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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 21:51:11 GMT -5
Heres the thing. Logical thought and reason will never help you arrive at an honest conclusion. There is only one person that can help you understand spiritual things. That person is the holy spirit. Bubbles, I'm not answering for Bob, but it indeed was logical thought and reason that helped me arrive at an honest conclusion about "spiritual" things!
Thats ok. My point is that the bible tells me that unless we are bornagain we wont understand the spirit. Just what it says. By Bobs questions this proves to me scripture is correct with that. Bob is educated in theology or am I mistaken?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 23:47:09 GMT -5
Bubbles, I'm not answering for Bob, but it indeed was logical thought and reason that helped me arrive at an honest conclusion about "spiritual" things!
Thats ok. My point is that the bible tells me that unless we are bornagain we wont understand the spirit. Just what it says. By Bobs questions this proves to me scripture is correct with that. Bob is educated in theology or am I mistaken? No, I am not educated in theology. I am educated in religious studies -- not the same thing.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 1, 2015 0:09:04 GMT -5
It's disgusting to me because I find it offensive, because I love God and Jesus suffered so much. I find it offensive joking about anyone that has been brutally murdered. According to the most common christian belief it was more of a suicide than a murder. The suffering and death related in the bible is the core of christian belief. The ultimate sacrifice, washing with blood to be white as snow, resurrection, etc. Not to me it isn't!
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Post by rational on Apr 1, 2015 0:15:56 GMT -5
According to the most common christian belief it was more of a suicide than a murder. The suffering and death related in the bible is the core of christian belief. The ultimate sacrifice, washing with blood to be white as snow, resurrection, etc. Not to me it isn't! That's why I qualified it as 'the most common' belief.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 1, 2015 0:19:08 GMT -5
Thats ok. My point is that the bible tells me that unless we are bornagain we wont understand the spirit. Just what it says. By Bobs questions this proves to me scripture is correct with that. Bob is educated in theology or am I mistaken? No, I am not educated in theology. I am educated in religious studies -- not the same thing. Oh right. Glad we got that sorted then.
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Apr 1, 2015 1:30:43 GMT -5
You seem to be worried about this point whether someone who does not believe in God could go to heaven. Oh for pity sake, I'm not worried about anything. I just want to know something -- is there something wrong with that? I would too, if the apparent "will" weren't so negotiable. A lot of people do. Where does that belief come from, do you know? Not a good example. First of all, everyone knows exactly to the jot and tittle exactly what the rules are ... it doesn't matter a wit what either the tester or the testee believes. Not so with the will of God -- in fact, anything but. Furthermore, everyone knows perfectly well that there are drivers licenses to be had, what they look like, what they allow you to do and not do, and it's impossible to NOT believe with precision what having a drivers license is like. On the other hand ... you don't know any more about heaven than I do, or anyone else for that matter. Even believers don't know anything more about heaven than I do. The only difference between us is that they believe it's real. Everyone knows about Santa Claus ... except the people who believe in Santa Claus don't know something that the non-believers know. Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Apr 1, 2015 1:42:50 GMT -5
Look at all the famous people in this world with loads of money or business people in high jobs. I would say a lot of them they haven't even got the time to look at people in need A lot of them donate more to charities than most of us will make in a lifetime. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the Pitts, I could go on for a long time listing those that give an awful lot to help the needy in this world. Sure there are some with lots of money that just want to make more, but I think if you will really look, you will see that a lot give huge amounts of money or goods that would not be available if not for them having that kind of money to donate. The bible and it's preaching about some things does more harm then good imo. It just gives one more reason to show prejudice or bias against. Your talking about the super rich who with what they give out they would never miss. Vanity is what they give for if all the rich people gave for the love of God then there would be no poverty in the world
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Post by bubbles on Apr 1, 2015 2:50:05 GMT -5
A lot of them donate more to charities than most of us will make in a lifetime. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the Pitts, I could go on for a long time listing those that give an awful lot to help the needy in this world. Sure there are some with lots of money that just want to make more, but I think if you will really look, you will see that a lot give huge amounts of money or goods that would not be available if not for them having that kind of money to donate. The bible and it's preaching about some things does more harm then good imo. It just gives one more reason to show prejudice or bias against. Your talking about the super rich who with what they give out they would never miss. Vanity is what they give for if all the rich people gave for the love of God then there would be no poverty in the world The super rich dont bother me. Its the wealth in churches. If churches cashed up helped widows and orphans there would be a massive decrease in poverty. I know someone who is a young enterpreneaur. This person is building wealth to have the freedom to do what he wants to do. He tells me that having wealth brings freedom. He goes to seminars and has been serious about setting financial goals and completing them. Hes achieving it too. Not long ago I was told that the wealthy give it is very important to them because what you give out comes back to you. Ive been telling my friend about the importance of giving as a christian for some time now. To me being rich isnt a curse. Poverty is a curse. I dont want to be poor ever again. I hated to open my fridge and no food there. I hated having to ask I even stole an egg of my flatmate once. It was a very humiliating experience. Should we be judging the rich?
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 1, 2015 2:57:34 GMT -5
Oh for pity sake, I'm not worried about anything. I just want to know something -- is there something wrong with that? I would too, if the apparent "will" weren't so negotiable. A lot of people do. Where does that belief come from, do you know? Not a good example. First of all, everyone knows exactly to the jot and tittle exactly what the rules are ... it doesn't matter a wit what either the tester or the testee believes. Not so with the will of God -- in fact, anything but. Furthermore, everyone knows perfectly well that there are drivers licenses to be had, what they look like, what they allow you to do and not do, and it's impossible to NOT believe with precision what having a drivers license is like. On the other hand ... you don't know any more about heaven than I do, or anyone else for that matter. Even believers don't know anything more about heaven than I do. The only difference between us is that they believe it's real. Everyone knows about Santa Claus ... except the people who believe in Santa Claus don't know something that the non-believers know. Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test "unless you learn of the things of God, you will not know who he is or what he is, if you don't listen to the things of God" What a great example of circular reasoning!
Sorry, stevo. Just couldn't pass that one up.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 1, 2015 4:07:59 GMT -5
Oh for pity sake, I'm not worried about anything. I just want to know something -- is there something wrong with that? I would too, if the apparent "will" weren't so negotiable. A lot of people do. Where does that belief come from, do you know? Not a good example. First of all, everyone knows exactly to the jot and tittle exactly what the rules are ... it doesn't matter a wit what either the tester or the testee believes. Not so with the will of God -- in fact, anything but. Furthermore, everyone knows perfectly well that there are drivers licenses to be had, what they look like, what they allow you to do and not do, and it's impossible to NOT believe with precision what having a drivers license is like. On the other hand ... you don't know any more about heaven than I do, or anyone else for that matter. Even believers don't know anything more about heaven than I do. The only difference between us is that they believe it's real. Everyone knows about Santa Claus ... except the people who believe in Santa Claus don't know something that the non-believers know. Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test So what do you think you know about god that I don't?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 1, 2015 4:15:57 GMT -5
A lot of them donate more to charities than most of us will make in a lifetime. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the Pitts, I could go on for a long time listing those that give an awful lot to help the needy in this world. Sure there are some with lots of money that just want to make more, but I think if you will really look, you will see that a lot give huge amounts of money or goods that would not be available if not for them having that kind of money to donate. The bible and it's preaching about some things does more harm then good imo. It just gives one more reason to show prejudice or bias against. Your talking about the super rich who with what they give out they would never miss. Vanity is what they give for if all the rich people gave for the love of God then there would be no poverty in the world There's a reason why they invented the word "if". But the poor can be just as vain as the rich. When Mother Teresa arrived at the Pearly Gates Saint Peter asked her why she spent her life the way she did. She said, "To assure me a place in heaven with God." Saint Paul answered, "Sorry. Wrong reason."
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Post by ellie on Apr 1, 2015 6:52:01 GMT -5
Two men, both of whom amassed a considerable fortune in business, have lived decidedly different lifestyles. Person A is devoutly Christian, attends church regularly, and re-invests most of his wealth in his business, but now that he is retired (early) spends most of his time racing yachts. His pleasure yacht is worth well over $1 billion. Person B is an atheist/agnostic, and now that he has retired has sold all his shares, set up a multi-billion dollar foundation and spends much of his time organizing the foundation's efforts to tackle the world's diseases and improve the standard of education around the world. It strikes me that according to conventional theology, person A has a better than even chance of entering heaven, and person B, given that he remains an atheist/ agnostic, will roast in Hell eternally. How is this just, and how does this accord with the parable of the talents? I can’t see any one else commenting like this in the thread so here goes: What if we interpret the parable of the talents differently to the conventional interpretation? Maybe the master is not a representation of Jesus but is in fact as the last servant suggests a bad master. Probably a man who taxes or gathers grain or land or whatnot from the poor and in the process makes himself richer and the poor poorer. This master then acts unjustly towards the servant who didn't participate in the greedy scheme. The separation of the sheep and the goats follows the talents parable so one could look at that as a more final judgment on the persons like Person A who don’t appear to care for, the hungry thirsty, homeless, sick etc. Looking at the parable like this would mean Person A would be the one roasting. Justice !!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 7:48:15 GMT -5
Two men, both of whom amassed a considerable fortune in business, have lived decidedly different lifestyles. Person A is devoutly Christian, attends church regularly, and re-invests most of his wealth in his business, but now that he is retired (early) spends most of his time racing yachts. His pleasure yacht is worth well over $1 billion. Person B is an atheist/agnostic, and now that he has retired has sold all his shares, set up a multi-billion dollar foundation and spends much of his time organizing the foundation's efforts to tackle the world's diseases and improve the standard of education around the world. It strikes me that according to conventional theology, person A has a better than even chance of entering heaven, and person B, given that he remains an atheist/ agnostic, will roast in Hell eternally. How is this just, and how does this accord with the parable of the talents? I can’t see any one else commenting like this in the thread so here goes: What if we interpret the parable of the talents differently to the conventional interpretation? Maybe the master is not a representation of Jesus but is in fact as the last servant suggests a bad master. Probably a man who taxes or gathers grain or land or whatnot from the poor and in the process makes himself richer and the poor poorer. This master then acts unjustly towards the servant who didn't participate in the greedy scheme. The separation of the sheep and the goats follows the talents parable so one could look at that as a more final judgment on the persons like Person A who don’t appear to care for, the hungry thirsty, homeless, sick etc. Looking at the parable like this would mean Person A would be the one roasting. Justice !!!! Ummmmmm! Very interesting Ellie, I never thought of it like that, you probably have something there. However I am not sure if we should lean to our own understanding on this particular occasion.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2015 10:22:55 GMT -5
Sorry I thought u were bob..was flyinf in and out between cooking for the masses..joke. Sometimes I do think there may be a god attached. Been watching vikings lately and back then everyone had a god of some sort. Back then before it became apparent most things can be explained without believing in a supernatural being, many people had different Gods. I do not have a god that I believe in. Consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes I wish I did. But I don't. I don't understand why just because you do believe in God, you feel it's alright to say I do? You don't believe in Zeus or Thor I imagine, and neither do I. I also do not believe in Allah, Jehovah, or any of the other thousands of gods out there that people believe in. So if you can comfortably not believe in Allah or Zeus, why is it so hard to understand why I don't believe in any of them?
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2015 10:25:20 GMT -5
A lot of them donate more to charities than most of us will make in a lifetime. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the Pitts, I could go on for a long time listing those that give an awful lot to help the needy in this world. Sure there are some with lots of money that just want to make more, but I think if you will really look, you will see that a lot give huge amounts of money or goods that would not be available if not for them having that kind of money to donate. The bible and it's preaching about some things does more harm then good imo. It just gives one more reason to show prejudice or bias against. Your talking about the super rich who with what they give out they would never miss. Vanity is what they give for if all the rich people gave for the love of God then there would be no poverty in the world I don't agree.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2015 10:27:27 GMT -5
Your talking about the super rich who with what they give out they would never miss. Vanity is what they give for if all the rich people gave for the love of God then there would be no poverty in the world There's a reason why they invented the word "if". But the poor can be just as vain as the rich. When Mother Teresa arrived at the Pearly Gates Saint Peter asked her why she spent her life the way she did. She said, "To assure me a place in heaven with God." Saint Paul answered, "Sorry. Wrong reason." Yes, some people are pretty proud of being humble and poor. They feel they are superior to those who they judge to not be those things.
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Apr 1, 2015 11:56:10 GMT -5
Your talking about the super rich who with what they give out they would never miss. Vanity is what they give for if all the rich people gave for the love of God then there would be no poverty in the world The super rich dont bother me. Its the wealth in churches. If churches cashed up helped widows and orphans there would be a massive decrease in poverty. I know someone who is a young enterpreneaur. This person is building wealth to have the freedom to do what he wants to do. He tells me that having wealth brings freedom. He goes to seminars and has been serious about setting financial goals and completing them. Hes achieving it too. Not long ago I was told that the wealthy give it is very important to them because what you give out comes back to you. Ive been telling my friend about the importance of giving as a christian for some time now. To me being rich isnt a curse. Poverty is a curse. I dont want to be poor ever again. I hated to open my fridge and no food there. I hated having to ask I even stole an egg of my flatmate once. It was a very humiliating experience. Should we be judging the rich? That's good bubbles and I know I worked for a company that had a food bank and I had to get food from the big companies and manufactors to feed small organisations that needed food and some of the people I meet had not eaten for days. Yet it was so hard to get that food that would have even gone to waste, the big companies said that if we give the food away we would lose money because people would rely on food banks and would stop buying from them. So I can see what your saying but you can see how I feel about big companies with wealth
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Post by bubbles on Apr 1, 2015 12:11:42 GMT -5
Sorry I thought u were bob..was flyinf in and out between cooking for the masses..joke. Sometimes I do think there may be a god attached. Been watching vikings lately and back then everyone had a god of some sort. Back then before it became apparent most things can be explained without believing in a supernatural being, many people had different Gods. I do not have a god that I believe in. Consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes I wish I did. But I don't. I don't understand why just because you do believe in God, you feel it's alright to say I do? You don't believe in Zeus or Thor I imagine, and neither do I. I also do not believe in Allah, Jehovah, or any of the other thousands of gods out there that people believe in. So if you can comfortably not believe in Allah or Zeus, why is it so hard to understand why I don't believe in any of them? Our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us. Whether we know it or not. I read somewhere the atheist movement is becoming like a religion. I thought you were more agnostic than atheist. If I have offended you. I am sorry Last night I watched Exodus the movie. Moses and Ramses. I tried to imagine living in that time.
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Apr 1, 2015 12:42:50 GMT -5
Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test So what do you think you know about god that I don't? From what I read on these threads is, Gods spirit is in people but you don't seem to listen to them and try to twist words instead of hearing them trying to answer your questions, sorry if am coming across wrong to you and lm sure you have a good heart but if somebody tries to tell something to me I listen then I would ponder what they say, if God is in it then you will know the truth.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 1, 2015 16:23:31 GMT -5
Our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us. Whether we know it or not. I read somewhere the atheist movement is becoming like a religion. Yeah. Me too. None of us are exempt from the "Hallelujah, I have found the Truth" posturing. That includes me. At the same time, it does not exclude anyone.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2015 17:27:19 GMT -5
Back then before it became apparent most things can be explained without believing in a supernatural being, many people had different Gods. I do not have a god that I believe in. Consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes I wish I did. But I don't. I don't understand why just because you do believe in God, you feel it's alright to say I do? You don't believe in Zeus or Thor I imagine, and neither do I. I also do not believe in Allah, Jehovah, or any of the other thousands of gods out there that people believe in. So if you can comfortably not believe in Allah or Zeus, why is it so hard to understand why I don't believe in any of them? Our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us. Whether we know it or not. I read somewhere the atheist movement is becoming like a religion. I thought you were more agnostic than atheist. If I have offended you. I am sorry Last night I watched Exodus the movie. Moses and Ramses. I tried to imagine living in that time. I am more inclined towards there being no such thing as a God. I really do not understand the theist need to categorize an atheist into a religion? None of us are the same in very many ways. The only thing we have in common is we don't believe there is a God. That's it. Yet there seems to be some kind of psychological need to say we do believe in a God and that atheism is a religion. How can it be when there is no creed, no doctrine, no agreement really other than there is no God? Why is it so important to believe that we do believe in a God even though we don't say we do? This is a question in general to all theists that do this, not just you Bubbles. You have not offended me at all just so you know, but you have raised a huge question in my mind as to why so many need us to believe in a God. I don't get it. Why is believing in a God important? Why should I believe in a God to be liked or respected? I am the same as everyone else on here except I don't attribute anything to a god. I do not hold with the idea that our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us, whether we no it or not. That is putting something on me that clearly is not true for me. That might be your opinion, but it's not a fact, at least not for me and many like me. I understand what Rational means about presenting spiritual beliefs as facts. I have no problem when they are presented as beliefs or opinions, we are all entitled to those things. What I do not understand is why it's okay to say something that is a belief is factual?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 1, 2015 17:29:10 GMT -5
So what do you think you know about god that I don't? From what I read on these threads is, No no. I asked what YOU (not the others, but YOU) know about god's will that I don't know? Most of the others can't tell me, or won't tell me. I already knew that's what a lot of people on here believe -- I understood that 60 years ago. But like the above question that YOU didn't answer -- that's the kind of answers I get a lot. If someone is going to insist on something like "god's will", I have no idea what that person thinks god's will is. Some people think it's blowing up abortion clinics -- I don't. I ask questions to find out what people mean, not to belittle them. So now you can ponder what exactly you believe god's will is and let me know. That would be quite cool, actually, because that's the kind of thing we don't get answers to on here, or most other places either. And since you mentioned its importance, I expected you to have an idea what it is.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 1, 2015 17:46:48 GMT -5
Our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us. Whether we know it or not. I read somewhere the atheist movement is becoming like a religion. I thought you were more agnostic than atheist. If I have offended you. I am sorry Last night I watched Exodus the movie. Moses and Ramses. I tried to imagine living in that time. I am more inclined towards there being no such thing as a God. I really do not understand the theist need to categorize an atheist into a religion? None of us are the same in very many ways. The only thing we have in common is we don't believe there is a God. That's it. Yet there seems to be some kind of psychological need to say we do believe in a God and that atheism is a religion. How can it be when there is no creed, no doctrine, no agreement really other than there is no God? Why is it so important to believe that we do believe in a God even though we don't say we do? This is a question in general to all theists that do this, not just you Bubbles. You have not offended me at all just so you know, but you have raised a huge question in my mind as to why so many need us to believe in a God. I don't get it. Why is believing in a God important? Why should I believe in a God to be liked or respected? I am the same as everyone else on here except I don't attribute anything to a god. I do not hold with the idea that our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us, whether we no it or not. That is putting something on me that clearly is not true for me. That might be your opinion, but it's not a fact, at least not for me and many like me. I understand what Rational means about presenting spiritual beliefs as facts. I have no problem when they are presented as beliefs or opinions, we are all entitled to those things. What I do not understand is why it's okay to say something that is a belief is factual? Its not important for me to believe that there is a god of the atheists at all. Seriously why would I care? I like and respect you for who you are. No strings attached. The reason I like you primarily is because you display kindness and patience. I will try and use correct wording. I know im coming from a totally different perspective. . My belief is that being spirit we also abide and move through the spirit world. Some christians are intercessors and prayer warriors. Over a number of yrs when I was in church leadership it became evident that I was an intercessor. Without getting in too deep. There are verses about 'principlalities and powers spirits of wickedness in high places. I was part of a prayer team involved in praying ahead for the cities we would go and minister to in and around the pacific. Part of the role of intercession is working with gifts of revelation. You become sensitive to spiritual climates over cities towns families. Eg:have you ever been somewhere and its felt dark or heavy or the atmosphere has been light and free. It is based on those experiences that I make some comments that wont find agreement with many. Ive said this so that you understand me. Its not a topic I care to 'discuss'.
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Post by rational on Apr 1, 2015 18:10:45 GMT -5
Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test Step back a bit and think of it this way: Do you try to listen to the things the Flying Spaghetti Monster says? Of course not, you do not believe the FSM exists so why would you listen? No one listens to all the things they do not believe in to see what they might have to say.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 1, 2015 18:27:30 GMT -5
Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test Step back a bit and think of it this way: Do you try to listen to the things the Flying Spaghetti Monster says? Of course not, you do not believe the FSM exists so why would you listen? No one listens to all the things they do not believe in to see what they might have to say. And... so why do you continue to engage with people who express confidence in something that has no more meaning to you than the Flying Spaghetti Monster has to most people? Why do you continue to not only listen but to engage? Why has this kind of dialog not fallen off YOUR radar screen in the same way as Zues or Thor or any other (obsolete) kind of conception of a deity has for most people in this day and age?
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Apr 1, 2015 18:45:16 GMT -5
From what I read on these threads is, No no. I asked what YOU (not the others, but YOU) know about god's will that I don't know? Most of the others can't tell me, or won't tell me. I already knew that's what a lot of people on here believe -- I understood that 60 years ago. But like the above question that YOU didn't answer -- that's the kind of answers I get a lot. If someone is going to insist on something like "god's will", I have no idea what that person thinks god's will is. Some people think it's blowing up abortion clinics -- I don't. I ask questions to find out what people mean, not to belittle them. So now you can ponder what exactly you believe god's will is and let me know. That would be quite cool, actually, because that's the kind of thing we don't get answers to on here, or most other places either. And since you mentioned its importance, I expected you to have an idea what it is. Gods will is to love your God with all you heart,mind soul and strength and your neighbour as yourself. Take the Lords pray, Thy kingdom come, that's the spirit in the heart, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven that mean now this day till the end, which is not easy as the devil is with you putting stumbling blocks in the way. But with the help of God we can overcome this. Jesus did this that's who I will follow I may fall in the process but as a good boxer does they get up and fight another day
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Post by maryhig on Apr 1, 2015 18:45:35 GMT -5
Sorry Bob I was just trying to give you a simple meaning using a worldly thing to show you that unless you learn of the things of God you will not know who he is or what he is if you don't listen to the things of God then how do you expect to get through the test Step back a bit and think of it this way: Do you try to listen to the things the Flying Spaghetti Monster says? Of course not, you do not believe the FSM exists so why would you listen? No one listens to all the things they do not believe in to see what they might have to say. Does that mean I don't have to listen to you then? only joking!
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2015 19:52:54 GMT -5
I am more inclined towards there being no such thing as a God. I really do not understand the theist need to categorize an atheist into a religion? None of us are the same in very many ways. The only thing we have in common is we don't believe there is a God. That's it. Yet there seems to be some kind of psychological need to say we do believe in a God and that atheism is a religion. How can it be when there is no creed, no doctrine, no agreement really other than there is no God? Why is it so important to believe that we do believe in a God even though we don't say we do? This is a question in general to all theists that do this, not just you Bubbles. You have not offended me at all just so you know, but you have raised a huge question in my mind as to why so many need us to believe in a God. I don't get it. Why is believing in a God important? Why should I believe in a God to be liked or respected? I am the same as everyone else on here except I don't attribute anything to a god. I do not hold with the idea that our lives are affected by the spiritual world around us, whether we no it or not. That is putting something on me that clearly is not true for me. That might be your opinion, but it's not a fact, at least not for me and many like me. I understand what Rational means about presenting spiritual beliefs as facts. I have no problem when they are presented as beliefs or opinions, we are all entitled to those things. What I do not understand is why it's okay to say something that is a belief is factual? Its not important for me to believe that there is a god of the atheists at all. Seriously why would I care? I like and respect you for who you are. No strings attached. The reason I like you primarily is because you display kindness and patience. I will try and use correct wording. I know im coming from a totally different perspective. . My belief is that being spirit we also abide and move through the spirit world. Some christians are intercessors and prayer warriors. Over a number of yrs when I was in church leadership it became evident that I was an intercessor. Without getting in too deep. There are verses about 'principlalities and powers spirits of wickedness in high places. I was part of a prayer team involved in praying ahead for the cities we would go and minister to in and around the pacific. Part of the role of intercession is working with gifts of revelation. You become sensitive to spiritual climates over cities towns families. Eg:have you ever been somewhere and its felt dark or heavy or the atmosphere has been light and free. It is based on those experiences that I make some comments that wont find agreement with many. Ive said this so that you understand me. Its not a topic I care to 'discuss'. Thank you bubbles for the explanation. I just always wonder what it's about when people get upset when other people don't believe in God. If you are an atheist, you get called some pretty awful things and really we are no different from anyone else. We just don't believe there is a god. So thanks for clarifying.
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