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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 18:42:47 GMT -5
I don't think this makes a lot of sense. I would think the more money you have the more you can help others and no one else has to help you. It seems this concept is just another area that people can judge others by. If you have lots of money, well then you're a bad person that has given in to temptation and you love money. Look at all the famous people in this world with loads of money or business people in high jobs. I would say a lot of them they haven't even got the time to look at people in need But what's your argument? You know that you're prompting someone to say that not all people with wads of money ignore poor people. Or are you contemplating giving away everything you have acquired to improve your status with the Lord?
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 18:52:37 GMT -5
Look at all the famous people in this world with loads of money or business people in high jobs. I would say a lot of them they haven't even got the time to look at people in need But what's your argument? You know that you're prompting someone to say that not all people with wads of money ignore poor people. Or are you contemplating giving away everything you have acquired to improve your status with the Lord? You could look at it differently, that there would be less poor people if all who are wealthy in the world got rid of their wads of money and give it to the poor? Just a thought! Right I'm off to bed!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 18:53:06 GMT -5
I didn't tell you it was. I merely told you what it said in the bible. And you already know what it says in the bible. You've read it. However what you appear to be seeking is an interpretation of what it says in the bible. And you can interpret it just as well as I or anyone else. So you get to decide. That's the beauty of the bible. The believer can interpret it in any way they like. So you can tell us now. What does happen to the virtuous atheist when he dies? Matt10 I don't know for sure. That's why I'm asking. It seems like most people don't know any more about this than I do. Ok. Just to clear this up. You know what it says about atheists in the bible. It doesn't say anything about atheists in the bible. But you still insist on asking what happens to virtuous atheists after death according to the bible even though it doesn't say anything about atheists in the bible? Have I got that right? Matt10
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 18:57:04 GMT -5
You could try reading' walking by faith' on the publish his deeds thread. How I came to be strong in faith was after being baptised in the holy spirit. Everything changed for me. Since then it has been just that. I walk by faith daily. There were about 4yrs when I went through the darkest hours of my soul and went a bit awol even then I clung to the lord. Did something physically change at the time of your baptism? I went from a lukewarm christian to having a passion to hear from god myself. Amongst a cluster of other things I dont feel inclined to comment on.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 31, 2015 19:01:28 GMT -5
I'm coming to the conclusion that most of this kind of talk from Christians is not really what they believe but thoughts that just roll around in their mind -- questions that they haven't answered for themselves, but resent the fact that others are more interested in knowing the answers than they are. All this preaching by "Christians" about "KNOWING" they are saved, and then when asked about it .... they don't know. Bob I do know, I've proved God is there, I know because he's showed me. I'm not a liar, I'm too afraid to lie about that! I've had infallible proof! I'm coming to the conclusion that most of this kind of talk from Christians is not really what they believe but thoughts that just roll around in their mind -- questions that they haven't answered for themselves, but resent the fact that others are more interested in knowing the answers than they are. All this preaching by "Christians" about "KNOWING" they are saved, and then when asked about it .... they don't know. Bob I do know, I've proved God is there, I know because he's showed me. I'm not a liar, I'm too afraid to lie about that! I've had infallible proof! I don't believe that anyone believes that you are a liar, Maryhig.
Never-the-less, many Christians say that they have 'proved God is there because he's showed them' also that, 'they have 'infallible proof,'' however, they never are able to show that infallible proof; infallible meaning incapable of error.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 19:01:48 GMT -5
I know all that. No one seems to get what I'm interested in knowing. Assuming there is a heaven and God has something to do with letting people in -- what does someone think are the chances of the second man (the righteous one) being surprised by ending up in heaven -- even though he didn't think there was such a place? You seem to be worried about this point whether someone who does not believe in God could go to heaven. Oh for pity sake, I'm not worried about anything. I just want to know something -- is there something wrong with that? I would too, if the apparent "will" weren't so negotiable. A lot of people do. Where does that belief come from, do you know? Not a good example. First of all, everyone knows exactly to the jot and tittle exactly what the rules are ... it doesn't matter a wit what either the tester or the testee believes. Not so with the will of God -- in fact, anything but. Furthermore, everyone knows perfectly well that there are drivers licenses to be had, what they look like, what they allow you to do and not do, and it's impossible to NOT believe with precision what having a drivers license is like. On the other hand ... you don't know any more about heaven than I do, or anyone else for that matter. Even believers don't know anything more about heaven than I do. The only difference between us is that they believe it's real. Everyone knows about Santa Claus ... except the people who believe in Santa Claus don't know something that the non-believers know.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 19:02:56 GMT -5
But what's your argument? You know that you're prompting someone to say that not all people with wads of money ignore poor people. Or are you contemplating giving away everything you have acquired to improve your status with the Lord? You could look at it differently, that there would be less poor people if all who are wealthy in the world got rid of their wads of money and give it to the poor? Just a thought! Right I'm off to bed! Well sure. Was that an original thought? Sleep tight.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 19:03:27 GMT -5
The Bible says nothing about atheists? Atheists are unbelievers, right? Check a concordance for what the Bible says about unbelief. (Did you have a senior moment?) In the Bible, unbelievers are those who do not believe in the God of the Jews or the God of the Christians -- they are not atheists. Atheism was not recognized at the time the Bible was written. Such unbelievers just believed in other gods. Who is the god of the atheists IYO?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 19:08:57 GMT -5
I don't know for sure. That's why I'm asking. It seems like most people don't know any more about this than I do. Ok. Just to clear this up. You know what it says about atheists in the bible. It doesn't say anything about atheists in the bible. But you still insist on asking what happens to virtuous atheists after death according to the bible even though it doesn't say anything about atheists in the bible? Have I got that right? Matt10 Yeah, you got that right. It's like this. It doesn't say anything in the Bible about exercising one's franchise? That doesn't make it a silly question to ask if someone (anyone) has any thoughts on whether there are spiritual/moral/eternal consequences to how one treats his franchise? I'm getting the impression that some people find it offensive that someone proposed that perhaps an atheist might get into heaven.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 19:09:32 GMT -5
In the Bible, unbelievers are those who do not believe in the God of the Jews or the God of the Christians -- they are not atheists. Atheism was not recognized at the time the Bible was written. Such unbelievers just believed in other gods. Who is the god of the atheists IYO? The tooth fairy.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 19:11:20 GMT -5
Did something physically change at the time of your baptism? I went from a lukewarm christian to having a passion to hear from god myself. Amongst a cluster of other things I dont feel inclined to comment on. Well that doesn't help me understand.
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 19:39:43 GMT -5
I don't think this makes a lot of sense. I would think the more money you have the more you can help others and no one else has to help you. It seems this concept is just another area that people can judge others by. If you have lots of money, well then you're a bad person that has given in to temptation and you love money. Look at all the famous people in this world with loads of money or business people in high jobs. I would say a lot of them they haven't even got the time to look at people in need A lot of them donate more to charities than most of us will make in a lifetime. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the Pitts, I could go on for a long time listing those that give an awful lot to help the needy in this world. Sure there are some with lots of money that just want to make more, but I think if you will really look, you will see that a lot give huge amounts of money or goods that would not be available if not for them having that kind of money to donate. The bible and it's preaching about some things does more harm then good imo. It just gives one more reason to show prejudice or bias against.
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 19:40:43 GMT -5
It's disgusting to me because I find it offensive, because I love God and Jesus suffered so much. I find it offensive joking about anyone that has been brutally murdered. According to the most common christian belief it was more of a suicide than a murder. The suffering and death related in the bible is the core of christian belief. The ultimate sacrifice, washing with blood to be white as snow, resurrection, etc.
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 19:53:50 GMT -5
In the Bible, unbelievers are those who do not believe in the God of the Jews or the God of the Christians -- they are not atheists. Atheism was not recognized at the time the Bible was written. Such unbelievers just believed in other gods. Who is the god of the atheists IYO? Since I know you know atheists don't have a god, I have to wonder if you're just trying to provoke?
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 19:57:29 GMT -5
I went from a lukewarm christian to having a passion to hear from god myself. Amongst a cluster of other things I dont feel inclined to comment on. Well that doesn't help me understand. Heres the thing. Logical thought and reason will never help you arrive at an honest conclusion. There is only one person that can help you understand spiritual things. That person is the holy spirit.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 19:59:16 GMT -5
Who is the god of the atheists IYO? Since I know you know atheists don't have a god, I have to wonder if you're just trying Snow I apologise I thought I was answering bob. Il delete the post.
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Post by emy on Mar 31, 2015 20:02:31 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread. Since it should be clear that the atheist could not know God in the way Jesus intended in John 17, that's the answer for him. The man with the yacht? Although he may not be exhibiting some "Christian characteristics," it's not revealed what his relationship with God is. We don't know what else he uses his yacht for or what he does with any money he wins. Not that it's all about what one does with his money...
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 20:02:58 GMT -5
Since I know you know atheists don't have a god, I have to wonder if you're just trying to provoke? Lol... dont wonder any longer. Of course I am. Just playing your game! Truthfully I do wonder what god they serve. Unconsciously of course.. Why do you wonder that?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 20:03:50 GMT -5
Since I know you know atheists don't have a god, I have to wonder if you're just trying to provoke? Lol... dont wonder any longer. Of course I am. Just playing your game! Truthfully I do wonder what god they serve. Unconsciously of course.. Some people just aren't co-dependent Bubbles.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 20:07:02 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread. Since it should be clear that the atheist could not know God in the way Jesus intended, that's the answer for him. The man with the yacht? Although he may not be exhibiting some "Christian characteristics," it's not revealed what his relationship with God is. We don't know what else he uses his yacht for or what he does with any money he wins. Not that it's all about what one does with his money... So he's probably going to heaven?
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 31, 2015 20:07:21 GMT -5
Since I know you know atheists don't have a god, I have to wonder if you're just trying to provoke? Lol... dont wonder any longer. Of course I am. Just playing your game! Truthfully I do wonder what god they serve. Unconsciously of course.. Oh, Bubbles! Can't you take my word for it that I don't "serve any god?" Consciously or un-consciously?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 20:08:31 GMT -5
Lol... dont wonder any longer. Of course I am. Just playing your game! Truthfully I do wonder what god they serve. Unconsciously of course.. Oh, Bubbles! Can't you take my word for it that I don't "serve any god?" Consciously or un-consciously?
Oh my gosh, Have you given up on the tooth fairy?
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Post by emy on Mar 31, 2015 20:18:21 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread. Since it should be clear that the atheist could not know God in the way Jesus intended, that's the answer for him. The man with the yacht? Although he may not be exhibiting some "Christian characteristics," it's not revealed what his relationship with God is. We don't know what else he uses his yacht for or what he does with any money he wins. Not that it's all about what one does with his money... So he's probably going to heaven? Read more carefully: Some of us really do believe God is the only judge and Jesus intercedes. That leaves very little room for 'probably' either. If I knew this man personally, MAYBE I could sense the Spirit in him, but maybe not. So back to let God judge.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 20:37:17 GMT -5
So he's probably going to heaven? Read more carefully: Some of us really do believe God is the only judge and Jesus intercedes. That leaves very little room for 'probably' either. If I knew this man personally, MAYBE I could sense the Spirit in him, but maybe not. So back to let God judge. If his yacht hadn't cost a billion dollars I might give you a break on that. Personally, I believe it is patently immoral for someone to keep from his fellow man more money than he can possibly spend in his lifetime (on himself) -- especially if he's one of these guys who has more money than some nations' GDP. The money really isn't his -- it's the currency that his government has provided for the citizens to do business with, and such people are simply depriving the citizens of the country of the ability to do business.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 31, 2015 21:11:57 GMT -5
Oh, Bubbles! Can't you take my word for it that I don't "serve any god?" Consciously or un-consciously?
Oh my gosh, Have you given up on the tooth fairy? Sadly, yes.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 21:19:29 GMT -5
Lol... dont wonder any longer. Of course I am. Just playing your game! Truthfully I do wonder what god they serve. Unconsciously of course.. Why do you wonder that? Sorry I thought u were bob..was flyinf in and out between cooking for the masses..joke. Sometimes I do think there may be a god attached. Been watching vikings lately and back then everyone had a god of some sort.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 21:21:25 GMT -5
Oh, Bubbles! Can't you take my word for it that I don't "serve any god?" Consciously or un-consciously?
Oh my gosh, Have you given up on the tooth fairy? Dmich I was stirring bob up..didnt see snow had written it.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 31, 2015 21:37:27 GMT -5
Well that doesn't help me understand. Heres the thing. Logical thought and reason will never help you arrive at an honest conclusion. There is only one person that can help you understand spiritual things. That person is the holy spirit. Bubbles, I'm not answering for Bob, but it indeed was logical thought and reason that helped me arrive at an honest conclusion about "spiritual" things!
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