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Post by Jessi on Jun 12, 2006 20:31:07 GMT -5
Amazed: Nothing in any scripture I could give anyone without the Holy Spirit could make them aware that they are not following the true gospel. Only a regenerated heart can understand and respond to the Holy Word. I was bringing that out (2 John 1:7) not for active F&W, but for THE PERSON, "What". To keep myself from the evil one is to get as far away from false teaching as I can. I am not to even let a false teacher in my house. So I DEFINITELY WOULD NOT SIT UNDER THE SOUND OF FALSE TEACHING where I couldn't ask questions. That was the point of the scripture. Sorry I wasn't probably very clear on that. What to do . . .I think the biggest thing is something that has been so very hard for me to grasp. Now that I have all the doctrine down, I want to go beat them over the head with it. See? See how I am right? ? But it doesn't so much work for those who are not receptive or who are just not at that stage yet. BUT I THINK IT'S TO SHOW THEM WHAT LOVE IS. I trip over this, coming from a wasteland with no love -- desert for miles - and no love. Singing . . . but void of love. If I have the Christ of God, I HAVE LOVE. That's the difference, maybe, how I respond. Not easy. But "by this shall they know you, your love one for another" (Jn 13:35) Jn 13:34 - " A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. " WILL THE REAL DISCIPLES PLEASE STAND UP? John 13:34, 15:12, Rom 12:10, Rom 13:8 If we preach Christ, Christ is Love. God is Love. CHRIST IS GOD, Jessi
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Post by amazed on Jun 12, 2006 21:12:27 GMT -5
Hi Jessi,
So are you saying that we shouldn't really bring it up but to just be there, show them love and wait until they have a receptive heart? How did you find out? For me it wasn't until many years after leaving that someone asked me..."Do you know what the Gospel is?" I really couldn't answer. It started me searching, reading, studying, looking on the internet. What a blessing that was!
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Post by sjg on Jun 12, 2006 21:29:05 GMT -5
(Assuming you are still one of the friends and have regular access to them...) if you wanted to help an entrenched 2x2 begin his/her journey towards learning the truth about Truth, how would you go about it? I've pondered the question that started this "thread" and I'm having a hard time understanding the logic. IF "you" has discovered the truth about Truth then WHY would they STILL be one of the "friends" ....WHY would "you" STILL be professing....WHY would "you" STILL be attending meetings. I think the best way to help an entrenched 2 x 2 would be to get out yourself and maybe you would create an exodus. Maybe there are some doubters and seekers waiting for a leader. Once you leave then maybe they would ask you why you left. It has always been mind boggling to me that someone could learn of the history, discover that the doctrine doesn't line up with scripture and yet they choose to remain INSIDE. WHAT keeps them there?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 12, 2006 21:32:08 GMT -5
Hi Jessi, I've wondered about this passage. I once studied with JWs, Mormons and I was also part of the f&w fellowship. As a JW/f&w, I refused to visit any other churches. I refused "Christian" fellowship with anyone outside of my group, although eventually I did go to a bible study outside of the f&w. Because of this refusal to fellowship, I wonder now, how will those who do not understand the gospel of grace within the JW/f&w/Mormon, ever hear? When the JWs/Mormons come to my door, I DO greet them. I welcome them into my home. Sometimes we arrange studies together. I know they are not going to go out to a mainstream evangelistic crusade. They are not reading mainstream Christian literature. Most new-life disciples are not likely going to go to the Mormon church or the Kingdom Hall or the meetings to share the good news. So how will they hear? When I see Mormons/JWs coming up my walk, I'm so glad to have an opportunity to share Jesus with them. When I went door to door with JWs, I never had anyone even attempt to share Christ with me to help release me from the bondage of deception. How do I reconcile this passage with these comments? Do you have some advice or counsel for me? Blessings, Linda Bryan from Alaska: There are many ways to witness, brother. Not just one way, because people are different and they respond to different stimuli. I think we must be very careful not to do what we were taught to do . . . PUT EVERYTHING IN A GROUP AND LABEL IT. It's easy, but it's not safe -- spread the seed and pray. To pray . . . for regeneration, because we cannot control that. Only the Holy Spirit regenerates. SISTER LINDA: I know you have a deep love in your heart for PEOPLE. Your belief in and Love for the Lord is evident in the fact that you want so badly to share with EVERYONE YOU MEET. And I certainly admire you for that. Jesus technically was talking to the 12 when he said this, but since we believed through their word and they said so much about false teachers, I believe it should apply to us also: Matt 10:16 - "Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.” When JWs come to my door, I go outside and take my Bible and my Jesus is God spread sheets (Jesus is . . . a King, ---- God is . . . a King, etc) pull up lawn chairs and have a party. But I will not invite them into my house, according to the Word. I have struggled with this myself. An elder in my church took me aside and gave me a few verses (because I wanted to go to gospel meetings here and try to witness or ask questions of the F&W). Of the verses he gave me, that's the only one I can remember. But I remember being really upset that he just didn't understand about the F&W not going to other churches. How could they learn, then? But he also gently reminded me, as all in my church do, that God is sovereign and HE provides the opportunities. We just look for them and know them when they appear. I have since thought about the things he said and changed my mind. He was right. If I am not in a setting where I can ask questions and must listen to false doctrine and not engage error, I should not put myself in that situation. And I am not to invite false teachers into my house. They are wolves in sheep's clothing (Matt 7:15) despite that they are nice, or look like clean, decent people, they are in fact to be damned if they do not preach Jesus Christ (Gal 1:8). Interesting, that when we want to punctuate something, we WRITE IN UPPER CASE or use exclamation MARKS~!!!!!!!!! . But when the Jew of Israel wanted to exclaim or annunciate or place great importance on something, he REPEATED it. Paul says in Gal 1:8 TWICE that if they preach any other gospel, even if it is an ANGEL, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA. Accursed. Damned. I can’t let something that is accursed over my threshold--I may love that person and want to help him, but as I am trying to snatch him from the fire . . . what if I fall in? What if he gets comfortable in my house and lulls me? That's what satan does. He dresses as an angel of light (II Cor 11:13). I will study this out some more as time permits. It lies heavy on my heart as well. There are other verses that are . . . more comforting, but I can’t think of them right now. I'm sorry. Please forgive. I promise to study. In the Love of Christ, Jessi
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Post by Anna on Jun 12, 2006 22:13:15 GMT -5
I spent 62 years in blindness until a kind soul pointed me toward the path of truly knowing my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
My years in bondage have motivated me to write this:
For those of you that pro-actively seek to show the blinded in Truth the honest truth: You are the TRUE disciples of Jesus, thank you and God bless you.
For those of you that stand by and watch as others suffer, waiting for the blinded in Truth to decipher your cryptic messages, excusing yourselves with "it's someone else's job" or "God will do it": I thank God that I will never be your judge.
I thank God for the true believers we read of in our bible; those who felt moved by the spirit and their convictions to do work in the name of the Lord; Moses, Noah, Joseph, Mary, David, Paul, John, and so on.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2006 22:17:47 GMT -5
I spent 62 years in blindness until a kind soul pointed me toward the path of truly knowing my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. My years in bondage have motivated me to write this: For those of you that pro-actively seek to show the blinded in Truth the honest truth: You are the TRUE disciples of Jesus, thank you and God bless you. For those of you that stand by and watch as others suffer, waiting for the blinded in Truth to decipher your cryptic messages, excusing yourselves with "it's someone else's job" or "God will do it": I thank God that I will never be your judge. I thank God for the true believers we read of in our bible; those who felt moved by the spirit and their convictions to do work in the name of the Lord; Moses, Noah, Joseph, Mary, David, Paul, John, and so on. Amen! Karl
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2006 22:19:55 GMT -5
" I can’t let something that is accursed over my threshold--I may love that person and want to help him, but as I am trying to snatch him from the fire . . . what if I fall in? What if he gets comfortable in my house and lulls me? That's what satan does. He dresses as an angel of light (II Cor 11:13)."
Impossible. The elect cannot be deceived. It is not possible. The gates of hell stand very well if they are never attacked. Greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.
Karl
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Post by OzE on Jun 12, 2006 23:03:40 GMT -5
Impossible. The elect cannot be deceived. It is not possible. The gates of hell stand very well if they are never attacked. Greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.
Amen Karl! Isn't that a wonderful promise?!
I have learnt over the years that no matter how much we tell others the truth God has to be working in that persons heart prior to our speaking. If He isn't then no amount of talking, telling, explaining will change anything. We are not in the job of saving souls we are in the job of being vessels of honour to God and IF he is working in anothers heart he may choose us to do that work with Him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2006 23:11:15 GMT -5
" I can’t let something that is accursed over my threshold--I may love that person and want to help him, but as I am trying to snatch him from the fire . . . what if I fall in? What if he gets comfortable in my house and lulls me? That's what satan does. He dresses as an angel of light (II Cor 11:13)." Impossible. The elect cannot be deceived. It is not possible. The gates of hell stand very well if they are never attacked. Greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world. Karl Karl, you said the elect cannot be deceived. Do you believe some of the elected in the book of Hebrews were deceived by going back to their Old Testament faith. What is your understanding on (Hebrews 6:4-6) For it is impossible for those who were ONCE! enlightened, and have TASTED of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have TASTED the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall to RENEWED them again unto repetance! seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. What I stated is what I believe. Karl
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2006 23:21:51 GMT -5
What I stated is what I believe. Karl Thanks, for stating what you believe. But how do you explain the verses in Hebrews 6:4-6? How do you get around it or by it? We have discussed this passage before. I have given my understanding.There is nothing to get around. Here's an answer that I agree with, and explains in detail the meaning of the passage. www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-O-15.htm
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2006 23:29:20 GMT -5
We have discussed this passage before. I have given my understanding.There is nothing to get around. Here's an answer that I agree with, and explains in detail the meaning of the passage. www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-O-15.htmHow do you get around (Hebrews 3:12-19)? What is there to "get around"? He is talking about unbelievers among Israel- of course unbelievers have NO security. For believers it is altogether a different story. God has promised and He does not lie. My security is based in His character and Himself. Karl
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Post by lisa on Jun 13, 2006 1:57:40 GMT -5
to bryan from alaska
Thank you for your kind reply. I'm an old woman and I don't read or think so quickly as I used to. Getting used to the computer takes some acclimatising too, but the keyboard is certainly easier than my old manual typewriter. I professed in 1939, as war was breaking out. I understand what you say about some having been told some things about the origins or our fellowship that are not right. I have come across some who also heard those things, but can attest to them not being true. Indeed those early workers of the late 1800s and early 1900s started it. However I don't see that as important. Any of the Christian Churches can point to a time that their fellowship was started in its current form. I don't see that as important at all. There have been many variations, divisions, denominations in Christianity since Jesus' day. I think of that as like food. Someone develops a new food, and thats new, had an inventor, but that doesn't make it not food. Comes in many forms.
You mentioned the meeting in the home. I happen to like this, and find it best for me. But you imply that perhaps its the ONLY way? or that even our salvation could be dependent on following it? (I know you didn't say that, but I wonder if you meant that?). I don't think I've ever heard that preached or taught. Implied by some at best, but not directly stated.
Your statements about what you were taught about God got me wondering. I'm not sure what you meant. However reading the postings of others here, and making some assumptions perhaps I understand. Are you saying that you were taught that Jesus did not come from Heaven, was merely a man, was not of the Godhead, was not God the Son, was not the Word? I think this is a topic easily misunderstood. I understand that some make no distinction between God the Son and God the Father. I think thats wrong; there is a distinction, a difference. But to deny Jesus his divinity is something I personally haven't come across.
Thanks for clarifying for me in a concise way that doesn't come across easily in this forum, which I find a maelstrom of conflict, of sectarianism, of staunch denominationalism, and of those all too quick to condemn others who in their own feeble way are also trying to get reconciled with their God. We can be thankful for all who seek after Him. As I'm sure God does, we too can overlook the lack of knowledge and understanding that I an others display as we seek for unity in the grace that our savior has bestowed.
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Post by bryanfromalaska on Jun 13, 2006 2:27:59 GMT -5
It is important to many people for many different reasons. It’s important to some people because they were lied to and told the exact opposite. It’s important to me because knowing the true history helps debunk many of the exclusive teachings found in the fellowship. But don’t forget… many professing people were told that this point in time for the meetings was Jesus founding the friends and workers fellowship… which many found out later was a outright lie. But you see, many of us were never told this… It was ingrained in us that the friends and workers fellowship was started by Jesus and was carried down throughout the ages… I agree and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with anyone gathering in the homes for fellowship… Lisa, I am sincerely surprised you have never heard this… many of us were told this since birth and heard it over and over and over again in meetings. This subject was the first topic discussed at the last young persons meeting I ever attended… Here are a few quotes from workers related to the subject… JACK CARROLL: The only temple in the universe today is the body of man. God did not want His people building church buildings. [11/21/54] REF #352 JACK CARROLL: The church in the home and the preacher without a home are vital...What a terrible calamity it would be if we, as the servants of God, had to be continually occupied with building synagogues. But our eyes have been opened to see that the building of synagogues and the hiring of preachers belongs to Babylon. [5-page Notes, undated] REF #390 WILLIAM PETERSON: The church in the home is a part of Jesus, just as the ministry is a part of Jesus, and you cannot have the blood of Jesus without accepting all of Jesus...The truth is the two-and-two ministry and the church meeting in the home. [Letter to Cherie Kropp dated 12/15/90] REF #304Correct… many of us were NEVER taught that Jesus was God the Son… The idea that Jesus was part of the Godhead was a teaching deemed to be false… I have noted that there are a few professing people who view Jesus as GOD, but these people are few and far between… Well you have to be careful here… it’s one thing to say Jesus was divine and another to say he is GOD. I would ask the workers and friends in your area if they believe Jesus is/was GOD himself. I understand and I agree… Please let me know if you have any other questions…
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Post by Jessi on Jun 13, 2006 5:25:57 GMT -5
Karl: What scripture would you would point me to on this subject. I looked back and didn't see any . . . sorry if I missed it . . . haven't had my coffee yet . . .
I too believe that God will preserve His elect, but the elect can fall and fall hard. Peter did when he denied the Lord three times. We CAN fall away. I was not, when I mentioned falling into the fire, referring to LOSING MY SALVATION or being ULTIMATELY decieved -- I apologize for not being more clear (you can't say EVERYTHING you believe in one post, although it seems I always try!)
I believe the elect are FOREWARNED. And that if I throw caution to the wind bring people in my house who are not of God, disobeying God's Holy Word, I MAY fall. Do you believe it's OK to let false teachers into your house?
If I take certain verses and not others, I may fall. I can't ignore some verses I don't like or that are offensive to others. Those two verses mentioned, taken together, give me confidence in my election, but I believe I must heed the warnings in the Word -- since they WERE given to the elect.
Jesus was speaking to His disciples, THE ELECT, when He told them in Mark 13:20 20 +
And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
21And then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it.
22False christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.
HE SAID TO BE ON GUARD FOR HE HAS TOLD THEM ALL THINGS BEFOREHAND. We know the truth because we understand the scriptures. The scriptures tell us to be careful. If we had nothing to worry about, there wouldn't be so many warnings.
ANNA:
YOU WROTE: For those of you that stand by and watch as others suffer, waiting for the blinded in Truth to decipher your cryptic messages, excusing yourselves with "it's someone else's job" or "God will do it": I thank God that I will never be your judge.
I love the way you put it. Thank you for your words of wisdom, sister.
Christ is Lord, Jessi
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Post by lacpastorunplugged on Jun 13, 2006 7:39:08 GMT -5
Jessi-
I'm not going to argue with you, or get into a proof texting debate. If you do not feel safe, or not enabled to do this, then by all means don't. But all over the new testament there are commands to be among the world, boldly declaring what we know to be true.
I do believe that mature, born again, transformed new creations have nothing to fear from the false teachers, disciples of the false religious systems. Can we be fooled? Maybe at first, but the Spirit and the Word will discern for us what is true and what is false.
Who is going to tell them though, if Christ's body does not? We are a city on a hill, we are the light of the world, we are the salt of the earth, we are His priests cooperating in His redemptive work- and we have been commanded to testify of Him without fear.
Paul went into the synagogues and to the pagan philsophers- weren't those "false" ?
I really don't wan't to argue this, but if we are to have a spirit of boldness, not of fear, and we are to be in the world and not of it- I don't know how not talking to certain groups because we are afraid they will corrupt our walk/relationship with God when there are no other factors (physical safety, propriety, addictions we may give in to, etc. ), gives testimony to what we claim is the transforming dynamic power of our faith and our God.
If you really want more scripture, aside from all of the one that I have mentioned/aluded to- read Jude.
Peace
Karl
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2006 7:44:31 GMT -5
What is there to "get around"? He is talking about unbelievers among Israel- of course unbelievers have NO security. For believers it is altogether a different story. God has promised and He does not lie. My security is based in His character and Himself. Karl When is a person saved according to you? Are they saved at the moment they confess Jesus Christ as their Savior in their hearts? To be specific- I believe that a person is saved, and stays so, through faith, by grace- the moment that they are regenerated by God. Karl
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Post by sjg on Jun 13, 2006 11:25:44 GMT -5
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come...
Notice it never stated that they had been "born again." Neither is there mention of such essentials as saving faith, redemption by His blood, eternal life. They had "once" been "enlightened". They had heard the gospel of the grace of God. They were not in darkness concerning the way of salvation. Judas had been enlightened but he rejected the light.
They "tasted the heavenly gift." The Lord Jesus is the heavenly gift. They had tasted of Him but had never received Him by a definite act of faith. It is possible to taste without eating or drinking. It is not enough to taste Christ. Unless we truly receive Him as the Lord and Savior , we have no life in us. (John 6:53) [taken from "The Believer's Commentary"]
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Post by selah on Jun 13, 2006 11:50:36 GMT -5
Hi Jessi,
Thank you for taking time to respond to my questions. I appreciate your dedication to the bible and hear your reasoning. However, the relevance of each passage is its intent, and so I must agree with Karl's comments.
Karl,
Thank you for posting exactly what I believe at this point in time.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2006 11:53:03 GMT -5
Hi Jessi, Thank you for taking time to respond to my questions. I appreciate your dedication to the bible and hear your reasoning. However, the relevance of each passage is its intent, and so I must agree with Karl's comments. Karl, Thank you for posting exactly what I believe at this point in time. Blessings, Linda Thanks- I have to tell you that there are many threads I do not comment on simply because you have already stated, in a clear effective manner, what I believed on the topic as well. God bless you Linda- Karl
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Post by selah on Jun 13, 2006 12:01:07 GMT -5
Hebrews 6:4-6
Key phrase "if they fall away".....IF....IF...if it were possible for them to fall away, they could not be restored.
But,
Matt. 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect ---if that were possible.
IF....IF...that were possible, Jesus says. He is saying that the delusion could be so strong that if it were possible (which insinuates that it isn't) even the elect could be deceived.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
Eternal life is ETERNAL. It lasts forever. Jesus says that since I've received eternal life, I will NEVER perish and that NO ONE can change that. Not even me...I am one of the "No ONE's". I can fall into disobedience and various other sins, but I am still His child. My own child may fall into disobedience, but he is still my child. I will always be a child of God, and I'm trusting my Father to keep that which I've committed to Him, in Jesus Name.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by Evan on Jun 13, 2006 14:19:42 GMT -5
(Assuming you are still one of the friends and have regular access to them...) if you wanted to help an entrenched 2x2 begin his/her journey towards learning the truth about Truth, how would you go about it? I do this in a number of ways: I go to the meetings and take part to show the true Jesus to the others there. (There is a fine line to walk here to avoid being asked not to come back.) I take every opportunity I can to mention William Irvine in a non-confrontational way. (I believe that the WI topic is a catalyst for enlightenment.) Creativity and preparation are important here. For example, recently a young man in one of our meetings "lost out" and one day after meeting, someone asked if anyone knew where he had gone. I was ready with my answer; "Lately... a lot's been said about the Truth's founder, ya' know, William Irvine, and it may be that he's never heard of Mr. Irvine before and is taking the news a little hard. It's been known to happen. We can keep him in our prayers and know that God's will will prevail." I keep in touch with others that know the real truth and encourage and challenge them to spread the word. I write letters and send them via USPS or e-mail. I mail letters, written by others, by USPS proxy to their relatives. (This avoids accurate postmark identification.) This is all I will share for now. I hope this helps.
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Post by the Truth on Jun 13, 2006 15:34:15 GMT -5
I'm a bit puzzled as to what is the mystery of the truth that I don't know. I'm new here, but I go to meetings, and wonder what I've missed out on. What should I be helped to see that I don't? Hi Lisa IN meetings we called our group the Truth. But this title is reserved for Jesus not a group of people. You see, Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life....." When we call ourselves or our group the Truth we are focusing on a group for salvation rather than Jesus. "NO man can come to the father but through me (Jesus said)..." Jesus is the only way to the Father, not a group. It is mis leading to call our group the Truth when only Jesus is the truth. Calling ourselves the Truth we are talking the focus off Jesus as the Truth and onto ourselves. Hopes this helps. Again, the Truth is Jesus not a group. ow dear we take the focus off him and onto our selves.
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Post by las logged out on Jun 13, 2006 15:41:12 GMT -5
I'm a bit puzzled as to what is the mystery of the truth that I don't know. I'm new here, but I go to meetings, and wonder what I've missed out on. What should I be helped to see that I don't? Hi Lisa IN meetings we called our group the Truth. But this title is reserved for Jesus not a group of people. You see, Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life....." When we call ourselves or our group the Truth we are focusing on a group for salvation rather than Jesus. "NO man can come to the father but through me (Jesus said)..." Jesus is the only way to the Father, not a group. It is mis leading to call our group the Truth when only Jesus is the truth. Calling ourselves the Truth we are talking the focus off Jesus as the Truth and onto ourselves. Hopes this helps. Again, the Truth is Jesus not a group. ow dear we take the focus off him and onto our selves. Did William irvine have anything to do with this group wasn't he founder?
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Post by questions on Jun 13, 2006 16:11:59 GMT -5
the question is then, who are the very elect? do you believe the Catholics are the very elect? how about the Baptists, JWS,Mormons,church of England,Lutherns? and thousands more? who are the deceived? is it any of the above or none of the above? who are the deceivers? is it any of the above?
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Post by group on Jun 13, 2006 16:13:24 GMT -5
the question is then, who are the very elect? do you believe the Catholics are the very elect? how about the Baptists, JWS,Mormons,church of England,Lutherns? and thousands more? who are the deceived? is it any of the above or none of the above? who are the deceivers? is it any of the above? You are asking on a group/church level. Salvation is not on a group/church level. And so you can not list out the elect on such a level.
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Post by yes on Jun 13, 2006 16:34:13 GMT -5
the question is then, who are the very elect? do you believe the Catholics are the very elect? how about the Baptists, JWS,Mormons,church of England,Lutherns? and thousands more? who are the deceived? is it any of the above or none of the above? who are the deceivers? is it any of the above? You are asking on a group/church level. Salvation is not on a group/church level. And so you can not list out the elect on such a level. yes i can, and i will do you think that Jesus and His disciples were not as a group? or do you think they were individuals running around by them selves?
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Post by selah on Jun 13, 2006 17:50:58 GMT -5
The elect are all those who have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit...all new-life disciples, born-again of the Spirit of the living God. These could be from any number of Christ-believing (non)denominations. It is not the (non)denomination that determines whether or not one is of the elect. It is whether or not they have the indwelling Son of God.
The deceived are all those who have not correctly understood the true gospel of Jesus Christ which means being regenerated by the Holy Spirit....Christ IN us, our hope of glory. The deceived can be found in any Christ-believing (non)denomination or other religions too.
The true deceiver is, of course, Satan, but people may unknowingly be entangled in His ploy. These can be found in any Christ-believing (non)denomination or other religions too. Those who are true born-again believers will not remain in a permanently deceived situation, since the indwelling Holy Spirit has been provided to teach and to guide them into all truth. These will, on revelation of truth, acknowledge their error and seek forgiveness wherever necessary, but true deceivers are intent upon their mission, and refuse to take responsibility. This could be due to their strong delusion resulting from the hardness of their hearts.
Nothing is impossible with God. He can soften the hardest hearts, when they yield to Him. Paul was a deceived deceiver, but he was changed into one of the elightened elect.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by a believer on Jun 13, 2006 18:35:41 GMT -5
The elect are born again Christians.They can be found in many groups (but they are not a particular group), and they can be individuals worshiping God alone. The elect are those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and have the Holy Spirit. The elect are individuals, not groups. A group cannot be save.
There are groups that clearly preach a false Gospel. If a group is preaching themselves as the way, then they are preaching a false Gospel and a person may well be following their group and not Jesus. They may have accepted their group as the truth and rely on belonging to a group for salvation and not really know Jesus. Their safely and security is in the group. The Bride of Christi is made up of born again believers regardless of denomination although as I said there are groups that clearly preach themselves and a false Gospel. God will call those who are sincere out of these groups and into fellowship with true believers. But again there are many in any group that do not know Jesus, and there are some groups that clearly preach a false Gospel.
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