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Post by where on Nov 30, 2006 22:15:04 GMT -5
Any opinions? any verses?
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Post by well one verse on Nov 30, 2006 22:21:55 GMT -5
I John 2:22, says that trinitarians are 'liars' huh? ok, any more verses?
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Post by Good luck on Nov 30, 2006 22:35:00 GMT -5
Good luck getting any intelligent dialogue going on this subject. Most people are weary of dealing with this ________(insert your own descriptive term) that just responded to you. The verse he quoted talks about Jesus being raised from the dead, as if that somehow proves Jesus wasn't deity. To that, I'd refer him to the verse where Jesus says he will raise himself from the dead. If you want edifying dialogue about a serious subject such as this, I'd suggest the forums at www.bible.org
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my understanding is
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Post by my understanding is on Nov 30, 2006 22:36:31 GMT -5
If you believe Jesus is God [one god]
and you believe God is God [second god]
Then you are believing in: 2 Gods.
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Post by Your understanding on Nov 30, 2006 22:53:02 GMT -5
If you believe Jesus is God [one god]
and you believe God is God [second god]
Then you are believing in: 2 Gods.
Your understanding is wrong. No trinitarian believes this - not that that would matter to you. You just distort and twist to suit whatever whim you desire to float at any given moment.
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Post by Steeped in self on Nov 30, 2006 22:55:32 GMT -5
Can someone tell me which Bible version renders the end of John 1:1 as: "...and what the Word was, God was." Instead of "...and the Word was God" Does anyone know the Greek well enough to comment on this?
Regards, Steeped
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Post by Either on Nov 30, 2006 23:08:20 GMT -5
Can someone tell me which Bible version renders the end of John 1:1 as: "...and what the Word was, God was." Instead of "...and the Word was God"
I was just reading about this a couple of weeks ago and it is the version used either by Mormons, JWs or Christian Scientists. Can't remember which one, but it's one of 'em.
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Post by Hope For All on Nov 30, 2006 23:15:09 GMT -5
I John 2:22, says that trinitarians are 'liars' huh? ok, any more verses? No comment.
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Post by Heres a couple on Nov 30, 2006 23:56:42 GMT -5
1 Tim 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim 4:9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
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Post by A couple more on Dec 1, 2006 0:29:17 GMT -5
Titus 2:9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
Luke 1:46And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord 47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, 48for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant.
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Post by Heres some more on Dec 1, 2006 0:36:20 GMT -5
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
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Post by Of course on Dec 1, 2006 0:38:20 GMT -5
Of course, there's also the long list of the more familiar verses also. Do you want them too, or is this enough
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Post by 9Iyfaub on Dec 1, 2006 1:59:54 GMT -5
I noticed that in both of your quotes from Peter and Titus you have quoted exactly word for what is said but omitted a word that changes the meaning of the whole sentence....why would you do that???
[glow=red,2,300] 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ[/glow]
[glow=red,2,300]1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:[/glow]
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Post by exmcarq on Dec 1, 2006 2:11:58 GMT -5
God is our Saviour. If it wasn't for the goodness of God none of us would be saved. God sent his only begotten Son to Earth to die for us.
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Post by gwjnvwy on Dec 1, 2006 2:15:23 GMT -5
Imagine that....No man comes to God but through Jesus.
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Post by lugftbc on Dec 1, 2006 2:18:00 GMT -5
I just wanted to add....as strong of a Christian that we feel Stephen was...he still recognized his need of Jesus to make him blameless before God.
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To the lettered one
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Post by To the lettered one on Dec 1, 2006 8:26:03 GMT -5
You're kicking against the pricks.
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To the lettered one
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Post by To the lettered one on Dec 1, 2006 8:27:27 GMT -5
I'll try again.
You're kicking against the p r i c k s.
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Post by sjg on Dec 1, 2006 8:41:17 GMT -5
Any opinions? any verses? Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
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Post by The word on Dec 1, 2006 9:44:01 GMT -5
I noticed that in both of your quotes from Peter and Titus you have quoted exactly word for what is said but omitted a word that changes the meaning of the whole sentence....why would you do that???
I didn't leave any word out. If you look at most other versions of the bible you'll see this much more clearly. They don't contradict each other. Most will say something to this effect - "God our Savior". The KJV says "our God and Savior". If you'd take your blinders off you'd realize that they are saying the same thing.
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Dec 1, 2006 10:14:12 GMT -5
Sigh. Here we go again. Why was Jesus worshipped by Thomas and by the Magi?
You anti-trinitarians sound like the Jehovah Witness man that came to my door. We got into a discussion of the Trinity which he did not believe in and tried to say that in Is. 9:6, the writer was referring to "another god". I said that all other gods are false - why would the writer call Jesus a false god. And then he mentioned the prayer verses...when Jesus was praying was He praying to himself.. etc. No, of course not I said. Jesus was 100% human as well as He is divine and needed to pray.. Ack! Around and around it goes.
If you anti-trinitarians don't believe that Jesus is God the Son, who do you believe He is? A specially created being? An angel? Just a human being? A prophet?
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Throughout the Whole Bible
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Post by Throughout the Whole Bible on Dec 1, 2006 11:04:32 GMT -5
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lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 11:29:53 GMT -5
Acts 10:38 "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power.." This reference makes it clear that there are three separate beings. I like to think of the three as pieces of a pie. Each are separate but all need to be together to make up the whole pie. This verse in Acts mentions each of the three, but all put together are one. Take one away, and there is something missing. Make sense? Actually, does it really matter if this argument is "won" by anyone? Let's just live by the teachings of Jesus, given by God and promoted through the Holy Spirit.
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lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 11:30:15 GMT -5
Acts 10:38 "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power.." This reference makes it clear that there are three separate beings. I like to think of the three as pieces of a pie. Each are separate but all need to be together to make up the whole pie. This verse in Acts mentions each of the three, but all put together are one. Take one away, and there is something missing. Make sense? Actually, does it really matter if this argument is "won" by anyone? Let's just live by the teachings of Jesus, given by God and promoted through the Holy Spirit.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Dec 1, 2006 11:56:13 GMT -5
Actually, does it really matter if this argument is "won" by anyone? Let's just live by the teachings of Jesus, given by God and promoted through the Holy Spirit. I think the issue matters for one reason being that many who consider Jesus to be just a man seem to be quite righteous in their works. "I'm right because I try harder and am more obedient to the the word of God, just as Jesus denied his own self and was totally obedient. So, why shouldn't I do the best I can?" Also, Jesus said not all who call him Lord will enter the kingdom and to some/many he will say "I know ye not."
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Post by juste on Dec 1, 2006 13:02:28 GMT -5
I noticed that in both of your quotes from Peter and Titus you have quoted exactly word for what is said but omitted a word that changes the meaning of the whole sentence....why would you do that???I didn't leave any word out. ;God our Savior". The KJV says "our God and ' our' Savior". If you'd take your blinders. you left out ' our'.
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lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 15:32:22 GMT -5
Do we all agree that Jesus had a divine nature and the nature of man? It is beyond our comprehension isn't it?
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Post by yep on Dec 1, 2006 15:43:09 GMT -5
To me it is one verse that says all we have to know that Jesus is God. Matt 1:23. If Jesus isn't God explain that verse.
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