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Post by dmmichgood on May 7, 2014 18:51:08 GMT -5
.. Yes, it does take faith to trust in the Spirit I am guessing about the same amount of faith it takes to believe in yourself and your own moral compass. That would leave me with NO amount of faith to believe in myself and my own moral compass, because I certainly have NO "faith to trust the Spirit" for any moral compass.
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Post by xna on May 7, 2014 19:15:49 GMT -5
i don't think its a sin to covet heavenly things such as being exalted in heaven...its all part of Gods promise to us for heavenly things to be added to us once we reach heaven... What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?" - Socrates
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Post by rational on May 7, 2014 20:26:39 GMT -5
Wally, if you want to let people run all over you and make life here on earth difficult for you in hopes of getting some "pie in the sky" reward in an after life-you go right ahead! :D Since there is absolutely no evidence that an after life even exists (except in your own ideas) I'll pass on that one & settle on what I know in the here & now. :D Pie in the sky is the PITS! Perhaps it is the gift that keeps on giving, the gift of false hope.
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Post by snow on May 7, 2014 22:29:58 GMT -5
i'm not sure if i am following your question but i think that the goal would be to be exalted later so be humble now to achieve that... But a truly humble person would not WANT to be exalted! It would not be a goal to aim for! Only a secretly proud person wearing a false cloak of humility would want to be exalted. Gene, maybe you need to be truly humble to understand this concept? However, promising this in heaven was a really good ploy to get people to do what they wanted on this side of heaven.
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Post by Annan on May 8, 2014 8:07:06 GMT -5
But a truly humble person would not WANT to be exalted! It would not be a goal to aim for! Only a secretly proud person wearing a false cloak of humility would want to be exalted. Gene, maybe you need to be truly humble to understand this concept? However, promising this in heaven was a really good ploy to get people to do what they wanted on this side of heaven. Christianity appeals to the poor and downtrodden. Promising them a better life exalted over those that have more or those they feel keep them down, is very appealing.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2014 11:13:05 GMT -5
Gene, maybe you need to be truly humble to understand this concept? However, promising this in heaven was a really good ploy to get people to do what they wanted on this side of heaven. Christianity appeals to the poor and downtrodden. Promising them a better life exalted over those that have more or those they feel keep them down, is very appealing. In some ways this is probably true for a lot of people. Those who never had much in this life that they wanted, are told they will get it in the next life and those that had it in this life will not have it in the next life. Quite compelling I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 12:10:56 GMT -5
i don't think its a sin to covet heavenly things such as being exalted in heaven...its all part of Gods promise to us for heavenly things to be added to us once we reach heaven... What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. 1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
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Post by Gene on May 8, 2014 18:10:45 GMT -5
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. 1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Excellent! Covet (eagerly desire) the best gifts, like prophesy, healing, miracles, teaching, etc -- but better than all of that is.... LOVE! Nowhere in all of that do I see anything about coveting a higher position in the hierarchy of heaven.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on May 14, 2014 13:23:38 GMT -5
i'm not sure if i am following your question but i think that the goal would be to be exalted later so be humble now to achieve that... But a truly humble person would not WANT to be exalted! It would not be a goal to aim for! Only a secretly proud person wearing a false cloak of humility would want to be exalted. What came to me when I thought about the 'exaltation' resulting from humility is that perhaps it is a type of exaltation different than what our human concept of being exalted really is- When we think of being exalted our minds often default to the kind of glory and exaltation we know in the flesh with our human minds. Maybe the type of exaltation God gives to the humble is not anything like that, but something other-worldly. But aside from being exalted as a result of being humble is that humility OPENS DOORS-just as gratitude unblocks energy as sharon was describing in another thread? Pride is like a blocker and keeps a lot of doors CLOSED. One of the most common doors that is opened as a result of being humble is the door to HELP. [as a proud person has a difficult time asking for help and may have a difficult time accepting help.] I think of the things a person does when they are humble as opposed to the types of things a person does when they are proud and I get a pretty good picture of contrast there. Yes, I believe the Lord keeps His promises in saying one will be exalted as a result of being humble, but the 'exaltation' of the humble may not be what a proud person wants, nor can enter into. So, when the proud person becomes humble, maybe it is they no longer even think in terms of being exalted anymore-yet their new-found humility causes them RISE ABOVE in a whole new way.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on May 14, 2014 13:40:21 GMT -5
1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. 1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Excellent! Covet (eagerly desire) the best gifts, like prophesy, healing, miracles, teaching, etc -- but better than all of that is.... LOVE! Nowhere in all of that do I see anything about coveting a higher position in the hierarchy of heaven. Perhaps the glory and exaltation promised to the humble and lowly has nothing to do with hierarchy in relation to others.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 15:01:35 GMT -5
Annan's Amazing Quote - " My understanding is that the things I wear, the words I speak, where I spend my Sunday mornings, how I wear my hair, who I associate with, how I'm entertained and my sex life are not matters of salvation."What you wear is proscribed by scripture. Are your words anything like the "filthy talk of the wicked""? Do you " forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is." ? Your hair also gets a mention - both men and women. Along with exhortations regards the company we keep. Entertainment gets a belting in the bible, too. And don't get me reaching for every book in the bible regards sex behavior. Frankly Annan, if you have this mentality, why bother with the notion of salvation? You wouldn't like it there anyhow. I actually said that, Bert. Thanks for recognizing it as amazing. I could describe to you what I wear on a daily basis, give you examples of how I assemble together with other believers regularly, how I wear my hair, the kind of people I hang out with, what kind of movies I watch, and tell you all the details of my sex life. I don't really think that's necessary. Could you tell me if I'm saved or not based on those things? Now that would be interesting... Scripture tells me that as a fallen human being, I can do nothing good on my own and all my righteous acts are as filthy rags. But I am made righteous by the blood of Jesus. Which saved me. So then I do good works as a result of the Holy Spirit empowering my life, motivated out of a love for God and a desire to obey Him. I believe that doing those things makes Him happy and that I will receive a reward for them...but in no means do those works SAVE me. Only one thing could save me and that was the blood of Jesus. I look forward to being in Heaven with all those who placed their faith and trust in Jesus to save them...where we will be worshipping Him and singing praises to Him constantly. You completely missed the point I was trying to make with my post. But that's ok...we can debate this all day long. But only God can actually reveal the truth to someone. You don't know me and I don't know you. All I can say is I believe that God has renewed my focus lately, taking it off of what myself and putting it on Him instead. I have more peace, confidence, assurance and joy than I ever have before. It has completely changed the way I see people and treat people. And I now look forward to seeing Jesus face to face rather than fearing death or the day of His return. I hope that as a result of your personal relationship with Jesus your Savior that you can say the same....that your life has changed for the better.
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Post by christiansburg on Jun 6, 2014 8:25:30 GMT -5
Wally, if you want to let people run all over you and make life here on earth difficult for you in hopes of getting some "pie in the sky" reward in an after life-you go right ahead! Since there is absolutely no evidence that an after life even exists (except in your own ideas) I'll pass on that one & settle on what I know in the here & now. Pie in the sky is the PITS! Perhaps it is the gift that keeps on giving, the gift of false hope. I place my faith on life after death. I don't need evidence for that.
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Post by rational on Jun 6, 2014 9:53:10 GMT -5
Pie in the sky is the PITS! Perhaps it is the gift that keeps on giving, the gift of false hope. I place my faith on life after death. I don't need evidence for that. That is wonderful. I hope it provides you with the comfort you are seeking.
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Post by Gene on Jun 6, 2014 20:39:21 GMT -5
I place my faith on life after death. I don't need evidence for that. That is wonderful. I hope it provides you with the comfort you are seeking. Rats, I can believe you truly hope it provides CB with the comfort he is seeking. But is it honest of you to say it is wonderful? Maybe you need to define "wonderful" for us?
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Post by rational on Jun 6, 2014 22:27:31 GMT -5
That is wonderful. I hope it provides you with the comfort you are seeking. Rats, I can believe you truly hope it provides CB with the comfort he is seeking. But is it honest of you to say it is wonderful? Maybe you need to define "wonderful" for us? :) wonderful - inspiring delight, pleasure, or admiration. I admire people who can accept concepts which are of the utmost importance to them solely on faith without a single bit of logical or material support.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 6, 2014 23:44:28 GMT -5
Gene, maybe you need to be truly humble to understand this concept? However, promising this in heaven was a really good ploy to get people to do what they wanted on this side of heaven. Christianity appeals to the poor and downtrodden. Promising them a better life exalted over those that have more or those they feel keep them down, is very appealing. Yep, the opiate of the masses.
ehum...., the thought just stuck me!
The "mass" is also AN "opiate!" - Really it is!
Especially so in Catholic dominated countries where the clergy and the wealthy hold hands and support one another to keep the poor and downtrodden down by promising them a better life in an after-life.
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