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Atheism
Dec 28, 2012 12:09:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 12:09:59 GMT -5
Learning from YOU Rat, I ask, what are your credentials that you can have patients and practice medicine diagnosing others conditions? ARE you claiming to be an MD? How do you claim patients?" I have never claimed to be an MD. Before I got into the hard sciences I worked in a psychiatric institution with patients for 6 years. It is not a matter of diagnosing conditions. It is a matter of realizing that hallucinations, to the person perceiving them, are indistinguishable from reality. It is also knowing, as in the example I gave, that there were not lines of marching elephants. You said: "NOBODY, atheist included, has any knowledge nor explanation for what I personally saw. NONE." I stated that while no one knows exactly what you perceived unless you tell them, there are many known causes of hallucinations. And given the fact that you said you were in bed, there is the possibility it could have been either a hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucination. They happen to a lot of people. If you believe that what you saw actually existed then that would raise a lot of other questions. ummmmmm, I wonder if John was hallucinating when he recorded his visions in the book of Revelations; oh, I am just thinking out loud.
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Atheism
Dec 28, 2012 18:47:56 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 28, 2012 18:47:56 GMT -5
I have never claimed to be an MD. Before I got into the hard sciences I worked in a psychiatric institution with patients for 6 years. It is not a matter of diagnosing conditions. It is a matter of realizing that hallucinations, to the person perceiving them, are indistinguishable from reality. It is also knowing, as in the example I gave, that there were not lines of marching elephants. You said: "NOBODY, atheist included, has any knowledge nor explanation for what I personally saw. NONE." I stated that while no one knows exactly what you perceived unless you tell them, there are many known causes of hallucinations. And given the fact that you said you were in bed, there is the possibility it could have been either a hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucination. They happen to a lot of people. If you believe that what you saw actually existed then that would raise a lot of other questions. ummmmmm, I wonder if John was hallucinating when he recorded his visions in the book of Revelations; oh, I am just thinking out loud. You think maybe,?
Interesting idea, after all, here was John, the author of Revelations, banished to an island in the Agean sea, probably by the Roman emperor, Domitian.
He's alone, apparently without fellowship of his brethern, so he is unable to "speak" with them but he "heard a great voice" telling him to "write" this book which is called Revelations!
Interesting!
Wouldn't be something if after over 2000 years later, we are still so busy trying to understand the meaning of what was just a lonely old man's hallucinations?
Boy, would the joke be on us!
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Atheism
Dec 28, 2012 18:57:45 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 28, 2012 18:57:45 GMT -5
ummmmmm, I wonder if John was hallucinating when he recorded his visions in the book of Revelations; oh, I am just thinking out loud. Not a chance. At least, not entirely. If it was encouraged by hallucinations to begin with, it was still written with literary precision, and with lots of scripture open in front of him. This book is not the ravings of a madman but a carefully researched masterpiece, referencing other scripture at every turn. So quit dissin' one of my favorite books!
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Atheism
Dec 28, 2012 19:26:19 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 28, 2012 19:26:19 GMT -5
ummmmmm, I wonder if John was hallucinating when he recorded his visions in the book of Revelations; oh, I am just thinking out loud. Not a chance. At least, not entirely. If it was encouraged by hallucinations to begin with, it was still written with literary precision, and with lots of scripture open in front of him. This book is not the ravings of a madman but a carefully researched masterpiece, referencing other scripture at every turn. So quit dissin' one of my favorite books! Ah, so you admit it might have been "encouraged by hallucinations"!If it is such a "masterpiece, referencing other scripture," WHY is it so difficult to understand, that people "see" all kinds of different interpretations and still argue over what this or that verse means?
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Atheism
Dec 28, 2012 19:33:18 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 28, 2012 19:33:18 GMT -5
That's the enduring beauty of apocalyptic literature, DM!
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Atheism
Dec 28, 2012 20:38:42 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 28, 2012 20:38:42 GMT -5
That's the enduring beauty of apocalyptic literature, DEM! ah..True. I like apocalyptic literature also; however, I keep my feet firmly on the ground & realize that what I'm reading is fiction! ;D
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 14:29:15 GMT -5
Post by déjà vu on Dec 30, 2012 14:29:15 GMT -5
I would like an honest answer
Do athiest believe in the devil?
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 16:17:15 GMT -5
Post by Gene on Dec 30, 2012 16:17:15 GMT -5
I would like an honest answer Do athiest believe in the devil? no
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 16:46:24 GMT -5
Post by jondough on Dec 30, 2012 16:46:24 GMT -5
I've wondered about this question in regards to Atheist,
Do they believe in karma?
Or, do they believe if someone gets away with deliberately doing wrong, then do they believe there is no price to pay?
Also, what determines right or wrong besides our laws? It seems it could vary drastically from one person to the next.
And finally, what drives them to want to help their fellow man? Do they believe in charity?
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 17:10:31 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 30, 2012 17:10:31 GMT -5
I would like an honest answer Do atheist believe in the devil? no, I don't-
the devil is just one more supernatural being that I find no evidence for his/her existence
People want to personify evil/b] so they created a devil
We have personified certain attributes to a god:
> that knows every thing we don't know
>is more powerfull than us because we are aware of how fragile we are ,
>has always been here because we are aware also of just how short our time is on earth.
Because of all these attributes that we don't have, we have imbued these attributes into to a being we call GOD.
It comforts us in numerous ways:
>God will take care of us personally (a heavenly "father")
>God will protect us from our enemies (he can do that because he is more powerful than us.)
>God's knowledge is so much greater than ours, that we can just not have to worry about why some things happen.
>AND if some harm does slip past him & happens to us, he KNOWS who "done" it & has the power that we don't have to avenge us.
> It may not happen until after we or the other person are dead, we are sure he will avenge us in time, remember since god has always been & will always be, he has plenty of time to get around to this.
Long way around to whether atheists believe in a devil! ;D
However, it much the same in many ways why people personify the evil as a Devil in a world where we can't understand why certain terrible things happen.
>We assign all the evil attributes to the devil.
> we can even assign things WE do that we shouldn't do to the devil (The devil made me do it)
Now we have set up a war between entities of good & evil that are fighting for control of our short lived, fragile selves.
WOW we think we are really important, don't we?
Perhaps that is one, if not , the main reason we personify a god & the devil- that it make us feel so important?
Do you think maybe?
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 17:22:42 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 30, 2012 17:22:42 GMT -5
First of all you have to consider that the word atheist simply means that the person does not believe in any deity or deities. Other than that they could be just like you or me! Now for my answers to your questions: I've wondered about this question in regards to Atheist, Do they believe in karma? No. If you do something good you do something good. You might get satisfaction but you could also get punched in the face! Price to pay to whom? If they do wrong they do wrong. The universe will little note nor long remember what we do here... (sorry Lincoln!). People have a moral code of their own. Generally empathy is a large part of how a moral code develops. You know, the ethic of reciprocity. Yes it could. People are, after all, individuals. The ethic of reciprocity? What makes you not want to kick a puppy?I do.
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 21:52:17 GMT -5
Post by jondough on Dec 30, 2012 21:52:17 GMT -5
First of all you have to consider that the word atheist simply means that the person does not believe in any deity or deities. Other than that they could be just like you or me! Now for my answers to your questions: I've wondered about this question in regards to Atheist, Do they believe in karma? No. If you do something good you do something good. You might get satisfaction but you could also get punched in the face! Price to pay to whom? If they do wrong they do wrong. The universe will little note nor long remember what we do here... (sorry Lincoln!). People have a moral code of their own. Generally empathy is a large part of how a moral code develops. You know, the ethic of reciprocity. Yes it could. People are, after all, individuals. The ethic of reciprocity? What makes you not want to kick a puppy?I do. Thank you. I guess another good thing about religous convictions is if you happen to be born a person that feels moved to kick a puppy, these convictions would deter this. They might also move a person to giving to charity where otherwise they wouldn't. i guess the bad part may be that many wars have been fought over religeon.
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 21:58:06 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 30, 2012 21:58:06 GMT -5
Thank you. I guess another good thing about religous convictions is if you happen to be born a person that feels moved to kick a puppy, these convictions would deter this. I do not believe you can provide data to back this up. Why would this be so? And that is all you see as the bad part?
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Deleted
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2012 22:45:03 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 22:45:03 GMT -5
Re "wars over religion" I gave a bored Catholic student a task to do some years ago, "Of the mass causalities of the 20th Century, find out how many were caused by religious wars."
His figure, if I can recall, was about 10-15%.
In prehistoric societies, the total death toll of young males to head trauma alone is about 25-30%. I doubt this was over religious wars.
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Atheism
Dec 31, 2012 0:27:58 GMT -5
Post by fred on Dec 31, 2012 0:27:58 GMT -5
Re "wars over religion" I gave a bored Catholic student a task to do some years ago, "Of the mass causalities of the 20th Century, find out how many were caused by religious wars." His figure, if I can recall, was about 10-15%. I suspect that most wars stem from issues such as power, resources ( water, oil, precious metals etc) and access (trade routes). Some of these wars get dressed up in a cloak of religion, as this has been perhaps the easiest way to get popular support.
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Post by xna on Dec 21, 2014 13:30:45 GMT -5
In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. 5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. 6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. 9. There is no one right way to live. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 21, 2014 14:42:42 GMT -5
In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. 5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. 6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. 9. There is no one right way to live. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook pretty good, imo. Alvin
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Atheism
Dec 21, 2014 16:30:58 GMT -5
Post by Mary on Dec 21, 2014 16:30:58 GMT -5
In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. Christians believe this too. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. Christians believe this too. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. I would say scientific method is one of the ways of understanding the natural world. But there are many things that science cannot find answers for. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. Christians believe this too.5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. I agree God is not necessary to be a good person but I do believe knowing that death is not the end gives a more meaningful life.
6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. Absolutely Christians believe that. They believe we will be judged by our actions. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. A Christian principle. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. A human concept whether Christian or not.9. There is no one right way to live. Of course we are all different. But there is right and there is wrong. There is a right way to live. A society without laws will lead to chaos and crime- not that there is not enough of that already. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. Christians believe that too. Can't see these as applying just to Atheists. Most are human principles not unique to a belief or non belief system. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook[/quote]
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Post by SharonArnold on Dec 21, 2014 17:23:17 GMT -5
In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. 5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. 6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. 9. There is no one right way to live. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebookI think this could easily be re-titled: "Ten Commandments for Being a Decent Human Being" That this was the product of crowdsourcing truly gives me hope for humankind.
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Atheism
Dec 21, 2014 17:24:42 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2014 17:24:42 GMT -5
[/quote] In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. Christians believe this too. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. Christians believe this too. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. I would say scientific method is one of the ways of understanding the natural world. But there are many things that science cannot find answers for. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. Christians believe this too.5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. I agree God is not necessary to be a good person but I do believe knowing that death is not the end gives a more meaningful life.
6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. Absolutely Christians believe that. They believe we will be judged by our actions. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. A Christian principle. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. A human concept whether Christian or not.9. There is no one right way to live. Of course we are all different. But there is right and there is wrong. There is a right way to live. A society without laws will lead to chaos and crime- not that there is not enough of that already. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. Christians believe that too. Can't see these as applying just to Atheists. Most are human principles not unique to a belief or non belief system. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebookT hat would be nice, Mary, if all most Christians really believed & acted as you say, but they don't.
1) I have yet to see most Christians be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. Can you tell me of one time?
2) I don't see Christians striving to understand what is most likely to be true. For instance what about that the Hebrew god was a only a tribal god & not the god of the universe?
3) When science cannot find answers for something, They wait to see where evidence leads, while Christians & other religions won't wait for evidence, they throw some paranormal being into the gap.
4) Christians believe that very person has the right to control of their body? Then why do Christians deny Men & Women rights to contraception, or gays rights to control their sexuality or deny women the right to not have to continue a pregnancy?
5) It seems to me that knowing that this life is all you have would led one living life to the fullest in the here and now.
6) It isn't a matter of whether WE will be judged by our actions. Forget the ME and MY being judged. It is a matter of thinking about how our actions affect others.
7) "Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated." has been a principle. long before it became a Christian one.
8) True
9) Straw man argument. Atheists aren't advocating "A society without laws"
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Atheism
Dec 21, 2014 17:27:26 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2014 17:27:26 GMT -5
In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. 5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. 6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. 9. There is no one right way to live. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebookI think this could easily be re-titled: "Ten Commandments for Being a Decent Human Being"That this was the product of crowdsourcing truly gives me hope for humankind. I Agree, Sharon.
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Atheism
Dec 21, 2014 19:46:16 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 21, 2014 19:46:16 GMT -5
In the news today "Behold, atheists' New Ten Commandment" 1. Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. Christians believe this too. 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. Christians believe this too. 3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world. I would say scientific method is one of the ways of understanding the natural world. But there are many things that science cannot find answers for. 4. Every person has the right to control of their body. Christians believe this too.5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life. I agree God is not necessary to be a good person but I do believe knowing that death is not the end gives a more meaningful life.
6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them. Absolutely Christians believe that. They believe we will be judged by our actions. 7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective. A Christian principle. 8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations. A human concept whether Christian or not.9. There is no one right way to live. Of course we are all different. But there is right and there is wrong. There is a right way to live. A society without laws will lead to chaos and crime- not that there is not enough of that already. 10. Leave the world a better place than you found it. Christians believe that too. Can't see these as applying just to Atheists. Most are human principles not unique to a belief or non belief system. us.cnn.com/2014/12/19/living/atheist-10-commandments/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook[/quote] Well that's good to hear Mary. Looks like we atheists aren't as bad as Christians make us out to be after all if Christians believe what we believe! Always nice to see so much common ground.
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Atheism
Dec 21, 2014 21:02:42 GMT -5
Post by Mary on Dec 21, 2014 21:02:42 GMT -5
I was thinking you thought you were unique and that Christians did not believe these things. We are not 2 different species, we are all human with a lot of similarities and the same wiring in our brains, to think, to do good etc.
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Atheism
Dec 21, 2014 22:39:31 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 21, 2014 22:39:31 GMT -5
I was thinking you thought you were unique and that Christians did not believe these things. We are not 2 different species, we are all human with a lot of similarities and the same wiring in our brains, to think, to do good etc. Exactly. We are all capable of being humane no matter what religion or non religion we believe in.
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Atheism
Dec 22, 2014 15:42:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by slowtosee on Dec 22, 2014 15:42:02 GMT -5
T hat would be nice, Mary, if all most Christians really believed & acted as you say, but they don't.
1) I have yet to see most Christians be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence. Can you tell me of one time?
2) I don't see Christians striving to understand what is most likely to be true. For instance what about that the Hebrew god was a only a tribal god & not the god of the universe?
3) When science cannot find answers for something, They wait to see where evidence leads, while Christians & other religions won't wait for evidence, they throw some paranormal being into the gap.
4) Christians believe that very person has the right to control of their body? Then why do Christians deny Men & Women rights to contraception, or gays rights to control their sexuality or deny women the right to not have to continue a pregnancy?
5) It seems to me that knowing that this life is all you have would led one living life to the fullest in the here and now.
6) It isn't a matter of whether WE will be judged by our actions. Forget the ME and MY being judged. It is a matter of thinking about how our actions affect others.
7) "Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated." has been a principle. long before it became a Christian one.
8) True
9) Straw man argument. Atheists aren't advocating "A society without laws"
[/quote]. Dmmichgood, your number one statement here is what I was referring to on the Dawkins delusion thread. Alvin
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Post by xna on Dec 26, 2014 13:34:42 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Atheism
Dec 26, 2014 13:56:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 13:56:54 GMT -5
confused lady....beieves in Christ yet doesn't believe in an after life then says "IF" there is an after life we have no notion of it?
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Post by xna on Dec 26, 2014 14:05:01 GMT -5
confused lady....beieves in Christ yet doesn't believe in an after life then says "IF" there is an after life we have no notion of it? Perhaps she thinks he was just a man, and not a god, like Thomas Jefferson thought.
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