kj
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Post by kj on Jul 9, 2015 12:17:46 GMT -5
So what was their name before? Wow! What a reception! My name before? Anyone pretending to know from before is way over the hill and lost at sea. You see these three "Cupcakes" to feed upon are my first postings here, ever. Maryhig, ever hear how to tell if someone is dead? In med school there was the joke "poke them with a pen and find out. As to have I been here before? Yes but only to read for several years. Am I married to someone here, yes. Not to hard to figure out who I am? Fine, didn't intend to post as anonymous anyway because your admin knows who I am. I I I merely posted to let you know what this total "outtie" might think of what they read here. My aswer? At present not very much. My questions? You might try answering those with a question mark. Not here to answer questions so you've had your shot, nor do I intend to ever post here again. By not answering mine, you've all sure answered a lot. Everyone can returns to their wonderfully christian ways, or not.
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Post by withlove on Jul 9, 2015 15:22:28 GMT -5
So what was their name before? Wow! What a reception! My name before? Anyone pretending to know from before is way over the hill and lost at sea. You see these three "Cupcakes" to feed upon are my first postings here, ever. Maryhig, ever hear how to tell if someone is dead? In med school there was the joke "poke them with a pen and find out. As to have I been here before? Yes but only to read for several years. Am I married to someone here, yes. Not to hard to figure out who I am? Fine, didn't intend to post as anonymous anyway because your admin knows who I am. I I I merely posted to let you know what this total "outtie" might think of what they read here. My aswer? At present not very much. My questions? You might try answering those with a question mark. Not here to answer questions so you've had your shot, nor do I intend to ever post here again. By not answering mine, you've all sure answered a lot. Everyone can returns to their wonderfully christian ways, or not. kj, welcome. Sorry you didn't get the best reception. I don't understand hints at discovering people's identities on here...it has happened several times lately and is disturbing to me. It shouldn't matter who you are, and we all should feel safely anonymous if we want to.
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Post by Greg on Jul 9, 2015 15:50:02 GMT -5
kj, welcome. Sorry you didn't get the best reception. I don't understand hints at discovering people's identities on here...it has happened several times lately and is disturbing to me. It shouldn't matter who you are, and we all should feel safely anonymous if we want to. It shouldn't matter who you are? Apparently it does matter. Otherwise why use anonymous names? If the discussion was just about doctrine and traditions, that would be one thing. But when people and personal experiences are negatively criticized and other such things, then the name of the cowards is important.
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 9, 2015 16:02:40 GMT -5
kj, welcome. Sorry you didn't get the best reception. I don't understand hints at discovering people's identities on here...it has happened several times lately and is disturbing to me. It shouldn't matter who you are, and we all should feel safely anonymous if we want to. It shouldn't matter who you are? Apparently it does matter. Otherwise why use anonymous names? If the discussion was just about doctrine and traditions, that would be one thing. But when people and personal experiences are negatively criticized and other such things, then the name of the cowards is important. Absolutely agree Greg. Like Maryhig said earlier KJ came on here criticising people about all sorts of things and talking about the harmony on the board, only to 'sink the boot' into a few people. Then gets completely offended and packs up their crayons and leaves when someone suggests they *might* know who they are. Go figure
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 16:16:14 GMT -5
good post and question jon dough! I quickly looked back through kj's posts! I could ask kj LOTS of questions after doing that! There are LOTS of things that don't 'add up'/ring true'. Review005 ~ Could this be the reason for so many ex-2x2's today? Here's one young gal who seems to feel this way about the 2x2's along with most of her family today. Her perspective from a young person's point of view on You-tube just might have some answers for you as to why things just don't add up or ring true? www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMb8Sud79oowell that's 9 minutes and 55 seconds I wont get back...
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 9, 2015 16:20:03 GMT -5
So what was their name before? Not to hard to figure out who I am? Fine, didn't intend to post as anonymous anyway because your admin knows who I am. I I I merely posted to let you know what this total "outtie" might think of what they read here. My aswer? At present not very much. My questions? You might try answering those with a question mark. Not here to answer questions so you've had your shot, nor do I intend to ever post here again. By not answering mine, you've all sure answered a lot. KJ if you didn't intend to post as anonymous then why just initials and not full name? If as an 'outtie' you didn't think much of what's posted here, what does that say for your spouses posts? You're not here to answer anyone's questions but you'd like them to answer yours? And if they ask what are your questions you have a go at them for not answering your questions? I would've thought as you've been reading on this board for 'several years' you'd have a good idea how it works! Questions need to be clear and to the point Also if your only posts on here are accusing & inflammatory you're not likely to get any answers, just more questions (which will most likely be 'what are your motives for posting here?) By the way I wasn't suggesting you were here before, more suggestion your spouse might be helping with composing the posts as they have a distinctive writing style. Anyway, it would be nice to have some perspective from an 'outie' on this board, just as long as you don't start with throwing stones
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 9, 2015 16:28:17 GMT -5
Review005 ~ Could this be the reason for so many ex-2x2's today? Here's one young gal who seems to feel this way about the 2x2's along with most of her family today. Her perspective from a young person's point of view on You-tube just might have some answers for you as to why things just don't add up or ring true? www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMb8Sud79oo well that's 9 minutes and 55 seconds I wont get back... Clearly she's quite young, but sometimes they're the best ones to listen to. She's obviously not scared of saying it how she sees it. Took me years to learn that 'skill' and mostly I still don't get it right! The whole point is LISTEN! Listen to what the young ones are saying. Don't just listen to the ones towing the line, listen to the ones who are troubled. When you shut them down because you dismiss what they say as being silly, you loose another one... And likely another Few that have the same struggles. I went to a senior worker once with some information about another worker at a very inconvenient time (Sunday morning at convention when he was preparing the bread & wine for the meeting - we do that in Australia) What I really appreciated and what still stays with me about that man is his willingness to not dismiss me but to spend 15 mins with me to 'clear the air' ... He cared.
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Post by snow on Jul 9, 2015 17:17:42 GMT -5
So what was their name before? Wow! What a reception! My name before? Anyone pretending to know from before is way over the hill and lost at sea. You see these three "Cupcakes" to feed upon are my first postings here, ever. Maryhig, ever hear how to tell if someone is dead? In med school there was the joke "poke them with a pen and find out. As to have I been here before? Yes but only to read for several years. Am I married to someone here, yes. Not to hard to figure out who I am? Fine, didn't intend to post as anonymous anyway because your admin knows who I am. I I I merely posted to let you know what this total "outtie" might think of what they read here. My aswer? At present not very much. My questions? You might try answering those with a question mark. Not here to answer questions so you've had your shot, nor do I intend to ever post here again. By not answering mine, you've all sure answered a lot. Everyone can returns to their wonderfully christian ways, or not. Well that's just it, I did answer some questions in my very first post to you and I also said I thought you would be a great addition to the board because you would have good insights being on the outside. I don't want to know who you are. I was asking the poster who said they knew who you used to be who they thought that might be. I would love for you to stay and post. Your choice though for sure.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 9, 2015 18:02:12 GMT -5
good post and question jon dough! I quickly looked back through kj's posts! I could ask kj LOTS of questions after doing that! There are LOTS of things that don't 'add up'/ring true'. Review005 ~ Could this be the reason for so many ex-2x2's today? Here's one young gal who seems to feel this way about the 2x2's along with most of her family today. Her perspective from a young person's point of view on You-tube just might have some answers for you as to why things just don't add up or ring true? Any particular reason that is listed as "comedy"??
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 9, 2015 18:06:48 GMT -5
Review005 ~ Could this be the reason for so many ex-2x2's today? Here's one young gal who seems to feel this way about the 2x2's along with most of her family today. Her perspective from a young person's point of view on You-tube just might have some answers for you as to why things just don't add up or ring true? Any particular reason that is listed as "comedy"?? Young ones these days!!
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Post by christiansburg on Jul 9, 2015 18:14:22 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice this, but hurt, offense, bad treatment, disappointment with the F&W's.... it seems to be the common stock in trade of the ex movement. Some even seem to delight in it?! There's something sad and wrong, and missing, about this. I think I was particularly struck some time ago when some lady said how her life was ruined because of csa. By a worker or someone of the f&w I'm sure. What I noticed was how she was being exploited for her story, in order to denounce the f&w, again. Her pain was trotted out to poke in their noses. But nowhere was there any mention of God who can heal the broken hearted, who can turn every bad thing into victory? It was like she had been, (and was being) kept in the dark about the cure so she could be used as a victim to make the point again that '...I've been hurt, by the f&w'. The recurring chorus that the ex movement gravitates to. Is her life still ruined? Or is her usefulness here now done with, so she can go on to be healed off stage? This is what I have often referred to as being stuck in a rut. If they have moved on to something better they should put their terrible past behind them and move on to what is a "better life" as they say. Having said that I do realize that some of those old csa offenses among us, as well as many other religious groups, should have been, and should be dealt with. All of us have failures in one way or another but if you can't put the past behind you there is no way you can move forward. Paul spoke of himself as being chief of sinners but he learned to put the past behind him (which was a terrible past)...and press toward the mark... I don't recall that the Christians of that day continually berated him for his crimes.
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Post by xna on Jul 9, 2015 18:20:43 GMT -5
Any particular reason that is listed as "comedy"?? My guess is it's the youtube default category. I also noticed: ~ 50 new views today. ~ Interesting Youtube comments such as; "It was sexual sin within our meeting that caused us to start looking around and questioning things"
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 9, 2015 18:25:59 GMT -5
Young ones these days!! There are heartily, serious young men and women among us/2x2 who are very kingdom minded folks out there. They have relationship with God, and know their Bible. I was one of them and met many in my days... I know there are Nathan but there's also a whole bunch more who struggle with the 'rules & regulations' and also understanding the scriptures and just need someone to show some interest in them and their questions. When I was younger I never felt workers were approachable for that kind of thing, and when I got a bit older I found out, for the most part, they weren't!! Young kids are crying out for a 'how's things going, have you got any questions for me. If you don't right now, have a think about it and get back to me' the culture needs to change a bit in that respect.
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 9, 2015 18:56:01 GMT -5
I know there are Nathan but there's also a whole bunch more who struggle with the 'rules & regulations' and also understanding the scriptures and just need someone to show some interest in them and their questions. When I was younger I never felt workers were approachable for that kind of thing, and when I got a bit older I found out, for the most part, they weren't!! Young kids are crying out for a 'how's things going, have you got any questions for me. If you don't right now, have a think about it and get back to me' the culture needs to change a bit in that respect. I had known and met workers (Leo Stancliff, Harold B. Jay Wicks, Craig J. and others) who enjoyed answering questions, teaching the scriptures to young people. When Lowell S. and I were together in Boise, Idaho field... We had young people get together once a month, answering their questions, having Bible studies together with them.
You and others would have loved to meet the workers that I had known and been with.... We would have a blast. So, I am trying to share what I have learned from the workers who taught me and from God on TMB. I will try to answer any questions honestly and truthfully.
Here in Queensland there is a VER LARGE GAP between the workers and friends (in my experience) Any questions or questioning is not really met with openness.
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Post by Mary on Jul 9, 2015 18:58:37 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice this, but hurt, offense, bad treatment, disappointment with the F&W's.... it seems to be the common stock in trade of the ex movement. Some even seem to delight in it?! There's something sad and wrong, and missing, about this. I think I was particularly struck some time ago when some lady said how her life was ruined because of csa. By a worker or someone of the f&w I'm sure. What I noticed was how she was being exploited for her story, in order to denounce the f&w, again. Her pain was trotted out to poke in their noses. But nowhere was there any mention of God who can heal the broken hearted, who can turn every bad thing into victory? It was like she had been, (and was being) kept in the dark about the cure so she could be used as a victim to make the point again that '...I've been hurt, by the f&w'. The recurring chorus that the ex movement gravitates to. Is her life still ruined? Or is her usefulness here now done with, so she can go on to be healed off stage? This is what I have often referred to as being stuck in a rut. If they have moved on to something better they should put their terrible past behind them and move on to what is a "better life" as they say. Having said that I do realize that some of those old csa offenses among us, as well as many other religious groups, should have been, and should be dealt with. All of us have failures in one way or another but if you can't put the past behind you there is no way you can move forward. Paul spoke of himself as being chief of sinners but he learned to put the past behind him (which was a terrible past)...and press toward the mark... I don't recall that the Christians of that day continually berated him for his crimes. Most have put their past behind them. Is being on this board meaning they have not moved on - remember you are on this board too? Is talking about their past experiences meaning they have not moved on - not a sign to me? I wonder how you know people on here have not moved on? Do you have inside knowledge of people's lives? Perhaps it's you who is stuck?
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Post by withlove on Jul 9, 2015 19:08:00 GMT -5
What a precious, innocent child. I want to hug her. She keeps it light and makes jokes and has realizations as she's talking. It's amazing.
God must feel a little like this when he sees us the duped innocent child inside us working through our experiences.
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Post by withlove on Jul 9, 2015 19:20:15 GMT -5
kj, welcome. Sorry you didn't get the best reception. I don't understand hints at discovering people's identities on here...it has happened several times lately and is disturbing to me. It shouldn't matter who you are, and we all should feel safely anonymous if we want to. It shouldn't matter who you are? Apparently it does matter. Otherwise why use anonymous names? If the discussion was just about doctrine and traditions, that would be one thing. But when people and personal experiences are negatively criticized and other such things, then the name of the cowards is important. Ok, I can see your point. Not comfortable with it, but I understand the motive.
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Post by christiansburg on Jul 9, 2015 19:56:28 GMT -5
This is what I have often referred to as being stuck in a rut. If they have moved on to something better they should put their terrible past behind them and move on to what is a "better life" as they say. Having said that I do realize that some of those old csa offenses among us, as well as many other religious groups, should have been, and should be dealt with. All of us have failures in one way or another but if you can't put the past behind you there is no way you can move forward. Paul spoke of himself as being chief of sinners but he learned to put the past behind him (which was a terrible past)...and press toward the mark... I don't recall that the Christians of that day continually berated him for his crimes. Most have put their past behind them. Is being on this board meaning they have not moved on - remember you are on this board too? Is talking about their past experiences meaning they have not moved on - not a sign to me? I wonder how you know people on here have not moved on? Do you have inside knowledge of people's lives? Perhaps it's you who is stuck? I respond to those who are stuck in the rut of the past. I see your footprints in the rut.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 9, 2015 20:16:04 GMT -5
Any particular reason that is listed as "comedy"?? My guess is it's the youtube default category. From what I've read "people" is the default. I have a youtube channel, setting category is pretty easy.
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Post by open mind on Jul 9, 2015 21:34:43 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice this, but hurt, offense, bad treatment, disappointment with the F&W's.... it seems to be the common stock in trade of the ex movement. Some even seem to delight in it?! There's something sad and wrong, and missing, about this. I think I was particularly struck some time ago when some lady said how her life was ruined because of csa. By a worker or someone of the f&w I'm sure. What I noticed was how she was being exploited for her story, in order to denounce the f&w, again. Her pain was trotted out to poke in their noses. But nowhere was there any mention of God who can heal the broken hearted, who can turn every bad thing into victory? It was like she had been, (and was being) kept in the dark about the cure so she could be used as a victim to make the point again that '...I've been hurt, by the f&w'. The recurring chorus that the ex movement gravitates to. Is her life still ruined? Or is her usefulness here now done with, so she can go on to be healed off stage? I wonder if this is because of the "treatment" exes receive from the 2x2's and what was preached about the "lost" (IMO from my own experience when growing up) I have have moved on after quitting about 12 months ago but, as an observation only, I have not been contacted once by anyone I used to meet with or workers to talk to me about it. We have in fact had workers stay in our home (my wife is still professing)and they have not once talked to me about it, in fact really dont talk to me much at all, just the few cursory questions about life in general. I think you also need to look at the converse where the 2x2 (especially the workers) also exploit stories of people leaving, in order to "denounce" the exes, and their "bitterness" to influence the masses to stay on in the group. This is just human nature! Look at the weigh loss industry for example! No one is perfect, not exes not incumbents
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Post by faune on Jul 9, 2015 21:58:41 GMT -5
Review005 ~ Could this be the reason for so many ex-2x2's today? Here's one young gal who seems to feel this way about the 2x2's along with most of her family today. Her perspective from a young person's point of view on You-tube just might have some answers for you as to why things just don't add up or ring true? www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMb8Sud79oo well that's 9 minutes and 55 seconds I wont get back... Wally ~ Well, at least you did check it out for yourself, which is more than Review005 did when he heard the word "cult" in the beginning of her presentation. She's a really young gal with no ax to grind. However, she did notice a few things during her sojourn within the 2x2's that sounded awfully familiar to me. Honestly, if the workers don't change their approach to the young folks, they may find themselves out of a job themselves in coming years? People need to be respected and heard by their leaders, not silenced and reprimanded for having an opinion. The days of "lording it over the flock" are coming to a close and those older workers who practice this behavior are going to be in for a rude awakening, if they don't wake up to their failings at communication.
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Post by faune on Jul 9, 2015 22:03:56 GMT -5
Any particular reason that is listed as "comedy"?? My guess is it's the youtube default category. I also noticed: ~ 50 new views today. ~ Interesting Youtube comments such as; "It was sexual sin within our meeting that caused us to start looking around and questioning things"
A pervert in meeting sounds like a good reason to leave, especially if you have kids and fear for their safety? Also, the hypocrisy of such folks living a "double life" would also be a turn-off to most folks who know the truth. What is really sad is that nobody felt the need to report such a person to civil authorities for investigation of such allegations!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 22:11:53 GMT -5
What would stop me leaving my church is all the perverts out in the general community, or even in my own living room if I turned on a TV. I would feel more at home with someone at least giving lip service to an ideal than to people who openly live the same life, and repudiate that ideal.
Wasn't that said in the bible, that one day the devil will be in the open? And those people who in biblical times who practiced witchcraft, loved idols or engaged in "fornication" (anything not heterosexual marital sex) now do it openly.
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Post by faune on Jul 9, 2015 22:20:42 GMT -5
Just an observation that I think makes a lot of sense regarding ex-members. When a company loses a client they try and leave on the best terms possible: 1. You don't particularly want an ex-client talking negatively about the company; and 2. The client may well come back again in the future Generally, it's very rare that clients want to leave on acrimonious terms and the company also wants it to go smoothly as well. Thousands of folk have now left the 2x2's around the world. There are exit letters, testimonies, written communication from workers, recordings - more things that you could poke a stick at, and a number are negative. ALL it takes to change that is for a worker or workers to put effort into those who have questions or are in the process of leaving to: - listen to them properly - care for them and show them love - not accuse them of anything such as blasphemy for questioning or leaving - make an effort to contact them after they have left to make sure they are okay - act as a Shepherd You would find an immediate and lasting reduction in negative comments and feedback. The same goes with ex-members now - if I was senior worker I'd reach out to them, have coffee with them and show love and care to them. Any negative talk would reduce immediately. I've seen a case in a church setting where a youth worker sexually abused a young person 25 years ago. Because the minister at the church (he was not there at the time) and the church more generally reached out to the abused person, apologised, took them through new procedures and practices that protect younger children today - he felt very comfortable with what had now been done and appreciated the minister's love and care in the situation. It didn't remove the abuse that had occurred but it certainly changed the abused person's view that the church did not care - it cared deeply and he had support. In the overall scheme of things there are likely very few ex-members who have been abused in this way. Therefore, how much easier should it be for the 2x2 church to maintain positive relationships with those who are leaving or have left. Ross ~ A very insightful observation. I would guess with a few meaningful gestures towards concerned friends through listening with a desire to understand, showing empathy, and compassion when needed would make a world of difference within the 2x2's? Unfortunately, it might be humbling for some workers to make such an effort towards communication instead of being in the judging and commanding roles?
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Post by withlove on Jul 9, 2015 22:22:02 GMT -5
My guess is it's the youtube default category. From what I've read "people" is the default. I have a youtube channel, setting category is pretty easy. She was trying to be funny at some points in the video. And maybe all her videos are supposed to be somewhat funny.
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Post by faune on Jul 9, 2015 22:31:13 GMT -5
Wally ~ Well, at least you did check it out for yourself, which is more than Review005 did when he heard the word "cult" in the beginning of her presentation. She's a really young gal with no ax to grind. However, she did notice a few things during her sojourn within the 2x2's that sounded awfully familiar to me. Honestly, if the workers don't change their approach to the young folks, they may find themselves out of a job themselves in coming years? People need to be respected and heard by their leaders, not silenced and reprimanded for having an opinion. The days of "lording it over the flock" are coming to a close and those older workers who practice this behavior are going to be in for a rude awakening, if they don't wake up to their failings at communication. Agree Faune - but like Wally I was hoping the video would move a bit faster.... Seriously though at the end of the day, this technology is just going to become more pervasive and people can put it up for the world to see. An organisation can either adopt a "head in the sand" approach or they can try and deal with it. As I said previously, it's pretty easy to do deal with. I wonder if the day will ever occur that: (a) a person could have a decent chat over a meal or coffee with a worker over the person moving to another Christian church and the worker would genuinely listen as to why (maybe it does in some places) and not judge them but wish them all the best as they continue life in Christ (b) in line with (a) the worker doesn't say that they are sad that they person has lost their faith (when clearly they haven't) and (c) the worker would keep in touch with them (and vice versa) to see how the person is going in their new fellowship Ross ~ I agree, but that would take a major change in workers' attitudes towards the churches outside of the fold and letting go of their exclusive one-and-only true church mindset. The "walls" would have to come down first to open the door to real communication and better understanding. However, back when I left the fold over 20 years ago, not one worker or friend even tried to contact me as to the reason why I left one Sunday morning without warning and never returned. Over two years later I tried to reach out to a few of them only to be rejected again in my efforts to communicate. Due to my own personal experiences, I would never dream of ever returning to the "fold" again for a repeat performance! I got their message after all.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 9, 2015 22:38:04 GMT -5
From what I've read "people" is the default. I have a youtube channel, setting category is pretty easy. She was trying to be funny at some points in the video. And maybe all her videos are supposed to be somewhat funny. Her other videos are interesting. She seems like a really nice girl.
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Post by Mary on Jul 9, 2015 23:02:06 GMT -5
Most have put their past behind them. Is being on this board meaning they have not moved on - remember you are on this board too? Is talking about their past experiences meaning they have not moved on - not a sign to me? I wonder how you know people on here have not moved on? Do you have inside knowledge of people's lives? Perhaps it's you who is stuck? I respond to those who are stuck in the rut of the past. I see your footprints in the rut. I am certainly in no rut. I have gone forth in full spring since leaving the meetings. I perceive you are in a rut, unable to appreciate people's experiences. I enjoy people - their past, present and future. I am a firm believer in people telling their stories. Life is not all good, but a mixture of good and bad. I don't try and shut people up. Great that people can tell their stories and to see the healing that has taken place in the lives of most of those who have left meetings. The joy of being free and for those who have not been put off by religion, to see the joy of the Lord who is their strength.
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