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Post by minhthanh on Mar 4, 2014 3:02:12 GMT -5
-This lady professed after the gospel meeting.
-Sharing the precious time with each other by a simple meal.
I was ill for two days, so a little slow to tell you our very speacial meeting on Sunday.
Uncle Hoa stayed only with our Sunday fellowship meeting once a month on the first Sunday, that means people who want to hear the Gospel can come to hear in that day, after the fellowship meeting.
While we all waited for that day, uncle Hoa had to prepare the message for two meetings in a day. Uncle Hoa returned on Saturday afternoon, we just had a short time with him in dinner only.
Hearing his plan going to Phương Lâm right after 2 meetings, I prevented him because of noon time, very hot under the sunshine… It took 4-5 hours to be there. (More than 135Km)
His answer was “More than 20 friends there are waiting for me” I couldn’t persuade him, for he heard “I hear the bleating of the sheep, and see the little lambs to keep… Impelled by love”
Appreciating with his plan, we arranged a very simlpe meal, with friends together. We valued the very little time with uncle Hoa and friends. He took advantage of the short time of his rest life for the work of God in Vietnam
We wish that you can have the fellowship with us, experience by yourself how sweet it is among the friends who respect in worship God with love and unity. Especially you can hear the message from uncle Hoa full of Spirit of God.
After the Gosple meeting an old lady stood up. She spoke how thankfull being near the friends, visitting friends in many places, hearing the Gospel more than two years. Now she wanted to be a child of God, to be one with us in fellowship.
We were all full of happyness to hear her choice, and happy to share with you, too. I did believe that her professing would be a great support for uncle Hoa continued his sacrifice for the losing souls in my country.
Just enough for today, because I am not wealthy in my body.
Sharing with you 2 pictures.
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Post by snow on Mar 4, 2014 11:23:35 GMT -5
The rest of my post; 1) The reason your logic is flawed is you believe that what the VN people read on the internet is "poison" yet you post things such as Valiant Thor, and Aliens living underground and think it not poison. The stuff you refer to as "poison" is basically history and facts based on verifiable material and research. Yet the internet stuff you constantly post is simply based and backed up by Youtube videos. Nothing more. ~~ If you were to read the Valiant Thor's article on page 3... He was/is pointing people to follow Jesus as the Creator of the Universe! He is the rightful Savior because He has redeemed us with His blood. Jesus is coming back soon as the King of kings. I don't believe what Valiant Thor has said is Poison! He has strengthen and confirmed our Faith in God and our Lord God Jesus as the Savior.
There are 12,600 viewers on Valiant Thor article. The most read article on my message board. I have referred many of my customers at work about Valiant Thor's article and they thank me for the information. They have passed the link to their friends, and theirs friends. The Younger generation are more open minded! And they are familiar with Celestial beings, Aliens, UFO, etc... than the older generation before them. I grew up hearing, reading about these things but I put it in the back of my mind.
According to John the apostle and Enoch the fallen angels live under the earth/ground. Many of my information came from the book of Enoch, Genesis, pastors sermons on Aliens/Demons are fallen angels, good angels, God, testimonies of U.S. government employees, who have worked with these heavenly beings for 60 yrs. According to the book of Enoch... Satan and his fallen angels HOME/confinement is UNDER the earth. They live underground/in the hallow earth/CAVES.2) The logic I'm referring to is, you believe unverified Youtube videos, but obviously do not believe the history Cherie has documented that is all based on verified evidence and research. ~~ I have used and appreciate some of history Cherie has documented but TTT website is NOT telling the WHOLE truth. By the way, I don't believe everything I see, or hear on Youtube either. I think it's interesting that you are criticizing the golden friends for not being in the Truth and that they should come back when they share the very same principles and values as those in the Christian world. Yet you, who is in the Truth, believe in things that no one in the Truth believes. How can you say that you are in the Truth and hold beliefs like the ones you have about aliens in a hollow earth and Valiant Thor? If the workers were to look at what they believe and at what you believe, I think they would say the Golden friends are closer in mindset then you are. I think you are a wonderful person Nathan, but you do not hold Truth beliefs if they consist of Valiant Thor. I'm not saying you are wrong to believe in those things that you do, I'm just saying the Truth people do not believe what you do. So judging the friends in VN because they no longer want to be a part of a corrupt system seems rather misguided to me.
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Post by snow on Mar 4, 2014 14:42:11 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that you are criticizing the golden friends for not being in the Truth and that they should come back when they share the very same principles and values as those in the Christian world. Yet you, who is in the Truth, believe in things that no one in the Truth believes. How can you say that you are in the Truth and hold beliefs like the ones you have about aliens in a hollow earth and Valiant Thor? If the workers were to look at what they believe and at what you believe, I think they would say the Golden friends are closer in mindset then you are. I think you are a wonderful person Nathan, but you do not hold Truth beliefs if they consist of Valiant Thor. I'm not saying you are wrong to believe in those things that you do, I'm just saying the Truth people do not believe what you do. So judging the friends in VN because they no longer want to be a part of a corrupt system seems rather misguided to me. ~~ I want the friends, workers and others to have an open mind and to STUDY these things out for themselves, just like I did. It took me 16 months to study, read, listen on this subject. It will strengthen your faith in God! It will help us to understand why this planet earth is in a BIG MESS today ... Angels, Aliens= fallen angels, are written in the Bible. They are NOT fairy tales, figures of our own imagination. They are REAL heavenly celestial BEINGS came to earth in the Old and New Testament, and today doing the Lord God Jesus' will... The good and BAD angels are HERE among us. God is ALIVE and He Cares about humanity. He has sent His good angels to help humanity to ease their sufferings, pains. The EVIL angels are here to destroy us. The good angels of God are here to PROTECT us from the evils ones. There is a REAL spiritual/natural warfare fighting between the good angels and Evil ones for the souls of men and women.
The US government, Russia, China, Germans, British, Israel, South America, etc... have known about these heavenly beings, and have been working with the good and bad angels for 60 yrs.3) Ts (ex-worker) wrote: I admire Nathan's boldness. Nathan is preaching things that the workers are afraid to get into. Of course UFO abductions are real. They do not have any power over true Christians, though. UFOs are demonic. if you ever encounter them, rebuke them in the name of Jesus. I have always been a bit curious about UFOs even before I professed. I became more curious when I was in the work and had a companion who said that he saw a flying saucer. And another friend in a different part of the country (both in the East) saw one. The description of the event by both were almost identical. My companion speculated on what the UFOs could be. He said that if there were another world where the inhabitants did not sin like on our Earth, they would certainly be blessed and have more advanced technology. 4) dlb5674 wrote: Actually Nathan, I do believe in life outside of our planet and personally believe that anyone who closes their mind to this possibility displays total ignorance or arrogance. There is much that we do not know. I've watched many documentaries on alien life. Here is a documentary that I find very believable. Watch it and see for yourself. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPCKIL7oVw 5) Hi Nathan,I clicked on a link that you posted on one of your comments, and it led me to your website (pro-boards). You have a lot of interesting links about alien life etc. I don't ever hear of any of the friends or workers speaking on what the bible says about the sons of God/200 fallen angels breeding with the women on earth (Genesis 6:1-4)..... even though the topic is there in the bible for a reason (not to be ignored). I just wanted to say thank you for being the brave one to put information out there even though many may disagree with you.... that is not easy to do. I don't find it hard to believe at all what you are saying, it makes sense to me. What is the book of Enoch? I will have to google that, I am not familiar with it. Just curious about something, how long have you known about the history of our group? thank you for your contribution to the pro-boards! Your sister in Christ, ph Nathan I am sure there are some but the numbers would be minuscule in comparison to the majority that do not believe in Valiant Thor. Having the backing of someone that states that UFO's are demonic doesn't exactly do much for your cause either. The Bible is a symbolism not a literal truth. We are talking ancient people with ancient understandings of their world. Think about that.
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Post by snow on Mar 4, 2014 16:07:00 GMT -5
Nathan I am sure there are some but the numbers would be minuscule in comparison to the majority that do not believe in Valiant Thor. Having the backing of someone that states that UFO's are demonic doesn't exactly do much for your cause either. The Bible is a symbolism not a literal truth. We are talking ancient people with ancient understandings of their world. Think about that. We have too many witnesses who saw Valiant Thor in person ( two police men escorted him to the Pentagon, the Pentagon high ranking officials, Nancy Warren, the President Eisenhower, Nixon, Dr. and Pastor Stranges, his parents, Many of the reporters at New Jersey UFO conference, Phil Snider, etc) pictures are taken of him with the US scientists in 1940s, book was written about him, and a movie telling about his meeting with the President Eisenhower and Nixon in 1957-60 at the Pentagon. Ts, is right on the money. Yes, the bad aliens are demons/fallen angels. Truth is stranger than fiction. The Bible is NOT too far off on these things than you think. These celestial beings live forever.[/quote] Nathan, many people have been trying to tell you that the whole thing is make believe. why are you clinging to this?
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 4, 2014 16:29:18 GMT -5
Nathan I am sure there are some but the numbers would be minuscule in comparison to the majority that do not believe in Valiant Thor. Having the backing of someone that states that UFO's are demonic doesn't exactly do much for your cause either. The Bible is a symbolism not a literal truth. We are talking ancient people with ancient understandings of their world. Think about that. Snow, I believe that Nathan is so into this UFO, middle earth, Thor thing that it is like an obsession with him.
There is simply no way to get him to listen! Many have tried and he just seems to dig his heels in further.
I just put his posts on hidden.
I realize that putting him on hidden only helps me ignore him and that he can still affect others in a detrimental way but I can do nothing much about that
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Post by snow on Mar 4, 2014 17:20:44 GMT -5
Nathan I am sure there are some but the numbers would be minuscule in comparison to the majority that do not believe in Valiant Thor. Having the backing of someone that states that UFO's are demonic doesn't exactly do much for your cause either. The Bible is a symbolism not a literal truth. We are talking ancient people with ancient understandings of their world. Think about that. Snow, I believe that Nathan is so into this UFO, middle earth, Thor thing that it is like an obsession with him.
There is simply no way to get him to listen! Many have tried and he just seems to dig his heels in further.
I just put his posts on hidden.
I realize that putting him on hidden only helps me ignore him and that he can still affect others in a detrimental way but I can do nothing much about that
Yes, I guess you're right. Lots of people have tried to show him that it's all bogus. And they say belief in the bible isn't dangerous. I have seen it solidify worse beliefs than Nathans.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 4, 2014 17:41:38 GMT -5
Good question. I'd like to know the answer to this also. And if it is no, then why not?
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Post by Scott Ross on Mar 5, 2014 2:21:48 GMT -5
The world would definitely be a more boring place without people like Nathan! It also shows that in the 2x2's you can have a plurality of views - however, crazy some might think they are! What I'd love to know is whether Nathan has talked with many workers about Valiant Thor or whether he has mentioned it in meetings. I'd be interested in whether he's mentioned William Irvine's sister in meeting - the latter is the subject of this thread. I reckon in a few year's time we'll have a thread - the role of Valiant Thor in the fellowship... He would have to attend meetings in order to speak about Ol' Willy's sis. I don't think he has given a testimony in a meeting in a very long time.
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Post by jondough on Mar 5, 2014 8:46:50 GMT -5
How did all these F&W respond when you talked to them about this stuff?
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Post by quizzer on Mar 5, 2014 11:34:38 GMT -5
The world would definitely be a more boring place without people like Nathan! It also shows that in the 2x2's you can have a plurality of views - however, crazy some might think they are! What I'd love to know is whether Nathan has talked with many workers about Valiant Thor or whether he has mentioned it in meetings. I'd be interested in whether he's mentioned William Irvine's sister in meeting - the latter is the subject of this thread. I reckon in a few year's time we'll have a thread - the role of Valiant Thor in the fellowship... I truly hope Nathan writes a couple of science fiction/fantasy books before he starts talking to other folks about these beliefs. With a few fictional short stories, these beliefs look like research. Otherwise...
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 5, 2014 12:11:21 GMT -5
Actually, when you think about it the supernatural Valiant Thor story is really no different that the supernatural story of Jesus dieing, raising three days later and then ascending into the clouds.
Both claimed to be emissaries from another world come to grant us "salvation."
Both are constructions of our mind that promises us a better life, one now & one hereafter.
Humankind seems to have a problem living in the here and now and being satisfied with this world & this life.
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Post by snow on Mar 5, 2014 15:18:02 GMT -5
Nathan I said that quote about a year ago to the day and you have not let me down. You are still the most fascinating 2x2 I know. There are many people channeling Jesus under different names at the moment in the New Age quarters. What do you think of them? Do you believe they are true like you believe Valiant Thor is true?
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Post by snow on Mar 5, 2014 21:04:33 GMT -5
Nathan I said that quote about a year ago to the day and you have not let me down. You are still the most fascinating 2x2 I know. ~~ Thanks, snow. You are one of the most interesting people, I have met on this message board. 2) There are many people channeling Jesus under different names at the moment in the New Age quarters. What do you think of them? Do you believe they are true like you believe Valiant Thor is true? ~~ I don't understand what you mean by MANY people channeling Jesus under different names in the New Age quarters. Who are these people? And what is their message about Jesus Christ? Thanks Nathan lol. If you are interested in that just google 'channeling Jesus' and you will see an endless number of different people who say they are channeling Jesus or Yeshua.
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Post by quizzer on Mar 6, 2014 10:42:36 GMT -5
Actually, when you think about it the supernatural Valiant Thor story is really no different that the supernatural story of Jesus dieing, raising three days later and then ascending into the clouds.
Both claimed to be emissaries from another world come to grant us "salvation."
Both are constructions of our mind that promises us a better life, one now & one hereafter.
Humankind seems to have a problem living in the here and now and being satisfied with this world & this life.
Well, they both have movies these days:
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Post by snow on Mar 6, 2014 11:24:55 GMT -5
LOL quizzer my sister has been posting the Son of God movie on fb. I always am somewhat amused by the people they choose to portray Jesus. Always some good looking white guy. Highly unlikely but Christianity have given them the attributes they would like him to be in lots of other ways so why not this way too. Like the guy who played him in Jesus Christ Superstar too!
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Post by quizzer on Mar 6, 2014 11:31:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I would be more favorable to a swarthy, dark-complexioned Middle Eastern - sorta like the common man of Christ's time. Oh, well...
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 2, 2015 17:38:08 GMT -5
I just found this in a batch of Irvine's letters I received last week.
Extracts from Letter to Mr. Duncan, Dunbars & Reeds May 12, 1934
"I owe more to the loss of my sister when she was 25 and I 23, than to all other circumstances and events, for it cured me of my attempt at following Ingersoll & Co., as I had been doing for years, and she of all my sisters has been a living fellowship even to this day, and I'm no spiritualist, but strong in the hope of seeing her, with little home for most of my friends and relatives."
“The only comfort I ever had from my father and mother was when dying, to confess that I was doing the right thing, after they had done everything they could to hinder me and my witness for Jesus…”
Wm Irvine
His sister Margaret Irvine died on July 18, 1886, age 25.
IF she had been the source of spiritual help for him, I'd think he would have listed that to her credit.
IF she was the "finder of truth" Nate alleges while working in a home in Ireland...I'd think he would have said something about it...
But no, he says her death cured him of his attempt at following Ingersoll & Co.---what on earth does that mean? Anyone have any idea what Ingersoll & So. was??
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 2, 2015 18:05:50 GMT -5
I just found this in a batch of Irvine's letters I received last week.
Extracts from Letter to Mr. Duncan, Dunbars & Reeds May 12, 1934"I owe more to the loss of my sister when she was 25 and I 23, than to all other circumstances and events, for it cured me of my attempt at following Ingersoll & Co., as I had been doing for years, and she of all my sisters has been a living fellowship even to this day, and I'm no spiritualist, but strong in the hope of seeing her, with little home for most of my friends and relatives." “The only comfort I ever had from my father and mother was when dying, to confess that I was doing the right thing, after they had done everything they could to hinder me and my witness for Jesus…” Wm Irvine
His sister Margaret Irvine died on July 18, 1886, age 25. IF she had been the source of spiritual help for him, I'd think he would have listed that to her credit. IF she was the "finder of truth" Nate alleges while working in a home in Ireland...I'd think he would have said something about it... But no, he says her death cured him of his attempt at following Ingersoll & Co.---what on earth does that mean? Anyone have any idea what Ingersoll & So. was??
There was a Robert G Ingersoll who died in 1899 who was a widely known and influential American orator, nicknamed the "Great Agnostic". I have my doubts that this was who Irvine was referring to, but he was very influential at the time that Irvine began having his revelations. FWIW
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 18:13:12 GMT -5
I just found this in a batch of Irvine's letters I received last week.
Extracts from Letter to Mr. Duncan, Dunbars & Reeds May 12, 1934"I owe more to the loss of my sister when she was 25 and I 23, than to all other circumstances and events, for it cured me of my attempt at following Ingersoll & Co., as I had been doing for years, and she of all my sisters has been a living fellowship even to this day, and I'm no spiritualist, but strong in the hope of seeing her, with little home for most of my friends and relatives." “The only comfort I ever had from my father and mother was when dying, to confess that I was doing the right thing, after they had done everything they could to hinder me and my witness for Jesus…” Wm Irvine
His sister Margaret Irvine died on July 18, 1886, age 25. IF she had been the source of spiritual help for him, I'd think he would have listed that to her credit. IF she was the "finder of truth" Nate alleges while working in a home in Ireland...I'd think he would have said something about it... But no, he says her death cured him of his attempt at following Ingersoll & Co.---what on earth does that mean? Anyone have any idea what Ingersoll & So. was??
Do you think that it could have been Robert Green Ingersoll?
Robert Green Ingersoll was an orator, lecturer
Genre : Satire, essay, social commentary, political commentary, philosophical literature, Biblical criticism Subject : Freethought, Agnosticism, Humanism, Abolitionism, Women's rights, Literature.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 2, 2015 18:14:04 GMT -5
There's some important things to be learned from reading this too: blondie.com/
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 23:32:02 GMT -5
I just found this in a batch of Irvine's letters I received last week.
Extracts from Letter to Mr. Duncan, Dunbars & Reeds May 12, 1934"I owe more to the loss of my sister when she was 25 and I 23, than to all other circumstances and events, for it cured me of my attempt at following Ingersoll & Co., as I had been doing for years, and she of all my sisters has been a living fellowship even to this day, and I'm no spiritualist, but strong in the hope of seeing her, with little home for most of my friends and relatives." “The only comfort I ever had from my father and mother was when dying, to confess that I was doing the right thing, after they had done everything they could to hinder me and my witness for Jesus…” Wm Irvine
His sister Margaret Irvine died on July 18, 1886, age 25. IF she had been the source of spiritual help for him, I'd think he would have listed that to her credit. IF she was the "finder of truth" Nate alleges while working in a home in Ireland...I'd think he would have said something about it... But no, he says her death cured him of his attempt at following Ingersoll & Co.---what on earth does that mean? Anyone have any idea what Ingersoll & So. was??
www.quotessays.com/images/robert-green-ingersolls-quotes-6.jpg
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 3, 2015 0:39:14 GMT -5
I just found this in a batch of Irvine's letters I received last week.
Extracts from Letter to Mr. Duncan, Dunbars & Reeds May 12, 1934"I owe more to the loss of my sister when she was 25 and I 23, than to all other circumstances and events, for it cured me of my attempt at following Ingersoll & Co., as I had been doing for years, and she of all my sisters has been a living fellowship even to this day, and I'm no spiritualist, but strong in the hope of seeing her, with little home for most of my friends and relatives." “The only comfort I ever had from my father and mother was when dying, to confess that I was doing the right thing, after they had done everything they could to hinder me and my witness for Jesus…” Wm Irvine
His sister Margaret Irvine died on July 18, 1886, age 25. IF she had been the source of spiritual help for him, I'd think he would have listed that to her credit. IF she was the "finder of truth" Nate alleges while working in a home in Ireland...I'd think he would have said something about it... But no, he says her death cured him of his attempt at following Ingersoll & Co.---what on earth does that mean? Anyone have any idea what Ingersoll & So. was??
Robert Ingersoll died in 1988. Irvine's sister Margaret Irvine died on July 18, 1886.
Irvine was 23.
No matter how we may dislike Irvine, I think that we have to admit he was an intelligent man and at the age of 23 perhaps investigating a lot of new ideas.
Robert Ingersoll may well have been the "Ingersoll" to which he is referring.from wiki
Ingersoll was most noted as an orator, the most popular of the age, when oratory was public entertainment. He spoke on every subject, from Shakespeare to Reconstruction, but his most popular subjects were agnosticism and the sanctity and refuge of the family.
He committed his speeches to memory although they were sometimes more than three hours long. His audiences were said[by whom?] never to be restless.
Many of Ingersoll's speeches advocated freethought and humanism, and often poked fun at religious belief.
For this the press often attacked him, but neither his views nor the negative press could stop his rising popularity.
At the height of Ingersoll's fame, audiences would pay $1 or more to hear him speak, a giant sum for his day.
In a lecture entitled "The Great Infidels," he attacked the Christian doctrine of Hell: "All the meanness, all the revenge, all the selfishness, all the cruelty, all the hatred, all the infamy of which the heart of man is capable, grew blossomed, and bore fruit in this one word—Hell."[8]
Robert Ingersoll is well known to "freethinkers" around the world. We have statue in our nearby city and I had a book of his at one time.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 3, 2015 0:48:29 GMT -5
I have one of Ingersoll's books -- a real page-turner.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 3, 2015 1:40:38 GMT -5
I have one of Ingersoll's books -- a real page-turner. I hope I can still find mine.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 3, 2015 8:52:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the info re Ingersoll.
I think you've probably put me on the right trail. There is a website that claims to have all of this writings on it.
PS dmmichgood - I think you meant Ingersoll died in 1899 and not 1988...
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 3, 2015 13:57:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the info re Ingersoll. I think you've probably put me on the right trail. There is a website that claims to have all of this writings on it. PS dmmichgood - I think you meant Ingersoll died in 1899 and not 1988... :)I was getting very tired last nite!
Yes, it was 1899.
Ingersoll was reasonable & not the ranting fanatic type.
He also spoke on so many subjects other than religion.
No doubt that was why he drew such crowds when he spoke.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 22, 2015 9:42:05 GMT -5
This was in the last bunch of letters I received by Wm Irvine. It concerns the death of Irvine's sister Jane called Jeanie (Irvine) Comrie who lived in Kilsyth, married to John Comrie. Click Here to view her family tree
April 30, 1937 Wm Irvine’s letter to Edwards I had cable that my sister Jeanie died on Wednesday night 28th April. I had been closer to her than any of my other relatives, and could have wished she had lived to see the Coronation of Dan. 7:9-14, so now she will know on the other side.
April 30, 1937 Wm Irvine’s letter to Westlunds, Auburn, California My dear Westlunds: Thanks for yours. Sorry to hear you are tasting some of the many forms of what the world is full of in Malachi 3 discipline, but Mal. 4 shows we are near the day when the line will be drawn clear and strong between those who are proud and wicked and those who will share in the sunlight of a new day when what they have despised will prove to be the Light of Life for all who will fear and hear His name before all other names which appeal to the World today. Cable from my brother-in-law yesterday tells of the death of my sister at 62. Now she will know who I am, the why of much she has seen in my life, especially these last 44 years and I could have wished above all things that she had had ears to hear my Message. They had great privilege and I had been more in touch with their family than others in the family. This leaves 3 families still whole and mostly grown up and married which is the goal of all human life. One great comfort I always have in the deaths of friends or foes is that they will all see as I see, because His name and all it stands for is the only name which counts beyond the grave, as it will become soon, this side, as they face Death or Life, according to the attitude to Him as He revealed and sealed with His Death and Resurrection, and now by His Power manifested to the World in Wrath or Mercy, as they honor or dishonour His name. The Coronation is filling the air all over the World these days but Daniel 5 stares them in the face—while Daniel 7:9-14 stares them in the face, tho they may refuse to see either one or the other. Daniel 8 to the end of the Book is a record of great Woes to come and all connected with who will be King of Babylon or Jerusalem. For Rev. 18 is proof that Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, but politically called Babylon, but all who burden themselves with Jerusalem shall be cut in pieces, Zech. 12:3, for He will claim it for His own and by the 2 Witnesses establish His Kingdom there forever as in Revelation 21; so the more they fight and war over it, the surer will be the Kingdom established. My love in Him, Wm Irvine
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