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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 15:08:45 GMT -5
Post by kencoolidge on Nov 19, 2012 15:08:45 GMT -5
Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist. C.S. Lewis
Atheism is rather in the lip than in the heart of Man. Francis Bacon
The atheist can’t find God for the same reason that a thief can’t find a police officer. - Author Unknown
If you are really a product of a materialistic universe, how is it that you don’t feel at home there? C.S. Lewis
Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
The notion that everyone would like Christianity to be true, and therefore all atheists are brave men who have accepted the defeat of all their deepest desires, is simply impudent nonsense. C.S. Lewis
If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes. It cuts its own throat. C.S. Lewis
It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian. Lee Strobel
I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. C.S. Lewis
If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. C.S. Lewis
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge.” Ravi Zacharias
A comprehended god is no god. John Chrysostom
A man can no more diminish God’s glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word ‘darkness’ on the walls of his cell. C.S. Lewis
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. C.S. Lewis The world embarrasses me, and I cannot think that this watch exists and has no Watchmaker. Voltaire Men may live as if there is no God, but they cannot deny his existence. Sam Storms
He that doth not believe that there is a God, is more vile than a devil. To deny there is a God, is a sort of atheism that is not to be found in hell. Thomas Brooks
An ineffably holy God, who has the utmost abhorrence of sin, was never invented by any of Adam’s descendents. A.W. Pink
The hypocrite, certainly, is a secret atheist; for if he did believe there was a God, he durst not be so bold as to deceive Him to His face. Thomas Adams
Take a nation, tell the people there is no God, tell them there is nothing beyond the grave, and they will lose heart, lose their morale. They will become such a shiftless, lazy, apathetic, lethargic people that you won’t be able to get half of them to work. Many will not be motivated by anything. Shelton Smith
Although God believers don’t need evolution to be false, atheists need evolution to be true. Ann Coulter
If God does not exist, everything is permissible. Fyodor Dostoevsky
What can be more foolish than to think that all this rare fabric of heaven and earth could come by chance, when all the skill of art is not able to make an oyster! Jeremy Taylor
If there were no God, there would be no atheists. G.K. Chesterton
If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning. A.W. Tozer What do you conceive God to be like? Some would say to believe at all in a personal God requires a giant leap of faith – but I am convinced that belief in God is a far more reasonable position than atheism. Nature, the personal experience of literally billions of people, and something innate in the heart of man all testify to the existence of God. George Sweeting Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist. CS. Lewis Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager , then, without hesitation, that God exists. Blaise Pascal I tried atheism for a while, but my faith just wasn’t strong enough. Author Unknown
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 16:16:33 GMT -5
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Nov 19, 2012 16:16:33 GMT -5
Though I am not an atheist, and I do find some of these sayings thought-provoking, I cannot blame those who do not believe in a god, considering the way the Christian God has often been represented and depicted in the world.
I think of two instructors - both of whom I greatly admire - who both say something to the effect that, "I guess I'm an atheist, as I'm just aware of too much that has been done in the name of religion." And is not pride and arrogance, or hypocrisy, a more serious denial of God than the person who finds it difficult to conceive of a God while considering the massive hurt and injustice in this earth?
Personally, I would rather attempt to show someone what kind of god I see, rather than criticizing him/her for not "believing," which is really denying their own set of experiences.
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 16:37:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 16:37:05 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an opportunity once again to invite those who believe in the existence of the Christian God to provide any real and tangible evidence to support the existence a son sending, soul saving, all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, dead raising, heaven ascending, limb restoring, tablet writing, day of judgement judging, loving, caring and just God in reality. Matt10
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 16:39:56 GMT -5
Post by rational on Nov 19, 2012 16:39:56 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an opportunity once again to invite those who believe in the existence of the Christian God to provide any real and tangible evidence to support the existence a son sending, soul saving, all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, dead raising, heaven ascending, limb restoring, tablet writing, day of judgement judging, loving, caring and just God in reality. Matt10 Perhaps even a definition of the paranormal being.
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 16:56:11 GMT -5
Post by guitar on Nov 19, 2012 16:56:11 GMT -5
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 17:03:22 GMT -5
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Nov 19, 2012 17:03:22 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an opportunity once again to invite those who believe in the existence of the Christian God to provide any real and tangible evidence to support the existence a son sending, soul saving, all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, dead raising, heaven ascending, limb restoring, tablet writing, day of judgement judging, loving, caring and just God in reality. Matt10 With all due respect, matt10, though this is how the god of Christianity is still generally depicted, there have been serious, scripturally-based challenges of this "authoritative" understanding of God from Christian theologians at least since the middle of the 20th century, when the disestablishment of Christianity - or "Christiandom," as some now term it - began to be apparent. You may disagree, but I think there is much common ground for talking, but some conceptions held by both Christians and others must be laid aside . . .
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 17:27:31 GMT -5
Post by SharonArnold on Nov 19, 2012 17:27:31 GMT -5
The hypocrite, certainly, is a secret atheist; for if he did believe there was a God, he durst not be so bold as to deceive Him to His face. Thomas Adams Yeah. I tend to think of “God” in pretty practical terms. For anyone professing Christianity or the power of some other religious belief, I tend to measure it in terms of the fruits of the spirit. Nothing else really speaks to me. I have previously expressed the opinion, in a forum like this, that a particular individual (professing to be an atheist) was one of the most “godly” people I knew. I have no idea if this individual got what I was getting at or if I was necessarily consigned to one of those “woo-woo-redefining-word-meanings-to-the-detriment-of-all-meaningful-communication” kinds of people. To me, it really doesn’t matter. A couple of quotes that I have come across recently, that point to “God” in powerful contemporary terms: “Through the present moment, you have access to the power of life itself, that which has been traditionally called God. As soon as you turn away from it, God ceases to be a reality in your life and all you are left with is the mental concept of God, which some people believe in and others deny. Even a belief in God is a poor substitute for the living reality of God manifesting every moment of your life.” - Eckhart Tolle “The most important time in your life is NOW. The most important person in your life is the one you are looking at NOW. The most important thing that you can do in your life is what you are doing NOW. The best way to prepare for the future is to be totally present NOW. Forget all your learnings – just remember that now is the moment that never ends. - Buddhist monk’s words to Deepak Chopra IMO, the extent to which we actually live this (or not) would define our “atheism” (of lack of it). It’s not about words or mental constructs – it is what we make practical in every moment of life.
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 17:36:02 GMT -5
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Nov 19, 2012 17:36:02 GMT -5
IMO, the extent to which we actually live this (or not) would define our “atheism” (of lack of it). It’s not about words or mental constructs – it is what we make practical in every moment of life. I largely agree, Sharon, though I do see the mental constructs as significant, as they point to our own systems of power and authority. We seem to assign characteristics to God that reflect ourselves as a society, though not necessarily each and every individual. Hence, these different ideas and practices inform one another, and can teach us much.
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 17:58:12 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 17:58:12 GMT -5
With all due respect, matt10, though this is how the god of Christianity is still generally depicted, there have been serious, scripturally-based challenges of this "authoritative" understanding of God from Christian theologians at least since the middle of the 20th century, when the disestablishment of Christianity - or "Christiandom," as some now term it - began to be apparent. You may disagree, but I think there is much common ground for talking, but some conceptions held by both Christians and others must be laid aside . . . Alan I’m not sure I follow what you are saying at all. If you are saying that there is no evidence of the God I described then I’m right with you out there. If you’re saying that my conception of the nature of the Christian God is now outdated then perhaps you can provide a more accurate up to date conception of the nature the Christian God and point me towards the evidence for the existence of such a God. I’ll certainly be glad to hear of it. If you’re saying that some of my conceptions of the nature of the Christian God should be laid aside then perhaps it would be useful if you could point out which of my conceptions should be laid aside and which should not. The point is that whatever concept one my have of the Christian God it cannot be supported by real and tangible evidence; and any attempt to do so will inevitably be reduced to providing evidence to support the existence of other non-Christian Gods. Matt10
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 18:33:18 GMT -5
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Nov 19, 2012 18:33:18 GMT -5
With all due respect, matt10, though this is how the god of Christianity is still generally depicted, there have been serious, scripturally-based challenges of this "authoritative" understanding of God from Christian theologians at least since the middle of the 20th century, when the disestablishment of Christianity - or "Christiandom," as some now term it - began to be apparent. You may disagree, but I think there is much common ground for talking, but some conceptions held by both Christians and others must be laid aside . . . Alan I’m not sure I follow what you are saying at all. If you are saying that there is no evidence of the God I described then I’m right with you out there. If you’re saying that my conception of the nature of the Christian God is now outdated then perhaps you can provide a more accurate up to date conception of the nature the Christian God and point me towards the evidence for the existence of such a God. I’ll certainly be glad to hear of it. If you’re saying that some of my conceptions of the nature of the Christian God should be laid aside then perhaps it would be useful if you could point out which of my conceptions should be laid aside and which should not. The point is that whatever concept one my have of the Christian God it cannot be supported by real and tangible evidence; and any attempt to do so will inevitably be reduced to providing evidence to support the existence of other non-Christian Gods. Matt10 Well, I'm not saying just your conceptions of god - I am saying that even the conceptions held by many Christians are not at all those that are upheld by many Christian theologians now. And, when we move from the idea of an absolute, omnipotent, "judgmental" god to one who is anxious transform, there is really nothing to prove, as we're then no longer talking of a god who is ready to torture anyone who doesn't believe things a certain way. One writer I look to a lot - Douglas John Hall - speaks of being "christocentric" as a Christian, but not "Christomonistic" - technical ways of seeing it is a path, and needs to be focused on if that's the path one chooses, but not exclusive as the only path. But, this changes ideas about a lot of things - "salvation," heaven and hell, God's work in the world . . . And, I'm trying to say that atheism makes sense to me, based on the popular conceptions of God, which I no longer hold.
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 22:32:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 22:32:22 GMT -5
Alan, why should we pay any attention to what Christian theologians think? I'd say the first step in seking to understand the true nature of God should be to put away your Bible and cast out all you were taught by anyone who claimed to believe in it. I'm not saying that atheism makes sense to me but I am saying that the existence of a Christian God doesn't. I think you are with me on that; I think our main difference is that I don't need the writings of Douglas John Hall to help persuade me. Matt10
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 23:11:56 GMT -5
Post by JO on Nov 19, 2012 23:11:56 GMT -5
Interesting quote. I expect any lie that has ever been told for "the good of the Christian church" has had the opposite effect to what was intended. I think of the tweaking of scripture to make it fit with theological theories, and I think of lies told about the history of church organisations.
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Atheism
Nov 19, 2012 23:26:04 GMT -5
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Nov 19, 2012 23:26:04 GMT -5
Alan, why should we pay any attention to what Christian theologians think? I'd say the first step in seking to understand the true nature of God should be to put away your Bible and cast out all you were taught by anyone who claimed to believe in it. I'm not saying that atheism makes sense to me but I am saying that the existence of a Christian God doesn't. I think you are with me on that; I think our main difference is that I don't need the writings of Douglas John Hall to help persuade me. Matt10 I agree, matt10, and I don't mean to say that Hall's - or any other - writings should persuade you, me, or anyone. That, in fact, is much of what he is saying - that no one can "own" truth, and impose it on others, and that it cannot be exclusive. For me, it's just something that works for me, and this did come after shutting my bible for a a couple of years, first becoming "agnostic," then exploring Buddhist and Vedic teachings, which I greatly respect, then ultimately delving more deeply into the Judeo-Christian tradition. But, I'm not saying anyone else need do that. It simply works for me, helping me in my every day life, not through a promise of something after death, though I don't necessarily believe death is the end. My purpose in writing here is simply to show, if I can, that some Christians believe and practice in a way that leaves them much more open to other faith traditions, as well as to those with no "spiritual" beliefs. I like mine, but it does not make yours wrong! So, there's nothing to persuade you of, except that I don't feel compelled to convert you . . .
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Atheism
Nov 20, 2012 7:26:35 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Nov 20, 2012 7:26:35 GMT -5
Though I am not an atheist, and I do find some of these sayings thought-provoking, I cannot blame those who do not believe in a god, considering the way the Christian God has often been represented and depicted in the world. I can. As God has been misrepresented it only proves God. I think of two instructors - both of whom I greatly admire - who both say something to the effect that, "I guess I'm an atheist, as I'm just aware of too much that has been done in the name of religion." And is not pride and arrogance, or hypocrisy, a more serious denial of God than the person who finds it difficult to conceive of a God while considering the massive hurt and injustice in this earth? I would bet money that Jesus felt tempted to deny God but humbling himself, did not. Personally, I would rather attempt to show someone what kind of god I see, rather than criticizing him/her for not "believing," which is really denying their own set of experiences. But their experiences prove the existence of God if only they'd interpret them fairly.
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Atheism
Nov 20, 2012 7:41:17 GMT -5
Post by kencoolidge on Nov 20, 2012 7:41:17 GMT -5
Interesting quote. I expect any lie that has ever been told for "the good of the Christian church" has had the opposite effect to what was intended. I think of the tweaking of scripture to make it fit with theological theories, and I think of lies told about the history of church organisations. JO Lots of lies told that ended up with a good result Rahab, David and Abraham come to mind .
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Atheism
Nov 20, 2012 8:31:18 GMT -5
Post by rational on Nov 20, 2012 8:31:18 GMT -5
But their experiences prove the existence of God if only they'd interpret them fairly. Can you back this up with an example?
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 0:14:55 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Nov 21, 2012 0:14:55 GMT -5
darknessuthor=kencoolidge board=general thread=20043 post=497415 time=1353355725]
1)Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist. C.S. Lewis
2)Atheism is rather in the lip than in the heart of Man. Francis Bacon
3)The atheist can’t find God for the same reason that a thief can’t find a police officer. - Author Unknown
4)If you are really a product of a materialistic universe, how is it that you don’t feel at home there? C.S. Lewis
5)Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
6)The notion that everyone would like Christianity to be true, and therefore all atheists are brave men who have accepted the defeat of all their deepest desires, is simply impudent nonsense. C.S. Lewis
7)If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes. It cuts its own throat. C.S. Lewis
8)It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian. Lee Strobel
9)I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. C.S. Lewis
10)If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. C.S. Lewis
12)To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge.” Ravi Zacharias
12)A comprehended god is no god. John Chrysostom
13)A man can no more diminish God’s glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word ‘darkness’ on the walls of his cell. C.S. Lewis
14)Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. C.S. Lewis 15)The world embarrasses me, and I cannot think that this watch exists and has no Watchmaker. Voltaire
16)Men may live as if there is no God, but they cannot deny his existence. Sam Storms
17)He that doth not believe that there is a God, is more vile than a devil. To deny there is a God, is a sort of atheism that is not to be found in hell. Thomas Brooks
18)An ineffably holy God, who has the utmost abhorrence of sin, was never invented by any of Adam’s descendents. A.W. Pink
19)The hypocrite, certainly, is a secret atheist; for if he did believe there was a God, he durst not be so bold as to deceive Him to His face. Thomas Adams
20)Take a nation, tell the people there is no God, tell them there is nothing beyond the grave, and they will lose heart, lose their morale. They will become such a shiftless, lazy, apathetic, lethargic people that you won’t be able to get half of them to work. Many will not be motivated by anything. Shelton Smith
21)Although God believers don’t need evolution to be false, atheists need evolution to be true. Ann Coulter
22)If God does not exist, everything is permissible. Fyodor Dostoevsky
23)What can be more foolish than to think that all this rare fabric of heaven and earth could come by chance, when all the skill of art is not able to make an oyster! Jeremy Taylor
24)If there were no God, there would be no atheists. G.K. Chesterton
25)If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning. A.W. Tozer 26)What do you conceive God to be like? Some would say to believe at all in a personal God requires a giant leap of faith – but I am convinced that belief in God is a far more reasonable position than atheism. Nature, the personal experience of literally billions of people, and something innate in the heart of man all testify to the existence of God. George Sweeting 27)Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist. CS. Lewis 28)Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager , then, without hesitation, that God exists. Blaise Pascal 29)I tried atheism for a while, but my faith just wasn’t strong enough. Author Unknown[/quote]
1) I don't rage against god. Why should I rage against someone I don't find enough evidence to believe exists?
2) Well, maybe for Francis Bacon, Bacon was a man.-but not for this woman!
3) Would comparing an atheist to a thief be as distastefull to an atheist -as it would be to god to be compared a police officer? emmh..
4) But I do feel at home here! Does C. L. Lewis think he speaks for all men (& women)?
5) Great example of circular thinking!
6 ) No, what we did except was that certain psychologicall desires were entwined with human evolutionary but that we didn't have to any longer be forced see them as a need for a father figure to meet our psychologicall desires.
( I have to get to bed- big day tomorrow! You know, all that Thanksgiving day cooking!)
( that doesn't mean I am thanking a supernatural being called god.-none of what I'm thankful for needs to come from any supernaturall being.)
I will see you later & finish up this post!
Meantime, I wish everyone a happy thanksgiving day!
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Deleted
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 8:32:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 8:32:46 GMT -5
This thread seems to have been started with the simple purpose of expressing contempt for folks of a particular belief -- as if their personal belief made them somehow less intelligent, or less worthy members of the human race. Or?? Although I am am somewhat of a believer -- I know there are equally logical and equally sarcastic quotes that refer to believers in religion. The purpose of it all is
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 8:43:21 GMT -5
Post by ghost on Nov 21, 2012 8:43:21 GMT -5
When all is said about atheism - and I do agree with Edgar about the usefulness of this thread - the true message will remain:
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 12:41:50 GMT -5
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 21, 2012 12:41:50 GMT -5
Matt10, you might read some John Spong or Marcus Borg if you are interested in a more current Christian God.
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 13:48:44 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 13:48:44 GMT -5
Matt10, you might read some John Spong or Marcus Borg if you are interested in a more current Christian God. Thanks DD. However I'm rather clinging to the principle that if the Christian God desires that I should know more about him, he will reveal himself to me. But so far nothing. Which is fine with me. Matt10
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 16:20:47 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Nov 21, 2012 16:20:47 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an opportunity once again to invite those who believe in the existence of the Christian God to provide any real and tangible evidence to support the existence a son sending, soul saving, all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, dead raising, heaven ascending, limb restoring, tablet writing, day of judgement judging, loving, caring and just God in reality. Matt10 1) Near Death experience from a church's pastor. One of the Best Video of Heaven/God, Hell and Angelswww.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7mtcJ748U&feature=related 2) Ian McCormack - NDE - former atheist - near death experience www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTU7MfOgDKM&feature=related3) The New Jerusalem in heavenwww.youtube.com/watch?v=270TG23ZmKc&feature=relatedNathan ,you have been through all those before!
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 22:24:00 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Nov 21, 2012 22:24:00 GMT -5
But their experiences prove the existence of God if only they'd interpret them fairly. Can you back this up with an example? No. I don't believe in atheists. There's only liars, intellectual dissemblers, and the deeply grieved. No matter how much ones experiences or observations were to militate against homo sapien's indisputable conviction that life must be ultimately and supremely ordered and meaningful, it would only indicate that humankind were either supremely immature or has otherwise been provisionally disordered and enslaved.
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Atheism
Nov 21, 2012 23:55:28 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Nov 21, 2012 23:55:28 GMT -5
Can you back this up with an example? No. I don't believe in atheists. There's only liars, intellectual dissemblers, and the deeply grieved. No matter how much ones experiences or observations were to militate against homo sapien's indisputable conviction that life must be ultimately and supremely ordered and meaningful, it would only indicate that humankind were either supremely immature or has otherwise been provisionally disordered and enslaved. I don't believe in ghosts either (except the one here on TMB) ;D
Don't believe pots of gold at the end of the rainbow, or fairies, nor bogarts
Neither, the Roman, Greek or Scandinavian gods either.
I'm not a "liar" nor intellectual dissembler ( I'm really not THAT intellectual) nor am I "deeply" grieved.
I got over the "deeply grieved" part when I got over the "lies" perpetuated by the 2by2s hierarchy ( and other Christian religions)
THAT was when I BECAME mature became much less disordered & enslaved
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Atheism
Nov 22, 2012 0:51:51 GMT -5
Post by faune on Nov 22, 2012 0:51:51 GMT -5
When all is said about atheism - and I do agree with Edgar about the usefulness of this thread - the true message will remain: Ghost ~ I loved your post! I needed a good laugh for today and you supplied me with one!
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Atheism
Nov 23, 2012 17:30:38 GMT -5
Post by ghost on Nov 23, 2012 17:30:38 GMT -5
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Atheism
Nov 24, 2012 0:32:20 GMT -5
Post by guitar on Nov 24, 2012 0:32:20 GMT -5
Nathan you should quote scripture without changing it.
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Atheism
Nov 24, 2012 2:00:20 GMT -5
Post by guitar on Nov 24, 2012 2:00:20 GMT -5
I like it the way it is
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