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Post by Gene on Oct 24, 2017 17:32:30 GMT -5
An American 2x2 couple were visiting Italy. The night before Special Meeting, the Workers invited them to have dinner at the home where the Meeting would be held. Two American Workers were there, Virginia Mitchelleti and Nick Enreitta, five other Workers, some other Friends, making about 14 altogether at the dinner table, upon which sat about seven bottles of wine. "After the blessing, Nick started pouring everyone a glass of wine. As we were going for the third refill, Virginia said to my wife, 'When we have visitors here from the states, I try to be careful not to drink too much in front of them.' Now, that was very considerate of her! When dinner was over, we visited awhile and then we went to bed. I said to my wife, 'Do they have a different God and a different heaven over here than we have back in the states?' They had a huge house and about 30 people came for the Special Meeting in their living room. They called us into the dining room to eat lunch buffet style and on the table stood about 15 bottles of wine. Now, that was something to behold!" (Tom and Geraldine Schroeder). What a very odd comment by that fellow. Most people would start to be mentally affected by the third glass of wine. It was wise not to continue into "excess". Even better would be to leave the decision to individuals -- not to pour without asking. Strictly speaking, the third refill would be the fourth glass
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Post by Gene on Oct 24, 2017 17:46:14 GMT -5
The late bro worker, Lloyd Wilson, who mainly preached in Southern USA, agreed with walking out of meetings with a mere greeting and handshake and going home. Afraid the spirit would be lost or scared off with too much visiting. Once after a Sunday a.m. meeting in Longview, TX, people were visiting as was our norm in Texas, and he spoke up loudly, and said, well, if yall won't go home, then let's sit down and sing another song, and he herded everyone back into their seats, and called out a song and we sang a song or two; and then we got up and walked out solemnly, looking at each other quizzically behind Lloyd's back. Gene - Were you there? or were you at meetings where he did the same? Any comments? What the reason Lloyd gave for doing this? However, it didn't stop the visiting when Lloyd wasn't in our particular meeting. He also upset some Oklahoma Friends when he newly came to their field and stopped some get togethers/potlucks--around 1987-8. Hi Cherie, No, I don't think I was there that day, and I don't recall being in any meetings where that happened. I'd be speculating if I were to comment on the reason. So, to speculate, it was probably that if a bunch of friends are going to hang around after the meeting, they may as well do something constructive, like sing a hymn. He did have a sense of humor -- I can distinctly see his broad smile and hear his "hee-hee-hee" laugh in my memory.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Oct 24, 2017 19:43:01 GMT -5
What a very odd comment by that fellow. Most people would start to be mentally affected by the third glass of wine. It was wise not to continue into "excess". Even better would be to leave the decision to individuals -- not to pour without asking. Strictly speaking, the third refill would be the fourth glass Good point! Indeed, most people would be feeling the effects by then.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 24, 2017 20:46:58 GMT -5
We've written on some of this before and you most certainly don't agree with me as I write from a Christian perspective. Some of what Get off of TMB listed above can reasonably be called worldly: most movies, Netflix, etc., wearing shorts, wearing makeup, school sports, and wearing of what is typically worn at beaches. If these are "accepted" (right or wrong), that is certainly due to influence from the world. I realize you do not see a problem in that. Some are more clearly worldly or more clearly sinful than others. Okay so I have mis-understood what you meant here calleduntoliberty "Some of what Get off of TMB listed above can reasonably be called worldly: most movies, Netflix, etc.," ? Maybe you could clarify ? calleduntoliberty, in light of this, what is your view on the contraceptive pill ? Is it "worldly" ?
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Oct 24, 2017 21:13:59 GMT -5
Okay so I have mis-understood what you meant here calleduntoliberty "Some of what Get off of TMB listed above can reasonably be called worldly: most movies, Netflix, etc.," ? Maybe you could clarify ? calleduntoliberty , in light of this, what is your view on the contraceptive pill ? Is it "worldly" ? The hormones involved have more than one action. The primary action is to prevent ovulation. However, that is not 100% guaranteed. If ovulation occurs, fertilization is possible and a new human life begins. The other hormonal effects can cause the death of the newly begun human life by preventing implantation.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 24, 2017 21:33:38 GMT -5
calleduntoliberty , in light of this, what is your view on the contraceptive pill ? Is it "worldly" ? The hormones involved have more than one action. The primary action is to prevent ovulation. However, that is not 100% guaranteed. If ovulation occurs, fertilization is possible and a new human life begins. The other hormonal effects can cause the death of the newly begun human life by preventing implantation. Thank you for your response calleduntoliberty, what I was meaning was what is your opinion on "professing girls" being on the pill ? Do you see it as "worldly" ?
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Post by ellie on Oct 24, 2017 22:13:56 GMT -5
calleduntoliberty, that maybe the case now, but that was NOT the case 20 years ago. Also there are still people who do "frown upon" girls going to University. We are talking about females here not males. Australia seems to be lagging behind the rest of the 2x2 world. Many friends do not live near universities. It's possible some of the rural friends don't feel comfortable with their 17-18 year olds moving to a city for study because of the influences there. Also the city friends have a reputation for being less "lagging". A distance education or regional university degree wouldn't raise too many eyebrows. Re women, some workers and possibly older folk see women focused on keeping a home ready for a worker bed and breakfast or meetings as the holy grail. If the education or career don't intrude on that then that's probably fine.
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Post by ellie on Oct 24, 2017 22:15:34 GMT -5
calleduntoliberty , in light of this, what is your view on the contraceptive pill ? Is it "worldly" ? The hormones involved have more than one action. The primary action is to prevent ovulation. However, that is not 100% guaranteed. If ovulation occurs, fertilization is possible and a new human life begins. The other hormonal effects can cause the death of the newly begun human life by preventing implantation. Coitus without any contraception would result in more fertilised eggs failing to implant than intercourse while taking a combined estrogen and progesterone pill. Someone wanting to prevent the demise of a zygote should never try to conceive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 23:42:23 GMT -5
The hormones involved have more than one action. The primary action is to prevent ovulation. However, that is not 100% guaranteed. If ovulation occurs, fertilization is possible and a new human life begins. The other hormonal effects can cause the death of the newly begun human life by preventing implantation. Coitus without any contraception would result in more fertilised eggs failing to implant than intercourse while taking a combined estrogen and progesterone pill. Someone wanting to prevent the demise of a zygote should never try to conceive. ummm while having intercourse doesn't guarantee a child taking the pill has a pretty high percentage of preventing one
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 25, 2017 0:35:42 GMT -5
Coitus without any contraception would result in more fertilised eggs failing to implant than intercourse while taking a combined estrogen and progesterone pill. Someone wanting to prevent the demise of a zygote should never try to conceive. ummm while having intercourse doesn't guarantee a child taking the pill has a pretty high percentage of preventing one So do you think professing girls taking the pill should be looked at as "worldly" @wally ?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 25, 2017 3:02:06 GMT -5
I have never heard it mentioned in NZ Roselyn. We certainly did not ask for any worker guidance on the matter and they would have got told to mind their own if they did offer any.
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Post by ellie on Oct 25, 2017 5:42:38 GMT -5
Coitus without any contraception would result in more fertilised eggs failing to implant than intercourse while taking a combined estrogen and progesterone pill. Someone wanting to prevent the demise of a zygote should never try to conceive. ummm while having intercourse doesn't guarantee a child taking the pill has a pretty high percentage of preventing one Yes, the combined pill is quite successful at preventing ovulation. Fertile people engaging in contraceptive free coitus, however, results in fertilised ova. A high percentage of the resulting zygotes fail to successfully implant. In other words lots of dead zygotes. If the concept of dead zygotes upsets someone they'd have more peace of mind consuming the combined pill than having contraceptive free sex.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Oct 25, 2017 10:01:19 GMT -5
Australia seems to be lagging behind the rest of the 2x2 world. Many friends do not live near universities. It's possible some of the rural friends don't feel comfortable with their 17-18 year olds moving to a city for study because of the influences there. Also the city friends have a reputation for being less "lagging". A distance education or regional university degree wouldn't raise too many eyebrows. Re women, some workers and possibly older folk see women focused on keeping a home ready for a worker bed and breakfast or meetings as the holy grail. If the education or career don't intrude on that then that's probably fine. Are all the Australian universities in big cities?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 11:58:47 GMT -5
ummm while having intercourse doesn't guarantee a child taking the pill has a pretty high percentage of preventing one So do you think professing girls taking the pill should be looked at as "worldly" @wally ? never said anything of the sort...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 12:00:48 GMT -5
ummm while having intercourse doesn't guarantee a child taking the pill has a pretty high percentage of preventing one Yes, the combined pill is quite successful at preventing ovulation. Fertile people engaging in contraceptive free coitus, however, results in fertilised ova. A high percentage of the resulting zygotes fail to successfully implant. In other words lots of dead zygotes. If the concept of dead zygotes upsets someone they'd have more peace of mind consuming the combined pill than having contraceptive free sex. i think a natural death is more preferable than a forced prevention to most people...
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Post by snow on Oct 25, 2017 17:23:34 GMT -5
Strictly speaking, the third refill would be the fourth glass Good point! Indeed, most people would be feeling the effects by then. LOL I know I'd be a tad tipsy.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 25, 2017 17:36:33 GMT -5
So do you think professing girls taking the pill should be looked at as "worldly" @wally ? never said anything of the sort... Did I say you did @wally ? I was just asking your opinion !
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 25, 2017 17:39:45 GMT -5
I have never heard it mentioned in NZ Roselyn. We certainly did not ask for any worker guidance on the matter and they would have got told to mind their own if they did offer any. In the 80's it was not the "done thing" for young girls (18+) to be on the pill in certain areas in Australia. Just to clarify (thanks Gene) this was for unmarried girls.
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Post by Gene on Oct 25, 2017 19:00:14 GMT -5
I have never heard it mentioned in NZ Roselyn. We certainly did not ask for any worker guidance on the matter and they would have got told to mind their own if they did offer any. In the 80's it was not the "done thing" for young girls (18+) to be on the pill in certain areas in Australia. If I may be so bold as to ask for clarification, was the restriction specific to unmarried young girls, or young girls regardless of marital status?
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Oct 25, 2017 20:59:50 GMT -5
The hormones involved have more than one action. The primary action is to prevent ovulation. However, that is not 100% guaranteed. If ovulation occurs, fertilization is possible and a new human life begins. The other hormonal effects can cause the death of the newly begun human life by preventing implantation. Coitus without any contraception would result in more fertilised eggs failing to implant than intercourse while taking a combined estrogen and progesterone pill. Someone wanting to prevent the demise of a zygote should never try to conceive. Direct causation is an important factor in moral and ethical concerns.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Oct 25, 2017 21:27:47 GMT -5
The hormones involved have more than one action. The primary action is to prevent ovulation. However, that is not 100% guaranteed. If ovulation occurs, fertilization is possible and a new human life begins. The other hormonal effects can cause the death of the newly begun human life by preventing implantation. Thank you for your response calleduntoliberty , what I was meaning was what is your opinion on "professing girls" being on the pill ? Do you see it as "worldly" ? My opinion is that they and their husbands should consider the biological effects of the drug along with any other relevant factors.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 25, 2017 23:20:48 GMT -5
In the 80's it was not the "done thing" for young girls (18+) to be on the pill in certain areas in Australia. If I may be so bold as to ask for clarification, was the restriction specific to unmarried young girls, or young girls regardless of marital status? Sorry Gene I should have clarified that ! It was to unmarried girls !
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Post by emy on Oct 25, 2017 23:42:13 GMT -5
If I may be so bold as to ask for clarification, was the restriction specific to unmarried young girls, or young girls regardless of marital status? Sorry Gene I should have clarified that ! It was to unmarried girls ! What was the source of the restriction? Who would ever know except possibly a girl's parents? I believe there was a time in this country when an underage girl had to have parent consent.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 26, 2017 0:35:15 GMT -5
Thank you for your response calleduntoliberty , what I was meaning was what is your opinion on "professing girls" being on the pill ? Do you see it as "worldly" ? My opinion is that they and their husbands should consider the biological effects of the drug along with any other relevant factors. What are those effects?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 26, 2017 0:36:28 GMT -5
18 would not be underage. IN NZ the age of consent is 16 and I think it is the same in OZ. An Ozzy may correct or confirm this.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 26, 2017 0:50:23 GMT -5
Sorry Gene I should have clarified that ! It was to unmarried girls ! What was the source of the restriction? Who would ever know except possibly a girl's parents? I believe there was a time in this country when an underage girl had to have parent consent. It was talked about amongst parents who didn't want their daughters having sex before marriage. It would have come from an older "lady worker". Yes the age of consent now is 16 curlywurlysammagee
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 26, 2017 1:18:53 GMT -5
Thank you for your response calleduntoliberty , what I was meaning was what is your opinion on "professing girls" being on the pill ? Do you see it as "worldly" ? My opinion is that they and their husbands should consider the biological effects of the drug along with any other relevant factors. Maybe they DO think about the "biological effects" of NOT TAKING it as well as taking it!
And that is why they choose to take it.
Whichever they choose -it is their right to choose, no ours.
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Post by ellie on Oct 26, 2017 1:57:10 GMT -5
Coitus without any contraception would result in more fertilised eggs failing to implant than intercourse while taking a combined estrogen and progesterone pill. Someone wanting to prevent the demise of a zygote should never try to conceive. Direct causation is an important factor in moral and ethical concerns. I suppose some people might think of the potential dead zygotes should they have unprotected sexual intercourse.
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