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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2015 23:32:23 GMT -5
I know that on this forum you say that you are a "Christian," however, I don't KNOW that you are.
Well, I guess there's a lot we don't know. If I'm not, you'll just have to "prove it"! I have no desire to prove anything about you, one way or the other.
I don't know you .
My point was that many people self identify as "Christian" but that doesn't always say a lot as to how they live.
I did think that it was a back handed slap that you made establishing a thread & commenting on another Christian church.
Not only was it deprecating concerning another Christian church but sounded somewhat smug & self righteous.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2015 23:42:37 GMT -5
dmm....How do we know you are an atheist just because you say you are? A person who states that they don't believe in a god or gods, the explanation of atheist, -doesn't really have a lot to prove, do they?
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 0:02:48 GMT -5
So why question Elizabeth when she says she is a Christian?
Saying you are an atheist does not say a lot about how you live either. And if you claim to be an atheist then how can you comment on other religions? Kind of back handed isn't it and makes you sound smug and self righteous. I wonder why you decide to focus on Elizabeth when everyone on this board posts similar to what she does.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 0:04:40 GMT -5
Back of people, let there be peace, much more important. Remember my best mate, my Dad,told me shortly before his death,"The things that seemed important before, are not inportant now."
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 0:14:51 GMT -5
Things that are not important to you might be important to someone else. Let's not think that everyone else thinks the same as us. We are all unique and wonderfully made.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 0:19:16 GMT -5
So why question Elizabeth when she says she is a Christian? Saying you are an atheist does not say a lot about how you live either. And if you claim to be an atheist they how can you comment on other religions? Kind of back handed isn't it and makes you sound sung and self righteous. I wonder why you decide to pick on Elizabeth when everyone on this board posts similar to what she does. Not really, saying I don't have anything to prove by not believing in a god is different than someone who says they are a Christian, Hindu or any other religion.
I tell what I don't believe, shouldn't they need to explain what they do believe?
Although you have a point in what I said about "as to how they live." I should have said, "in what they believe."
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 0:26:42 GMT -5
I did change the word 'pick on' to 'focus on' but you were too fast and pressed quote before I had changed it.
I think as a believer we need to have an even better idea of why we believe not only the religion we choose but also why we choose one church over another. If you do not believe then the later is a none issue.
Personally, I believe we are all free to state why we believe what we do or do not believe.
Elizabeth is more open than most of us with her photo and name. A face says a lot and she has a lovely face.
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 0:30:46 GMT -5
These people claim to be a copy of the New Testament church living as the Christians in the NT. Everyone has to wear the same clothes. No one leaves the community. They go to school, live and work on the commune. Their every move is censored. What they say on their website and what they do are two different things. No one is allowed to leave the commune. Gloriavale: Known by some outsiders as the "Cooperites", the group rejects this name and members refer to themselves only as Christians. Members of the community live a fundamentalist Christian life in accordance with their interpretation of the teachings of the New Testament. The community attempts to uphold the example of the first Christian church in Jerusalem (Acts 2:41-47) for its principles of sharing and holding all things in common. Like most cults the leader has been jailed for sexual abuse. The founder's son left and reported it. For his son Phil, Neville Cooper was a controlling, manipulative, sexual deviant who set out to dominate every aspect of his life – from who he could marry to what he named his children www.gloriavale.org.nz/tvnz.co.nz/gloriavale-a-world-apart/6012087www.religionnewsblog.com/23430/gloriavale
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 25, 2015 0:33:24 GMT -5
Well, I guess there's a lot we don't know. If I'm not, you'll just have to "prove it"! I have no desire to prove anything about you, one way or the other.
I don't know you .
My point was that many people self identify as "Christian" but that doesn't always say a lot as to how they live.
I did think that it was a back handed slap that you made establishing a thread & commenting on another Christian church.
Not only was it deprecating concerning another Christian church but sounded somewhat smug & self righteous.
Pardon me, D, but I thought this entire forum was about "commenting on another Christian church". My thread pertains exactly to that subject matter, commenting on the beliefs of the two-by-twos, especially in relation to other churches. Not sure why you think I'm off topic. You've mad it fairly obvious you disagree with most things I post, that's fine, but not sure why you keep feeling the need to go on the attack.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 25, 2015 0:41:57 GMT -5
These people claim to be a copy of the New Testament church living as the Christians in the NT. Everyone has to wear the same clothes. No one leaves the community with school etc held on the commune. Their every move is censored. What they say on their website and what they do are two different things. No one is allowed to leave the commune. Like most cults the leader has been jailed for sexual abuse. The founder's son left and reported it. www.gloriavale.org.nz/Mary, I think I saw a documentary on this group a couple of years ago? That photo is positively scary, and should raise anyone's alarm bells. One very disturbing quote from their website:... where there is perfect obedience to God, complete unity of thought, no self-will, no argument or strife, and no sin.Sounds like a very strong position against any form of questioning or arguing. Certainly a way to keep all members from ever questioning anything or they will be automatically accused of being wilful, causing arguments and strife, and therefore sinning? Looks very much like striving for perfection to obtain salvation?
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 0:44:41 GMT -5
I've added a lot more to the post. Striving for perfection or mind control?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 0:48:48 GMT -5
I did change the word 'pick on' to 'focus on' but you were too fast and pressed quote before I had changed it. I think as a believer we need to have an even better idea of why we believe not only the religion we choose but also why we choose one church over another. If you do not believe then the later is a none issue. Personally, I believe we are all free to state why we believe what we do or do not believe. Elizabeth is more open than most of us with her photo and name. A face says a lot and she has a lovely face. ehum.. quite open about what church she now believes is the right one? Following her lead to find a church, I found about 6 in my immediate area. CHURCH OF CHRISTA Brief History of the Church of Christ
The Original Church
"The Church of Christ traces its history back to the original organization that was established by Jesus Christ in the first century AD. That original Church had Jesus Christ as its head and twelve Apostles that had the oversight of the Church organization on the earth. T The ancient New Testament Church taught the pure, simple gospel of Christ. This included faith in Christ as our Savior, repentance from sins, baptism by immersion, laying on of hands for the reception of the Holy Ghost, for the healing of the sick, for the blessing of children, and for ordination to the ministry, resurrection of the dead and an eternal judgment according to our works in this life (Hebrews 6:1-2). The ministry in the ancient New Testament Church was called by Divine revelation (Hebrews 5:4) and was not paid a salary by the church, but labored in various trades to support themselves (Acts 20:33-35). The original Church grew and continued under the authority of the ministry and the doctrines taught originally by Jesus Christ. There was to be only twelve Apostles at any given time in history, therefore as the original Apostles died, others were called by God to serve as Apostles in their place (Acts 13:1-3, 14:14)." (cont.)
Now doesn't that sound a lot like another church that we know, the 2x2 church?
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 0:57:00 GMT -5
Yes there are a number of churches out there that claim they are the one leading back to Christ. The Church of Christ is one and is not accepted by mainstream Christianity.
Mainstream churches do not claim to be the true church leading back to Christ. Why don't you ask Elizabeth what church she a lines her beliefs with. Maybe she will say, may she will not. I a line mine with mainstream Baptist but would be happy in most mainstream and a number of Pentecostal churches. Now there are many churches that call themselves Baptist but they are not the Mainstream Baptist. Mainstream meaning Billy Graham style.
Warning one: avoid a church which says it is the one leading back to Christ.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 25, 2015 1:01:55 GMT -5
D, I have NO idea what you are on about. Following my lead to find a church? Which I now believe is the right one?!? Where is this coming from?
Have I ever stated anywhere that I now believe any particular church to be superior? You're totally barking up the wrong tree, my friend. And I certainly don't attend whatever it is you've just posted.
Mary - thanks for the other links you posted. I'm really interested in reading Phil's book (the son). Heartbreaking about his wife.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 1:02:07 GMT -5
I have no desire to prove anything about you, one way or the other.
I don't know you .
My point was that many people self identify as "Christian" but that doesn't always say a lot as to how they live.
I did think that it was a back handed slap that you made establishing a thread & commenting on another Christian church.
Not only was it deprecating concerning another Christian church but sounded somewhat smug & self righteous.
Pardon me, D, but I thought this entire forum was about "commenting on another Christian church". My thread pertains exactly to that subject matter, commenting on the beliefs of the two-by-twos, especially in relation to other churches. Not sure why you think I'm off topic. You've made it fairly obvious you disagree with most things I post, that's fine, but not sure why you keep feeling the need to go on the attack. Not attacking, just trying to understand why you believe the church that you are in now is so much different & superior to others. (including the 2x2's)
Following your lead to find a church, I found about 6 in my immediate area, Church of ChristCHURCH OF CHRIST
A Brief History of the Church of Christ
The Original Church"The Church of Christ traces its history back to the original organization that was established by Jesus Christ in the first century AD. That original Church had Jesus Christ as its head and twelve Apostles that had the oversight of the Church organization on the earth. T The ancient New Testament Church taught the pure, simple gospel of Christ. This included faith in Christ as our Savior, repentance from sins, baptism by immersion, laying on of hands for the reception of the Holy Ghost, for the healing of the sick, for the blessing of children, and for ordination to the ministry, resurrection of the dead and an eternal judgment according to our works in this life (Hebrews 6:1-2). The ministry in the ancient New Testament Church was called by Divine revelation (Hebrews 5:4) and was not paid a salary by the church, but labored in various trades to support themselves (Acts 20:33-35). The original Church grew and continued under the authority of the ministry and the doctrines taught originally by Jesus Christ. There was to be only twelve Apostles at any given time in history, therefore as the original Apostles died, others were called by God to serve as Apostles in their place (Acts 13:1-3, 14:14)." (cont.)Doesn't that sound a lot like another church that we all know, and you disparage, the 2x2 church?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 1:03:41 GMT -5
Just because they do some things the same as the two by twos doesn't make them "in the spirit". The two by two also do the same crappy stuff as mainstream churches. And are just as self righteous and defensive about it. In fact if you think of the Muslims and the Christians believing in the same God. They have both done bad things in the name of religion. People who try to tell other people how to worship and make judgements are way off. It's a personal thing only. There is no damn door into heaven saying Pentecostal, Mormon , Muslim, budism two by twos. I mean that is if you join a group you must be right - crazy. . There are two groups believers and non believers not two by twos and the others.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 1:24:28 GMT -5
D, I have NO idea what you are on about. Following my lead to find a church? Which I now believe is the right one?!? Where is this coming from? Have I ever stated anywhere that I now believe any particular church to be superior? You're totally barking up the wrong tree, my friend. And I certainly don't attend whatever it is you've just posted. Mary - thanks for the other links you posted. I'm really interested in reading Phil's book (the son). Heartbreaking about his wife. Barking up the wrong tree??. Following my lead to find a church?
Really? Here is your post: Post by elizabethcoleman on 2 hours agovirgo Avatar 3 hours ago virgo said:elizabethcoleman Avatar 23 Jan 2015 at 22:06 elizabethcoleman said:Although we have no organization larger than the local church with no world headquarters, we have thousands of sister congregations all over the world. Click here to locate an assembly of Christians near you! www.bible.ca/seek-church.htm I followed this lead you gave, www.bible.ca/seek-church.htm which lead me to at least 6 Church of Christ churches in my area, then simply googled the Church of Christ history & beliefs.
Easy.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 1:37:52 GMT -5
Yes there are a number of churches out there that claim they are the one leading back to Christ. The Church of Christ is one and is not accepted by mainstream Christianity. Mainstream churches do not claim to be the true church leading back to Christ. Why don't you ask Elizabeth what church she a lines her beliefs with. Maybe she will say, may she will not. I a line mine with mainstream Baptist but would be happy in most mainstream and a number of Pentecostal churches. Now there are many churches that call themselves Baptist but they are not the Mainstream Baptist. Mainstream meaning Billy Graham style. Warning one: avoid a church which says it is the one leading back to Christ. Mary! Have you ever listened to Emo, the golden gate bridge www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDmeqSzvIFs
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jan 25, 2015 3:18:38 GMT -5
D, I have NO idea what you are on about. Following my lead to find a church? Which I now believe is the right one?!? Where is this coming from? Have I ever stated anywhere that I now believe any particular church to be superior? You're totally barking up the wrong tree, my friend. And I certainly don't attend whatever it is you've just posted. Mary - thanks for the other links you posted. I'm really interested in reading Phil's book (the son). Heartbreaking about his wife. Barking up the wrong tree??. Following my lead to find a church?
Really? Here is your post: Post by elizabethcoleman on 2 hours agovirgo Avatar 3 hours ago virgo said:elizabethcoleman Avatar 23 Jan 2015 at 22:06 elizabethcoleman said:Although we have no organization larger than the local church with no world headquarters, we have thousands of sister congregations all over the world. Click here to locate an assembly of Christians near you! www.bible.ca/seek-church.htm I followed this lead you gave, www.bible.ca/seek-church.htm which lead me to at least 6 Church of Christ churches in my area, then simply googled the Church of Christ history & beliefs.
Easy.
Good grief, this is a major misunderstanding. I was commenting that this particular group (www.bible.ca) - whoever they are - used almost identical terminology to the 2x2s, and have an almost identical mindset. That was my whole point, and the point of this thread. What do I believe? I accept anyone as a fellow Christian who accepts Jesus as his/her Lord and Saviour and is trusting only in Him (not their church or good works) for their salvation. Period. I don't care where they go to church. I don't care what they wear. I don't care who made the building they worship in. You'll find this is the case for most true Christians. Even the two-by-twos. I know two-by-twos who are genuine Christians because they are trusting in Christ, not their particular way of worship. They also accept me as a Christian. I have no problem with accepting two-by-twos on this basis; it is always the system I have an issue with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 4:26:52 GMT -5
Lord have mercy on us. It seems like people spend more time arguing about religion and who is right and who is wrong than actually serving God in Spirit and In Truth. Believers, please, please look after your own salvation with fear an trembling, God will not ask us about anyone else but ourselves. Quit bickering about the scriptures and seek to have a personal relationship with God. He will direct our paths if we allow Him to. If you have a personal relationship with God, it probably would not even matter which particular church you assemble yourselves in the name of Jesus if your hearts are right and your focus is on Jesus and His teachings, just earnestly meditate with a purpose. Never-the-less, partaker, "arguing about religion and who is right and who is wrong" is the very reason that there are 1000's of "Christian" denominations in world!
In fact they wasn't even just "one" church of "believers in Jesus" right from the beginning!
That so-called "personal relationship with God" is what?
Different than every one elses "personal relationship with God?"
I have heard that expression, "personal relationship with God," only in the last 50 years .
Why is that so?
There has been such a rapid proliferation of fundamentalist churches.
I believe that people used the term, "personal relationship with God," to try & make themselves believe that they were different from others.
But is it not a fact that people ARE different from others in many ways? They don't have to use the term "personal relationship with God" to believe or prove that. I do believe that some people have a closer walk with God than others in their spiritual life irrespective of whatever church they are in. That closer walk may be due to a more personal relationship with God.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 4:50:48 GMT -5
Now Mary, see how my flippant comment earlier on has developed? Discussiing, arguing, bickering? Or whatever? LOL. Just being flippant again, at least we have the freedom to do so which is a great privilege.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 25, 2015 7:50:34 GMT -5
I'm a Christian, D. But you knew that. I know that on this forum you say that you are a "Christian," however, I don't KNOW that you are.
If it helps, I will verify/witness that Elizabeth Coleman is a Christian. I've read her testimony covering her entire life to date...which will soon be a published book.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 14:16:43 GMT -5
Barking up the wrong tree??. Following my lead to find a church?
Really? Here is your post: Post by elizabethcoleman on 2 hours agovirgo Avatar 3 hours ago virgo said:elizabethcoleman Avatar 23 Jan 2015 at 22:06 elizabethcoleman said:Although we have no organization larger than the local church with no world headquarters, we have thousands of sister congregations all over the world. Click here to locate an assembly of Christians near you! www.bible.ca/seek-church.htm I followed this lead you gave, www.bible.ca/seek-church.htm which lead me to at least 6 Church of Christ churches in my area, then simply googled the Church of Christ history & beliefs.
Easy.
Good grief, this is a major misunderstanding. I was commenting that this particular group (www.bible.ca) - whoever they are - used almost identical terminology to the 2x2s, and have an almost identical mindset. That was my whole point, and the point of this thread. What do I believe? I accept anyone as a fellow Christian who accepts Jesus as his/her Lord and Saviour and is trusting only in Him (not their church or good works) for their salvation. Period. I don't care where they go to church. I don't care what they wear. I don't care who made the building they worship in. You'll find this is the case for most true Christians. Even the two-by-twos. I know two-by-twos who are genuine Christians because they are trusting in Christ, not their particular way of worship. They also accept me as a Christian. I have no problem with accepting two-by-twos on this basis; it is always the system I have an issue with. Oops, I am sorry.
I didn't realize that you were quoting from somewhere else when you were addressing Virgo's post.
Mea culpa.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 14:43:19 GMT -5
Yes, Bert, I know you believe that no one is a Christian unless they do everything exactly according to the workers. I get that. Yes, I know you believe the workers do everything according to the NT which is what makes them right. Did you notice this is exactly what "The Church you can read about in the Bible" (posted above) believes also? Sheesh... you get it??? I don't think so. Regarding your original post, and subsequent commentary, it is interesting to see how you prejudice so colors your interpretations. One wonders how you'll look at your statements some years from now.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2015 15:21:26 GMT -5
. Yes, Bert, I know you believe that no one is a Christian unless they do everything exactly according to the workers. I get that. Yes, I know you believe the workers do everything according to the NT which is what makes them right. Did you notice this is exactly what "The Church you can read about in the Bible" (posted above) believes also? Sheesh... you get it??? I don't think so. Regarding your original post, and subsequent commentary, it is interesting to see how you prejudice so colors your interpretations. One wonders how you'll look at your statements some years from now. Ettu, Elizabeth Coleman's original post was taken verbatim from a site on google: The Church you read about in the Bible!When you trace what church it concerns, you will find it is from the Church of Christ.
I still don't understand exactly what she is conveying in her thread.
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 15:38:16 GMT -5
Dmm.... it was clear that Elizabeth was not posting about her own church. Some even criticised her for posting negatively about another church. She posted some information from the website of the church she was referring to. At no time did she say she attended that church. To the contrary - so stop being contrary.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 15:52:17 GMT -5
....If it helps, I will verify/witness that Elizabeth Coleman is a Christian. Oh my, so judgmental! As you know, 2x2's sometimes are heard to say that God is the judge, and of course that is true. Well, having been born of the water and the spirit, and now the son of God, Jesus Christ being my brother, God my father, and we being as one... I can tell you that Elizabeth Coleman is still a victim of her emotions and the teachings of men.
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Post by Greg on Jan 25, 2015 16:14:54 GMT -5
....If it helps, I will verify/witness that Elizabeth Coleman is a Christian. Oh my, so judgmental! As you know, 2x2's sometimes are heard to say that God is the judge, and of course that is true. Well, having been born of the water and the spirit, and now the son of God, Jesus Christ being my brother, God my father, and we being as one... I can tell you that Elizabeth Coleman is still a victim of her emotions and the teachings of men. Are you a 2x2, ettu? I think there have been three or four confessed or professed 2x2's on tmb: Nathan B, bert, Tom, and possibly one other.
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