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Post by Jessi on Jun 13, 2006 22:51:37 GMT -5
" I can’t let something that is accursed over my threshold--I may love that person and want to help him, but as I am trying to snatch him from the fire . . . what if I fall in? What if he gets comfortable in my house and lulls me? That's what satan does. He dresses as an angel of light (II Cor 11:13)." Impossible. The elect cannot be deceived. It is not possible. The gates of hell stand very well if they are never attacked. Greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world. Karl I guess all the warnings in the Bible that about being deceived were for the non-elect . . . Christ is Lord, Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Jun 13, 2006 23:06:58 GMT -5
Hi Jessi, So are you saying that we shouldn't really bring it up but to just be there, show them love and wait until they have a receptive heart? How did you find out? For me it wasn't until many years after leaving that someone asked me..."Do you know what the Gospel is?" I really couldn't answer. It started me searching, reading, studying, looking on the internet. What a blessing that was! Amazed: I don’t know what will work anymore. I just try to engage error whenever possible. I am not so very patient, so waiting doesn’t work for me. God is working with me! The Holy Spirit regenerates, much as I TRY to take on the task! They keep saying, "Wait on the Lord." OK. I'm trying. Concerning how I found out: My brother told me to punch in CHURCH WITH NO NAME ON THE COMPUTER in 97. A blessing. Indeed it was. Yep, it was like you said. Started searching. Since then, I’ve heard plenty of the non-specific, no scripture, watered down, entertainment, health and wealth HAVE A GREAT TIME IN THIS LIFE and GOD IS ALL INCLUSIVE gospel. For years I have tried to watch TV programs from churches, and I saw prayer meetings and “healings.” Visited different churches. It was a lot of drivel. I went to church once in a very great while, and it was all the same. There was the 2x2 guilt of apostasy hanging over my head. But mostly, I’d have to say, I ALWAYS left hungry in my soul. Until two years ago, I hated the thought of going to church. I could not stomach that THIS was all there was . . . no explanation, no concrete meaning. Just a bunch of stories and God loves you and FEEL GOOD . . . Be warm and be filled (James 2:15). UNTIL I FOUND FAITH BIBLE CHURCH. I found the church in the Yellow Pages on a Saturday night! I had a pink highlighter and the big phone book. Saw a huge, hopeless list of churches. I didn’t know how to look for a church. I read under the caption, FAITH BIBLE CHURCH and then another Bible Church and a Church of Christ. I circled them all. Then I saw under Faith Bible Church, all upper case letters that read, “VERSE BY VERSE EXPOSITION! I bit my knuckles! Could it be true? Could there actually be a place that explained the Bible VERSE BY VERSE? I tore out the page. The book fell to the floor with a thud. Oh, yes! That was for me. The only thing that got my attention as an EX 2x2 was that the WORD would finally be explained and I could search the scriptures as they were told to me and see if these things were so (Acts 17:11). I will not accept that a Christian does not NEED to study the Word of God. It is his bread. It is also his duty (Deut 6:4+). Christ’s Forever, Jessi
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Post by 2 jessy on Jun 13, 2006 23:17:43 GMT -5
so you believe that an elect person can be lost. didn't jesus say that no one could take the ones that the father had given to him out of his hands?
what are you doing here among false people then? do you think that satan can only deceive in person?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 13, 2006 23:20:41 GMT -5
Jessi- I'm not going to argue with you, or get into a proof texting debate. If you do not feel safe, or not enabled to do this, then by all means don't. But all over the new testament there are commands to be among the world, boldly declaring what we know to be true. I do believe that mature, born again, transformed new creations have nothing to fear from the false teachers, disciples of the false religious systems. Can we be fooled? Maybe at first, but the Spirit and the Word will discern for us what is true and what is false. Who is going to tell them though, if Christ's body does not? We are a city on a hill, we are the light of the world, we are the salt of the earth, we are His priests cooperating in His redemptive work- and we have been commanded to testify of Him without fear. Paul went into the synagogues and to the pagan philsophers- weren't those "false" ? I really don't wan't to argue this, but if we are to have a spirit of boldness, not of fear, and we are to be in the world and not of it- I don't know how not talking to certain groups because we are afraid they will corrupt our walk/relationship with God when there are no other factors (physical safety, propriety, addictions we may give in to, etc. ), gives testimony to what we claim is the transforming dynamic power of our faith and our God. If you really want more scripture, aside from all of the one that I have mentioned/aluded to- read Jude. Peace Karl I never said I feared anything, Karl. Is it possible that a new Christian could invite a false teacher in their house? Here they are, new, not mature. They could be deceived. I didn't say any of these things you wrote in your non-argument- keep out of the world, fear of the world, don't talk to certain groups because we are afraid, and false prophets, don't engage, I don't know where you got all that from. Most of what I said cannot be found in your non-argumentative point paper above. The term (ELECT) is now changed to mature, born again, transformed new creations? How can you be mature and new? Are you mature straight out of the gate, or do you put on the new man and IMMEDIATELY become mature and . . . undeceivable? I have an observation, which I fully expect will be fully distorted! But I am working on patience . . . So be it. If faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17), then does one read the Bible and get just enough to get saving faith in Christ and then that’s it? One needs study no more? How does one grow and MATURE in the Lord? How DOES one (ELECT and REGENERATED) grow into Karl’s MATURE, BORN AGAIN, CHRISTIAN that CANNOT BE DECEIVED? II Tim 2:15 “Deceived” is not synonymous with “lost.” Or “unchosen”): The elect CAN be deceived but the evil one CANNOT have them in the end (John 17:15, Phili 1:6). 2 Cor 11:3, Titus 3:3, James, 1:16, Mark 13:20, John 13:18, Mark 13:5, 8, John 6:70, 7:47. But no arguing. Only speaking the truth in love. I will not argue about this further. No. Stop it. No more LALALALALALALALALA. Peace Forever in Christ, Jessi
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Post by 2 jessy on Jun 13, 2006 23:24:08 GMT -5
your maturity is showing lalala
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Post by Rob O on Jun 13, 2006 23:30:09 GMT -5
I interpret Jessi to mean (s)he is struggling with his/her own propensity to argue and is fighting the temptation to do so. I did not take it to mean Jessi was saying "I'm right and that's the final word and nothing you have to say will change my mind."
By saying "No. Stop it. No more LALA...." I understood Jessi to be fighting his/her own impulses rather than attempting to shout down Karl.
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Post by selah on Jun 13, 2006 23:43:47 GMT -5
Hi Jessi,
Is Faith Bible Church a "KJV only" church? Is it a Bible Baptist church?
Bessings, Linda
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Post by Jessi on Jun 13, 2006 23:47:04 GMT -5
so you believe that an elect person can be lost. didn't jesus say that no one could take the ones that the father had given to him out of his hands? what are you doing here among false people then? do you think that satan can only deceive in person? NO, 2 Jessy. I did not say that. I do not believe elect can be lost. You are absolutely right. In John 10:28, Jesus says, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. I said DECEIVED. There isn't anything in the Bible that says the elect will not FALL (perhaps INTO THE FLAMES WAS A LITTLE TOO STRONG A SYMBOLISM--I shoulda said BURNT)! Peter denied the Lord three times and CURSED his Name the last time! But the Lord in His grace, restored him. Do you think a prophet, a holy man of God can be deceived . . . be lied to? Do you think a prophet, a holy man of God can deceive someone else . . . lie? Read I Kings 13 and let me know what you think. If even a prophet can be deceived, I must be careful, that's all I'm saying. I'm not afraid. Jesus hung out among FALSE PEOPLE. Do you mean on this website? Or am I among false people in some other way? Not sure what you mean, OK? If you mean here on these boards, that is not the same as inviting a person into my home to get cozy with me. I can ask a question. I can engage error. I can read my Bible and refer to my books. I can call my pastor. I can get away from them. Sitting in a gospel meeting for me, would be disobeying what the Bible says, and putting myself under false teaching on purpose. Satan. Hmmm. No. I don't think so. People can be "filled with Satan" and do his work for him - But Satan deceived Eve in person. He wanted to sift Peter like wheat, but the Lord wouldn't let him. Christ is God, Jessi
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Post by 2jessy on Jun 13, 2006 23:51:35 GMT -5
New Testament
Mark 13:22 For false christs and false prophets will appear and produce signs and omens to deceive, if possible, the elect.
If... like selah said
In the old testament, people did not have the holy spirit living in them. now chritsians, elect, have the holy spirit in them to stay.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 13, 2006 23:52:25 GMT -5
A little humor I was hoping would break the monotony. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Will you forgive me?
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by toojessie on Jun 13, 2006 23:58:43 GMT -5
stop doing something wrong and then ask for forgiveness like a little child. think first. you are representing jesus here.
forgiving is granted- i have been forgiven of a lot so i do the same to you.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 14, 2006 0:11:13 GMT -5
If we are chosen in him from before the foundation of the world (Heb 4:3, Luke 11:50, Rev 17:8, Matt 25:34, Eph 1:4), then that means before those prophets. God's plan of salvation and all who were chosen . . . our names were written in the Book of Life before the world began.
And if they were holy men of God, prophets of God, I would say they had the Holy Spirit. They were elect, at any rate. I never heard that ever questioned. They were chosen, that's certain for me.
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Jun 14, 2006 0:23:20 GMT -5
Saul is debatable. Was he saved? I dunno. He DID repent on his face . . . but who knows?
I really don't know, N9. I never gave it a lot of thought -- only in terms of were they saved or elect or not. David was definitely one of the elect. Honestly, I don't know how God worked that out with the spirit. I know Saul was once in the spirit and prophesying (I Sam 10).
I do know that our salvation is a mystery into which ANGELS LONG TO LOOK (I Peter 1:12).
Christ's Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Jun 14, 2006 0:25:56 GMT -5
Anyone who wants to beat me up has to do it tomorrow night. I'm beat. It was great talking with all of you. Thank you for the workout.
Christ's Jessi
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Post by ozelaine on Jun 14, 2006 7:45:53 GMT -5
Christ’s substitutionary death was not on the behalf of the non-elect. It was not for those who were not among God’s chosen ones whom He had given to Christ to die for, but only, and exclusively, for those elected by God to be His sheep, His children and the sole benefactors of Christ’s work of salvation.
Only by this premise can we understand God's sovereign grace.
If Saul was among the elect then he was saved. If David was among the elect then he was saved too.
1 Cor 3:12 "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
What looks like a disaster to us is not to God.
It's God's sovereign decision not ours. Looking at it from a human perspective will confuse and contradict God's truth.
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Post by selah on Jun 14, 2006 9:49:56 GMT -5
Hi Jessi,
Just asking again....
Is Faith Bible Church a "KJV only" church? Is it a Bible Baptist church?
Bessings, Linda
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 14, 2006 11:38:36 GMT -5
Linda: My mother attends Faith Bible Church in Edmond, OK. It is not a KJV only church. here in Oklahoma, the preachers for a "Bible Church" come out of the Dallas Seminary. And no, it's not a Baptist church. I've visited numerous "Bible Churches" in OK.
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Post by selah on Jun 14, 2006 12:46:27 GMT -5
Okay, thanks Cherie. The Bible Baptist Church here in Canada is independent of the mainstream Baptists, and is exclusive in nature. That's why I asked. Thanks again.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by Jessi on Jun 14, 2006 17:02:50 GMT -5
Okay, thanks Cherie. The Bible Baptist Church here in Canada is independent of the mainstream Baptists, and is exclusive in nature. That's why I asked. Thanks again. Blessings, Linda I thought I answered you. Maybe I pm'd you. Anyway, sorry. No and No. I belong to an independent Bible Church. Christ's, Jessi
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Post by christine on Jun 15, 2006 15:07:42 GMT -5
I've been professing for years and someone recently told me that we are supposed to not beleive in the trinity. Where did this idea come from ?
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Post by Observer on Jun 15, 2006 15:19:55 GMT -5
I've been professing for years and someone recently told me that we are supposed to not beleive in the trinity. Where did this idea come from ? The devil... or one of his tools, such as the internet. (Or at least this is what many of the F&W now say, since the issue has come up recently.)
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Post by christine on Jun 15, 2006 15:23:54 GMT -5
seems strange that the devil would spread such a story. I've always subscribed to this doctrine, never thought about the fact that some might not accept it. Don't think our workers'd be too pleased if I told them some deny Jesus divinity.
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Post by to Jessi on Jun 15, 2006 15:25:59 GMT -5
Jessi, how do you know that the Faith Bible Church is a Christian church and that you will not be sitting under false teaching. You don't want any false preachers in your house but maybe you will go to one without being aware. I am not saying it is, I am saying that there are many churches that preach false doctrines and it is not usual for someone who comes out of false teaching to be lured to another in their zeal.
What things will alert you to know whether a church is preaching the true gospel or not? Do you wonder why they are independent? Look up on the internet to check it out.
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Post by Observer on Jun 15, 2006 15:29:29 GMT -5
I've always subscribed to this doctrine, never thought about the fact that some might not accept it. I was B&R, and was always taught contrary to the trinity.
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Post by the Trinity on Jun 15, 2006 15:32:26 GMT -5
seems strange that the devil would spread such a story. I've always subscribed to this doctrine, never thought about the fact that some might not accept it. Don't think our workers'd be too pleased if I told them some deny Jesus divinity. Christine, some workers have been put out of the work because they preached Jesus divinity. Throughout my professing years I don't think I ever came across anyone in meetings who believed in the Trinity. The workers would preach that Jesus was the son of God, and that he came to be our example and to give us the pattern ministry. But God... no!! The teaching of the trinity was a Catholic thing. Ask the workers do they believe in the Trinity and if they believe that Jesus is God....or just the Son, under, below, or equal with the Father or if he just came to be an example and show us a way? Christine, were you an outsider who professed or were you born and raised in the group?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 15, 2006 15:56:29 GMT -5
Jessi, how do you know that the Faith Bible Church is a Christian church and that you will not be sitting under false teaching. You don't want any false preachers in your house but maybe you will go to one without being aware. I am not saying it is, I am saying that there are many churches that preach false doctrines and it is not usual for someone who comes out of false teaching to be lured to another in their zeal. What things will alert you to know whether a church is preaching the true gospel or not? Do you wonder why they are independent? Look up on the internet to check it out. * I know it is a Christian church because they preach the Christ of God. * I know that they are not false teachers because I compare what they say with what the Bible (the only measure for truth) and it is exactly the same and they are not afraid to use proof texts to back up what they are saying. * I am very aware because I have studied the Bible and I know what it says. If someone comes preaching another Jesus, he is anathema. I know my shepherd's voice and I go to him and he leads me out. *Do you know that my church is false? What is false about it? How do you know that I have gone from one that is false to another that is false? And what do you mean "it is not usual?" I would venture that it IS. One leaving the 2x2s would have LITTLE discernment because we are not taught the scriptures well. VERY VAGUE. Jesus loves me, he died . . . stick with us. Surface. Nothing but a front. Underneath, very ugly. That's my experience. I get my information from the Holyy Word. I don't have to look up on the Internet to find out if something is false. Looking at the church as a whole is a mistake. The WHEAT AND THE TARES WILL GROW UP TOGETHER. You have all kinds of people in a church. It's not so much that I don't want false teachers in my house as the Bible tells me I shouldn't invite them in. So I don't. Doesn't mean I don't engage error. What it's saying, I think, in simple terms, is, "Don't invite the fox into the chicken coop." This is called DISCERNMENT. I get it from the Holy Word. Christ's Jessi
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Post by christine on Jun 15, 2006 16:03:16 GMT -5
Christine, some workers have been put out of the work because they preached Jesus divinity. Throughout my professing years I don't think I ever came across anyone in meetings who believed in the Trinity. The workers would preach that Jesus was the son of God, and that he came to be our example and to give us the pattern ministry. But God... no!! The teaching of the trinity was a Catholic thing. Ask the workers do they believe in the Trinity and if they believe that Jesus is God....or just the Son, under, below, or equal with the Father or if he just came to be an example and show us a way?
Christine, were you an outsider who professed or were you born and raised in the group? Well this all seems pretty strange to me. Put out of the work for preaching Jesus? Are you serious? Where was this? Ask the workers if they believe that Jesus is God? Of course they do. I never thought that anyone would say otherwise. In fact that sounds suspiciously like someone having a bad joke to me? May parents also professed.
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Post by the trinity on Jun 15, 2006 17:47:54 GMT -5
My post did not say that the worker was put out of the work because he preached Jesus, I said that he was put out because he preached Jesus divinity - i.e that Jesus was God. There was a worker that was put out of the work in Alaska because of this.
If I had said asked a professing person if they believed Jesus was God you would have said of course they do, so why not ask a worker? You will find many in meetings do not believe Jesus is God if that is what you mean by divinity. I am certainly not joking. I couldn't be more serious.
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