. Peter said that "God would not that any man should perish". Timothy says "who will have all men to be saved, and come until the knowledge if truth". Then Timothy goes on to say "Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power there of, from such turn ye away.". "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because be we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour if all men, ' SPECIALLY if those that believe." Another verse says that God had to give them over to reprobate minds. Another speaks about those who have a zeal without knowledge. God knows who is leaning on their own righteousness and choices. But even in the OT people could not rely on their own choices. Doesn't it say something about "Lord, if you can use me, send THOU me." Coming to the truth is coming to realize that each of us has to be totally dependent in God for salvation. As I said it's AFTER God draws a person that he is able to make a choice. It's conditioning by God through his drawing that anyone can make any choice for God. I didn't say God said so and so would be saved, but it wouldn't be impossible because in the beginning and in the long run, it's God's will and purpose that ends up who is drawn and who is given faith to believe on Jesus Christ.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 13:07:45 GMT -5
No! A frail and failing bodied person that believe in Jesus Christ knows the Bible promises no more pain, sorrows, tears, suffering...so naturally they're are looking forward to an eternal life without all of that pain, suffering, tears, sorrows, and obtaining a perfected body. I think he's talking about atheists STR. He somehow thinks that our frail aging bodies is the reason we don't want an afterlife, which of course makes zero sense. I suppose if we look at those who are depressed and don't want to continue living, they may be the ones who's frail and failing bodies make them want to die. I know my pain is enough at times it wouldn't be hard to come to the conclusion I no longer want to live. But then I know to endure and over come is what I can do, always trying to hang on until another time if less suffering appears. Right now my rheumatoid arthritis and my 9 HNP makes for nearly my whole body screaming fir relief. It's said that weather has nothing to do with arthritis, but I invite those who says that to just make themselves me for a couple of years, they'd find out, eh? 😛
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 13:16:32 GMT -5
Even not believing in presdestination, God has to "draw" a person before they can come through Christ. So isn't that God's choosing? ** Your interpretation of predestination is NOT correct. In Tim. Paul wrote God wants ALL men to be SAVED not just so and so. We are predestined in Christ. In other words, our predestination is for those who accept Jesus KJV Ephesians 1:5-9 King James Version (KJV) 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 13:17:47 GMT -5
I told you before God's elect has to hear the gospel story just like always. They are the "few chosen", though many are called. Being called are the people who hear the gospel story, the few chosen are those God chooses to "draw" and God chooses those whom he "gives faith to believe in Jesus Christ". It is all about God's will and purpose and God's choices that count. Mankind cannot know to "choose" without the "drawing by God", for they are dead in trespasses and sin. Yes, by all means people that are "drawn by God" are choosing to believe however they would never choose such if they hadn't been drawn by God. People are not born saved! They have to hear the gospel before they ever supposedly "choose". However they wouldn't "choose" if God hadn't "drawn" them while they heard the gospel. *** WHY would people NEED to hear the gospel when God already predetermined so and so SAVED and so and so are damned to Hades before they were born? I told you that NO ONE is born saved, or born knowing God's will and purpose. I also told you that the "Many are called but few are chosen" explains that there will be many who hear the gospel message but there will be few of those many who are chosen by God to draw, to gift with faith in Jesus Christ. God's reasons for whomever he calls are unbeknownst to man. But he created their soul/spirit and that soul/spirit stay under God's controlled until it was sent to earth to obtain the human body God meant for it alone. The Bible indicates that it is only and all about who will bring or give Glory to God's name. It says that the Work of God is to believe on him whom God has sent. God gives that faith to whomever he knows can deliver glory to and in God's name.
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Post by snow on Sept 4, 2018 13:41:22 GMT -5
I think he's talking about atheists STR. He somehow thinks that our frail aging bodies is the reason we don't want an afterlife, which of course makes zero sense. I suppose if we look at those who are depressed and don't want to continue living, they may be the ones who's frail and failing bodies make them want to die. I know my pain is enough at times it wouldn't be hard to come to the conclusion I no longer want to live. But then I know to endure and over come is what I can do, always trying to hang on until another time if less suffering appears. Right now my rheumatoid arthritis and my 9 HNP makes for nearly my whole body screaming fir relief. It's said that weather has nothing to do with arthritis, but I invite those who says that to just make themselves me for a couple of years, they'd find out, eh? 😛 Yes, I'm sure there are many that are in pain with no quality of life left that do welcome death. We just have different ideas of what happens after death. I get to have nothing but an eternal sleep and others feel they live forever in some form or the other. I don't know if the weather has anything to do with it or not. I do know if I'm cold I am in a lot more pain. Tensing of the muscles I suppose from the cold. I am in less pain sitting in the warm sun.
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Post by snow on Sept 4, 2018 13:44:33 GMT -5
*** WHY would people NEED to hear the gospel when God already predetermined so and so SAVED and so and so are damned to Hades before they were born? I told you that NO ONE is born saved, or born knowing God's will and purpose. I also told you that the "Many are called but few are chosen" explains that there will be many who hear the gospel message but there will be few of those many who are chosen by God to draw, to gift with faith in Jesus Christ. God's reasons for whomever he calls are unbeknownst to man. But he created their soul/spirit and that soul/spirit stay under God's controlled until it was sent to earth to obtain the human body God meant for it alone. The Bible indicates that it is only and all about who will bring or give Glory to God's name. It says that the Work of God is to believe on him whom God has sent. God gives that faith to whomever he knows can deliver glory to and in God's name. I've been following this conversation and I have a question. Do you think that some people just aren't chosen for eternal bliss and there is nothing they can do about it? If that is true then everything is predestined. Which makes god a pretty ruthless kind of guy because according to the bible if you aren't chosen you get to live forever in hell.
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Post by snow on Sept 4, 2018 13:54:31 GMT -5
If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. And following up on that thought and the bet that God and Satan had regarding Job, it looks very much like Satan won. He got more people in his place than God got in his. If it was just a bet to see who could win the most souls, God truly lost. Makes more sense now why Satan left heaven with 1/3 of the angels. It was all planned. Heaven got boring so God and Lucifer made a bet just to liven things up. Okay, maybe I should take up writing fiction lol... Sounds like the extra mansions will be a 'final solution' of sorts. Well isn't that what believing in an afterlife does? Give a 'final solution'? If you can't believe in God, the bible says your doomed. I didn't like that belief when it applied to the 2x2 doctrine that the rest of my family were going to hell for not professing, and I don't think much of the bible's belief that if you're not a born again Christian you go to the same place. It's just exclusivity on a larger scale. Of course the monotheistic religions all do that. That's just their doctrine.
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Post by nathan on Sept 4, 2018 14:30:57 GMT -5
I told you that NO ONE is born saved, or born knowing God's will and purpose. I also told you that the "Many are called but few are chosen" explains that there will be many who hear the gospel message but there will be few of those many who are chosen by God to draw, to gift with faith in Jesus Christ. God's reasons for whomever he calls are unbeknownst to man. But he created their soul/spirit and that soul/spirit stay under God's controlled until it was sent to earth to obtain the human body God meant for it alone. The Bible indicates that it is only and all about who will bring or give Glory to God's name. It says that the Work of God is to believe on him whom God has sent. God gives that faith to whomever he knows can deliver glory to and in God's name. I've been following this conversation and I have a question. Do you think that some people just aren't chosen for eternal bliss and there is nothing they can do about it? If that is true then everything is predestined. Which makes god a pretty ruthless kind of guy because according to the bible if you aren't chosen you get to live forever in hell. ** Amen, snow... God already predestined you to eternal Hell, what good does it do to accept Jesus. If I am predestined to be SAVED then I can do whatever I can now. That is one of the main Baptist doctrines Once SAVED is Always SAVED. Predestination. POTS= preserving of the saints.
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Post by snow on Sept 4, 2018 15:31:36 GMT -5
I've been following this conversation and I have a question. Do you think that some people just aren't chosen for eternal bliss and there is nothing they can do about it? If that is true then everything is predestined. Which makes god a pretty ruthless kind of guy because according to the bible if you aren't chosen you get to live forever in hell. ** Amen, snow... God already predestined you to eternal Hell, what good does it do to accept Jesus. If I am predestined to be SAVED then I can do whatever I can now. That is one of the main Baptist doctrines Once SAVED is Always SAVED. Predestination. POTS= preserving of the saints. Thankfully I don't need to believe in God to care for and love others. He may not want me in heaven, but that's not going to make me a different person here. I will continue to try and do as little harm as I can during my life and help as much as I can. It just makes sense to me.
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Post by Dennis J on Sept 4, 2018 18:05:04 GMT -5
With mankind, and thus myself and all posting here, predestination must precede foreknowledge. Does anyone disagree with this? Not so with God, for whom foreknowledge precedes predestination. We cannot fore know events prior to predetermination, yes? We do not exist in the past, present AND future.
Now naturally we do have the ability to determine cause and effect, as well as affect, resulting in things such as death and suicide, and such like. But even then we can be wrong! From what I know about my God through what He has revealed of Himself to others and then to myself, God exists in the future otherwise unknown to me.
Thus, He knows my end as a result of already knowing my hearts intents and purposes. Yeah, I know, some of you cannot stand nor understand such a belief yet what either of us believe cannot change what is, however. Can it? Or not? Pascal’s wager is based upon that very concept, as I perceive it. I digress.
Thus existing in the future, what God chooses to do or use in the present, cannot, will not change my outcome in this life. Why am I still alive? Go to any cemetery, take note of the lifetime of those memorialized there. A very small percentage have lived so long as some of us. I, though even if in the vast minority, accept my God has intent for each person in this awareness. Mine is obviously not yet fully accomplished, or I too would be pushing up various forms of new life.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 20:52:14 GMT -5
I told you that NO ONE is born saved, or born knowing God's will and purpose. I also told you that the "Many are called but few are chosen" explains that there will be many who hear the gospel message but there will be few of those many who are chosen by God to draw, to gift with faith in Jesus Christ. God's reasons for whomever he calls are unbeknownst to man. But he created their soul/spirit and that soul/spirit stay under God's controlled until it was sent to earth to obtain the human body God meant for it alone. The Bible indicates that it is only and all about who will bring or give Glory to God's name. It says that the Work of God is to believe on him whom God has sent. God gives that faith to whomever he knows can deliver glory to and in God's name. I've been following this conversation and I have a question. Do you think that some people just aren't chosen for eternal bliss and there is nothing they can do about it? If that is true then everything is predestined. Which makes god a pretty ruthless kind of guy because according to the bible if you aren't chosen you get to live forever in hell. Anything is possible with God. Jesus told that about rich folks, though generally it is hard for rich people to enter into heaven. But it is a possibility by God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 21:01:38 GMT -5
With mankind, and thus myself and all posting here, predestination must precede foreknowledge. Does anyone disagree with this? Not so with God, for whom foreknowledge precedes predestination. We cannot fore know events prior to predetermination, yes? We do not exist in the past, present AND future.
Now naturally we do have the ability to determine cause and effect, as well as affect, resulting in things such as death and suicide, and such like. But even then we can be wrong! From what I know about my God through what He has revealed of Himself to others and then to myself, God exists in the future otherwise unknown to me.
Thus, He knows my end as a result of already knowing my hearts intents and purposes. Yeah, I know, some of you cannot stand nor understand such a belief yet what either of us believe cannot change what is, however. Can it? Or not? Pascal’s wager is based upon that very concept, as I perceive it. I digress.
Thus existing in the future, what God chooses to do or use in the present, cannot, will not change my outcome in this life. Why am I still alive? Go to any cemetery, take note of the lifetime of those memorialized there. A very small percentage have lived so long as some of us. I, though even if in the vast minority, accept my God has intent for each person in this awareness. Mine is obviously not yet fully accomplished, or I too would be pushing up various forms of new life. Thanks, Dennis. The more I learn about the Bible the more I realize God had everything planned to the inth degree before he ever set in to creation and even before he formed the world. I think it's like architects develop blue prints and if a large project, they even construct a table model to work out all the details and hopefully any flaws or unusuable portions. The first part of Genesis gives the impression God just started creating left and right without forethought or planning. But reading on through the Bible and with experience in should begin to gather in the thoughts that God knew exactly what he was doing. His forethoughts or his planning all moved into place because he'd pre-planned. The difference in God's pre-planning was set to cover all through the years not just an era, but eons. JMO
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 21:24:38 GMT -5
I've been following this conversation and I have a question. Do you think that some people just aren't chosen for eternal bliss and there is nothing they can do about it? If that is true then everything is predestined. Which makes god a pretty ruthless kind of guy because according to the bible if you aren't chosen you get to live forever in hell. ** Amen, snow... God already predestined you to eternal Hell, what good does it do to accept Jesus. If I am predestined to be SAVED then I can do whatever I can now. That is one of the main Baptist doctrines Once SAVED is Always SAVED. Predestination. POTS= preserving of the saints. I'd appreciate it if you'd quit saying being predestined to live in hell. That IS NOT what the Bible or I'm saying Jesus told his followers that it was hard for a rich man to enter in the kingdom of heaven, but all things are possible with God. God's Foreknowledge us such of the souls/spirits he created before the world ever became he can under his own counsel predestinate whom he elects. However, all of us are born in the flesh without knowledge of God is what his will and purpose is as far as we are concerned. Thus we are just as lost and dead in trespasses and sins as anybody. So it is the gospel we must learn and it is by Jesus' sacrifice we are saved. However in fulfilling Jesus' words, "Many are called but few are chosen". God determines who that "few"are by his own counsel. It is those "few" whom he had drawn, whom he has given the faith to believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus said that any coming to him must be drawn by the Father first. As anything is possible with God, there are times God knows of people who are honest and sincere. Who repent of their sins, who supplicate to God for His forgiveness and mercy. God made man in his image and he knew well that it would turn out many would feel it unnecessary to depend on God for anything. But God chooses those whom he knows that will concern themselves with God's will and purpose, his glory not their own. Read Romans 9, it tells about God loving Jacob and hating Esau, before they were born, before they'd ever sinned. I suppose you think that's not fair, nor upright of God to do. But Nathan, God said in answer to that that he will have mercy on whom he will and not on whom he will. Is that unfair? No! Because God knows all things, has planned all things, even planned for exigencies and even for unaccepting, unwilling mankind. It's like I think Dennis was saying, we live in the "now", God lives in the future. However we are destined to live, to die and do as God had planned in the past before we were given a body. Though it's possible for God to change that, let's take Hezekiah's extended life for example. There's been changes for a few all throughout history. Changes dealing with lifespan, salvation, etc. But God does all that on his own.
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Post by nathan on Sept 4, 2018 22:04:24 GMT -5
** Amen, snow... God already predestined you to eternal Hell, what good does it do to accept Jesus. If I am predestined to be SAVED then I can do whatever I can now. That is one of the main Baptist doctrines Once SAVED is Always SAVED. Predestination. POTS= preserving of the saints. I'd appreciate it if you'd quit saying being predestined to live in hell. That IS NOT what the Bible or I'm saying Jesus told his followers that it was hard for a rich man to enter in the kingdom of heaven, but all things are possible with God. God's Foreknowledge us such of the souls/spirits he created before the world ever became he can under his own counsel predestinate whom he elects. However, all of us are born in the flesh without knowledge of God is what his will and purpose is as far as we are concerned. Thus we are just as lost and dead in trespasses and sins as anybody. So it is the gospel we must learn and it is by Jesus' sacrifice we are saved. However in fulfilling Jesus' words, "Many are called but few are chosen". God determines who that "few"are by his own counsel. It is those "few" whom he had drawn, whom he has given the faith to believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus said that any coming to him must be drawn by the Father first. As anything is possible with God, there are times God knows of people who are honest and sincere. Who repent of their sins, who supplicate to God for His forgiveness and mercy. God made man in his image and he knew well that it would turn out many would feel it unnecessary to depend on God for anything. But God chooses those whom he knows that will concern themselves with God's will and purpose, his glory not their own. Read Romans 9, it tells about God loving Jacob and hating Esau, before they were born, before they'd ever sinned. I suppose you think that's not fair, nor upright of God to do. But Nathan, God said in answer to that that he will have mercy on whom he will and not on whom he will. Is that unfair? No! Because God knows all things, has planned all things, even planned for exigencies and even for unaccepting, unwilling mankind.It's like I think Dennis was saying, we live in the "now", God lives in the future. However we are destined to live, to die and do as God had planned in the past before we were given a body. Though it's possible for God to change that, let's take Hezekiah's extended life for example. There's been changes for a few all throughout history. Changes dealing with lifespan, salvation, etc. But God does all that on his own. You posted verses of Predestination where God hates Esau and love Jacob? that is NOT true. That was written AFTER Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of lintel. God does NOT choose so and so be SAVED/LOVED and so and so NOT to be SAVED/HATED before they were born.
God has a wonderful plan for each life, and He gives us opportunity to TRUST in Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit to plan out our lives according to His will. It's up to each of us to believe Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior or reject His Will. Just like the life of Paul the apostle.... He accepted God's will for his life and God opened up many wonderful experiences of Joy and pains and his life has become a great encouragement to billions lives through the centuries.
Paul wrote in I Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Jesus said in John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Post by Dennis J on Sept 4, 2018 23:27:01 GMT -5
Plus, as I recall, there was about one thousand years between the two God given statements quoted in Romans. People simply are not scholars, preferring to look on what they believe is the obvious.
DAJ
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 23:33:44 GMT -5
I'd appreciate it if you'd quit saying being predestined to live in hell. That IS NOT what the Bible or I'm saying Jesus told his followers that it was hard for a rich man to enter in the kingdom of heaven, but all things are possible with God. God's Foreknowledge us such of the souls/spirits he created before the world ever became he can under his own counsel predestinate whom he elects. However, all of us are born in the flesh without knowledge of God is what his will and purpose is as far as we are concerned. Thus we are just as lost and dead in trespasses and sins as anybody. So it is the gospel we must learn and it is by Jesus' sacrifice we are saved. However in fulfilling Jesus' words, "Many are called but few are chosen". God determines who that "few"are by his own counsel. It is those "few" whom he had drawn, whom he has given the faith to believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus said that any coming to him must be drawn by the Father first. As anything is possible with God, there are times God knows of people who are honest and sincere. Who repent of their sins, who supplicate to God for His forgiveness and mercy. God made man in his image and he knew well that it would turn out many would feel it unnecessary to depend on God for anything. But God chooses those whom he knows that will concern themselves with God's will and purpose, his glory not their own. Read Romans 9, it tells about God loving Jacob and hating Esau, before they were born, before they'd ever sinned. I suppose you think that's not fair, nor upright of God to do. But Nathan, God said in answer to that that he will have mercy on whom he will and not on whom he will. Is that unfair? No! Because God knows all things, has planned all things, even planned for exigencies and even for unaccepting, unwilling mankind.It's like I think Dennis was saying, we live in the "now", God lives in the future. However we are destined to live, to die and do as God had planned in the past before we were given a body. Though it's possible for God to change that, let's take Hezekiah's extended life for example. There's been changes for a few all throughout history. Changes dealing with lifespan, salvation, etc. But God does all that on his own. You posted verses of Predestination where God hates Esau and love Jacob? that is NOT true. That was written AFTER Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of lintel. God does NOT choose so and so be SAVED/LOVED and so and so NOT to be SAVED/HATED before they were born.
God has a wonderful plan for each life, and He gives us opportunity to TRUST in Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit to plan out our lives according to His will. It's up to each of us to believe Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior or reject His Will. Just like the life of Paul the apostle.... He accepted God's will for his life and God opened up many wonderful experiences of Joy and pains and his life has become a great encouragement to billions lives through the centuries.
Paul wrote in I Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Jesus said in John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Read Romans 9, Nathan. It definitely says when God hated Esau and loved Jacob. You have to read on in that chapter where it explains how God can do that.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 4, 2018 23:41:40 GMT -5
I'd appreciate it if you'd quit saying being predestined to live in hell. That IS NOT what the Bible or I'm saying Jesus told his followers that it was hard for a rich man to enter in the kingdom of heaven, but all things are possible with God. God's Foreknowledge us such of the souls/spirits he created before the world ever became he can under his own counsel predestinate whom he elects. However, all of us are born in the flesh without knowledge of God is what his will and purpose is as far as we are concerned. Thus we are just as lost and dead in trespasses and sins as anybody. So it is the gospel we must learn and it is by Jesus' sacrifice we are saved. However in fulfilling Jesus' words, "Many are called but few are chosen". God determines who that "few"are by his own counsel. It is those "few" whom he had drawn, whom he has given the faith to believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus said that any coming to him must be drawn by the Father first. As anything is possible with God, there are times God knows of people who are honest and sincere. Who repent of their sins, who supplicate to God for His forgiveness and mercy. God made man in his image and he knew well that it would turn out many would feel it unnecessary to depend on God for anything. But God chooses those whom he knows that will concern themselves with God's will and purpose, his glory not their own. Read Romans 9, it tells about God loving Jacob and hating Esau, before they were born, before they'd ever sinned. I suppose you think that's not fair, nor upright of God to do. But Nathan, God said in answer to that that he will have mercy on whom he will and not on whom he will. Is that unfair? No! Because God knows all things, has planned all things, even planned for exigencies and even for unaccepting, unwilling mankind.It's like I think Dennis was saying, we live in the "now", God lives in the future. However we are destined to live, to die and do as God had planned in the past before we were given a body. Though it's possible for God to change that, let's take Hezekiah's extended life for example. There's been changes for a few all throughout history. Changes dealing with lifespan, salvation, etc. But God does all that on his own. You posted verses of Predestination where God hates Esau and love Jacob? that is NOT true. That was written AFTER Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of lintel. God does NOT choose so and so be SAVED/LOVED and so and so NOT to be SAVED/HATED before they were born.
God has a wonderful plan for each life, and He gives us opportunity to TRUST in Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit to plan out our lives according to His will. It's up to each of us to believe Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior or reject His Will. Just like the life of Paul the apostle.... He accepted God's will for his life and God opened up many wonderful experiences of Joy and pains and his life has become a great encouragement to billions lives through the centuries.
Paul wrote in I Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Jesus said in John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Nathan, Romans is hard to understand. However it's speaking to the Jews in ROME ESP those who'd believe in Jesus. You must read chapter 9 before denying about God's actions regarding Jacob and Esau. You can't tell God what he can't do. That chapter tells why God loved Jacob and hated Esau. Also John 3:16 says "should not perish". And where you said God "Will", you know that not every person is into God's will. Some people profess to believe in Jesus but aren't saved. The Bible tells us the various reasons why. People not intent on God's will can profess Christianity all they want, but it'll do them little lasting good.
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Post by nathan on Sept 4, 2018 23:44:08 GMT -5
You posted verses of Predestination where God hates Esau and love Jacob? that is NOT true. That was written AFTER Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of lintel. God does NOT choose so and so be SAVED/LOVED and so and so NOT to be SAVED/HATED before they were born.
God has a wonderful plan for each life, and He gives us opportunity to TRUST in Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit to plan out our lives according to His will. It's up to each of us to believe Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior or reject His Will. Just like the life of Paul the apostle.... He accepted God's will for his life and God opened up many wonderful experiences of Joy and pains and his life has become a great encouragement to billions lives through the centuries.
Paul wrote in I Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Jesus said in John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Read Romans 9, Nathan. It definitely says when God hated Esau and loved Jacob. You have to read on in that chapter where it explains how God can do that. It seems to me God the Father is contradicting from the Son on Predestination... BUT I don't THINK So! They are ONE in Spirit, ONE in Unity and in Harmony! So, I believe it is men own interpretation on what it means Predestination like Once SAVED is Always SAVED doctrine is NOT from God.
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Post by Grant on Sept 5, 2018 5:16:59 GMT -5
Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe the there is no after life. Why? I can't understand why you would think that.
Why wouldn't someone want to give up those "frail and failing bodies" for a new wonderful "whole eternal body" as STR stated if one could believe that there is an "after life?"
As I said with your other similar post, -that just doesn't make any sense.It's makes sense the same as you saying people with frail and failing bodies want to think there is an afterlife/something better. To me a person is more likely to want it all to end at the grave and not live forever if they are frail, suffering or otherwise. Why does it make sense to you that they'd want to live forever in paradise but not that someone would just want it all to end. Period.
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