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Post by prue on May 26, 2006 4:58:26 GMT -5
Hi from Prue. We read a lot on this board about the lives and beliefs of so-called 2x2's. I am curious to know something about exe's and the world they live in.
Two religious related issues dominate our news at the moment. The first is the Da Vinci Code, and the second is Madonna and her crucifix show.
Have any of you exe's seen these shows? Did they offend you?
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Post by lainee on May 26, 2006 6:16:22 GMT -5
yes I have seen both shows and they are great, I loved them whooooo
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Post by prue on May 26, 2006 6:18:39 GMT -5
So, lainee, you share their mockery?
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seabisquit unlogged
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Post by seabisquit unlogged on May 26, 2006 6:31:14 GMT -5
I haven't seen either and I don't care too.
I do not care for their mockery!!
I think that the author of the davinci code might be blasphemous!
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Post by prue on May 26, 2006 6:33:23 GMT -5
What bothered me here was that the film company refused to put a disclaimer on the front of the film for its African distribution.
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Post by ghost on May 26, 2006 7:45:50 GMT -5
I recently read two great books. The first is entitled The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read by Tim Leedom. (available at Amazon.com).
According to Midwest Book Review: Consider this book as a kind of consumer protection guide to religion, a big step forward toward religious literacy. Readers will explore myths, origins, fundamentalism, television ministries, the identical stories of Stellar/Pagan/Christian beliefs, unfounded doctrines, child abuse, the Year 200, and women's rights. It's entertaining and readable, with a sense of humor reflecting the absurdities of fundamental religion -- while being inoffensive. The approach is one of not hitting the reader over the head with "you're wrong", but rather "consider this". The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read contains many interesting, unknown facts such as there being no mention of Jesus Christ is the Dead Sea Scrolls; the oldest story in the world (predating Christianity by millennia) being that of a virgin mother bearing a newborn baby; God finding out about the Trinity from the Catholic Church in 325 A. D. ; and Christmas being a pagan holiday with December 25th shared as a birthdate by many other crucified saviors. Contributors include Steve Allen, Dan Barker, Edd Doerr, Robert Eisenman, Annie Laurie Gaylor, Grace Halsell, Gerald Larue, Jordan Maxwell, and Arthur Melville.
The secont is A Short History of Myth by karen Armstrong.
According to Publishers Weekly: This is an pedestrian study from the noted and popular religion scholar, in which Armstrong takes a historical approach to myth, tracing its evolution through a series of periods, from the Paleolithic to the postmyth Great Western Transformation. Each period developed myths reflecting its major concerns: images of hunting and the huntress dominated the myths of the Paleolithic, while the myths of Persephone and Demeter, Isis and Osiris developed in the agricultural Neolithic period. By the Axial Age (200 B.C. through A.D. 1500), myths became internalized, so that they no longer needed to be acted out. Reason, says Armstrong, largely supplanted myth in the Post-Axial Period, which she sees as a source of cultural and spiritual impoverishment; she even appears, simplistically, to attribute genocide to the loss of "the sense of sacredness" myth offers. Armstrong goes on to relate that in the 20th century, a number of writers, such as Eliot, Joyce, Mann and Rushdie, recovered the power of myth for contemporary culture. Although the book offers no new perspectives or information on the history of myth, it does provide a functional survey of mythology's history.
So, if the Da Vici Code is a bad myth, so it appears are the stories related in the Bible. Any comment prue ?
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Post by To seabisquit on May 26, 2006 8:24:05 GMT -5
I think that the author of the davinci code might be blasphemous! Interesting. Could you elaborate?
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Post by amazed on May 26, 2006 8:33:51 GMT -5
I haven't seen either and have no desire to. As I stated in another thread I want to read the Da Vinci Code so that I know what I'm talking about when trying to refute the idea that it is based on facts.
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Post by ilylo on May 26, 2006 8:36:13 GMT -5
What does the Da Vinci Code and the singer Madonna have to do with "Exes and their culture"?
This thread was hijacked by its originator.
edit: I know just as many 2x2s who have read the book or seen the movie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2006 8:43:49 GMT -5
I plan to see and or read the Davinci Code. It looks like good fiction.
I think that Christians make a mistake when we just blanketly, and vehemently condemn things like this. While we probably don't agree with the author's point of view, unsaved people will see it and will wonder why believers are so afraid of a book/movie. Plus we just give it good publicity... remember the Last Temptation of Christ?
We need to not let anger be our response, and we need to stop expecting an unbelieving world to act any differently than unbelievers would.
You don't have to go and see it, or read the book, frankly all of the stories that make up the book's premise have been debunked by Christian and secular studies. I don't want my kids to see my living my faith out of a perceived position of fear. I won't go and see/support things that are obviously evil- pornography, etc., but my family lives in this world, and we are told to be light in it.
No one can see a light that is hidden under a barrel, or locked up in it's safe compound. I will pick the movie and book apart, but like with other questionable stuff like Harry Potter, which I read with my oldest, to compare it with another magical series of books- The Chronicles of Narnia, I will be able to discuss what I like, don't like and why.
Most kids and people are like ly to give you a hearing if you can discuss a topic rather than just issue the edict of "Because I said so, that's why."
I am not condemning those who choose not to see this movie- I am just offering a reason why we might need to engage the world's culture a bit to help us reach people that were created in His image, and whom He has commanded us to be His agents of reconciliation to. They may not believe us, but that is not in our hands- we are to obey His call to go out to them, and that will be enough. We step out of our comfort, and step into risk. He is able to handle the rest.
Karl
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Post by Zorro on May 26, 2006 8:59:21 GMT -5
What does the Da Vinci Code and the singer Madonna have to do with "Exes and their culture"?
This thread was hijacked by its originator.
I agree that there is an implied derision in the whole premise. Nonetheless, I'll put that aside and answer the question. Yes, I saw The DaVinci Code - for the sole purpose of being able to engage in dialogue if presented, which it has. Was I "offended"? That's probably not the word I would choose because I want to be able to engage peaceful dialogue, I want to understand the other's point of view as best I can....and being offended doesn't lend itself well to that approach. I would say that my spiritual sensibilities were attacked. It's difficult to endure, but I'm glad I did. I've had some very, very good conversations with co-workers this week that I'd never have had otherwise. Madonna's impact on the social scene is minuscule compared to the DaVinci Code. She'll make a few headlines and fade away until her next desperate publicity stunt.
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Post by Will on May 26, 2006 9:31:17 GMT -5
I understand the term for this type of novel is "Faction". Take some facts and mix in a bunch of fiction. The main problem here is that most folks are not Bible scholars so they don't know fact from fiction. This is Dan Brown's style. He did the same thing in "Deception Point" making NASA the villain, for example. When I read the book it did prompt me to look at some of the Nag Hammadi Gnostic gospels. Seems to me there was good reason to omit some writings when the Bible was canonized and these books are examples of that! Makes for a good Bible study. Paul directed a lot of his writings at the gnostics of the day. Anyway, Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction and the movie is certainly that. That's my two cents worth...
Not sure what the purpose of the thread is. I observe that current 2x2s seem to NEED to entrap exes. There is a need to portray exes as having become sinful and wordly so that innies can point fingers and say, "see, told you so." I get the feeling that is what this thread is about.
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Post by mrleo unplugged on May 26, 2006 10:34:37 GMT -5
Madonna has often used religious iconography to provoke a political response. And she has just as often been "crucified" for it by those who find it offensive. As I understand it, besides the obvious shock factor, that is the point of her latest use of the cross in her current tour. But it's hardly a desperate publicity stunt...yes, it makes news, but it's essentially the same news she's been making throughout her career--and she's getting the same love from her fans and the same knee-jerk response from non-fans that she always gets.
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Post by Zorro on May 26, 2006 10:50:05 GMT -5
Whether it's desperate or not I suppose is up individual interpretation. Maybe 'outrageous" would be better. But, when I see someone who was once on top of the music world basically becoming a sidebar in the business, I tend to view such a publicity stunt as desperate. Her music certainly hasn't stood on its own two feet for a very long time so she has resorted to... can we say "outrageous" stunts....to promote her tours.
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Post by mrleo unplugged on May 26, 2006 11:10:20 GMT -5
Whether her music can stand on its own two feet is also subjective. As far as her being on top of the music world--she conquered the music world. What more does she need to prove? If it can be said that she is now a mere sidebar in the business (which I strongly disagree with), she can certainly afford to rest on her laurels, especially considering that she is nearly 48. But again, the "outrageous" things she is doing on this tour are exactly what put her on top in the first place and are simply a continuation of what she has done on every tour since Blonde Ambition. She knows what works.
As a side note: IMO, her last three albums, which have had less commercial success than any of her previous work, have been her best.
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Post by to Prue on May 26, 2006 11:16:53 GMT -5
Prue, what relation are you to Alan?
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Post by As I see things on May 26, 2006 11:20:20 GMT -5
The King James Bible was written by who? (I am not talking about God) I believe it was put together by a "false" (per the 2x2 workers) church right?
So who is leading who?
And as for Madonna, she just loves the attention. Ask her.
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Post by happy on May 26, 2006 11:20:26 GMT -5
I was a Madonna fan in the 80s but I do find her show offensive, now.
Da Vinci....haven't seen it.
I'm with Zorro...what does the title of this thread have to do wih exes and their culture??!!??
I think the two events you are asking about would rouse an opinion from any Chrisitan...or non.
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Post by The Madonna on May 26, 2006 11:22:53 GMT -5
Madonna grew up in a home about 3 minutes from two professing familys. She has always been a "show off" ever since I have know her.
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Post by culture on May 26, 2006 11:25:08 GMT -5
I don't think there is too much difference in actual lifestyle or culture between outies and innies. Both are still probably live life on the conservative side.......as far as movies, music and entertainment/activities.
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Post by mrleo unplugged on May 26, 2006 11:39:22 GMT -5
When I was an innie, I didn't think it was okay to go to live concerts...and it wouldn't have mattered if it was Madonna or Simon & Garfunkel...it was the atmosphere: rubbing elbows with the heathens, not a place I'd want to be if Jesus returned, etc.
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Post by firstborn on May 26, 2006 11:42:20 GMT -5
Madonna grew up in a home about 3 minutes from two professing familys. She has always been a "show off" ever since I have know her. Really??? So much for loving thy neighbor
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Post by Zorro on May 26, 2006 11:43:42 GMT -5
You are correct that she conquered the business, that's exactly what I meant by being on top. But that may possibly mean something different to each of us. What it means to me is that an artist has significant influence on the business in general and the musical stylings of contemporaries. Where this was once the case for her, it's not any more. You acknowledge that yourself with the lowered commercial success of her recent work. She is certainly not the Diva current pop stars are imitating. That is not be confused with quality. Commercial success has never meant a thing to me. In fact I could probably list my top 10 favorite artists and most wouldn't recognize ANY of them. Commercial success and artistic success are two completely different things, but in the pop world they often get confused. If you are a Madonna fan, that's cool and if you feel her latest work is growing artistically, that's cool too. But in the pop world success is primarily measured commercially. I don't agree with that, that's just the way it is. I should add that all this could change for Madonna with one great album. Mariah Carey was shut out from the awards platform for several years and was also becoming a sidebar. She changed that with one album. Once someone is on top, they've established a franchise brand name. It's easy to lose some of the luster. It's been shown time and again that the shine can be restored very quickly with one hit. Whitney Houston is another example of someone needing a great hit to restore her place at the top.
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Post by firstborn on May 26, 2006 11:51:14 GMT -5
I think Whitneys problem is shes had one hit to many.
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Post by Zorro on May 26, 2006 11:53:12 GMT -5
I think Whitneys problem is shes had one hit to many.
Sad, but true. What a talent....and what a tormented life. I should modify my previous statement - she needs a LOT more than just a musical hit.
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Post by mrleo unplugged on May 26, 2006 12:05:05 GMT -5
In your opinion, Zorro, which Diva are the current younger female pop stars imitating in terms of business sense or artistic/aesthetic sensibility?
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Post by Zorro on May 26, 2006 12:30:24 GMT -5
In your opinion, Zorro, which Diva are the current younger female pop stars imitating in terms of business sense or artistic/aesthetic sensibility? LOL. I knew that question was coming Honestly, right now the singing styles are so similar and pop production and songwriting are becoming so generic nobody is really standing out from the crowd. There are several voices I think are great, but I blame the lack of personal creativity on the corporate music machine. Same is true in my preferred genre, contemporary jazz. The only way to hear what the musicians actually are trying to do is to hear them live. I guess I haven't answered your question yet. IMO, even though she's a fallen star, I'd say Whitney's influence is still a dominant force. Her vocal chops and dancing still seem to be every where. Just like nobody has replaced the influence of Stevie Wonders vocal chops in the male pop world, I'd say the same for Whitney. As you said previously, it's all subjective...that's the fun part It's not often that 2 people can passionately disagree about something and both be right...at least in their own minds
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liz
Senior Member
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Post by liz on May 26, 2006 12:31:13 GMT -5
Ghost:
Prue chose not to respond to your post (nor did others) but I will !
I read 'The Book your Church doesn't want you to read' and loved it. It brings up MANY valid points to ponder.
I'll look into the other book....
When the DaVinci Code was first published and on the shelves, I read it and loved it. Yes, it's fiction but it did cause me to do some research on the Knights Templar, etc.
When a christian friend saw a book I was reading involving my research she expressed dismay, and chided me for reading and contemplating such things that cause me to question my own beliefs.
Now, with all the furor over the DaVinci Code movie and Christians boycotting it b/c it offends their sensibilities (many of whom have not even read the book and are simply parroting the thoughts of other minds: mind control(!)), it reminds me of the early 80's when the evil & wicked books came out about the history of the 2x2's. Remember how the workers warned us about them?! 'They are full of lies and are tools of Satan. Don't read them. Toss them into your fireplaces and burn them!
Let's all stick our heads in the sand....
Liz
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