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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2015 13:48:43 GMT -5
Rational can probably tell you a much better way though. He's pretty smart that way. But you'll have to acknowledge he exists so that he can help you with this of course... I will communicate with maryhig using other-worldly methods. For some reason this answer reminded me of a quote someone made about homeopathy. "I just did a tweet to convince everyone about the merits of homeopathy but then I deleted it. It should still work though" Ricky Gervais.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 2, 2015 14:15:13 GMT -5
I don't believe in any paranormal entity. The point is, you suggest that atheists should somehow accept a divine entity into their lives or listen for a divine voice in which they do not believe. But you do not listen for a divine voice from an entity in which you do not believe and I am guessing the idea of letting Ra (King of the Gods) into your heart is not something you consider. You are asking atheists to do something that you would not do - seek an entity in which you do not believe. I am not asking atheist to do anything that they don't want to do because it's up to them what they want to believe, you are given your free will I choose to do the will of the God of love but there is other gods the god of hate the god of money the god of selfishness the god of covertness and so many more that I have to fight every day and I hope seeing Jesus overcoming these things that God will help me to become more like Jesus his son every day. Is the 'god of love' of which you believe, the Christian god? Or is it an idea like the other gods mentioned such as 'god of hate' etc.?
Of course I'm sure you know that these 'other gods' that you refer to, aren't really "gods" in the sense of the different deities worshiped through history & in different parts of the world.
The god that Rational spoke of is an Egyptian god.
Ra was the Egyptian god, "the supreme god and the god of the sun." The early pharaohs claimed to be descended from him.
I feel rather sure that if a worshiper of Ra told you that you should accept Ra into your life & heart, that you would not only think that they were daft but maybe even resent their suggestion!.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 2, 2015 14:48:58 GMT -5
That makes them feel that they are on some kind of equal footing with us. And “they” are not? How so? Do enlighten us.
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Post by rational on Apr 2, 2015 15:02:19 GMT -5
I am not asking atheist to do anything that they don't want to do because it's up to them what they want to believe, you are given your free will I choose to do the will of the God of love but there is other gods the god of hate the god of money the god of selfishness the god of covertness and so many more that I have to fight every day and I hope seeing Jesus overcoming these things that God will help me to become more like Jesus his son every day I misspoke, you did not ask but suggested. Would you listen to a suggestion that you listen to some entity in which you do not believe?
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Post by rational on Apr 2, 2015 15:04:03 GMT -5
I will communicate with maryhig using other-worldly methods. For some reason this answer reminded me of a quote someone made about homeopathy. "I just did a tweet to convince everyone about the merits of homeopathy but then I deleted it. It should still work though" Ricky Gervais. Or the patient who forgot to take their daily dose of a homeopathic medicine and died of an overdose.
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stevo
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by stevo on Apr 2, 2015 16:47:00 GMT -5
I am not asking atheist to do anything that they don't want to do because it's up to them what they want to believe, you are given your free will I choose to do the will of the God of love but there is other gods the god of hate the god of money the god of selfishness the god of covertness and so many more that I have to fight every day and I hope seeing Jesus overcoming these things that God will help me to become more like Jesus his son every day. Is the 'god of love' of which you believe, the Christian god? Or is it an idea like the other gods mentioned such as 'god of hate' etc.?
Of course I'm sure you know that these 'other gods' that you refer to, aren't really "gods" in the sense of the different deities worshiped through history & in different parts of the world.
The god that Rational spoke of is an Egyptian god.
Ra was the Egyptian god, "the supreme god and the god of the sun." The early pharaohs claimed to be descended from him.
I feel rather sure that if a worshiper of Ra told you that you should accept Ra into your life & heart, that you would not only think that they were daft but maybe even resent their suggestion!.
Yes I am talking about the Christian God the father of Jesus Christ.(but he is the God of all if we let him in) The other gods I talk about are not made up if you life depends on it. They are spirits of the devil in which pray on the weak of mind. I pray every day to God to help me to fight these enemies it tells you in Deuteronomy 20 verse 4 For the Lord your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you. That's the enemies in the heart you face everyday
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Post by maryhig on Apr 2, 2015 17:15:40 GMT -5
It's what you do with it, too much it's not good for us to hold on to IMO it's better to be kind with it. If we see the needy help and there are plenty of needy in the world so much so that we don't have to hold on to masses of wealth. It's better to give than to receive! As I said it's the love money that is the root of all evil! But don't you need to receive in order to give? You need to help with whatever you've got, like the poor widow with the two mites, she gave her last, and was more worthy than the rich men in the temple who gave out of their plenty. It's the heart that counts.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2015 17:53:39 GMT -5
Oh yeah, blame it on the devil. Which devil are you talking about? Where have I blamed the devil there? I've said about us letting him in! He's there to destroy us, we have free will. So do we let him in or not? How many times have you gone to do something good and then your minds been changed.? For example, your going down the street and you see a poor man, and you don't have much money but you have a tenner in your pocket. You know he needs help and you've got enough food etc and you don't need it all. You then think to yourself, I'll give him a few quid. It starts at a fiver, then straight away you think I might need that I'll give him 2 quid, then you think he might buy drugs our alcohol with it. I won't give him any. He's been judged and sentenced in 1 minute! The first one is your conscience Gods spirit prodding you to help. In jumps Satan, straight away turning our minds. Then it's our free will, which one do we listen to? Good or evil? Selfishness or kindness. It doesn't matter if it's ten pound or a thousand pound its what the persons hearts like. That person i'm talking about above is me! I've done that. But God has opened my eyes and had helped me take that hardness away. That was one my fights. We all have faults. And only by loving God and following Jesus will they start to disappear! Why does one need a devil? Aren't we told that the thoughts of man are all evil -- or something to that effect? If the same man had asked if you could change a tenner, would you tell him you could? (I really want to know what you'd do.)
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Post by maryhig on Apr 2, 2015 17:58:05 GMT -5
Where have I blamed the devil there? I've said about us letting him in! He's there to destroy us, we have free will. So do we let him in or not? How many times have you gone to do something good and then your minds been changed.? For example, your going down the street and you see a poor man, and you don't have much money but you have a tenner in your pocket. You know he needs help and you've got enough food etc and you don't need it all. You then think to yourself, I'll give him a few quid. It starts at a fiver, then straight away you think I might need that I'll give him 2 quid, then you think he might buy drugs our alcohol with it. I won't give him any. He's been judged and sentenced in 1 minute! The first one is your conscience Gods spirit prodding you to help. In jumps Satan, straight away turning our minds. Then it's our free will, which one do we listen to? Good or evil? Selfishness or kindness. It doesn't matter if it's ten pound or a thousand pound its what the persons hearts like. That person i'm talking about above is me! I've done that. But God has opened my eyes and had helped me take that hardness away. That was one my fights. We all have faults. And only by loving God and following Jesus will they start to disappear! Why does one need a devil? Aren't we told that the thoughts of man are all evil -- or something to that effect? If the same man had asked if you could change a tenner, would you tell him you could? (I really want to know what you'd do.) The thoughts of man are evil because we let Satan into our hearts. I don't know what you mean about the man asking me to change a tenner. The man I'm talking about had no money, what do you mean?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2015 18:01:27 GMT -5
Why does one need a devil? Aren't we told that the thoughts of man are all evil -- or something to that effect? If the same man had asked if you could change a tenner, would you tell him you could? (I really want to know what you'd do.) The thoughts of man are evil because we let Satan into our hearts. Oh, Satan ... that devil. What would Christians do without their Satan? Just pretend some poor looking stranger asked you if you could change a ten dollar bill. What would you say to him?
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Post by bubbles on Apr 2, 2015 20:11:36 GMT -5
The thoughts of man are evil because we let Satan into our hearts. Oh, Satan ... that devil. What would Christians do without their Satan? Just pretend some poor looking stranger asked you if you could change a ten dollar bill. What would you say to him? What would christians do without our satan? It appears you think we look for an excuse? To blame someone? Him? Is this what you imply? Or are you just being plain sarcastic because you can?
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Post by maryhig on Apr 2, 2015 21:45:36 GMT -5
The thoughts of man are evil because we let Satan into our hearts. Oh, Satan ... that devil. What would Christians do without their Satan? Just pretend some poor looking stranger asked you if you could change a ten dollar bill. What would you say to him? I would say, no sorry I can't change a ten dollar bill, because I only have pounds, because I'm in Britain. But can I help you with anything?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2015 22:21:41 GMT -5
Oh, Satan ... that devil. What would Christians do without their Satan? Just pretend some poor looking stranger asked you if you could change a ten dollar bill. What would you say to him? What would christians do without our satan? It appears you think we look for an excuse? To blame someone? Him? Is this what you imply? Well you made it sound like people wouldn't do anything wrong without first of all letting Satan in. Do you or do you not do wrong things just because you're a human being? No, I'm not being sarcastic. I know where the Christian version of Satan originated, and the purpose it has served ever since. Same place the Christian version of hell originated, and it's served the same purpose ever since.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2015 22:31:12 GMT -5
Oh, Satan ... that devil. What would Christians do without their Satan? Just pretend some poor looking stranger asked you if you could change a ten dollar bill. What would you say to him? I would say, no sorry I can't change a ten dollar bill, because I only have pounds, because I'm in Britain. But can I help you with anything? I'm not joking, BTW. The reason they ask if you can "change a bill" is to see if you're naïve enough to let them know whether you're worth the bother of a mugging. I don't help those people. On the other hand, I have invited people who were pleased with a dollar to have a meal with me in a restaurant.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 2, 2015 23:01:00 GMT -5
I would say, no sorry I can't change a ten dollar bill, because I only have pounds, because I'm in Britain. But can I help you with anything? I'm not joking, BTW. The reason they ask if you can "change a bill" is to see if you're naïve enough to let them know whether you're worth the bother of a mugging. I don't help those people. On the other hand, I have invited people who were pleased with a dollar to have a meal with me in a restaurant. I have never heard of that. I think I'd be a bit wary if they were asking for change of a tenner, because most genuine homeless people are grateful for anything you give them most of the time. And wouldn't let you know if they had a tenner lol I like what you said about the restaurant, I tend to help with food etc also. At least you know they're having meal don't you
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Post by bubbles on Apr 2, 2015 23:10:31 GMT -5
What would christians do without our satan? It appears you think we look for an excuse? To blame someone? Him? Is this what you imply? Well you made it sound like people wouldn't do anything wrong without first of all letting Satan in. Do you or do you not do wrong things just because you're a human being? No, I'm not being sarcastic. I know where the Christian version of Satan originated, and the purpose it has served ever since. Same place the Christian version of hell originated, and it's served the same purpose ever since. IMO my war is with the world the flesh and the devil. So 3 things not one. To clarify 'the world' would be things like falling into being tempted with an affluent lifestyle living selfishly. Flesh would be giving in to lusting after many lovers and never being satisfied with one.. (being facitious) Devil would be listening to negative thoughts like ..'you cant do that you are too weak or too old or past it...to ugly etcetc.'
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Post by maryhig on Apr 2, 2015 23:28:56 GMT -5
Well you made it sound like people wouldn't do anything wrong without first of all letting Satan in. Do you or do you not do wrong things just because you're a human being? No, I'm not being sarcastic. I know where the Christian version of Satan originated, and the purpose it has served ever since. Same place the Christian version of hell originated, and it's served the same purpose ever since. IMO my war is with the world the flesh and the devil. So 3 things not one. To clarify 'the world' would be things like falling into being tempted with an affluent lifestyle living selfishly. Flesh would be giving in to lusting after many lovers and never being satisfied with one.. (being facitious) Devil would be listening to negative thoughts like ..'you cant do that you are too weak or too old or past it...to ugly etcetc.' Yes that's right, but I also believe that the devil is behind all of those things. I like the bit about the devil talking to you, evil thoughts are always present only the spirit of God help remove them. We have to try and listen to our conscience don't we! Roman's 7 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 2, 2015 23:40:43 GMT -5
IMO my war is with the world the flesh and the devil. So 3 things not one. To clarify 'the world' would be things like falling into being tempted with an affluent lifestyle living selfishly. Flesh would be giving in to lusting after many lovers and never being satisfied with one.. (being facitious) Devil would be listening to negative thoughts like ..'you cant do that you are too weak or too old or past it...to ugly etcetc.' Yes that's right, but I also believe that the devil is behind all of those things. I like the bit about the devil talking to you, evil thoughts are always present only the spirit of God help remove them. We have to try and listen to our conscience don't we! For me if I want to overcome those things I do it with my will. My mind is strong enough. My emotions are weak. So for example if I am full of lust and have a crazy desire to line up 10 men and have them one after the other I must choose. This actually happened to me once. The crazy rampant feelings to feel loved. It was frightening. Fortunately reason kicked in I just couldnt be bothered driving my sons hotwheels after a couple of drinks at the risk of hitting a curb at high speed. The decision saved me. From myself. Looking back I like to think my angels were protecting my sorry arse. Its called living wild..'sigh' thank god thats past.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 2, 2015 23:50:22 GMT -5
Yes that's right, but I also believe that the devil is behind all of those things. I like the bit about the devil talking to you, evil thoughts are always present only the spirit of God help remove them. We have to try and listen to our conscience don't we! For me if I want to overcome those things I do it with my will. My mind is strong enough. My emotions are weak. So for example if I am full of lust and have a crazy desire to line up 10 men and have them one after the other I must choose. This actually happened to me once. The crazy rampant feelings to feel loved. It was frightening. Fortunately reason kicked in I just couldnt be bothered driving my sons hotwheels after a couple of drinks at the risk of hitting a curb at high speed. The decision saved me. From myself. Looking back I like to think my angels were protecting my sorry arse. Its called living wild..'sigh' thank god thats past. I think a bit different (wouldn't I just) I'm weak, but Christ gives me the strength to overcome just like that reasoning you had. I would see that as the spirit of God guiding me in the right way! If I didn't have that, left to my own devices I dread to know what I would be like. I'm thankful God have me a chance to know him
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Post by snow on Apr 3, 2015 0:03:55 GMT -5
I'm left to my own devices and I don't do anything nasty. So if I can do it with reason and will, I would think everyone else can to and I'd even go as far as to say people just don't give themselves enough credit. They are doing it and giving credit for it to a god and that's something I really don't understand.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 3, 2015 0:04:05 GMT -5
For me if I want to overcome those things I do it with my will. My mind is strong enough. My emotions are weak. So for example if I am full of lust and have a crazy desire to line up 10 men and have them one after the other I must choose. This actually happened to me once. The crazy rampant feelings to feel loved. It was frightening. Fortunately reason kicked in I just couldnt be bothered driving my sons hotwheels after a couple of drinks at the risk of hitting a curb at high speed. The decision saved me. From myself. Looking back I like to think my angels were protecting my sorry arse. Its called living wild..'sigh' thank god thats past. I think a bit different (wouldn't I just) I'm weak, but Christ gives me the strength to overcome just like that reasoning you had. I would see that as the spirit of God guiding me in the right way! If I didn't have that, left to my own devices I dread to know what I would be like. I'm thankful God have me a chance to know him That was during at time where my life was a wreck. I couldnt pray I could only cling. I remember crying out 'help'. It was the darkest hour of my soul.. funnyily it was an atheist friends friendship that gave me some semblance of stability. Which helped me move through those aweful days. Certainly looking back I was being protected.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 3, 2015 0:23:11 GMT -5
I'm not joking, BTW. The reason they ask if you can "change a bill" is to see if you're naïve enough to let them know whether you're worth the bother of a mugging. I don't help those people. On the other hand, I have invited people who were pleased with a dollar to have a meal with me in a restaurant. I have never heard of that. I think I'd be a bit wary if they were asking for change of a tenner, because most genuine homeless people are grateful for anything you give them most of the time. And wouldn't let you know if they had a tenner lol I like what you said about the restaurant, I tend to help with food etc also. At least you know they're having meal don't you It also gives me the opportunity to have a conversation with them, and understand them as human individuals. Hopefully make them feel for a while like they're worthy of some human contact.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 3, 2015 0:25:10 GMT -5
Well you made it sound like people wouldn't do anything wrong without first of all letting Satan in. Do you or do you not do wrong things just because you're a human being? No, I'm not being sarcastic. I know where the Christian version of Satan originated, and the purpose it has served ever since. Same place the Christian version of hell originated, and it's served the same purpose ever since. IMO my war is with the world the flesh and the devil. So 3 things not one. To clarify 'the world' would be things like falling into being tempted with an affluent lifestyle living selfishly. Flesh would be giving in to lusting after many lovers and never being satisfied with one.. (being facitious) Devil would be listening to negative thoughts like ..'you cant do that you are too weak or too old or past it...to ugly etcetc.' Keeps one humble, doesn't it.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 3, 2015 2:10:01 GMT -5
That makes them feel that they are on some kind of equal footing with us. And “they” are not? How so? Do enlighten us. I was answering snow's post when I made that statement so I will give the context in which it was made. Perhaps that will help to understand it."Good points, snow.
"I really do not understand the theist need to categorize an atheist into a religion?" "Yet there seems to be some kind of psychological need to say we do believe in a God and that atheism is a religion. "
" My take on that is that theists just can't imagine that there really are people that don't believe there is a god. Their minds have a psychological need to refute it by calling it a "religion." That makes them feel that they are on some kind of equal footing with us."
I did NOT mean that they are NOT already on equal footing with atheists.
I think that for some reason many theists are so uncomfortable with our position and unable to comprehend what atheism means, that they want to categorize us as a religion, -just another religion the same as their's & other religions.
Each religion can & often does dismiss other religious beliefs that run counter to theirs, -so by putting us in just another box called a "religion" maybe it is easier for them dismiss us in the same way.
I didn't explain it very well, perhaps I still haven't. Does this help explain what I meant?
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Post by maryhig on Apr 3, 2015 3:13:31 GMT -5
I'm left to my own devices and I don't do anything nasty. So if I can do it with reason and will, I would think everyone else can to and I'd even go as far as to say people just don't give themselves enough credit. They are doing it and giving credit for it to a god and that's something I really don't understand. I didn't mean nasty, although I probably wouldn't be as soft as I am now, I mean I wouldn't think about others as much, I'd be more worried about myself. God has showed me this is wrong, to be like this. I would be more selfish etc. We all know our own faults, I have many. But God shows me what's wrong, and helps me put them right. When a man approached Jesus he called him good master. To which Jesus replied "why do you call me good, there's none good but God" Jesus himself didn't even see himself as good. So I'm certainly not! Any good we have in our hearts is from God. We can lick ourselves clean like a cat, but if we really looked into the depths of our hearts at the things we do, then we will see that we are not that nice. James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, And all of 1 Corinthians 13 is a beautiful chapter, the love chapter! There is none good but God!
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Post by bubbles on Apr 3, 2015 6:01:13 GMT -5
I'm left to my own devices and I don't do anything nasty. So if I can do it with reason and will, I would think everyone else can to and I'd even go as far as to say people just don't give themselves enough credit. They are doing it and giving credit for it to a god and that's something I really don't understand. We probably dont give ourselves credit for some things. Its ok to not understand another persons perspective in this instance. Just like its ok for me not to understand how say ratz mind works. Walking library that he is.
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Post by rational on Apr 3, 2015 9:53:56 GMT -5
Oh, Satan ... that devil. What would Christians do without their Satan? Just pretend some poor looking stranger asked you if you could change a ten dollar bill. What would you say to him? What would christians do without our satan? It appears you think we look for an excuse? To blame someone? Him? Is this what you imply? Or are you just being plain sarcastic because you can? Maybe the broader question is why every religion developed has a "good guy" and a "bad guy". The "good guy" is almost always all powerful and can defeat the "bad Guy" but doesn't for some reason. Could it be that there has to be a "bad guy" because terrible things happen and no one wants to blame the "good guy"? If I say that the "good guy" knows everything and is all powerful and then ask why such a loving "good guy" allows children to be abused/tortured/killed the blame always falls on the "bad guy". Theology doesn't work well without the good and bad teams.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 3, 2015 10:21:05 GMT -5
What would christians do without our satan? It appears you think we look for an excuse? To blame someone? Him? Is this what you imply? Or are you just being plain sarcastic because you can? Maybe the broader question is why every religion developed has a "good guy" and a "bad guy". The "good guy" is almost always all powerful and can defeat the "bad Guy" but doesn't for some reason. Could it be that there has to be a "bad guy" because terrible things happen and no one wants to blame the "good guy"? If I say that the "good guy" knows everything and is all powerful and then ask why such a loving "good guy" allows children to be abused/tortured/killed the blame always falls on the "bad guy". Theology doesn't work well without the good and bad teams. Not really most people, blame the good guy! A lot of people that don't believe God exists say if he's there then why does he allow this and that, but they never say it's Satan! Most things happen because of the greed and selfishness of man's heart, and we let Satan in! And he causes havoc in the world! It says in the Bible that the world will wax worse and worse, and you can see it's happening. The whole world is getting more corrupt! If people followed the commandments of Jesus, the world would be a better place! There's a reason why we're here, one day we'll find out why!
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