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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 22:38:14 GMT -5
- some people seem to be more comfortable following rules rather than letting the Spirit lead and guide .. I wonder how many times the spirit leading and guiding a person leads in a direction with which the person agrees. i've a couple of times been lead in a direction i didn't want to go in but as of late its been agreeable...
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 0:12:07 GMT -5
- some people seem to be more comfortable following rules rather than letting the Spirit lead and guide .. This is likely a result of NO faith in what they "claim" to have faith in. In other words these people like to talk about Jesus and their faith in Jesus but in reality they don't really believe in his words. At least this is my personal view. Half of what Jesus said was rules. Half of what Paul said was rules. Half of what Peter said was rules.
FindingTruth, why do you have a problem with this?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 2:17:24 GMT -5
nope. they've gone completely stockingless... Barefeet and thongs (flip-flops for Americans, that is) no less!!!!! Careful...THONG is a bad word! fwiw-bop
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Post by rational on May 6, 2014 7:05:21 GMT -5
I wonder how many times the spirit leading and guiding a person leads in a direction with which the person agrees. i've a couple of times been lead in a direction i didn't want to go in but as of late its been agreeable... This sounds like a case of you knowing what the right thing to do is but you would rather not do it. You find a bag of money and no one sees you pick it up. You can turn it in to the authorities or you can keep it. Whatever you decide to so, it is what you want to do no matter how you try to convince yourself you are being led by some magical being. If you did the right thing, take credit for being an ethical human who does follows the right path even when no one is looking. If you take the cash just be quiet about it and stop with the sackcloth and ashes bit. In either case it was your choice. If you keep the cash and the authorities show up at your house to get their marked bank notes back it is not some paraormal being punishing you. You have been caught in a sting set up by the authorities.
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Post by snow on May 6, 2014 10:20:41 GMT -5
i've a couple of times been lead in a direction i didn't want to go in but as of late its been agreeable... This sounds like a case of you knowing what the right thing to do is but you would rather not do it. You find a bag of money and no one sees you pick it up. You can turn it in to the authorities or you can keep it. Whatever you decide to so, it is what you want to do no matter how you try to convince yourself you are being led by some magical being. If you did the right thing, take credit for being an ethical human who does follows the right path even when no one is looking. If you take the cash just be quiet about it and stop with the sackcloth and ashes bit. In either case it was your choice. If you keep the cash and the authorities show up at your house to get their marked bank notes back it is not some paraormal being punishing you. You have been caught in a sting set up by the authorities. Your points make me remember why I so dislike what believing in God does to people. It makes them credit that being (instead of themselves) when something goes good, and they berate themselves for being weak and a sinner when something goes wrong. So if it's good, god made it happen, but if it's wrong, they weren't following spirit and it was therefore their fault. How does that build self esteem? We do things right, good for us, we do things wrong, try again to do better. It is always our choice.
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Post by Annan on May 6, 2014 11:03:58 GMT -5
Your points make me remember why I so dislike what believing in God does to people. It makes them credit that being (instead of themselves) when something goes good, and they berate themselves for being weak and a sinner when something goes wrong. So if it's good, god made it happen, but if it's wrong, they weren't following spirit and it was therefore their fault. How does that build self esteem? We do things right, good for us, we do things wrong, try again to do better. It is always our choice. *applauds*
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Post by dmmichgood on May 6, 2014 16:11:17 GMT -5
This sounds like a case of you knowing what the right thing to do is but you would rather not do it. You find a bag of money and no one sees you pick it up. You can turn it in to the authorities or you can keep it. Whatever you decide to so, it is what you want to do no matter how you try to convince yourself you are being led by some magical being. If you did the right thing, take credit for being an ethical human who does follows the right path even when no one is looking. If you take the cash just be quiet about it and stop with the sackcloth and ashes bit. In either case it was your choice. If you keep the cash and the authorities show up at your house to get their marked bank notes back it is not some paraormal being punishing you. You have been caught in a sting set up by the authorities. Your points make me remember why I so dislike what believing in God does to people. It makes them credit that being (instead of themselves) when something goes good, and they berate themselves for being weak and a sinner when something goes wrong. So if it's good, god made it happen, but if it's wrong, they weren't following spirit and it was therefore their fault. How does that build self esteem? We do things right, good for us, we do things wrong, try again to do better. It is always our choice. You aren't suppose to have any "self-esteem" if you are professing!
You are just suppose to be humble. And of course that turns out to be letting other people run all over you and you just take it and do what they say.
Is it any wonder then that when we are "professing" we just do whatever the workers say?
I am sure this is the problem in the **TRUTH** with many of our mental and emotional health conditions.
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Post by snow on May 6, 2014 17:06:00 GMT -5
Your points make me remember why I so dislike what believing in God does to people. It makes them credit that being (instead of themselves) when something goes good, and they berate themselves for being weak and a sinner when something goes wrong. So if it's good, god made it happen, but if it's wrong, they weren't following spirit and it was therefore their fault. How does that build self esteem? We do things right, good for us, we do things wrong, try again to do better. It is always our choice. You aren't suppose to have any "self-esteem" if you are professing!
You are just suppose to be humble. And of course that turns out to be letting other people run all over you and you just take it and do what they say.
Is it any wonder then that when we are "professing" we just do whatever the workers say?
I am sure this is the problem in the **TRUTH** with many of our mental and emotional health conditions.
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 17:22:31 GMT -5
Your points make me remember why I so dislike what believing in God does to people. It makes them credit that being (instead of themselves) when something goes good, and they berate themselves for being weak and a sinner when something goes wrong. So if it's good, god made it happen, but if it's wrong, they weren't following spirit and it was therefore their fault. How does that build self esteem? We do things right, good for us, we do things wrong, try again to do better. It is always our choice. You aren't suppose to have any "self-esteem" if you are professing!
You are just suppose to be humble. And of course that turns out to be letting other people run all over you and you just take it and do what they say.
Is it any wonder then that when we are "professing" we just do whatever the workers say?
I am sure this is the problem in the **TRUTH** with many of our mental and emotional health conditions.
Rom_12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. i suppose that includes a certain amount of "run all over you" but he does give us an OUT in the phrase "IF IT BE POSSIBLE" in that verse....at least i think so and do so quite often
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Post by Annan on May 6, 2014 19:22:59 GMT -5
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me. Being told that we are not to question God always infuriated me. What a seriously dangerous doctrine.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 20:18:04 GMT -5
You aren't suppose to have any "self-esteem" if you are professing!
You are just suppose to be humble. And of course that turns out to be letting other people run all over you and you just take it and do what they say.
Is it any wonder then that when we are "professing" we just do whatever the workers say?
I am sure this is the problem in the **TRUTH** with many of our mental and emotional health conditions.
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me. . ... .. . it's my belief, snow, that shy people are so often MISUNDERSTOOD ! A non-shy person does not understand a shy person .. and the shy person is often labeled unfairly now, i guess i am a empathetic person (eh?) as i sort of feel another's PAIN (God help me) especially the pain of a shy person as opposed to a gregarious person (gregarious people in the long run truly disappoint me and make me feel as though I have wasted precious time as they also tend to be shallow and forget things that are important to me ) .. feeling another's pain can be good or bad, i suppose, but mostly turns into a blessing in the long run, if only one can see past the cloud to the silver lining .. (the sun is there somewhere , waiting to shine, )
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Post by snow on May 6, 2014 20:26:30 GMT -5
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me. Being told that we are not to question God always infuriated me. What a seriously dangerous doctrine. I agree. We must never accept someone telling us to not question.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 20:33:17 GMT -5
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me. Being told that we are not to question God always infuriated me. What a seriously dangerous doctrine. questioning God and asking God a question are two different things its good to ask God questions about things
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Post by snow on May 6, 2014 20:39:15 GMT -5
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me. . ... .. . it's my belief, snow, that shy people are so often MISUNDERSTOOD ! A non-shy person does not understand a shy person .. and the shy person is often labeled unfairly now, i guess i am a empathetic person (eh?) as i sort of feel another's PAIN (God help me) especially the pain of a shy person as opposed to a gregarious person (gregarious people in the long run truly disappoint me and make me feel as though I have wasted precious time as they also tend to be shallow and forget things that are important to me ) .. feeling another's pain can be good or bad, i suppose, but mostly turns into a blessing in the long run, if only one can see past the cloud to the silver lining .. (the sun is there somewhere , waiting to shine, ) I suppose they are, I've never really thought about that. I am still a little shy years later. But I've also learned to hide it and over rule it. I've had too many positions that called for public speaking, brain storming in groups to not learn how to speak out.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 21:16:36 GMT -5
I guess I must have had a little too much self esteem then. I didn't take kindly to be told I was a certain entity's offspring when I asked questions that couldn't be answered. From then on the word was that "I was spoiled" and I was 'a Wild One'. I was actually neither. I was very shy but I refused to be walked on. It was very hard for me to stand up for myself though. It was a very hard time for me. . ... .. . it's my belief, snow, that shy people are so often MISUNDERSTOOD ! A non-shy person does not understand a shy person .. and the shy person is often labeled unfairly now, i guess i am a empathetic person (eh?) as i sort of feel another's PAIN (God help me) especially the pain of a shy person as opposed to a gregarious person (gregarious people in the long run truly disappoint me and make me feel as though I have wasted precious time as they also tend to be shallow and forget things that are important to me ) .. feeling another's pain can be good or bad, i suppose, but mostly turns into a blessing in the long run, if only one can see past the cloud to the silver lining .. (the sun is there somewhere , waiting to shine, ) In my opinion, one needs to be careful as to the extent of feeling another person's pain. I don't have any hard core numbers/statistics on what the outcome is for people who care for other people in pain. I do know, however, that those who care for others in pain/anguish/whatever can take it upon theirselves, if they are not careful....VERY CAREFUL. Those who do not care for others in pain and suffering really do not understand this; nor can we expect them to. You just sort of have to tell yourself that there will be times when you feel ALL ALONE. (carrying the burden by yourself) and, no one truly understands... I am trying to steer away from any negative commentary pro or con "the workers", so will refrain, for now, from commenting on how I truly believe. fwiw-bop
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 21:30:50 GMT -5
. ... .. . it's my belief, snow, that shy people are so often MISUNDERSTOOD ! A non-shy person does not understand a shy person .. and the shy person is often labeled unfairly now, i guess i am a empathetic person (eh?) as i sort of feel another's PAIN (God help me) especially the pain of a shy person as opposed to a gregarious person (gregarious people in the long run truly disappoint me and make me feel as though I have wasted precious time as they also tend to be shallow and forget things that are important to me ) .. feeling another's pain can be good or bad, i suppose, but mostly turns into a blessing in the long run, if only one can see past the cloud to the silver lining .. (the sun is there somewhere , waiting to shine, ) I suppose they are, I've never really thought about that. I am still a little shy years later. But I've also learned to hide it and over rule it. I've had too many positions that called for public speaking, brain storming in groups to not learn how to speak out. .. ... . snow, you sound like an over-comer and for that I tip my hat ! now, mind you, i come from a redneck/cowboy background and we don't just 'tip our hats' for no reason !! --to tell you the truth, there were none so humble as the cowboy, the cattle farm owner, the cowhands , etc, who spent hours and hours and hours of back-breaking hard labor to make ends meet and keep the ranch 'ALIVE' .. so many simply do not understand this nor the LIVING that is required from day to day; the diligence i fear it is a dying breed , snow but, just the same---i know that you care , okay ? i know you care and have always cared ... even though maybe you could not express it as well as you would have liked to . .. ahhh, such is life, huh ? we live, we learn, we roll with the punches ..
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Post by rational on May 6, 2014 22:13:34 GMT -5
In my opinion, one needs to be careful as to the extent of feeling another person's pain. I don't have any hard core numbers/statistics on what the outcome is for people who care for other people in pain. I do know, however, that those who care for others in pain/anguish/whatever can take it upon theirselves, if they are not careful....VERY CAREFUL. Those who do not care for others in pain and suffering really do not understand this; nor can we expect them to. I think what you mean is these are your feelings. I think you are projecting how you are effected y caring for others. I don't think it would be accurate to paint others with your brush.
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Post by findingtruth on May 6, 2014 22:27:54 GMT -5
This is likely a result of NO faith in what they "claim" to have faith in. In other words these people like to talk about Jesus and their faith in Jesus but in reality they don't really believe in his words. At least this is my personal view. Half of what Jesus said was rules. Half of what Paul said was rules. Half of what Peter said was rules.
FindingTruth, why do you have a problem with this?Bert, I don't have a problem with rules in their proper place. And I believe there is a difference between ordinary common sense and simply following rules. I wonder if it's rules that determine every decision you make. If you care to lay aside your "rules radar" and pay attention to what Jesus appeared to be teaching you might see that he was critical of those who were so engrossed in the rules that there was no heart transformation. I don't make decisions based on rules (outside of the workplace) but I allow my basic principles to guide my choices. I do know that there are those who can't function without RULES. I feel for them. Bert, do YOU have a problem with allowing good basic judgment and love(what a thing to consider!) guide your choices? Bert, I don't think you really believe half of what you post - I think you post to stir things up. Must keep you pretty entertained. I'm not even sure you attend meetings. I'd be surprised if you do.
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Post by snow on May 6, 2014 22:48:00 GMT -5
I suppose they are, I've never really thought about that. I am still a little shy years later. But I've also learned to hide it and over rule it. I've had too many positions that called for public speaking, brain storming in groups to not learn how to speak out. .. ... . snow, you sound like an over-comer and for that I tip my hat ! now, mind you, i come from a redneck/cowboy background and we don't just 'tip our hats' for no reason !! --to tell you the truth, there were none so humble as the cowboy, the cattle farm owner, the cowhands , etc, who spent hours and hours and hours of back-breaking hard labor to make ends meet and keep the ranch 'ALIVE' .. so many simply do not understand this nor the LIVING that is required from day to day; the diligence i fear it is a dying breed , snow but, just the same---i know that you care , okay ? i know you care and have always cared ... even though maybe you could not express it as well as you would have liked to . .. ahhh, such is life, huh ? we live, we learn, we roll with the punches .. When I was 17 and 18 I lived on a ranch and worked as a hand. Had a blast even though we worked long hours and worked hard. Also, there were some really really cute cowboys. best job ever ha ha
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Post by dmmichgood on May 6, 2014 22:50:38 GMT -5
You aren't suppose to have any "self-esteem" if you are professing!
You are just suppose to be humble. And of course that turns out to be letting other people run all over you and you just take it and do what they say.
Is it any wonder then that when we are "professing" we just do whatever the workers say?
I am sure this is the problem in the **TRUTH** with many of our mental and emotional health conditions.
Rom_12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.i suppose that includes a certain amount of "run all over you" but he does give us an OUT in the phrase "IF IT BE POSSIBLE" in that verse....at least i think so and do so quite often Wally, I wasn't talking about "live peaceably with all men!"
I was talking about having enough self-esteem to resist what other people do that can harm you!
Teaching in the **TRUTH** does everything posssible to knock all self esteem out of a person .
Why?
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 6:23:41 GMT -5
Rom_12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.i suppose that includes a certain amount of "run all over you" but he does give us an OUT in the phrase "IF IT BE POSSIBLE" in that verse....at least i think so and do so quite often Wally, I wasn't talking about "live peaceably with all men!"
I was talking about having enough self-esteem to resist what other people do that can harm you!
Teaching in the **TRUTH** does everything posssible to knock all self esteem out of a person .
Why?
because were suppose to be humble so we can be exalted later... Mat_18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mat_23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Jas_4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1Pe_5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
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Post by dmmichgood on May 7, 2014 15:36:46 GMT -5
Wally, I wasn't talking about "live peaceably with all men!"
I was talking about having enough self-esteem to resist what other people do that can harm you!
Teaching in the **TRUTH** does everything pos for some pie n the sky after lifeible to knock all self esteem out of a person .
Why?
because were suppose to be humble so we can be exalted later... Mat_18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mat_23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Jas_4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1Pe_5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Wally, if you want to let people run all over you and make life here on earth difficult for you in hopes of getting some "pie in the sky" reward in an after life-you go right ahead!
Since there is absolutely no evidence that an after life even exists (except in your own ideas) I'll pass on that one & settle on what I know in the here & now.
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Post by Gene on May 7, 2014 17:27:02 GMT -5
Wally, I wasn't talking about "live peaceably with all men!"
I was talking about having enough self-esteem to resist what other people do that can harm you!
Teaching in the **TRUTH** does everything posssible to knock all self esteem out of a person .
Why?
because were suppose to be humble so we can be exalted later... Mat_18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mat_23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Jas_4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1Pe_5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: So if humility is the ultimate goal, one should exalt one's self now, to ensure eternal humility. Or to put it another way, if humility is honorable, how could an honorable person be enticed by eternal exaltation? Do you suppose there's a flaw in what is recorded as the teaching of Jesus?
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 18:22:45 GMT -5
because were suppose to be humble so we can be exalted later... Mat_18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mat_23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Jas_4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Jas_4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1Pe_5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: So if humility is the ultimate goal, one should exalt one's self now, to ensure eternal humility. Or to put it another way, if humility is honorable, how could an honorable person be enticed by eternal exaltation? Do you suppose there's a flaw in what is recorded as the teaching of Jesus? i'm not sure if i am following your question but i think that the goal would be to be exalted later so be humble now to achieve that...
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Post by Gene on May 7, 2014 18:27:55 GMT -5
So if humility is the ultimate goal, one should exalt one's self now, to ensure eternal humility. Or to put it another way, if humility is honorable, how could an honorable person be enticed by eternal exaltation? Do you suppose there's a flaw in what is recorded as the teaching of Jesus? i'm not sure if i am following your question but i think that the goal would be to be exalted later so be humble now to achieve that... But a truly humble person would not WANT to be exalted! It would not be a goal to aim for! Only a secretly proud person wearing a false cloak of humility would want to be exalted.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 18:32:31 GMT -5
i'm not sure if i am following your question but i think that the goal would be to be exalted later so be humble now to achieve that... But a truly humble person would not WANT to be exalted! It would not be a goal to aim for! Only a secretly proud person wearing a false cloak of humility would want to be exalted. i don't think its a sin to covet heavenly things such as being exalted in heaven...its all part of Gods promise to us for heavenly things to be added to us once we reach heaven...
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Post by dmmichgood on May 7, 2014 18:44:09 GMT -5
So if humility is the ultimate goal, one should exalt one's self now, to ensure eternal humility. Or to put it another way, if humility is honorable, how could an honorable person be enticed by eternal exaltation? Do you suppose there's a flaw in what is recorded as the teaching of Jesus? i'm not sure if i am following your question but i think that the goal would be to be exalted later so be humble now to achieve that... It would seem to me that if your goal would be to be exalted later, being humble now to achieve that goal would really be dishonest.
You would be masking your real goal, which is to be exalted later, by appearing to be humble now.
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Post by Gene on May 7, 2014 18:49:47 GMT -5
But a truly humble person would not WANT to be exalted! It would not be a goal to aim for! Only a secretly proud person wearing a false cloak of humility would want to be exalted. i don't think its a sin to covet heavenly things such as being exalted in heaven...its all part of Gods promise to us for heavenly things to be added to us once we reach heaven... What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
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