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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 14:20:59 GMT -5
'Nuf, you opined:
It is you who continually says that what people believe is from satan ram but what you believe is revealed to you from God.
At least "three" times in very recent days I have posted similar to the below statement in my posts. I don't want anyone to just accept what I say, but would rather they sought it out for themselves! Now that IS divining!
Always trust in God rather than have confidence in man AND that includes me, all the more particularly so since I have challenged your post. Take the matter up sincerely with God, make yourself approved of him and carry out a study of these things and in time God will provide you with a beautiful sure revelation on these matter!
Did you listen to my plea or did you just ignore it before you responded?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 5:43:56 GMT -5
Ross, before we can debate we must agree on an understanding of what "divinity" actually is. This is the root of it all. For centuries the mainstream Churchianity has utilsed the word "divine" without knowing what it really means. It's like the trinity. Most mainstream Christians believe in the trinity until you explain what it actually means and then many step back from it.
In my posts I have been pointing "solely" to what the Bible says, what God says and what Jesus says. I would like to be challenged on these points and my understanding of them, NOT what the masses have come to understand, mainly through indoctrination. It's in the Word of God that I stand, not in the understanding of man.
I get the impression that you think that I am a supporter of the 2x2 sect. If so, this is erroneous. Out of fairness and an unbiased approach, I will readily support what I think is right about their beliefs and practices, BUT I will also readily point our where I think they do err. I have done it for years on many issues. Lately I just can't be bothered as I have burnt myself out with things like CSA, spiritual abuse etc. I am not interested in what any particular church believes anymore. I am solely interested in the Truth, not Meetings, the Baps, the Church of Scotland, the Zeph Wits, Delphs, or any of them.
Yes, I did believe in Jesus' pre-existence whilst a member of the 2 x 2's, but then who didn't. You believed what everyone else believed, just like in many other denominations and sects, you are indoctrinated by and believe the people "who know better than you." As for the question of the pre-existence of Jesus, there are many helpful sources out there to assist people in their search for truth. It took me a long time but I got there. A beautiful journey it was too. The same goes for the so-called divinity of Jesus. There are many out there who have concluded Jesus to be just a human being through whom God works. Once the penny starts to drop it is an amazing, simple, clear picture.
People need to do a "proper" study on what type of worship that Christ received. It's all out there. I know in the past "context" hasn't been your thing, but I would contend it is extremely important in our search for proper truth and understanding. My worship is to God through Jesus Christ. My prayer life and worship is directly to God through my belief in his only begotten Son whom I have faith in being my mediator with God the Father.
I don't want anyone to take for granted anything that I say. I want people to THINK and to be like the faithful Bereans, to make themselves approved of God and to seek him diligently, searching the scriptures daily And if they ultimately find me to be wrong, then to raise the matter with me and we can look at the issues. I want to be right. There is an enormous amount of spiritual deception in the world and we must be very careful. I know you believe in the trinity. You know how BIG that belief is in Christendom. Now,be hypothetical for a moment. Should that belief be wrong, then it is very wrong and the devil has superimposed Christianity with a false god and a false Christ. Everything that emanates down from that belief, no matter how good it is, or sound it seems, is a corruption.
You do make a point about my attitude towards theologians and yes I am over assertive on that issue (and perhaps in other matters too?), simply because I generalise. There are and will be exceptions to the rule and yes most theologians are helpful in many ways, but generally speaking their beliefs contain some falsehoods which we are likely to be swallowed with the sound stuff. I appreciate that I am guilty of condemning theologians, where I should be "warning" about them. It is no different from warning someone about to partake of a glass of pure water to which a drop or two of contaminant has been added.
On the subject of 'nuf. He has several times attacked me personally in response to beliefs that I have posted, yet when asked to give his beliefs and understanding on these same subjects for comparison and debate, he either ignores my requests or prevaricates like a guilty man facing capital punishment. He loves to attack but cannot defend. Also, he chased away my best pal Virgs. 'Nuf said about 'nuf.
I state my beliefs and use scripture to support these beliefs. I only ask that people put aside all other influences and search out the various beliefs I present with an open and honest mind and with a willingness to learn. I know that is a very tough request, particularly with many in the christian World. I learn from challenges. I change course. I hopefully go deeper into truth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 4:11:24 GMT -5
Ross, before we can debate we must agree on an understanding of what "divinity" actually is. This is the root of it all. For centuries the mainstream Churchianity has utilsed the word "divine" without knowing what it really means. It's like the trinity. Most mainstream Christians believe in the trinity until you explain what it actually means and then many step back from it. In my posts I have been pointing "solely" to what the Bible says, what God says and what Jesus says. I would like to be challenged on these points and my understanding of them, NOT what the masses have come to understand, mainly through indoctrination. It's in the Word of God that I stand, not in the understanding of man. I get the impression that you think that I am a supporter of the 2x2 sect. If so, this is erroneous. Out of fairness and an unbiased approach, I will readily support what I think is right about their beliefs and practices, BUT I will also readily point our where I think they do err. I have done it for years on many issues. Lately I just can't be bothered as I have burnt myself out with things like CSA, spiritual abuse etc. I am not interested in what any particular church believes anymore. I am solely interested in the Truth, not Meetings, the Baps, the Church of Scotland, the Zeph Wits, Delphs, or any of them. Yes, I did believe in Jesus' pre-existence whilst a member of the 2 x 2's, but then who didn't. You believed what everyone else believed, just like in many other denominations and sects, you are indoctrinated by and believe the people "who know better than you." As for the question of the pre-existence of Jesus, there are many helpful sources out there to assist people in their search for truth. It took me a long time but I got there. A beautiful journey it was too. The same goes for the so-called divinity of Jesus. There are many out there who have concluded Jesus to be just a human being through whom God works. Once the penny starts to drop it is an amazing, simple, clear picture. People need to do a "proper" study on what type of worship that Christ received. It's all out there. I know in the past "context" hasn't been your thing, but I would contend it is extremely important in our search for proper truth and understanding. My worship is to God through Jesus Christ. My prayer life and worship is directly to God through my belief in his only begotten Son whom I have faith in being my mediator with God the Father. I don't want anyone to take for granted anything that I say. I want people to THINK and to be like the faithful Bereans, to make themselves approved of God and to seek him diligently, searching the scriptures daily And if they ultimately find me to be wrong, then to raise the matter with me and we can look at the issues. I want to be right. There is an enormous amount of spiritual deception in the world and we must be very careful. I know you believe in the trinity. You know how BIG that belief is in Christendom. Now,be hypothetical for a moment. Should that belief be wrong, then it is very wrong and the devil has superimposed Christianity with a false god and a false Christ. Everything that emanates down from that belief, no matter how good it is, or sound it seems, is a corruption. You do make a point about my attitude towards theologians and yes I am over assertive on that issue (and perhaps in other matters too?), simply because I generalise. There are and will be exceptions to the rule and yes most theologians are helpful in many ways, but generally speaking their beliefs contain some falsehoods which we are likely to be swallowed with the sound stuff. I appreciate that I am guilty of condemning theologians, where I should be "warning" about them. It is no different from warning someone about to partake of a glass of pure water to which a drop or two of contaminant has been added. On the subject of 'nuf. He has several times attacked me personally in response to beliefs that I have posted, yet when asked to give his beliefs and understanding on these same subjects for comparison and debate, he either ignores my requests or prevaricates like a guilty man facing capital punishment. He loves to attack but cannot defend. Also, he chased away my best pal Virgs. 'Nuf said about 'nuf. I state my beliefs and use scripture to support these beliefs. I only ask that people put aside all other influences and search out the various beliefs I present with an open and honest mind and with a willingness to learn. I know that is a very tough request, particularly with many in the christian World. I learn from challenges. I change course. I hopefully go deeper into truth. Thanks for you note. We have had the privilege of amazing Bible teaching and study, across a range of settings, with Christians from all walks of life, since leaving the 2x2's. It's been a great privilege and experience and I have a much deeper faith as a result. It's also been a privilege to see people live their faith and witness the work that the Holy Spirit is doing in changing lives. I never thought a lot in detail about Jesus when I was in the 2x2's. I think in general that I did accept that God was Father, Son and Holy Spirit - I was baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I had never heard much about the word Trinity, didn't know what it was and rejected it as Catholic doctrine. A few years before I left the 2x2's I started to work through 2 key questions - who was Jesus, what did He come to do - two of the most important questions that any human being can ask. A substantial part of the Bible didn't make sense if I treated Jesus as just a man, a good person who was like a puppet on a set of strings. Jesus was and is much more than that. I firmly believe, based on a plain reading of the Bible, that sin was dealt with completely and eternally within the Godhead. In my view it is the only way that sin could be dealt with. But God had to enter humanity in order for that to be accomplished. And in my view God did enter humanity in the person of Jesus and Jesus has revealed the Father to us. As He said in Matt 11 "no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him". If I was in Scotland, I'm sure we could have a lengthy chat or we could PM. We haven't travelled much in Scotland but have enjoyed our time there a few years ago now. Many thanks Ross, I do very much enjoy your sincerity. Like yourself I have had a spritual journey encountering and meeting with other "Christians" since parting ways with the 2x2s. For me, I did hear a good deal about Jesus whilst in the 2x2s, but much of it was an amalgamation of Jesus and the ministry. In some ways that was fine, but in the contexts that I am referring to it applies with every believer, not just the ministerial class. "Trinity" was a word I had heard often enough from outside sources, but I had never had it explained and merely thought it was a term embracing God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit, without further interpretation. For myself the Bible makes absolute sense that God raised up an ordinary man into whom he put his spirit. I fail to see how sin "was completely and eternally dealt with within the Godhead." Sin entered the world through man and God used a perfect man, with his power in him, his Spirit, to overcome the World, the flesh and the devil (sin), something we must all do with the power of God in us. Jesus was born with the Spirit of God in him. It was through this power he remained sinless. For ourselves we must be born again with this same power to be like him and have his sacrifice atone for our sins. Yes God has to enter humanity to accomplish that in all of us. He does this by his Spirit. God revealed himself through Jesus. He poured his spirit into this human being without measure. When someone quotes me a one liner from scripture I usually go to the passage to see the context from the surrounding passages to try and get an understanding. Here is what Matthew 11 says. Notice how It is God "through" Jesus that does the "revealing." God is working through Jesus. Every true Christian is blessed with this privilege now. 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.[/b] If you ever return to Scotland I will do my best to make you most welcome. I am happy to discuss Jesus further, but would prefer email as I will be leaving this board soon due to other commitments.
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