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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 19:17:33 GMT -5
Poor John, -exiled and alone.
Is it any wonder that his view of life, death and everything else was so jaundiced?
Is it any wonder that John's revelations were so depressing? Also that they were so vengeful? there was a prison/mining camp on the island so he wouldn't have been entirely alone... i look on the book of revelation with both trepidation and joy...what greater joy than to know Jesus will return when the time is right and free us from this life and take us into the next one.... Yes, I have heard that as well.
But would John have had much to do with other prisoners?
Isn't the idea that someone will free us from this life the reason why people believe in some kind of after life?
Certainly that idea would have been a great reason in the mind of John since he was a prisoner and not sure what was going to happen to him.
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Post by Grant on Sept 3, 2018 19:20:31 GMT -5
Isn't the idea that they will be free from this life a reason people want to believe there is nothing beyond this life.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:24:06 GMT -5
God has set his elects and their salvation before the world ever began. He also has set each ones time to be in earth so that he'll have his presence across the earth at all times. Can you explain this a bit further Shaz, perhaps even a reference of two? Romans 8 & 9. Ephesians 1:4-5, 11. Romans 11:2. I Thessalonians 2:13-14. I Peter 1:2. Acts 2:23. Romans 9:10-. Tells God loved Jacob and hated Esau before they were born. This is his foreknowledge, . Vs. 11 speaks about God's purpose according to election...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:26:44 GMT -5
Where'd you get the idea that Christs faithful people suffer more than other people? I don't agree. People from all walks of life suffer. It's part of being human They suffer bearing their cross as well as any of life s trials and mishaps. Whereas other may suffer troubles in the flesh they have no knowledge about bearing their cross
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:30:13 GMT -5
there was a prison/mining camp on the island so he wouldn't have been entirely alone... i look on the book of revelation with both trepidation and joy...what greater joy than to know Jesus will return when the time is right and free us from this life and take us into the next one.... Yes, I have heard that as well.
But would John have had much to do with other prisoners?
Isn't the idea that someone will free us from this life the reason why people believe in some kind of after life?
Certainly that idea would have been a great reason in the mind of John since he was a prisoner and not sure what was going to happen to him.It seems to me, that John appreciated his time in Patmos. Being alone seemed to put him in the right spirit to receive information from the Lord.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:33:48 GMT -5
i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... Where does it say 100+ million in the Bible? I thought it was a multitude that no man can number? I read the other day it is a third will be saved. A third of all generations. That's quite a number, isn't it? Do we have any idea to how many people have passed over the Earth's crust in all the eons/eras etc?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 19:38:14 GMT -5
Isn't the idea that they will be free from this life a reason people want to believe there is nothing beyond this life. How does that make any sense?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:38:21 GMT -5
If you consider that there has been 108 billion people live on earth since it became inhabited, and only 100 million will get to Heaven, then your chances of getting a ticket are not good. The odds are 1:108,000. Think I will stick with Lotto. God has been gathering believers from the 1st century to 21st century.... John the apostle saw a great multitude of believers that no man could count the numbers in heaven because for the last 2000 years God has been gathered and called people out of this sin and evil world. John said that was a lot of people, off course that is billions of believers or more. Wouldn't you say?
I read the other day in the Bible that a third of all people will be saved. God has already determined who and when, so it seems. I can't find that that I'd read.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 19:41:18 GMT -5
Isn't the idea that they will be free from this life a reason people want to believe there is nothing beyond this life. I always thought it differently...Paul said for him to die is gain(for him). It seems being released from Earth's demands and frail and failing bodies would be quite welcome. Also to be united with a whole eternal body would sure be great peace.
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 19:43:38 GMT -5
God has been gathering believers from the 1st century to 21st century.... John the apostle saw a great multitude of believers that no man could count the numbers in heaven because for the last 2000 years God has been gathered and called people out of this sin and evil world. John said that was a lot of people, off course that is billions of believers or more. Wouldn't you say?
I read the other day in the Bible that a third of all people will be saved. God has already determined who and when, so it seems. I can't find that that I'd read. God had predetermined and WANT to have ONE BIG HAPPY HAPPY in the Universe before the foundation of the Universe. God did NOT say so and so will be SAVED and so and so will be damned. God gives the people the freewill to choose! whether they want to be with Him for eternity or spending their eternity without God.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 20:40:04 GMT -5
Where does it say 100+ million in the Bible? I thought it was a multitude that no man can number? I read the other day it is a third will be saved. A third of all generations. That's quite a number, isn't it? Do we have any idea to how many people have passed over the Earth's crust in all the eons/eras etc? 108 billion, that includes 7.4 billion on Earth at present, and of course a lot more still to come.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 20:47:41 GMT -5
i don't believe only 2x2's are going to heaven there will be others from other denominations they will be few also though...Revelation says a number equal to 100+ MILLION will be around the throne...then we have to consider the city too it is suppose to be about 1500 miles wide, long and high, thats a very big place just for 75,000 people... Where does it say 100+ million in the Bible? I thought it was a multitude that no man can number? Rev_5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 10,000 x 10,000 = 100 MILLION...
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Post by Grant on Sept 3, 2018 21:09:25 GMT -5
And what about the thousands of thousands? Seems like infinity to me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 21:28:11 GMT -5
Revelation 5:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
That would seem to indicate there were beasts there as well. There is some hope for me after all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 21:39:27 GMT -5
There was that movie made Revelation 1999. Worth watching if you have a couple of hours to spare. youtu.be/yO-eJYapmlE
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 22:33:44 GMT -5
Revelation 5:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; That would seem to indicate there were beasts there as well. There is some hope for me after all. depends if your a beast that is willing to do this: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 3, 2018 22:37:39 GMT -5
I read the other day in the Bible that a third of all people will be saved. God has already determined who and when, so it seems. I can't find that that I'd read. God had predetermined and WANT to have ONE BIG HAPPY HAPPY in the Universe before the foundation of the Universe. God did NOT say so and so will be SAVED and so and so will be damned. God gives the people the freewill to choose! whether they want to be with Him for eternity or spending their eternity without God.Jesus said God would have to "draw" people before they would be ready to come to Jesus. God also is the one who gives the faith to believe on Jesus Christ, it is the Father AND the Son who give the Holy Spirit to people. Doesn't sound much like people have a whole lot of choices. God had planned, blue printed the earth and universe, the angels, the number of souls he created. Some people say that before the world ever became that God had already created all the souls of humanity, though only sending just some at a time to earth into human body. He foreknew whom he'd created and he Foreknew when he'd send them to live in the earth. He Foreknew whim he could use for various conditions, etc. God has not played it half handed, he knew and still knows what his will and purpose is for everyone and everything.
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 22:58:02 GMT -5
God had predetermined and WANT to have ONE BIG HAPPY HAPPY in the Universe before the foundation of the Universe. God did NOT say so and so will be SAVED and so and so will be damned. God gives the people the freewill to choose! whether they want to be with Him for eternity or spending their eternity without God. Jesus said God would have to "draw" people before they would be ready to come to Jesus. God also is the one who gives the faith to believe on Jesus Christ, it is the Father AND the Son who give the Holy Spirit to people. Doesn't sound much like people have a whole lot of choices. God had planned, blue printed the earth and universe, the angels, the number of souls he created. Some people say that before the world ever became that God had already created all the souls of humanity, though only sending just some at a time to earth into human body. He foreknew whom he'd created and he Foreknew when he'd send them to live in the earth. He Foreknew whim he could use for various conditions, etc. God has not played it half handed, he knew and still knows what his will and purpose is for everyone and everything. God and the Holy Spirit draw people come to Christ, and each has to say, "I want Jesus Christ to be MY Savior, who has REDEEMED my sins, with His own precious blood of the Lamb of God."
That was one of the MAIN reasons, Christ came down from heaven and died the horrible death on Calvary's= the Second death. If God had known so and so already SAVED before they were born, then the death of Jesus on Calvary's Cross was a horrible plan from God the Father wanting to SEE His own begotten Son SUFFERED in great pain naturally and spiritually separated from Him forever! WHAT kind of a horrible father would do that to His own begotten Son?
Your own interpretation of Predestination, so and so were SAVED, and so and so are already DAMMED to HELL before they were born, he or she has NO Chance to choose! to have Christ as their SAVIOR, it doesn't make sense or that is a BAD plan from God the Father in my book.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 22:59:41 GMT -5
God had predetermined and WANT to have ONE BIG HAPPY HAPPY in the Universe before the foundation of the Universe. God did NOT say so and so will be SAVED and so and so will be damned. God gives the people the freewill to choose! whether they want to be with Him for eternity or spending their eternity without God. Jesus said God would have to "draw" people before they would be ready to come to Jesus. God also is the one who gives the faith to believe on Jesus Christ, it is the Father AND the Son who give the Holy Spirit to people. Doesn't sound much like people have a whole lot of choices. God had planned, blue printed the earth and universe, the angels, the number of souls he created. Some people say that before the world ever became that God had already created all the souls of humanity, though only sending just some at a time to earth into human body. He foreknew whom he'd created and he Foreknew when he'd send them to live in the earth. He Foreknew whim he could use for various conditions, etc. God has not played it half handed, he knew and still knows what his will and purpose is for everyone and everything. still don't believe in that predestination stuff. sounds too much like a rigged game. who would want to serve a God that did that....
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 23:25:16 GMT -5
Isn't the idea that they will be free from this life a reason people want to believe there is nothing beyond this life. I always thought it differently...Paul said for him to die is gain(for him). It seems being released from Earth's demands and frail and failing bodies would be quite welcome. Also to be united with a whole eternal body would sure be great peace. Well isn't "frail and failing bodies" just another reason that people want to believe in an "after life?"
Isn't that just more evidence that human nature tends to want to believe in something because it is "comforting," -whether there is any evidence or not?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 23:54:23 GMT -5
Wally's post: Depends if your a beast that is willing to do this: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. No Wally, never been good at remembering lines, plus it's day and night and I prefer sleeping at night.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2018 0:12:56 GMT -5
These are two more reasons that people want to believe in a "after life."
Life often throws us curve balls and just as often there is not much that we can do about them.
It is human to try & figure out a way around them and believing in an after life is one way even if there is no evidence for one.
Revelation 7:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 0:44:48 GMT -5
A show like that, is a bit different to Church in the home.
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Post by Grant on Sept 4, 2018 0:45:48 GMT -5
I always thought it differently...Paul said for him to die is gain(for him). It seems being released from Earth's demands and frail and failing bodies would be quite welcome. Also to be united with a whole eternal body would sure be great peace. Well isn't "frail and failing bodies" just another reason that people want to believe in an "after life?"
Isn't that just more evidence that human nature tends to want to believe in something because it is "comforting," -whether there is any evidence or not? Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe that there is no after life.
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Post by Dennis J on Sept 4, 2018 1:26:31 GMT -5
It is just one more reason I DO believe in an afterlife. My God is weaning me from wanting to live in this life forever. Every day is a reminder to me of death burial and resurrection, though I know and recognize it is not so for many others. So many in this forum remind me of one who encouraged her husband to just curse God and die.
Gonna die, not gonna curse God. What He allows, I both WILL, and CAN endure. Besides, there are many in this life worse off than I am, which I am reminded of with every visit to the VA facility.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 2:02:52 GMT -5
quality vs quanity is the best answer.... If there are only about 75,000 2x2's worldwide right now, (taken from a recent posting, I have no idea how many there really are), and the Truth members are the only ones that are going to heaven, heaven is going to be a very empty place. They are going to have to remake some of those mansions into torture chambers to catch the over flow from hell. And following up on that thought and the bet that God and Satan had regarding Job, it looks very much like Satan won. He got more people in his place than God got in his. If it was just a bet to see who could win the most souls, God truly lost. Makes more sense now why Satan left heaven with 1/3 of the angels. It was all planned. Heaven got boring so God and Lucifer made a bet just to liven things up. Okay, maybe I should take up writing fiction lol... Sounds like the extra mansions will be a 'final solution' of sorts.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 2:06:23 GMT -5
Then it even becomes more complicated. Is there only one Heaven for the whole Universe, or do other inhabited Planets have there own Heaven. A lot of unknowns as always. an odd thing innit? The more unknowns, the more people are steadfastly certain. The more knowns, the more we become "plagued with doubt" (to misquote Russell, but I think he'd agree nonetheless)
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2018 2:07:11 GMT -5
Well isn't "frail and failing bodies" just another reason that people want to believe in an "after life?"
Isn't that just more evidence that human nature tends to want to believe in something because it is "comforting," -whether there is any evidence or not? Isn't frail and failing bodies just another reason that people want to believe the there is no after life. Why? I can't understand why you would think that.
Why wouldn't someone want to give up those "frail and failing bodies" for a new wonderful "whole eternal body" as STR stated if one could believe that there is an "after life?"
As I said with your other similar post, -that just doesn't make any sense.
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