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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 14:58:54 GMT -5
Jesus said that few will find the straight and narrow way. He also sad that 'many' will try to enter by the broad gate. I do not know how few the few will be, or how many the many will be, but I suspect these things are relative.
Knowing how mansions work (theoretically of course) aren't the broad doors the main front doors where people are accepted and welcomed? And the narrow doors are usually in the back just off the staff quarters and kitchen? here are the verses hes trying to reference: Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 15:02:18 GMT -5
John saw them in heaven in white robes. Unnumerable as the sands if the sea but a mere drop in the bucket when numbered with the unsaved. I don't doubt you, but can you please reference this. It would be interesting to study a bit further. Forget it Shaz. Thanks. I found it. Revelations 7. It appears that this great multitude are those who turned to Christ and remained faithful through the great tribulation which is still to come and may not be far off? 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 15:05:10 GMT -5
Knowing how mansions work (theoretically of course) aren't the broad doors the main front doors where people are accepted and welcomed? And the narrow doors are usually in the back just off the staff quarters and kitchen? here are the verses hes trying to reference: Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Hey Walls, I made no attempt to try and reference the verses. Had I done so I would have made a far better job. Thanks anyway.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 15:43:46 GMT -5
Knowing how mansions work (theoretically of course) aren't the broad doors the main front doors where people are accepted and welcomed? And the narrow doors are usually in the back just off the staff quarters and kitchen? here are the verses hes trying to reference: Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. We are aware of where the reference comes from.
Problem with that idea is that if "god" is really a "god" of love," -as claimed by believers, -why does god allow only a "few" who will find that way?
People believe that THEY are the "few," -the elite, -those who will make the grade.
Anytime there is something of this kind, -it causes the believers to feel special and feeling special is one of the reasons for of being a believer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 15:47:01 GMT -5
here are the verses hes trying to reference: Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. We are aware of where the reference comes from.
Problem with that idea is that if "god" is really a "god" of love," -as claimed by believers, -why does god allow only a "few" who will find that way?
People believe that THEY are the "few," -the elite, -those who will make the grade.
Anytime there is something of this kind, -it causes the believers to feel special and feeling special is one of the reasons for of being a believer.
quality vs quanity is the best answer....
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Post by snow on Sept 3, 2018 15:55:00 GMT -5
We are aware of where the reference comes from.
Problem with that idea is that if "god" is really a "god" of love," -as claimed by believers, -why does god allow only a "few" who will find that way?
People believe that THEY are the "few," -the elite, -those who will make the grade.
Anytime there is something of this kind, -it causes the believers to feel special and feeling special is one of the reasons for of being a believer.
quality vs quanity is the best answer.... If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. And following up on that thought and the bet that God and Satan had regarding Job, it looks very much like Satan won. He got more people in his place than God got in his. If it was just a bet to see who could win the most souls, God truly lost. Makes more sense now why Satan left heaven with 1/3 of the angels. It was all planned. Heaven got boring so God and Lucifer made a bet just to liven things up. Okay, maybe I should take up writing fiction lol...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 16:02:54 GMT -5
quality vs quanity is the best answer.... If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people...
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 16:06:08 GMT -5
We are aware of where the reference comes from.
Problem with that idea is that if "god" is really a "god" of love," -as claimed by believers, -why does god allow only a "few" who will find that way?
People believe that THEY are the "few," -the elite, -those who will make the grade.
Anytime there is something of this kind, -it causes the believers to feel special and feeling special is one of the reasons for of being a believer.
quality vs quanity is the best answer.... Isn't it the idea of believers having a "higher" quality compared to other people that l makes them feel they are the elite, -"special" -from those other people?
Isn't it also that feeling that causes people to submit to the "suffering" they believe that they are going through? ("Suffering" often self-inflicted.)
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Post by snow on Sept 3, 2018 16:15:03 GMT -5
If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... Yes, that's a real big place for 75,000 people if you are believer that only 2x2's end up there. You don't, so that would be a more practical belief, that just maybe other denominations are loved by God too and therefore will likely have a chance of getting in too.
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Post by snow on Sept 3, 2018 16:16:57 GMT -5
quality vs quanity is the best answer.... Isn't it the idea of believers having a "higher" quality compared to other people that l makes them feel they are the elite, -"special" -from those other people?
Isn't it also that feeling that causes people to submit to the "suffering" they believe that they are going through? ("Suffering" often self-inflicted.)
That's the danger in believing you are one of the chosen. I believe that it was this belief that the Jews broadcasted to the world that got them in trouble so many times. The rest of the world didn't take kindly to their belief they were God's chosen and therefore were somehow better. Very sad how it has played out in history.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 16:19:27 GMT -5
If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... Poor John, -exiled and alone.
Is it any wonder that his view of life, death and everything else was so jaundiced?
Is it any wonder that John's revelations were so depressing? Also that they were so vengeful?
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Post by havejoy on Sept 3, 2018 17:22:38 GMT -5
Yes, I agree God wants to dwell in our hearts as His home. However, Jesus has establish in LUKE 22, where He and the 12 apostles came together to celebrate the Passover Lamb of God. They continue this type of Christ's Passover meals in the New Testament and to worship God the Father, singing hymns, given thanks to Jesus life, death and resurrection until He comes again.
We read in the New Testament in the scriptures the apostles and followers of Jesus gathered in the homes of believers (2-3, 10-20 people) to worship God on first day of the week/Sunday and have fellowship with one another to encourage each others to continue in the LORD, keep the fire of God's LOVE burning strong within our hearts. Acts 2:42-47 King James Version (KJV) 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. It seems the emblems (breakng bread) was partaken of regularly, perhaps even with every main meal, much like we do in saying grace before a meal. Also, we heard so helpfully at church on Sunday about that verse to. They went to the temple daily for prayer and encouragement and met in homes to break bread. it was both. I believe the communion can be taken anytime also. Its not something can only has to be taken on Sunday morning.
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 17:35:36 GMT -5
Misunderstanding and misinterpreting the scriptures. We went over and explained this portion of the scriptures in the past but people don't accept it. Christ/God Living in the body of a man, he had his limitation of knowing things. As a man Jesus couldn't appear and disappear as he wished like after he had received the Resurrection body.
Jesus said he doesn't know the time of his 2nd coming, no man or the angels either. ONLY the Father KNOWS when is for His time to return back on earth to rule and reign with His people. So, men should NOT try to predict the time, it is useless and hopeless, just be READY then it doesn't when He shows up.
Well then I'll just continue living life as I have. Trying to do no harm, loving and helping when I can. I can't say I believe in something I see no evidence for. That would make me a hypocrite. The Bible teaches in Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.By Faith We Understand things we CAN'T See or Understand. Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith at the Dawn of History 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.Faithful Abraham 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
The Heavenly Hope 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 17:38:42 GMT -5
i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... Poor John, -exiled and alone.
Is it any wonder that his view of life, death and everything else was so jaundiced?
Is it any wonder that John's revelations were so depressing? Also that they were so vengeful? there was a prison/mining camp on the island so he wouldn't have been entirely alone... i look on the book of revelation with both trepidation and joy...what greater joy than to know Jesus will return when the time is right and free us from this life and take us into the next one....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 17:43:07 GMT -5
If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... If you consider that there has been 108 billion people live on earth since it became inhabited, and only 100 million will get to Heaven, then your chances of getting a ticket are not good. The odds are 1:108,000. Think I will stick with Lotto.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 17:44:54 GMT -5
i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... If you consider that there has been 108 billion people live on earth since it became inhabited, and only 100 million will get to Heaven, then your chances of getting a ticket are not good. The odds are 1:108,000. Think I will stick with Lotto. wont stop me from trying to get there....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 17:49:08 GMT -5
Good luck with that Wally.
Wally, I wonder if the number of people who are going to heaven has been capped, or will it be adjusted as more people come and go on Earth.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 17:50:38 GMT -5
Good luck with that Wally. Wally, I wonder if the number of people who are going to heaven has been capped, or will it be adjusted as more people come and go on Earth. unknown really...
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 17:51:55 GMT -5
i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... If you consider that there has been 108 billion people live on earth since it became inhabited, and only 100 million will get to Heaven, then your chances of getting a ticket are not good. The odds are 1:108,000. Think I will stick with Lotto. God has been gathering believers from the 1st century to 21st century.... John the apostle saw a great multitude of believers that no man could count the numbers in heaven because for the last 2000 years God has been gathered and called people out of this sin and evil world. John said that was a lot of people, off course that is billions of believers or more. Wouldn't you say?
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 17:57:32 GMT -5
Good luck with that Wally. Wally, I wonder if the number of people who are going to heaven has been capped, or will it be adjusted as more people come and go on Earth. <iframe width="17.039999999999964" height="3.920000000000016" style="position: absolute; width: 17.039999999999964px; height: 3.920000000000016px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_83877201" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.039999999999964" height="3.920000000000016" style="position: absolute; width: 17.04px; height: 3.92px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 799px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_68679186" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.039999999999964" height="3.920000000000016" style="position: absolute; width: 17.04px; height: 3.92px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 136px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_41459701" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.039999999999964" height="3.920000000000016" style="position: absolute; width: 17.04px; height: 3.92px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 799px; top: 136px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_49088195" scrolling="no"></iframe> God has allowed MANY Gentiles and Jews to enter in heaven for the last 2000 yrs, but once the door of invitation is closed then that period is done. Just like Noah invited many people to come inside the ark when there was time to do so, but once God closed the Door of the Ark, then it was too late for anyone to get in. Rev. 11 speaking about God allowed the Jews to be scattered to all nations, and the Gentiles will rule over Jerusalem for a few thousand years.
During that time of Non-Jews ruling over Jerusalem God gives the Gentiles through out the earth the opportunity in hearing gospel of Salvation to accept Jesus as their Savior. When we see Jerusalem is given back to the Jews in control once again then we KNOW the End of the Gentiles era hearing of the gospel is coming to an end. Jerusalem became a nation once again in 1947.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 18:15:37 GMT -5
Then it even becomes more complicated. Is there only one Heaven for the whole Universe, or do other inhabited Planets have there own Heaven. A lot of unknowns as always.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 18:35:27 GMT -5
Then it even becomes more complicated. Is there only one Heaven for the whole Universe, or do other inhabited Planets have there own Heaven. A lot of unknowns as always. not sure why your poking the bear again, but there is only one heaven that were headed for or not...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 18:51:21 GMT -5
Wally I don't understand how you can be so definite about that, you are only relying on ideas out of somebodies mind, written in a book. So often Science is more up to date, and is actual fact.
I am not poking the bear, just that there are other points of view.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:07:25 GMT -5
John saw them in heaven in white robes. Unnumerable as the sands if the sea but a mere drop in the bucket when numbered with the unsaved. I don't doubt you, but can you please reference this. It would be interesting to study a bit further. Revelations 7:9-17
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Post by Grant on Sept 3, 2018 19:11:20 GMT -5
If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... Where does it say 100+ million in the Bible? I thought it was a multitude that no man can number?
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 19:12:56 GMT -5
Then it even becomes more complicated. Is there only one Heaven for the whole Universe, or do other inhabited Planets have there own Heaven. A lot of unknowns as always. There is ONLY ONE New earth and New heaven, ONE family of God in the Universe. The Godhead has created the humans in His own image to RULE and REIGN with them, Satan ruined that plan in the Garden of Eden, but Christ came down from heaven, lived in the human body Jesus to redeem us and gave us our RIGHTFUL place to RULE with Him during the 1000 yrs reign on earth and the Universe. God has created billions species/beings to populate Trillions galaxies in the Universe for billions of years. The New resurrected humans will HELP Christ/the King of kings to convert the trillions species out in the Universe to come under the banner of Christ's LOVE during the 1000 yrs reign.... They will come and join with the REST of God's Family!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:13:36 GMT -5
I don't doubt you, but can you please reference this. It would be interesting to study a bit further. Forget it Shaz. Thanks. I found it. Revelations 7. It appears that this great multitude are those who turned to Christ and remained faithful through the great tribulation which is still to come and may not be far off? 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. True it says that they came out of great tribulation, but it isn't necessarily "the great tribulation". These didn't all of them in seven or fourteen years get there , but from the beginning of time. A lot of Christ faithful people for some strange reasons suffer more tribulation in their everyday life then a lot of other people. Seems it has to do with being tried by fire
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Post by Grant on Sept 3, 2018 19:17:31 GMT -5
Where'd you get the idea that Christs faithful people suffer more than other people? I don't agree. People from all walks of life suffer. It's part of being human
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