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Post by YTIFB on Jun 11, 2006 20:57:22 GMT -5
(Assuming you are still one of the friends and have regular access to them...) if you wanted to help an entrenched 2x2 begin his/her journey towards learning the truth about Truth, how would you go about it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2006 22:57:23 GMT -5
(Assuming you are still one of the friends and have regular access to them...) if you wanted to help an entrenched 2x2 begin his/her journey towards learning the truth about Truth, how would you go about it? why would one need to?
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Post by obviously on Jun 11, 2006 23:18:10 GMT -5
To bring Christ Jesus into focus; to show others his glory and saving grace.
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Post by so on Jun 12, 2006 3:55:05 GMT -5
To bring Christ Jesus into focus; to show others his glory and saving grace. so we don't know that?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 12, 2006 5:01:05 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on Jun 12, 2006 5:22:57 GMT -5
"....puts oneself under the teaching of a false gospel ....."
And just what do you claim is a false gospel thats taught?
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Post by las unplugged on Jun 12, 2006 6:31:02 GMT -5
(Assuming you are still one of the friends and have regular access to them...) if you wanted to help an entrenched 2x2 begin his/her journey towards learning the truth about Truth, how would you go about it? INTERNET or the books
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Post by YTIFB on Jun 12, 2006 6:39:08 GMT -5
I guess that depends on who "we" is.
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Post by YTIFB on Jun 12, 2006 6:47:04 GMT -5
Thank you las, but I guess I should have been more specific. Suppose this entrenched 2x2 is in the typical brainwashed mindset: "the books are of Satan, the internet is of Satan", anything contrary to this system is of Satan. How can I get past this wall of blindness?
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Post by las unplugged on Jun 12, 2006 6:50:36 GMT -5
Thank you las, but I guess I should have been more specific. Suppose this entrenched 2x2 is in the typical brainwashed mindset: "the books are of Satan, the internet is of Satan", anything contrary to this system is of Satan. How can I get past this wall of blindness? Just like my elder he hasn't got the Internet but i know his son does and i believe ain't telling anything what they find cause they just haven't got the heart to tell there dad that what they belong to might not be Gods only way
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Post by YTIFB on Jun 12, 2006 7:11:59 GMT -5
Just like my elder he hasn't got the Internet but i know his son does and i believe ain't telling anything what they find cause they just haven't got the heart to tell there dad that what they belong to might not be Gods only way Exactly! Many people aren't internet active. Some of them have seen the "devil's letters" but the letters are so long that before anything of value can sink in, they've realized what they're reading, stop, and burn it.
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Post by lloydswanson on Jun 12, 2006 7:26:43 GMT -5
we should all do what we can to expose the 2x2s in their corrupsion has quick has we can
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Post by las unplugged on Jun 12, 2006 7:30:58 GMT -5
we should all do what we can to expose the 2x2s in their corrupsion has quick has we can again never posted
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Post by amazed on Jun 12, 2006 8:05:40 GMT -5
What is it in these verses that would make a f&w aware that they are not following the true Gospel? It seems that I've heard these verses (granted, in various broken up statements) spoken about and used by the f&w. I'm asking because I too, am wondering how to bring it out to others I am close to.
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Post by hi6 on Jun 12, 2006 8:10:30 GMT -5
Have them ask their workers if there were any professing saints in USA before 1903. Ask them if George Walker was the first worker to arrive in USA! Ask them about the salvation of those who died before the workers arrived here.
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Post by bliss on Jun 12, 2006 9:24:22 GMT -5
Ever think that they may not want to know?
Lets face it; only the very first one in each our families to "profess" was seeking. (And believed that they found what they were looking for.) The successive ones of us have inherited their choice, are either followers or rebels.
This information is available to all who want it; some don't want it. Some of our brothers and sisters are enjoying a certain degree of contentment in their lives, and may suspect deep down inside that knowing the factual background (as opposed to the mythical) will upset their equilibrium.
Leave them be. Unless they ask.......
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Post by Ed on Jun 12, 2006 9:58:27 GMT -5
but some have never considered anything else only because its never been effectively presented to them. There are many, many young professing people in this category.
Waiting for people to ask is what 2x2's are trained to do with "outsiders". To my knowledge, this method is not found in the Bible.
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Post by YTIFB on Jun 12, 2006 10:10:11 GMT -5
Have them ask their workers if there were any professing saints in USA before 1903. Ask them if George Walker was the first worker to arrive in USA! Ask them about the salvation of those who died before the workers arrived here. This does little if any good. First, few question the workers because they don't want to be seen as a weaker saint. Second, if they do question, they take the answer as GOSPEL. "Before the Truth came to USA, what hope of salvation did people here have?" I have asked this before. Here are some of the answers I've gotten: 1) We don't have to worry about that, God took care of it. 2) There were no honest hearts here before then. 3) We don't talk about that. "From whom did George Walker hear the Truth?" I have asked this before. Here are some of the answers I've gotten: 1) We don't know. 2) Another worker. 3) We don't talk about that. Asking the workers doesn't do any good. Most of them will still lie to you. A few won't lie directly, but they won't be honest either. I've heard eight workers that I can think of address our roots in the last five years; NOT ONE has said "William Irvine" and you can't tell me that they haven't heard the name.
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Post by YTIFB on Jun 12, 2006 10:31:11 GMT -5
Ever think that they may not want to know? Yes, I have. I didn't want to know, but I'm glad a good friend took the time to show me the "trail of breadcrumbs", through the brainwashing, and to the real truth. So what? If someone is clinging to an inherited form, why not show them the true treasure? You need to learn about brainwashing. B&R's often can't see the truth. (Note I didn't say that they "don't want to".) There is a big difference between "having no sight" and "not using the sight you have". I refuse to believe that anyone would be so cavalier with regard to their own soul.
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Post by selah on Jun 12, 2006 11:05:34 GMT -5
Hi Jessi, I've wondered about this passage. I once studied with JWs, Mormons and I was also part of the f&w fellowship. As a JW/f&w, I refused to visit any other churches. I refused "Christian" fellowship with anyone outside of my group, although eventually I did go to a bible study outside of the f&w. Because of this refusal to fellowship, I wonder now, how will those who do not understand the gospel of grace within the JW/f&w/Mormon, ever hear? When the JWs/Mormons come to my door, I DO greet them. I welcome them into my home. Sometimes we arrange studies together. I know they are not going to go out to a mainstream evangelistic crusade. They are not reading mainstream Christian literature. Most new-life disciples are not likely going to go to the Mormon church or the Kingdom Hall or the meetings to share the good news. So how will they hear? When I see Mormons/JWs coming up my walk, I'm so glad to have an opportunity to share Jesus with them. When I went door to door with JWs, I never had anyone even attempt to share Christ with me to help release me from the bondage of deception. How do I reconcile this passage with these comments? Do you have some advice or counsel for me? Blessings, Linda
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Post by Talk about it on Jun 12, 2006 11:17:26 GMT -5
This year at convention in Sunday morning meeting stand to speak and say...
"William Irvine started the truth a little over a hundred years ago. Don't take my word for it and don't take the workers word for it either; research the TRUTH for yourself."
Speak quick to get it all in before they shut you off.
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 13:25:44 GMT -5
This year at convention in Sunday morning meeting stand to speak and say... "William Irvine started the truth a little over a hundred years ago. Don't take my word for it and don't take the workers word for it either; research the TRUTH for yourself." Speak quick to get it all in before they shut you off. How about instead you stand up and say how thankful you are for knowing Jesus is God and list a few verses that say so... That would do much more good then talking about WI, which most people under the 2x2 mindset will ignore...
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Post by Jesus is The Truth on Jun 12, 2006 13:45:11 GMT -5
This year at convention in Sunday morning meeting stand to speak and say... "William Irvine started the truth a little over a hundred years ago. Don't take my word for it and don't take the workers word for it either; research the TRUTH for yourself." Speak quick to get it all in before they shut you off. William Irvine did not start the truth,dummy. Jesus IS THE TRUTH!. You obviously did not get it right the first time.
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Post by Talk about it on Jun 12, 2006 13:52:20 GMT -5
How about instead you stand up and say how thankful you are for knowing Jesus is God and list a few verses that say so... That would do much more good then talking about WI, which most people under the 2x2 mindset will ignore... When you say "much more good", what do you really mean? To me, "much more good" means more people see Jesus as God intends for them to. Think about it... You stand up, talk about knowing Jesus, and list the best verses you can find. I stand up, give my William Irvine speech, and never come back to convention. Now truely, which of us will invoke thought in others? Which will create controversy? (Remember, controversy leads to dialog.) A week after convention is over, your talk has blended in with the background noise. Mine? Well... 99% say I'm crazy for doing it. 98% say I shouldn't have. 97% wish I hadn't. But only the 20% that were asleep at the time will be able to say that they've never heard of William Irvine. That means 80% now know about William Irvine and some portion of these will not be able to black it out. And in the end, if just 5 people google "William Irvine" a week after convention and begin their journey towards the real truth, progress has been made. Do you think your testimony will drive 5 people to do this? Yes its radical, and honestly I don't know that I'd have the guts, but it is not an idea without merit.
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Post by Talk about it on Jun 12, 2006 13:59:48 GMT -5
William Irvine did not start the truth,dummy. Jesus IS THE TRUTH!. You obviously did not get it right the first time. Oops, sorry, I forgot to capitalize the T in truth. Let me resay: This year at convention in Sunday morning meeting stand to speak and say...
"William Irvine started this 'Truth religion' in 1897. Don't take my word for it and don't take the workers word for it either; research the TRUTH for yourself."
Speak quick to get it all in before they shut you off.
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Post by Sam the Skeptic on Jun 12, 2006 14:16:23 GMT -5
William Irvine did not start the truth,dummy...You obviously did not get it right the first time. Dear "Jesus is The Truth" You and I seem to have much in common when it comes to the analysis and acceptance of commonly accepted facts. Perhaps you would enjoy my favorite site... www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htmSincerely, Sam the Skeptic
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lisa
New Member
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Post by lisa on Jun 12, 2006 16:12:43 GMT -5
I'm a bit puzzled as to what is the mystery of the truth that I don't know. I'm new here, but I go to meetings, and wonder what I've missed out on. What shuold I be helped to see that I don't?
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 16:21:19 GMT -5
I'm a bit puzzled as to what is the mystery of the truth that I don't know. I'm new here, but I go to meetings, and wonder what I've missed out on. What shuold I be helped to see that I don't? No problem lisa… Many of us were told that the friends and workers fellowship went back to the time of Jesus and was God’s only true way… the true church that Jesus himself set up. After being told this for years, it was a huge shock for many of us to find out that the fellowship is only 110 years old and was started by William Irvine back in 1897. Also there is an issue regarding many of the teachings in the fellowship. Most of us believed when we were professing that a true church was dependent on meeting in the homes and having homeless preachers go out in pairs. We were taught that these two forms were commanded by the bible and were characteristics of God’s true way. Many of us were also brought up to believe that Jesus was not God himself, but instead was God’s son who was able to work so hard at being perfect that he died for our sins, and that we to must work for our salvation and that no one will know if they are saved or not until we die and find out if we put enough effort into serving God. Many of us were also told that worshiping in church buildings was ungodly and that preachers getting paid for their services was of the devil. And so on and so on… Please feel free to ask any question that may come to mind.
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