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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 3:41:43 GMT -5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Virgo, do you remember the preaching of Colin McNicol regarding Revelations. Do you have any notes about his preaching on this or access to any notes. He sure had an understanding of Revelations. yes i remember Colin well, i don't have any on the computer but i will go through a lot of old ones to see
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Post by dmmichgood on May 24, 2015 4:36:38 GMT -5
First of all, Maryhig, I am NOT saying that you "lie" of "make things up."
Second, you make a flat out statement that; "if you had seen the things I've seen then you would believe." How can you say such a flat out statement about me? Don't you think that I & others have had similar experiences?
You cite the death of your father-in-law; here is MY experience. Here is MY experience.
One Wed. night during meeting in my father-in- law's home the phone ring. Now I don't know about your meetings but in ours yous simple don't talk on the phone during a meeting. So, the phone was just ignored and let ring until it stopped. I felt uneasy and edged closer to the phone and vowed to myself if it rang again, I was going to answer it.
It rang again. I answered. It was my sister-in-law in tears and said my father had died. I answered, "Yes, I know."
Now, I personally believe that experience of mine was even more conclusive an experience than your own! However, Did I take that experience as infallible proof that God existed? NO! I had had a letter from my father that day. He said that he had got the small garden plow I had wanted at an farm auction. He said he bought it at a very good price, then added in the kind of humor as was his wont, -it was a good price, if he didn't get a cold from the bad weather! I knew he had heart trouble and with all that information (although no cold had even had time to develop) I realized that it all was just a coincident It was NOT any "infallible proof that God existed." (Remember I was a believer, I was "professing" at the time.)
To believe it was proof would have been one of several a logical fallacies:
*Cum Hoc Fallacy (Poorly assumed correlation of two things) *Post Hoc Fallacy (Assumption of cause and effect) *Subjectivist Fallacy (Lack of questioning of premises)
It would have been faulty reasoning on my part to use that kind of thinking. I'm NOT talking about whether you believe or I don't believe something.
I am talking about how people reason things out & sometimes we can use the type of reasoning that is NOT sound! We are also very capable of deceiving ourselves.
The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! I just think you'll never get me, never mind. Curly is right were poles apart! As I said, you haven't lived through what I have, you don't know!
I don't know why you can't just accept that I have faith and believe in God.
Maybe I should go on and on at you about why you don't believe. Because I think it's foolish to think that God doesn't exist and there isn't anything behind the creation of everything in the universe and that it just all appeared! To me that's nonsense! Oh yeah I forgot, there was an explosion from nothing. It just happened! But if that's how you see it. Then ok! I don't! PS just as thought, what kind of fallacy is that, when you believe something can be created from nothing? Maryhig, I have to told and told you, -I am NOT talking about WHAT you believe.
I am talking about HOW, repeat HOW, -people, ALL people, arrive at the conclusions for their beliefs; WHAT method of reasoning are they using to arrive at those conclusions.
It is clearly your right to believe whatever you want to believe. I have absolutely no personal need to "get at you!"
I AM NOT TRYING TO GET YOU! This not personal.
Your statement, "The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died!" indicates that you never really read my post carefully or if you did read carefully, you did not understand the point that I was making.
You seem to want to believe that YOUR experience was superior to mine, Go ahead. That wasn't the reason I was telling you my experience anyway. -
I'm sorry that I bothered because you missed the point entirely and it is a still painful experience for me to recall my father's death, -even after 50 years. I'm sorry that I bothered.
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Post by maryhig on May 24, 2015 4:52:44 GMT -5
The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! I just think you'll never get me, never mind. Curly is right were poles apart! As I said, you haven't lived through what I have, you don't know!
I don't know why you can't just accept that I have faith and believe in God.
Maybe I should go on and on at you about why you don't believe. Because I think it's foolish to think that God doesn't exist and there isn't anything behind the creation of everything in the universe and that it just all appeared! To me that's nonsense! Oh yeah I forgot, there was an explosion from nothing. It just happened! But if that's how you see it. Then ok! I don't! PS just as thought, what kind of fallacy is that, when you believe something can be created from nothing? Maryhig, I have to told and told you, -I am NOT talking about WHAT you believe.
I am talking about HOW, repeat HOW, -people, ALL people, arrive at the conclusions for their beliefs; WHAT method of reasoning are they using to arrive at those conclusions.
It is clearly your right to believe whatever you want to believe. I have absolutely no personal need to "get at you!"
I AM NOT TRYING TO GET YOU! This not personal.
Your statement, "The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died!" indicates that you never really read my post carefully or if you did read carefully, you did not understand the point that I was making.
You seem to want to believe that YOUR experience was superior to mine, Go ahead. That wasn't the reason I was telling you my experience anyway. -
I'm sorry that I bothered because you missed the point entirely and it is a still painful experience for me to recall my father's death, -even after 50 years. I'm sorry that I bothered.
Oh sorry, I thought you were using an example. My fault and I'm sorry about the hurt you experienced! I didn't mean to hurt you!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 24, 2015 5:55:36 GMT -5
Maryhig, I have to told and told you, -I am NOT talking about WHAT you believe.
I am talking about HOW, repeat HOW, -people, ALL people, arrive at the conclusions for their beliefs; WHAT method of reasoning are they using to arrive at those conclusions.
It is clearly your right to believe whatever you want to believe. I have absolutely no personal need to "get at you!"
I AM NOT TRYING TO GET YOU! This not personal.
Your statement, "The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died!" indicates that you never really read my post carefully or if you did read carefully, you did not understand the point that I was making.
You seem to want to believe that YOUR experience was superior to mine, Go ahead. That wasn't the reason I was telling you my experience anyway. -
I'm sorry that I bothered because you missed the point entirely and it is a still painful experience for me to recall my father's death, -even after 50 years. I'm sorry that I bothered.
Oh sorry, I thought you were using an example. My fault and I'm sorry about the hurt you experienced! I didn't mean to hurt you! H ow was the phone ringing, and my feeling that I needed to answer it because I had the feeling that I would hear that my father was dead any different than different from you in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! any
That is why when my sister-in-law told me my father had died, I calmly said "Yes, I know." And I did know.
We processed those those experiences differently.
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Post by maryhig on May 24, 2015 6:06:00 GMT -5
Oh sorry, I thought you were using an example. My fault and I'm sorry about the hurt you experienced! I didn't mean to hurt you! H ow was the phone ringing, and my feeling that I needed to answer it because I had the feeling that I would hear that my father was dead any different than different from you in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! any
That is why when my sister-in-law told me my father had died, I calmly said "Yes, I know." And I did know.
We processed those those experiences differently.
Did you know your father was going to die, we had no idea at all. And it wasn't the middle of the night and it was me who thought to phone, I wasnt receiving a call, it was there middle of the day! If my phone rang in the middle of the night, I would think something bad has happened too! There was no reason for me to think that. I think God guides us in these situations.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 24, 2015 15:50:30 GMT -5
H ow was the phone ringing, and my feeling that I needed to answer it because I had the feeling that I would hear that my father was dead any different than different from you in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! any
That is why when my sister-in-law told me my father had died, I calmly said "Yes, I know." And I did know.
We processed those those experiences differently.
Did you know your father was going to die, we had no idea at all. And it wasn't the middle of the night and it was me who thought to phone, I wasnt receiving a call, it was there middle of the day! If my phone rang in the middle of the night, I would think something bad has happened too! There was no reason for me to think that. I think God guides us in these situations. Did YOU KNOW that your father-in law was going to die from that "feeling" you had? And You believed that GOD was conveying that "feeling" to you.
Did I KNOW that when the phone rang and I had thAT "feeling" my father was dead? While you are so sure that your "feeling" came to you because you believe GOD existS and conveyed that feeling to you.
While even though I was professing and DID also believe in God, I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WAS GOD GIVING ME THAT FEELING!
I found the clues from what I had known which led to my my conclusion while I doubt you even gave one thought to any clues that you might have known and rather took the first one that you wanted to believe any way. Go ahead & ignore
Thus is produced the FALLACY.
(Poorly assumed correlation of two things) (Assumption of cause and effect) (Lack of questioning of premises)
You just go ahead and believe whatever makes you happy. Don't worry about whether your reasoning is faulty. I really don't care
However, I prefer to use the brains I have to think things through in a way that makes sense.
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Post by snow on May 24, 2015 15:52:57 GMT -5
First of all, Maryhig, I am NOT saying that you "lie" of "make things up."
Second, you make a flat out statement that; "if you had seen the things I've seen then you would believe." How can you say such a flat out statement about me? Don't you think that I & others have had similar experiences?
You cite the death of your father-in-law; here is MY experience. Here is MY experience.
One Wed. night during meeting in my father-in- law's home the phone ring. Now I don't know about your meetings but in ours yous simple don't talk on the phone during a meeting. So, the phone was just ignored and let ring until it stopped. I felt uneasy and edged closer to the phone and vowed to myself if it rang again, I was going to answer it.
It rang again. I answered. It was my sister-in-law in tears and said my father had died. I answered, "Yes, I know."
Now, I personally believe that experience of mine was even more conclusive an experience than your own! However, Did I take that experience as infallible proof that God existed? NO! I had had a letter from my father that day. He said that he had got the small garden plow I had wanted at an farm auction. He said he bought it at a very good price, then added in the kind of humor as was his wont, -it was a good price, if he didn't get a cold from the bad weather! I knew he had heart trouble and with all that information (although no cold had even had time to develop) I realized that it all was just a coincident It was NOT any "infallible proof that God existed." (Remember I was a believer, I was "professing" at the time.)
To believe it was proof would have been one of several a logical fallacies:
*Cum Hoc Fallacy (Poorly assumed correlation of two things) *Post Hoc Fallacy (Assumption of cause and effect) *Subjectivist Fallacy (Lack of questioning of premises)
It would have been faulty reasoning on my part to use that kind of thinking. I'm NOT talking about whether you believe or I don't believe something.
I am talking about how people reason things out & sometimes we can use the type of reasoning that is NOT sound! We are also very capable of deceiving ourselves.
The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! I just think you'll never get me, never mind. Curly is right were poles apart! As I said, you haven't lived through what I have, you don't know! I don't know why you can't just accept that I have faith and believe in God. Maybe I should go on and on at you about why you don't believe. Because I think it's foolish to think that God doesn't exist and there isn't anything behind the creation of everything in the universe and that it just all appeared! To me that's nonsense! Oh yeah I forgot, there was an explosion from nothing. It just happened! But if that's how you see it. Then ok! I don't! PS just as thought, what kind of fallacy is that, when you believe something can be created from nothing? For me it's no different to believe God created everything and everything came from nothing. The reason is this. Where did God come from? Nothing? God had to come from nothing. So why not a universe. We know energy can neither be created for destroyed, only transformed. So I have no trouble at all believing everything came from nothing because nothing really isn't 'nothing' if it's energy. The reason for me does not have to be God because that solution just makes me wonder what created God? We all just process things differently, allow coincidence to be proof of God etc. I have had many dreams that foretold the future. I have come to accept them for what they are. I solve lots of problems through dreams. Does that mean God talks to me and tells me things? No. At least that's not my conclusion. You and dmg just have very different ways of viewing the same things. My husband is also an atheist, but he will go to bed mulling over a problem at work and literally get the answer in a dream but he also doesn't attribute this to God. Our brains are amazing things and we are unconscious of more than we know. We absorb everything but not all of it is consciously. Most of the time we do have answers to our questions if we just get quiet enough to allow the wisdom to arise. Most geniuses say their solutions have come 'out of the blue', usually after many days of trying to figure out the solution. They give up go to sleep or just relax and it comes to them like an epiphany. It's quite common actually. Here is an explanation of the Conservation of Energy within a closed system, which the universe is. www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-destroyed/
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Post by maryhig on May 24, 2015 15:59:22 GMT -5
Did you know your father was going to die, we had no idea at all. And it wasn't the middle of the night and it was me who thought to phone, I wasnt receiving a call, it was there middle of the day! If my phone rang in the middle of the night, I would think something bad has happened too! There was no reason for me to think that. I think God guides us in these situations. Did you know your father was going to die, we had no idea at all. And it wasn't the middle of the night and it was me who thought to phone, I wasnt receiving a call, it was there middle of the day! If my phone rang in the middle of the night, I would think something bad has happened too! There was no reason for me to think that. I think God guides us in these situations. Did YOU KNOW that your father-in law was going to die from that "feeling" you had? And You believed that GOD was conveying that "feeling" to you.
Did I KNOW that when the phone rang and I had thAT "feeling" my father was dead? While you are so sure that your "feeling" came to you because you believe GOD existS and conveyed that feeling to you.
While even though I was professing and DID also believe in God, I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WAS GOD GIVING ME THAT FEELING!
I found the clues from what I had known which led to my my conclusion while I doubt you even gave one thought to any clues that you might have known and rather took the first one that you wanted to believe any way.
Thus the FALLACY.
Goa head & ignore (Poorly assumed correlation of two things) (Assumption of cause and effect) (Lack of questioning of premises)
You just go ahead and believe whatever makes you happy. Don't worry about whether your reasoning is faulty. I really don't care
However, I prefer to use the brains I have to think things through in a way that makes sense.
You seem to care an awful lot, because you keep bringing it up! If you don't believe in God ok so be it! But I do!
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Post by maryhig on May 24, 2015 16:12:17 GMT -5
The phone ringing, and you not answering it is a bit different than me in the middle if eating a meal getting a feeling to tell my husband to phone his parents, an hour before his father died! I just think you'll never get me, never mind. Curly is right were poles apart! As I said, you haven't lived through what I have, you don't know! I don't know why you can't just accept that I have faith and believe in God. Maybe I should go on and on at you about why you don't believe. Because I think it's foolish to think that God doesn't exist and there isn't anything behind the creation of everything in the universe and that it just all appeared! To me that's nonsense! Oh yeah I forgot, there was an explosion from nothing. It just happened! But if that's how you see it. Then ok! I don't! PS just as thought, what kind of fallacy is that, when you believe something can be created from nothing? For me it's no different to believe God created everything and everything came from nothing. The reason is this. Where did God come from? Nothing? God had to come from nothing. So why not a universe. We know energy can neither be created for destroyed, only transformed. So I have no trouble at all believing everything came from nothing because nothing really isn't 'nothing' if it's energy. The reason for me does not have to be God because that solution just makes me wonder what created God? We all just process things differently, allow coincidence to be proof of God etc. I have had many dreams that foretold the future. I have come to accept them for what they are. I solve lots of problems through dreams. Does that mean God talks to me and tells me things? No. At least that's not my conclusion. You and dmg just have very different ways of viewing the same things. My husband is also an atheist, but he will go to bed mulling over a problem at work and literally get the answer in a dream but he also doesn't attribute this to God. Our brains are amazing things and we are unconscious of more than we know. We absorb everything but not all of it is consciously. Most of the time we do have answers to our questions if we just get quiet enough to allow the wisdom to arise. Most geniuses say their solutions have come 'out of the blue', usually after many days of trying to figure out the solution. They give up go to sleep or just relax and it comes to them like an epiphany. It's quite common actually. Here is an explanation of the Conservation of Energy within a closed system, which the universe is. www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-destroyed/Snow, it's not as simple as that, it's not just the odd dream or feeling! I've proved he's there in many ways! If you and others wish to be atheists and pick out multiple fallacies and reasoning ok! But I go with my heart not my head, and I go by my faith in the living God! I don't care about things like that. I don't care about how the universe was made. I'm more interested in the creator! I stand in awe at the wonders God has created. And to be honest, regardless of where God has come from is irrelevant to me, it's not for me to know. And i don't think about that, but, it's more realistic to believe in a living God, that a dead big bang! We'll just have to be Chalk and cheese!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 24, 2015 16:23:32 GMT -5
Did YOU KNOW that your father-in law was going to die from that "feeling" you had? And You believed that GOD was conveying that "feeling" to you.
Did I KNOW that when the phone rang and I had thAT "feeling" my father was dead? While you are so sure that your "feeling" came to you because you believe GOD existS and conveyed that feeling to you.
While even though I was professing and DID also believe in God, I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WAS GOD GIVING ME THAT FEELING!
I found the clues from what I had known which led to my my conclusion while I doubt you even gave one thought to any clues that you might have known and rather took the first one that you wanted to believe any way.
Thus the FALLACY.
Goa head & ignore (Poorly assumed correlation of two things) (Assumption of cause and effect) (Lack of questioning of premises)
You just go ahead and believe whatever makes you happy. Don't worry about whether your reasoning is faulty. I really don't care
However, I prefer to use the brains I have to think things through in a way that makes sense.
You seem to care an awful lot, because you keep bringing it up! If you don't believe in God ok so be it! But I do! Why do you keep ignoring that my experience happened when I DID BELIEVE IN GOD?
Yes, I do care a lot about whether people use thoughtful logical reasoning! It is important for the health & well being of society as well as everyone in the world. But since YOU don't seem to care about that I am giving it up as lost cause as far as you are concerned. As I have stated over & over, it has nothing to do with whether one believes in "god" or not. People use that same kind of reasoning in other areas of society,sometime in high places.
It scared some of us no end when you found that Nancy Reagan adhered to astrology predictions and made decisions for her husband then President Ronald Reagan! A man in such a high position that it could affect the whole world.
But don't mind me, just go ahead & believe whatever you are happy with.
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Post by maryhig on May 24, 2015 16:36:38 GMT -5
You seem to care an awful lot, because you keep bringing it up!If you don't believe in God ok so be it! But I do! Yes, I do care a lot about whether people use thoughtful logical reasoning! It is important for the health & well being of society as well as everyone in the world. But since YOU don't seem to care about that I am giving it up as lost cause as far as you are concerned. As I have stated over & over, it has nothing to do with whether one believes in "god" or not. People use that same kind of reasoning in other areas of society, sometime in high places. It scared some of us no end when you found that Nancy Reagon adherred to astrollog and made decisions for her husband President Ronald Reagon Ok! You say you did believe in God, but you don't know where your heart is? Anyone who believes in God knows this?
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Post by emy on May 24, 2015 16:55:29 GMT -5
Did you know your father was going to die, we had no idea at all. And it wasn't the middle of the night and it was me who thought to phone, I wasnt receiving a call, it was there middle of the day! If my phone rang in the middle of the night, I would think something bad has happened too! There was no reason for me to think that. I think God guides us in these situations. Did YOU KNOW that your father-in law was going to die from that "feeling" you had? And You believed that GOD was conveying that "feeling" to you.
Did I KNOW that when the phone rang and I had thAT "feeling" my father was dead? While you are so sure that your "feeling" came to you because you believe GOD existS and conveyed that feeling to you.
While even though I was professing and DID also believe in God, I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WAS GOD GIVING ME THAT FEELING!
You just go ahead and believe whatever makes you happy. Don't worry about whether your reasoning is faulty. I really don't care
However, I prefer to use the brains I have to think things through in a way that makes sense.
believe there is a difference, but unless you ask, I won't take up time explaining. (Parts of dmg post extracted)
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Post by dmmichgood on May 26, 2015 0:52:14 GMT -5
Yes, I do care a lot about whether people use thoughtful logical reasoning! It is important for the health & well being of society as well as everyone in the world. But since YOU don't seem to care about that I am giving it up as lost cause as far as you are concerned. As I have stated over & over, it has nothing to do with whether one believes in "god" or not. People use that same kind of reasoning in other areas of society, sometime in high places. It scared some of us no end when you found that Nancy Reagon adherred to astrollog and made decisions for her husband President Ronald Reagon Ok! You say you did believe in God, but you don't know where your heart is? Anyone who believes in God knows this? Yes, I now where my "heart" is now & I knew where my "heart" was then!
MY "heart" is slightly to the left about midway in my chest and I can feel it beat at about 64 beats per minute which is at the low number for average and it is a great heart beat to have at my age.
Oh, I know what you are referring to: Heart as "the center of emotion, especially as contrasted to the head as the center of the intellect
For myself, I'll go with "my head as "the center for reality." To go with "emotion," as a center for reality exposes people to believe in everything or anything that happens to come down the pike, -not only religions, but every other supernatural or paranormal belief.
Fortune tellers, -aliens from space, -fairies, -elves, -boggarts, -ghosts, etc. etc.
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 2:38:39 GMT -5
Ok! You say you did believe in God, but you don't know where your heart is? Anyone who believes in God knows this? Yes, I now where my "heart" is now & I knew where my "heart" was then!
MY "heart" is slightly to the left about midway in my chest and I can feel it beat at about 64 beats per minute which is at the low number for average and it is a great heart beat to have at my age.
Oh, I know what you are referring to: Heart as "the center of emotion, especially as contrasted to the head as the center of the intellect
For myself, I'll go with "my head as "the center for reality." To go with "emotion," as a center for reality exposes people to believe in everything or anything that happens to come down the pike, -not only religions, but every other supernatural or paranormal belief.
Fortune tellers, -aliens from space, -fairies, -elves, -boggarts, -ghosts, etc. etc.
You asked me what I meant by "heart' I explained it to you, don't you remember?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 26, 2015 4:09:22 GMT -5
Did YOU KNOW that your father-in law was going to die from that "feeling" you had? And You believed that GOD was conveying that "feeling" to you.
Did I KNOW that when the phone rang and I had thAT "feeling" my father was dead? While you are so sure that your "feeling" came to you because you believe GOD existS and conveyed that feeling to you.
While even though I was professing and DID also believe in God, I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WAS GOD GIVING ME THAT FEELING!
You just go ahead and believe whatever makes you happy. Don't worry about whether your reasoning is faulty. I really don't care
However, I prefer to use the brains I have to think things through in a way that makes sense.
believe there is a difference, but unless you ask, I won't take up time explaining. (Parts of dmg post extracted) What do you think the difference is, Emy?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 26, 2015 4:10:38 GMT -5
Yes, I now where my "heart" is now & I knew where my "heart" was then!
MY "heart" is slightly to the left about midway in my chest and I can feel it beat at about 64 beats per minute which is at the low number for average and it is a great heart beat to have at my age.
Oh, I know what you are referring to: Heart as "the center of emotion, especially as contrasted to the head as the center of the intellect
For myself, I'll go with "my head as "the center for reality." To go with "emotion," as a center for reality exposes people to believe in everything or anything that happens to come down the pike, -not only religions, but every other supernatural or paranormal belief.
Fortune tellers, -aliens from space, -fairies, -elves, -boggarts, -ghosts, etc. etc.
You asked me what I meant by "heart' I explained it to you, don't you remember? Perhaps you had better explain it again.
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 4:15:25 GMT -5
You asked me what I meant by "heart' I explained it to you, don't you remember? Perhaps you had better explain it again.
This is silly, I don't want to be like this with you. I'm foolish myself for being like this! I don't want to debate about this anymore. I know you know where your heart is, because I know you love your children and you dearly loved your husband. I can see it in your posts! I'm sorry for going on, that's the wrong side of me!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 26, 2015 4:25:12 GMT -5
Perhaps you had better explain it again.
This is silly, I don't want to be like this with you. I'm foolish myself for being like this! I don't want to debate about this anymore. I know you know where your heart is, because I know you love your children and you dearly loved your husband. I can see it in your posts! I'm sorry for going on, that's the wrong side of me! So be it.
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Post by emy on May 26, 2015 16:50:20 GMT -5
Maybe I don't remember all the details now, but here is what I think is the difference:
Your dad was ill and possibly dying? The call came TO you so there was a prompt to your thinking, especially since calls during meeting are normally unusual.
Maryhig's FIL, was not expected to die - maybe not even sick? Without outside stimulus, something prompted her to suggest to her husband to call his parents. But he didn't, but her FIL died suddenly soon after.
See any difference?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 27, 2015 1:17:59 GMT -5
Maybe I don't remember all the details now, but here is what I think is the difference: Your dad was ill and possibly dying? The call came TO you so there was a prompt to your thinking, especially since calls during meeting are normally unusual. Maryhig's FIL, was not expected to die - maybe not even sick? Without outside stimulus, something prompted her to suggest to her husband to call his parents. But he didn't, but her FIL died suddenly soon after. See any difference? Except that I didn't say my father was ill and expected to die. He just had angina which many people of his age had & many people still have.
They put a nitroglycerin tab under their tongue & it stops the angina and they lives for years. You may know someone who does the same. (These days the nitroglycerin may be a small spray bottle)
I am going to reprint my post
"One Wed. night during meeting in my father-in- law's home the phone ring.
Now I don't know about your meetings but in ours you simple don't talk on the phone during a meeting.
So, the phone was just ignored and let ring until it stopped.
I felt uneasy and edged closer to the phone and vowed to myself if it rang again, I was going to answer it.
It rang again. I answered. It was my sister-in-law in tears and said my father had died. I answered, "Yes, I know."
Now, I personally believe that experience of mine was even more conclusive an experience than your own! However, Did I take that experience as infallible proof that God existed? NO! I had had a letter from my father that day. He said that he had got the small garden plow I had wanted at an farm auction. He said he bought it at a very good price, then added in the kind of humor as was his wont, -it was a good price, if he didn't get a cold from the bad weather! I knew he had heart trouble and with all that information (although no cold had even had time to develop) I realized that it all was just a coincident It was NOT any "infallible proof that God existed."
Now, had I had a mind set like Maryhig's, -I could have easily went with the idea that the reason why I had that "feeling" of uneasiness was because "God" was communicating it to me! Therefore, that was an infallible proof that GOD did indeed exist! But I didn't just pounce on that idea like Maryhig did, -one that would just explain what she wanted to believe anyway!
Because when I critically examined all of the information of that day, I realized the reason for the uneasy feeling come from the total input of information I had that day!
MY OWN MIND was fully capable of causing me to feel uneasy without any input from any "god!"
(And remember, I DID BELIEVE IN GOD AT THAT TIME.)
Does that explain it any better?
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Post by emy on May 27, 2015 17:06:50 GMT -5
Maybe I don't remember all the details now, but here is what I think is the difference: Your dad was ill and possibly dying? The call came TO you so there was a prompt to your thinking, especially since calls during meeting are normally unusual. Maryhig's FIL, was not expected to die - maybe not even sick? Without outside stimulus, something prompted her to suggest to her husband to call his parents. But he didn't, but her FIL died suddenly soon after. See any difference? Except that I didn't say my father was ill and expected to die. He just had angina which many people of his age had & many people still have.
They put a nitroglycerin tab under their tongue & it stops the angina and they lives for years. You may know someone who does the same. (These days the nitroglycerin may be a small spray bottle)
I am going to reprint my post
"One Wed. night during meeting in my father-in- law's home the phone ring.
Now I don't know about your meetings but in ours you simple don't talk on the phone during a meeting.
So, the phone was just ignored and let ring until it stopped.
I felt uneasy and edged closer to the phone and vowed to myself if it rang again, I was going to answer it.
It rang again. I answered. It was my sister-in-law in tears and said my father had died. I answered, "Yes, I know."
Now, I personally believe that experience of mine was even more conclusive an experience than your own! However, Did I take that experience as infallible proof that God existed? NO! I had had a letter from my father that day. He said that he had got the small garden plow I had wanted at an farm auction. He said he bought it at a very good price, then added in the kind of humor as was his wont, -it was a good price, if he didn't get a cold from the bad weather! I knew he had heart trouble and with all that information (although no cold had even had time to develop) I realized that it all was just a coincident It was NOT any "infallible proof that God existed."
Now, had I had a mind set like Maryhig's, -I could have easily went with the idea that the reason why I had that "feeling" of uneasiness was because "God" was communicating it to me! Therefore, that was an infallible proof that GOD did indeed exist! But I didn't just pounce on that idea like Maryhig did, -one that would just explain what she wanted to believe anyway!
Because when I critically examined all of the information of that day, I realized the reason for the uneasy feeling come from the total input of information I had that day!
MY OWN MIND was fully capable of causing me to feel uneasy without any input from any "god!"
(And remember, I DID BELIEVE IN GOD AT THAT TIME.)
Does that explain it any better?
Yes, it does. But why would you have even thought of your father, or felt uneasy about the phone ringing, even to the point of telling your SIL that you already knew he was dead? I'm not a huge believer in uneasy feelings, because i've had several and few have had any basis. I don 't doubt the Spirit does guide some people like that, however. I'm sorry I wasn't more careful in remembering the details you shared.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 12:36:29 GMT -5
Is Review 005 on convention rounds?
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2023 20:24:15 GMT -5
I find it interesting that when review posts something you dont agree with or when a worker in England misquotes sonething at the funeral of his friend you are all, enmasse down on them like a ton of bricks. In contrast when Curlymegee posts something that is batantly wrong " Finally Mr Review, when Graham Thompson spoke about CSA at that special meetings a couple of years ago he had knowledge of a perpetrator of a crime. My question to you is this; Who is the criminal amongst the workers in NZ?no one bothers to correct him although he was clearly just trying to intentionally cause trouble.( not the first time) When Peter Liddle had the grace to admit he had misquoted and to put it right only a couple of people on here even acknowledged he'd done that. This is an anti 2x2 site so I guess we have expect that but at least Review has the courage to come on here and participate. Someone commented that many workers read this site. Really? If they do I doubt its for long and they certainly dont participate- why would they? Its like putting yourself before a firig squad, and everyone is shooting you for every (real or supposid) wrong committed by every worker anywhere in the world. Review is a brave man ( not always polite) but a brave man!! CSA has been committed by a number of male workers in NZ over the years. I also know of one male worker who used to make unwanted advances to male adults as well. All that is required is one of the victims to complain to the police and you would be eating your words. That could happen.
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Jul 2, 2023 5:08:18 GMT -5
CSA has been committed by a number of male workers in NZ over the years. I also know of one male worker who used to make unwanted advances to male adults as well. All that is required is one of the victims to complain to the police and you would be eating your words. That could happen. 'By a number' How many is a number?
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Post by fixit on Jul 2, 2023 5:13:35 GMT -5
'By a number' How many is a number? We'll have to wait and see how many victims come forward now that they are being encouraged to do so.
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Jul 2, 2023 13:01:59 GMT -5
'By a number' How many is a number? We'll have to wait and see how many victims come forward now that they are being encouraged to do so. Curly seemed to know of 'a number' so I was wondering how many he knew of
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