|
Post by bubbles on Aug 5, 2015 14:32:15 GMT -5
As people become more materialistic, it becomes harder to preach the Gospel. People become more interested in things rather than people. So Workers have to go to third World countries, to find those who want to listen. It is a bit sad for older Workers as they feel they have a good story to tell. You wonder if it is as relevant today as what it was 100 years ago. Those early Workers were very dedicated, and the message did appeal to many, including our Parents. However times do change, both for good and bad. I have never felt it was deceit, as their message was an alternate to the main stream Churches. They were sincere in that belief, and I can understand that. The message held up at that time, but it will not cut it today. When I was growing up I became very fond of a young Worker who stayed in our home many times. We used to work together on the farm, and there was a great bond between us. He went to New Guinea, and came back after a couple of years, very disappointed. He said that the Natives were looking for material help, clothes, food, money, etc. They were at a disadvantage as other Churches were providing that, as well as spiritual. He tried to convince the Overseer at the time, that maybe they could give some help with food and clothes. However the answer was no, so he left the work. He married another sister Worker, and as far as I know,lived a happy life. Redback that account gave me shock and it really grieves me inside. This could have been an opportunity. I dont know how anyone could have not helped. The overseer was clearly wrong. In my experience always the gratitude when someone is needy, tears the response is towards god. The hearts are softened. They open to the gospel. I cant believe a person could say no. I know the friends if asked would have helped. The apostles gave out. They didnt hold back. There are verses that say did you feed me did you cloth me? Matt 25:42 I feel for the worker.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Aug 5, 2015 14:36:28 GMT -5
Bert, my Worker friend did not say they were "the wrong sort of people". He was disappointed that they were not able to provide the loaves and fishes that Scott mentions. My friend was a very compassionate, sensible man, and realised that the people needed more than spiritual help, they needed natural as well. Other Churches were doing that. When he asked his Overseer the answer was no. That was a bigger disappoiuntment, he left the work. Many worldly churches do many good things to help others. I am always happy to see & support this part of religion in action. As a 2x2, I thought if I just prayed "show them the truth", I had done a more important thing. I dont agree and il tell you why. People pray especially the needy there would have been intercessors like hannah who prayed before any hands did the work. Its part of the process of the body of christ working together for good. The prayer warriors rarely get recognition.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Aug 5, 2015 14:40:50 GMT -5
Many worldly churches do many good things to help others. I am always happy to see & support this part of religion in action. As a 2x2, I thought if I just prayed "show them the truth", I had done a more important thing. I dont agree and il tell you why. People pray especially the needy there would have been intercessors like hannah who prayed before any hands did the work. Its part of the process of the body of christ working together for good. The prayer warriors rarely get recognition. Let's say you're choking. I can either do the heimlich maneuver, or pray for you. Which one would you want me to do?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Aug 5, 2015 14:46:29 GMT -5
Yes I totally agree, but it doesn't have to be done under a church umbrella. People within a church can give all they want to to the poor (there are many way to do this) and the gospel can be preached. Why does the helping and giving have to be from 'the church'. I know many of our friends that are very involved in charities and non profit organisations but they dont involve the church. Isnt this a better way to do it? Tom Its what Jesus and the early apostles did.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Aug 5, 2015 14:49:46 GMT -5
I dont agree and il tell you why. People pray especially the needy there would have been intercessors like hannah who prayed before any hands did the work. Its part of the process of the body of christ working together for good. The prayer warriors rarely get recognition. Let's say you're choking. I can either do the heimlich maneuver, or pray for you. Which one would you want me to do? Pray. Please..because the heimlich maneuver is no longer used in FA. A nurse did a demo on me at work one day. She did hurt my sternam. Strong she was!!!
|
|
|
Post by xna on Aug 5, 2015 15:10:30 GMT -5
Let's say you're choking. I can either do the heimlich maneuver, or pray for you. Which one would you want me to do? Pray. Please..because the heimlich maneuver is no longer used in FA. A nurse did a demo on me at work one day. She did hurt my sternam. Strong she was!!! The Heimlich Maneuver is still recommend in the USA. www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/choking.html I suspect here in the USA, you could be held liable for "failing your duty to rescue" someone that was chocking, if all you did was pray.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Aug 5, 2015 17:35:47 GMT -5
Bert, my Worker friend did not say they were "the wrong sort of people". He was disappointed that they were not able to provide the loaves and fishes that Scott mentions. My friend was a very compassionate, sensible man, and realised that the people needed more than spiritual help, they needed natural as well. Other Churches were doing that. When he asked his Overseer the answer was no. That was a bigger disappoiuntment, he left the work. Seems your Worker friend could have joined some Govt or International food aid service like World Vision, US Agency for International Development, Oxfam etc.. They are the professionals.
ps I doubt though that giving food to people all the time teaches them self sufficiency.ps Self-sufficiency is not always an option.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Aug 5, 2015 17:38:55 GMT -5
I'm not understanding how someone couldn't have compassion for someone in need. Why WOULDN'T you want to share a little something with them? I know many use the ones that did it to themselves as an excuse to help no-one. Why did Jesus tell that man that he asked to follow him, to give all that he had to the poor? Did he tell them to go figure out which of the poor deserved it? Nope. Jesus had compassion on everyone. This man was not willing for the cost. I believe ultimately that those that are not willing to help the poor, use many excuses, but the real reason is that they are not willing for the cost. If you came across an alcoholic with the shakes, begging in the street, and you knew he was going to spend your contribution on booze, would you contribute?
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Aug 5, 2015 17:43:25 GMT -5
Quote - "I think you're wrong Bert. Yesterday my 13 year old daughter - after volleyball practice (beach/sand) asked if one of her team-mate/friend, who had never been to church, could come to meeting with us and spend the night. We have to jam from the beach, 1/2 hour to meeting, and barely make it in time after practice to Wednesday night meeting. So on the way, her friend was wearing a dress with wide straps for sleeves (not spaghetti straps). She looked over at my daughter and said "am I not suppose to be showing my shoulders?". I was really impressed with my daughters answer. She said, "no, thats ok, we just want to look modest". Then she went on and explained what that meant (to her). I really think you paint the young generation in a wrong light. I actually think they have better hearts than when I was that age. I wasn't professing, and I probably would have been embarrassed for my friends to even know I was heading to some weird 2X2 church." I have to pipe in here... These styles are not unlike the way I dressed in summer in my teens in the 1970's! ... Me too!
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 5, 2015 18:25:58 GMT -5
It sure is. I had a whole separate wardrobe I wore to school that I kept at my friend's house. I would leave the house dressed strange, get to my friends house and dress in regular clothes, go to school, and do the reverse on the way home. I wasn't professing anymore when I did that but that didn't make any difference. I was still expected to dress like them and in those days it was pretty bland. I didn't do anything outrageous, just normal for the day and age I lived in. It really is too bad that such an emphasis was placed on dress. I'm not talking about "modesty" - for those that might jump on me for saying this. I feel bad for my sister. She is still professing, but to this day cannot get over the fact that she was forced to dress so differently, and feel like such a "freak" (her words) at school. Us guys didn't have it hard at all compared to the girls. I hope she can some day get over the resentment over this. Things are so much more reasonable today amongst most of the Friends and Workers. Yes it did feel like you were a freak. And that was even at a time when all girls had to wear dresses to school. I never dressed immodestly, just didn't want the styles that I was being forced to wear. I babysat and started to buy my clothes and left them at my friends house that was on the way to school. It was like living a double life all the time just in an effort to be 'normal'. I hated it so much.
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Aug 5, 2015 21:23:04 GMT -5
I'm not understanding how someone couldn't have compassion for someone in need. Why WOULDN'T you want to share a little something with them? I know many use the ones that did it to themselves as an excuse to help no-one. Why did Jesus tell that man that he asked to follow him, to give all that he had to the poor? Did he tell them to go figure out which of the poor deserved it? Nope. Jesus had compassion on everyone. This man was not willing for the cost. I believe ultimately that those that are not willing to help the poor, use many excuses, but the real reason is that they are not willing for the cost. If you came across an alcoholic with the shakes, begging in the street, and you knew he was going to spend your contribution on booze, would you contribute? I have come accross some like that. I would normally either give them a gift card to a resturant, or buy them a meal. I do have discression though, I must admit. If I run across a 25 year old able bodied kid, then I probably would not help. A poor old pathetic, wasted guy still has to eat...poor old guy. All I can do is buy the poor old guy a meal, and feel sorry for him. Hopefully others do the same, and with enough people having compassion, the poor old wasted guy lives another year.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Aug 6, 2015 3:13:52 GMT -5
Pray. Please..because the heimlich maneuver is no longer used in FA. A nurse did a demo on me at work one day. She did hurt my sternam. Strong she was!!! The Heimlich Maneuver is still recommend in the USA. www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/choking.html I suspect here in the USA, you could be held liable for "failing your duty to rescue" someone that was chocking, if all you did was pray. Well id be praying and patting their back 5 times between the shoulder blades.. :Pthey wouldnt know I was praying
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Aug 6, 2015 5:15:50 GMT -5
If you came across an alcoholic with the shakes, begging in the street, and you knew he was going to spend your contribution on booze, would you contribute? I have come accross some like that. I would normally either give them a gift card to a resturant, or buy them a meal. I do have discression though, I must admit. If I run across a 25 year old able bodied kid, then I probably would not help. A poor old pathetic, wasted guy still has to eat...poor old guy. All I can do is buy the poor old guy a meal, and feel sorry for him. Hopefully others do the same, and with enough people having compassion, the poor old wasted guy lives another year. Sometimes the poor old pathetic wasted guy needs a drink, too. I've given them money even when I was fairly certain that's where it would go, because I knew it would give them at least a few minutes or hours of comfort. I'm not in the business of reforming alcoholics or giving the homeless a roof over their heads. Sometimes the best one can do is provide a little temporary comfort to a very few.
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Aug 6, 2015 8:26:53 GMT -5
It really is too bad that such an emphasis was placed on dress. I'm not talking about "modesty" - for those that might jump on me for saying this. I feel bad for my sister. She is still professing, but to this day cannot get over the fact that she was forced to dress so differently, and feel like such a "freak" (her words) at school. Us guys didn't have it hard at all compared to the girls. I hope she can some day get over the resentment over this. Things are so much more reasonable today amongst most of the Friends and Workers. Yes it did feel like you were a freak. And that was even at a time when all girls had to wear dresses to school. I never dressed immodestly, just didn't want the styles that I was being forced to wear. I babysat and started to buy my clothes and left them at my friends house that was on the way to school. It was like living a double life all the time just in an effort to be 'normal'. I hated it so much. I think I looked more joke than freak. It was early 00's before I owned pants of my own other than for sports. I did the double life thing too. A school friend lent some of her normal clothes, several sizes too big but what can you do . Thank goodness those days are over for most today in the fellowship .
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 6, 2015 10:58:53 GMT -5
Yes it did feel like you were a freak. And that was even at a time when all girls had to wear dresses to school. I never dressed immodestly, just didn't want the styles that I was being forced to wear. I babysat and started to buy my clothes and left them at my friends house that was on the way to school. It was like living a double life all the time just in an effort to be 'normal'. I hated it so much. I think I looked more joke than freak. It was early 00's before I owned pants of my own other than for sports. I did the double life thing too. A school friend lent some of her normal clothes, several sizes too big but what can you do . Thank goodness those days are over for most today in the fellowship . Yes, religions do change over time if too many people start leaving because of things like this. To survive they need to change with the culture they live in or they do risk 'death'. Glad to hear women aren't required to look so strange anymore.
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Aug 13, 2015 3:51:52 GMT -5
Wow the 2x2s in our city are still so drab,very sad,yet they as 2x2 men go off at the Salvation Army uniforms. Then you are more likely to see a Salvation Army member acting as the good Samaritan,arn't we? No change of dress cause dress and hair are used as weapons of judgement as to how you are committed to 2x2 bondage doctorine. The Gospel is liberating,your actions and commitments are between you and God.You look in a mirror and think will God approve this,or would a worker tell me to change. Like the lady who could not wear long hair for health reasons. Madame old maid "she looks so worldly". But Madame old maid worker "It has to be cut for a medical problem", oomph,"well she still looks worldly". What would Jesus have said?
|
|
|
Post by friendly67 on Aug 14, 2015 3:06:17 GMT -5
I know that workers in PNG do give food to and help the people. Guess times have changed. They do try and teach a man to fish rather than give them fish.
|
|