lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 15:49:43 GMT -5
To me it is one verse that says all we have to know that Jesus is God. Matt 1:23. If Jesus isn't God explain that verse. You could substiute your mane for Emmanuel and your father's name for God. For example let's say your name is Joe and your father is Jeff. "they shal call his name Joe which being interpreted is Jeff." In other words, the son is a part of the father, not THE Father.
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lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 15:50:08 GMT -5
Woops. Name, not mane.
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Post by True on Dec 1, 2006 16:51:54 GMT -5
you left out 'our'.
Depends on the verse and translation I suppose, but the point still stands - Jesus is our God and our Savior. Some translations would make that statement Jesus is our God and Savior.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 1, 2006 16:56:31 GMT -5
To me it is one verse that says all we have to know that Jesus is God. Matt 1:23. If Jesus isn't God explain that verse. You could substiute your mane for Emmanuel and your father's name for God. For example let's say your name is Joe and your father is Jeff. "they shal call his name Joe which being interpreted is Jeff." In other words, the son is a part of the father, not THE Father. No trinitarian believes that the Son is the Father. Also, you mis-paraphrased Matthew 1:23, which says "God with us."
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Post by again on Dec 1, 2006 17:12:20 GMT -5
You could substiute your mane for Emmanuel and your father's name for God. For example let's say your name is Joe and your father is Jeff. "they shal call his name Joe which being interpreted is Jeff." In other words, the son is a part of the father, not THE Father. No trinitarian believes that the Son is the Father. Also, you mis-paraphrased Matthew 1:23, which says "God with us."It takes two or [three] to make God,eh? That is why it is confusing? God is Father, Jesus is the Son. I refuse to disreguard the importance of stating they are equal and therefore EACH can be reguarded seperately and individually. IMO and this is why I believe it so.
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Post by Hope For All on Dec 1, 2006 18:30:11 GMT -5
You just said "I refuse to disreguard the importance of stating they are equal and therefore EACH can be reguarded seperately and individually."
Hello??
For about a month now, I have been TRYING to say the same thing and you have accused me of being egotistical, heretical, having the spirit of the anti-Christ etc etc. by making Jesus equal to God.
To me "God" is NOT just a name- it is also the absolute highest divine nature, essence, power (what ever you want to call it) that is ONLY possessed in it's purest form by The Father, Son and The Holy Spirit.
We as humans can possess some of this nature, but ONLY the Father, Son and Holy Spirit possess this in it's pure totallity so that we can worship all three equally and individually- yet as one God (or Godhead if you will).
HFA
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Post by Bingo on Dec 1, 2006 20:14:14 GMT -5
You just said "I refuse to disreguard the importance of stating they are equal and therefore EACH can be reguarded seperately and individually."Our man actually believes in the Trinity - he just doesn't know it yet. There's hope
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Post by 1ib8e6q on Dec 1, 2006 20:24:20 GMT -5
Hi Lizzy,
You said:
I absolutely agree with this. That is why I say Jesus is not God. God never had a human nature. Jesus is of God but he is not God the Almighty. Those that say Jesus is God believe that Jesus could not fail here on earth. If Jesus could not fail then he was not fully Human just as you and me are and he could never have been tempted or tested as we are.
Jesus had his own free will here on Earth and had a human nature just as we do. Now if Jesus had his own free will and Jesus had a Human Nature then Jesus could have failed just as we do. Jesus did not fail because he walked in the Spirit and got his strength from God. That is why Jesus is a just Judge. That is why Jesus is our mediator...he is touched by our infirmities and intercedes on our behalf to God his Father and our Father.
Jesus is one with his Father....and so are we. All those who belong to God are one with him. They are one in Spirit. Some people quite simply will never understand this unless they experience it. It is a oneness that words can not express. That does not mean that everyone is God. It just means they are one with him....and the Son....and the Holy Ghost and each other.
I will not take on this same type of Spirit.
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Post by TOO LATE on Dec 1, 2006 20:41:27 GMT -5
I will not take on this same type of Spirit. TOO LATE, YOU ALREADY DID.
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lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 20:45:50 GMT -5
A guest here stated the following regarding my post.
"I absolutely agree with this. That is why I say Jesus is not God. God never had a human nature. Jesus is of God but he is not God the Almighty."
Amen! I do wish more of you would register so we could PM one another.
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Post by N9 to on Dec 1, 2006 20:52:57 GMT -5
Hi Lizzy, You said: I absolutely agree with this. That is why I say Jesus is not God. God never had a human nature. Jesus is of God but he is not God the Almighty. Those that say Jesus is God believe that Jesus could not fail here on earth. If Jesus could not fail then he was not fully Human just as you and me are and he could never have been tempted or tested as we are. You wrote that Jesus is NOT God. Yes, I agree Jesus is NOT God the Father but God the Son/Yahweh Almighty God.... (Revelation 1:8) Jesus said "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which WAS! and which IS to come the "ALMIGHTY." So... What do you think when Jesus says He is the Almighty? It is the Almighty God? What is your opinion.
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Post by x4bxeae on Dec 1, 2006 20:54:26 GMT -5
Yeah I guess you are right in a way....I should have just kept my mouth shut period.
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Post by guest55 on Dec 1, 2006 21:17:45 GMT -5
You just said "I refuse to disreguard the importance of stating they are equal and therefore EACH can be reguarded seperately and individually." by making Jesus equal to God. To me "God" is NOT just a name- it is also the absolute highest divine nature, essence, power (what ever you want to call it) that is ONLY possessed in it's purest form by The Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. We as humans can possess some of this nature, but ONLY the Father, Son and Holy Spirit possess this in it's pure totallity so that we can worship all three equally and individually- yet as one God (or Godhead if you will). HFA I can appreciate what you are saying, but there is a misunderstanding of the context that I stated what I stated, and seeing we are having wknd off, I will save my reply for later. But nonethe less Jesus said,... that He considered it NOT 'robbery' to be equal to God. That is what Jesus said, and we believe Him. Why do we believe Him? Because we have already been made to know that God gave all things to His Son. How could God give all things to His Son? Because God is infinite, and His riches are infinite {God, as we already have agreed is a seperate being from His Son, right?} Ok, God gave all things to His Son, really is saying that He is giving His Son all He has, yet, God is infinite, and infinite riches are NEVER ending {see: the parable of the barrel of oil, it never ceased supplying ,etc} therfore God still has infinite riches. God allowed Jesus to take our place on calvary. Now , He is in heaven and God has given Him His throne....they are devoted to each other, and Jesus did not feel it 'robbery' to being equal to God. Since Jesus is able to understand what He meant by that statement, and I do not fully understand it, because I have not seen God, but Jesus has. If we subtract some of what Jesus said, and , saying He was[{notice left out}[not feeling it robbery] equal to God . It may have raised some questions about this not actually being the case, but as Jesus said, He was given permission {He did not 'rob' God} to have all things the Father had, It is plain that ALL things did originally belong to God, and that Jesus at some point in time, received all things from God. wow I think I may have lost you as this subject is quite a bit over my head, but I was doing my best, MY FRIEND , to explain what it is that I am meditating on, as far as this subject is concerned, It often seems easy to comprehend for me, but when I try to explain it, it gets way to wordy, and is still quite lacking in all it should be, I HOPE you accept my feeble effort and please feel free to share your thots, too.
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lizzy
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 21:58:54 GMT -5
Hi Lizzy, You said: I absolutely agree with this. That is why I say Jesus is not God. God never had a human nature. Jesus is of God but he is not God the Almighty. Those that say Jesus is God believe that Jesus could not fail here on earth. If Jesus could not fail then he was not fully Human just as you and me are and he could never have been tempted or tested as we are. You wrote that Jesus is NOT God. Yes, I agree Jesus is NOT God the Father but God the Son/Yahweh Almighty God.... (Revelation 1:8) Jesus said "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which WAS! and which IS to come the "ALMIGHTY." So... What do you think when Jesus says He is the Almighty? It is the Almighty God? What is your opinion. Hmm, this is a hard one. I like that you see that Jesus is NOT God the Father, but, "God the Son?" I don't think so. How about the Son of God.
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Post by to Lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 22:08:36 GMT -5
[quote author=N9 to (Revelation 1:8) Jesus said "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which WAS! and which IS to come Hmm, this is a hard one. I like that you see that Jesus is NOT God the Father, but, "God the Son?" I don't think so. How about the Son of God.Jesus is the alpha and omega. Thru Him time began {alpha} , then again thru Him [His return] , time will end. {omega} then will come endless DAY. God is also alpha and omega, because He determines when these events will [or did] , occur. We both agree that God is the Father and Jesus is the \Son of God.
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Post by Brick on Dec 1, 2006 22:09:09 GMT -5
How about the Son of God. Yeah. I think that might be in the Bible a time or two.
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Post by N9 to Lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 22:13:31 GMT -5
You wrote that Jesus is NOT God. Yes, I agree Jesus is NOT God the Father but God the Son/Yahweh Almighty God.... (Revelation 1:8) Jesus said "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which WAS! and which IS to come the "ALMIGHTY." So... What do you think when Jesus says He is the Almighty? It is the Almighty God? What is your opinion. Hmm, this is a hard one. I like that you see that Jesus is NOT God the Father, but, "God the Son?" I don't think so. How about the Son of God. ;D Jesus is the Son of God and also God the Son. Lizzy, do you believe Jesus/Christ existed in the form of God= Deity or Divine liken unto His heavenly Father "before" he was begotten as Jesus the Son of Man and the Son of God? Let us discuss this reasonably so please fire your questions away.
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Post by N9 to Lizzy on Dec 1, 2006 22:59:58 GMT -5
Do we all agree that Jesus had a divine nature and the nature of man? It is beyond our comprehension isn't it? Yes, I agree with you 100% about Jesus has "BOTH" Divine/human natures within Him. Jesus was the Yahweh/LORD Almighty God in the Old Testament when he was with His heavenly Father "before" he came to earth. In (Matthew 1:23) The Yahweh/LORD God (the Son) begotten the nature of Man through the Mary's genes and body. (Matthew 1:18-23)
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Dec 1, 2006 23:47:37 GMT -5
A guest here stated the following regarding my post. "I absolutely agree with this. That is why I say Jesus is not God. God never had a human nature. Jesus is of God but he is not God the Almighty." Amen! I do wish more of you would register so we could PM one another. God the Father never had a human nature... Correct. God the Son does have a human nature... Correct. God (God the Son) does have a human nature... Do you know the difference between God the Father and God the Son?
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Dec 1, 2006 23:49:32 GMT -5
Hmm, this is a hard one. I like that you see that Jesus is NOT God the Father, but, "God the Son?" I don't think so. How about the Son of God. He is both... He is God the Son and the Son of God... He is also the rock, the First and Last, the IAM, the Shepard, the Savior, the creator, Judge, King, and the Light... www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusisgod.htm
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Post by toHFA on Dec 2, 2006 4:52:35 GMT -5
You just said "I refuse to disreguard the importance of stating they are equal and therefore EACH can be reguarded seperately and individually." by making Jesus equal to God. To me "God" is NOT just a name- it is also the absolute highest divine nature, essence, power (what ever you want to call it) that is ONLY possessed in it's purest form by The Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. We as humans can possess some of this nature, but ONLY the Father, Son and Holy Spirit possess this in it's pure totallity so that we can worship all three equally and individually- yet as one God (or Godhead if you will). HFA I can appreciate what you are saying, but there is a misunderstanding of the context that I stated what I stated, and seeing we are having wknd off, I will save my reply for later. But nonethe less Jesus said,... that He considered it NOT 'robbery' to be equal to God. That is what Jesus said, and we believe Him. Why do we believe Him? Because we have already been made to know that God gave all things to His Son.
How could God give all things to His Son? Because God is infinite, and His riches are infinite {God, as we already have agreed is a seperate being from His Son, right?} Ok, God gave all things to His Son, really is saying that He is giving His Son all He has, yet, God is infinite, and infinite riches are NEVER ending {see: the parable of the barrel of oil, it never ceased supplying ,etc} therfore God still has infinite riches.
God allowed Jesus to take our place on calvary. Now , He is in heaven and God has given Him His throne....they are devoted to each other, and Jesus did not feel it 'robbery' to being equal to God. Since Jesus is able to understand what He meant by that statement, and I do not fully understand it, because I have not seen God, but Jesus has. If we subtract some of what Jesus said, and , saying He was[{notice left out}[not feeling it robbery]equal to God . It may have raised some questions about this not actually being the case, but as Jesus said, He was given permission {He did not 'rob' God} to have all things the Father had, It is plain that ALL things did originally belong to God, and that Jesus at some point in time, received all things from God.
wow I think I may have lost you as this subject is quite a bit over my head, but I was doing my best, MY FRIEND , to explain what it is that I am meditating on, as far as this subject is concerned, It often seems easy to comprehend for me, but when I try to explain it, it gets way to wordy, and is still quite lacking in all it should be, I HOPE you accept my feeble effort and please feel free to share your thots, too.beammeup
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Post by One more verse on Dec 2, 2006 10:47:08 GMT -5
One of my favorites
Rom 9:5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! (NIV)
5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (ESV)
5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (ASV)
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (KJV)
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Post by studylearning on Dec 2, 2006 12:08:12 GMT -5
1Tm:1:11: According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1Tm:3:16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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Post by robb on Dec 2, 2006 17:07:31 GMT -5
Some people are robbing from God, the things that are God's
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Post by 28kt4k7 on Dec 2, 2006 17:31:11 GMT -5
If this means Jesus was God:
Then this must mean we are Jesus:
[glow=red,2,300]2 Corinthians 4:
11For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
Does this mean that some humans are Jesus?[/glow]
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Post by nc9zevh on Dec 2, 2006 17:32:20 GMT -5
...........And sense we are Jesus....we must be God too.
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Post by to guest on Dec 2, 2006 17:48:46 GMT -5
...........And sense we are Jesus....we must be God too. surely you are jestin... ;D scary to think where the mormans extrapolated their doctrines, but as we note the growth, it seems that it has attracted some clever minds in the process, no. I was wondering if it is even possible to be both human/finite and infinite at the same time. I do NOT believe it can be done, it seems quite IMPOSSIBLE in fact, what do you say?
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Post by How Come on Dec 3, 2006 0:38:03 GMT -5
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