Spanking

[juliette]

temptation said:

juliette said:

I would take the tablecloth off of the table. She's 10 months old... her job is to explore. Do you really think that if you spank her she'll get that you're point is that she shouldn't mess with the tablecloth... she's 10 months old.

What a load of garbage.

Juliette, will you please pull your head out!

Part of exploration is learning boundaries.

Children need to learn to cope with temptation.

I've come across your type before and you people make me sick. It's people like you that think she shouldn't play outside because of the many dangerous temptations out there. She may put something dangerous in her mouth, she may run into the street, etc, and rather than teaching her not to do those things you idiots want to remove the temptation by doing something stupid like keeping her indoors.

I feel sorry for your children, and I especially pity the children they'll someday have.

I'm not sure how you reached your conclusions based on what I said in my post. I believe in a common sense approach. A 10 month old is very different from a 2 year old, or a five year old, or a 10 year old. You shouldn't have children if you expect them to act like little adults so your life can stay the same, even when they are little. When children are very small (pre-verbal), you adapt their environment until they're old enough to learn what you expect; what's safe, etc. You're right, part of exploration is learning boundaries, children do need to learn to cope with temptation.

For the record... my 10 year old daughter climbs trees higher than our two story house. When my kids were small, I made common sense changes to our home. As they grew older, they learned the rules. Now they are self-controlled little humans who do great in school, are adventurous and empathetic. I have no regrets. The proof is in the pudding.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

lol said:

juliette said:

Kaylas said:

I would take the tablecloth off of the table. She's 10 months old... her job is to explore. Do you really think that if you spank her she'll get that you're point is that she shouldn't mess with the tablecloth... she's 10 months old.

Good idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get rid of everything else in the house that's dangerous too.

No hot water. No electricity. No household cleaners. And while your at it, pitch the common sense... oh wait... you already did.

Are you seriously saying that you would leave cleaning supplies where a toddler could get into them?
Would you leave sharp knives and the handles of pots on the stove within reach of a toddler?

One poster had already noted how his daughter went right to the gas when his back was turned. She could have been n the cleaning supplies just as fast.

Responsible adults with young children childproof their houses so the children will not be harmed.

[mrleo]

How long ya been a 2x2 leo? Were ya b&r?

As I figure it, quite a while since you obviously have two of the more outstanding characteristics: (1) you love baiting arguments that avoid the real topic and (2) you don a mask of superiority to feed and simultaneously hide your gargantuan ego.

I was a 2x2 for about 18 years. I was r but not b. I've been an ex for about 15 years.

(1) As far as baiting arguments, I would disagree with your assessment. I state my opinions/beliefs about the real topic (spanking = hitting, and I don't believe it's an effective long-term method of discipline).

(2)It's not a mask. I know what I'm talking about and I'm not afraid to express my opinion.

I would, but you'd take it out of context, twist it, abuse it, then provide some meaningless explanation as to why I'm wrong. I'll save you the trouble by saying "NO".

Don't try to put your own avoidance on me. You're saving yourself the trouble because you know you can't match wits with me.

If you were interested in honest debate here, I'd say the prior, or I might even say look at it how you want. The point is, spanking is an element in a system, and you're argument had it acting on its own so you could condemn it....... ah what's the use..... you'll pick this apart with some pointless argument...... you're not worth my time.

See above, re: avoidance.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

manoman said:

I wonder why you assume this as after years of parenting, this has not been my experience. My experience has taught me that spanking teaches the lesson - my children don't go back to the undesired behavior. And yes I do know for sure - parents have their ways.

I guess I assume it because I have some knowledge of various ways of modifying behavior and punishment is not the most effective method to lessen a behavior.

I agree. But what about the undesireable behavior? Ignore it?

Reward desireable behavior. Ignore undesireable behavior.

That is correct.

Positive/negative reinforcement and extinction.

The question is what is the behavior you are trying to change?

The behavior may not be the actual action. For example, the child's behavior may be exploring their environment. Probably an activity most parents would want to encourage.

Pulling pots of hot liquids off the stove or tasting cleaning supplies is probably an exploration most parents would want to prevent. So the solution is to turn the handles of the pots out of reach and put child locks on the cabinets where the cleaning supplies are kept. I know, I know. It is an effort. We thought it was worth it to keep the kids safe.

Of course - you could try to modify their behavior through punishment and as long as you are looking they will probably not touch the cleaning supplies. And you can guard the stove while cooking so that will work as well.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

no said:

raok said:

As it turns out, words have meanings.

There is a difference between punishment and discipline.

Are there any other words you would like to discuss?

Ummm... no thanks. I've read the rest of this thread and I've seen the pages where you've had your fun with word games and use of selective definitions. I have a life. I'll pass.

Good decision.

I know it is difficult to discuss topics when you have to actually define and defend your statements but that's life.

We all have access to the same words and definitions - you can choose any you wish as well as I can.

I think what you consider playing with words is just using the correct definitions.

[temptation]

juliette said:

I'm not sure how you reached your conclusions based on what I said in my post.

I just read what you wrote.

I believe in a common sense approach. A 10 month old is very different from a 2 year old, or a five year old, or a 10 year old.

Who said they weren't?

You shouldn't have children if you expect them to act like little adults so your life can stay the same, even when they are little.

I'm not the one here advocating children be treated like adults.

Children are children and they lack many of the reasoning skills of adults yet the the anti-spankers are the ones here who have advocated reasoning with children to no end, as if they are adults. Reasoning with children *does* have limits. This is where/when other means come in, including spanking.

When children are very small (pre-verbal), you adapt their environment until they're old enough to learn what you expect; what's safe, etc.

To some degree, but you have to use your brain with this.

I have a 2-year old who, in 5-minutes, figured out how to bypass every juvenile kitchen/bath cabinet locking mechanism I bought. I just couldn't keep him out of the cabinet until I spanked him. When Houdini Jr. is 10, I can tell him that he can't drink the Drano and hopefully he'll listen. Until then, if he doesn't listen and learn, he'll learn in a more painful way. It's life.

You're right, part of exploration is learning boundaries, children do need to learn to cope with temptation.

For the record... my 10 year old daughter climbs trees higher than our two story house. When my kids were small, I made common sense changes to our home. As they grew older, they learned the rules. Now they are self-controlled little humans who do great in school, are adventurous and empathetic. I have no regrets. The proof is in the pudding.

Great. I'm glad this works for you.

The people I really have a problem with are those who condemn spanking parents as reckless, careless, unloving, abusive, uneducated, uncaring, etc, etc, etc.

I left the 2x2's because of their narrow-minded judgment. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many ex's hold on to that behavioral trait, even if it is directed at another group of people, in this case, parents who choose to spank.

[temptation]

raok said:

Are you seriously saying that you would leave cleaning supplies where a toddler could get into them?
Would you leave sharp knives and the handles of pots on the stove within reach of a toddler?

One poster had already noted how his daughter went right to the gas when his back was turned. She could have been n the cleaning supplies just as fast.

Responsible adults with young children childproof their houses so the children will not be harmed.

Regarding adapting a child's environment:

To some degree, but you have to use your brain with this.

I have a 2-year old who, in 5-minutes, figured out how to bypass every juvenile kitchen/bath cabinet locking mechanism I bought. I just couldn't keep him out of the cabinet until I spanked him. When Houdini Jr. is 10, I can tell him that he can't drink the Drano and hopefully he'll listen. Until then, if he doesn't listen and learn, he'll learn in a more painful way. It's life.

[to leo]

mrleo said:

(1) As far as baiting arguments, I would disagree with your assessment. I state my opinions/beliefs about the real topic (spanking = hitting, and I don't believe it's an effective long-term method of discipline).

(2)It's not a mask. I know what I'm talking about and I'm not afraid to express my opinion.

Well then enjoy your opinions, and pardon those of us who don't agree with you.

[Looking back]

temptation said:

The people I really have a problem with are those who condemn spanking parents as reckless, careless, unloving, abusive, uneducated, uncaring, etc, etc, etc.

I left the 2x2's because of their narrow-minded judgment. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many ex's hold on to that behavioral trait, even if it is directed at another group of people, in this case, parents who choose to spank.

If you look back on this thread it is the advocates of spanking that have been casting dispersions on those who are against spanking.

That might say something in itself!

[to random]

raok said:

I guess I assume it because I have some knowledge of various ways of modifying behavior and punishment is not the most effective method to lessen a behavior.

All hale king Random, the child-rearing know it all of tmb!!!

You disregard the experience of other parents, yet laud your own as the ultimate authority as to how everyone else should do things.

Your arrogance is astounding, but being a 2x2 or an ex, not that suprising.

Reward desireable behavior. Ignore undesireable behavior.

That is correct.

Sounds like a recipe for a dead child.

Positive/negative reinforcement and extinction.

and as a last resort, spanking.

The question is what is the behavior you are trying to change?

The behavior may not be the actual action. For example, the child's behavior may be exploring their environment. Probably an activity most parents would want to encourage.

Pulling pots of hot liquids off the stove or tasting cleaning supplies is probably an exploration most parents would want to prevent. So the solution is to turn the handles of the pots out of reach and put child locks on the cabinets where the cleaning supplies are kept. I know, I know. It is an effort. We thought it was worth it to keep the kids safe.

Of course - you could try to modify their behavior through punishment and as long as you are looking they will probably not touch the cleaning supplies. And you can guard the stove while cooking so that will work as well.

Got it- resolved then you've never dealt with a stubborn child. All makes sense now.

[words mean things]

raok said:

no said:

Ummm... no thanks. I've read the rest of this thread and I've seen the pages where you've had your fun with word games and use of selective definitions. I have a life. I'll pass.

Good decision.

I know it is difficult to discuss topics when you have to actually define and defend your statements but that's life.

We all have access to the same words and definitions - you can choose any you wish as well as I can.

I think what you consider playing with words is just using the correct definitions.

some words have many definitions and you seem pretty good at choosing *only* the definitions that suits your narrow-minded agenda

[really looking back]

Looking said:

If you look back on this thread it is the advocates of spanking that have been casting dispersions on those who are against spanking.

That might say something in itself!

Prove it. The pro-spanking crowd here is pro-"choice" if you will but the anti-spanking crowd here often condemns those who choose to spank.

Read the thread. I have. And

you

are

wrong.

[Gene]

Looking said:

temptation said:

The people I really have a problem with are those who condemn spanking parents as reckless, careless, unloving, abusive, uneducated, uncaring, etc, etc, etc.

I left the 2x2's because of their narrow-minded judgment. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many ex's hold on to that behavioral trait, even if it is directed at another group of people, in this case, parents who choose to spank.

If you look back on this thread it is the advocates of spanking that have been casting dispersions on those who are against spanking.

That might say something in itself!

I noticed that too, and the word "hostility" came to mind. I wonder if there is a correlation between hostility and spankeeism/ spankerism?

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

to said:

All hale king Random, the child-rearing know it all of tmb!!!

You disregard the experience of other parents, yet laud your own as the ultimate authority as to how everyone else should do things.

Your arrogance is astounding, but being a 2x2 or an ex, not that suprising.

I have never said anything about child rearing practices other than to state there are alternatives to spanking.

You claim that I disregard your experiences but you are doing the same.

If you choose to use punishment as a teaching tool, that is your choice. I, and others, have pointed out that punish as a means of behavior modification has been shown to be less effective than alternative methods.

Sounds like a recipe for a dead child.

Statements like this add little to the discussion

and as a last resort, spanking.

If you feel the need, go for it.

But no matter how you look at spanking, it is still hitting a child to cause pain to enforce your will.

I think there is always a better way.

Got it- resolved then you've never dealt with a stubborn child. All makes sense now.

It was a stubborn child that made me re-evaluate the way I was raised and how I had anticipated raising my own children. Like you,

I was very skeptical.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

words said:

raok said:

Good decision.

I know it is difficult to discuss topics when you have to actually define and defend your statements but that's life.

We all have access to the same words and definitions - you can choose any you wish as well as I can.

I think what you consider playing with words is just using the correct definitions.

some words have many definitions and you seem pretty good at choosing *only* the definitions that suits your narrow-minded agenda

But at least the definitions are accurate.

I have a feeling you are opposed to equating spanking with hitting, even though you offer no explanation regarding how you can spank a child without hitting them.

Sometimes once the euphemism has been swept aside the reality is difficult.

"Slumber rooms" in funeral business, for example.

When you are using a word, you have to pick a definition. It should come as no surprise that the definition I choose is one that defines the word as I am using it.

If you feel strongly, post the words to which I attached inaccurate definitions.

[Looking Back]

really said:

Looking said:

If you look back on this thread it is the advocates of spanking that have been casting dispersions on those who are against spanking.

That might say something in itself!

Prove it. The pro-spanking crowd here is pro-"choice" if you will but the anti-spanking crowd here often condemns those who choose to spank.

Read the thread. I have. And

you

are

wrong.

Any condemnation was from the pro-spanking side.
Even this post, the equivalent of shouting, is not found on the pro-spanking side.

Can you show a post where anyone on the anti-spanking side has condemned anyone? I could have missed it.

[jude]

My mother would always stand strong on her choices for us. If anyone disagreed with her she'd simply shut them out. She has always said she did her best. Lame excuse. Sometimes you have to venture out of your comfort zone and admit that we don't all know everything. Sometimes what worked for you doesn't work for your childrens children. Your best is not always good enough.

[Deleted]

Before I focus over on the other site, I'd like to raise the question "why must one be either pro or anti-spanking? Why is it not possible for those who trust in Him to simply allow the Holy Spirit to lead regarding such things?

Once when my 15 year old son committed a series of atrocious acts and I threatened him with extreme corporal punishment and used my adult strength to prove to him I COULD do as I threatened, my sensitive daughter at the time was very troubled by it. A former 2&2er who was a school adviser saw my daughter walking alone crying on the track. He questioned her, then decided to call the cops who came to my front door.

I simply related the entire event, covering nothing, hiding nothing, and then asked the cops what they would have done. The higher ranking of the two said "Probably much worse than you did!!!!" When I reminded them that they were beyond their jurisdiction, and were in this matter WAYYY over their heads, they both agreed, turned and left, politely wishing me "g'day."

We had to smile the other day, for our daughter related having reached a last resort issue, and swatted her child on the butt and she certainly isn't pro spanking!!! She seemed alternating between being chagrined and amused when her daughter then told others "Mom hit me!"

We concluded long before our children had children of their own that we would not intervene in how their children were raised unless we saw cruelty and parental anger being passed off as parental correction upon such children, and then we WOULD speak to our own children and their mates about the issue.

So we are neither pro nor anti-spanking. We believe each child must be corrected in a way that best reaches the desired results, and we certainly do not believe that begins with "spankings." Smiles, once I had to put a stop to a child's horrid tantrums who was not my own but in my care. She was violent, and waiting an hour for her to wear hereself out did not seem to work.

Sooo, I got up, went and got a spray bottle and filled it with ice water. I brought it back to the child, explained what it was (she was about 4) and what I was going to do... She just screamed louder and hit things and me. So, I fogged her with icy mist!

She gasped for an instant and then began worse than ever. So I told her that I felt nothing, and could keep the game up all day, but all she had to do was get control of herself. No luck...fogged her again.

Same results....a third time...and it got through to her, I guess. Well, I thought she was so mad at me that life would be horrid when she was around after that. But, you know what? In just a matter of minutes she climbed up into my lap and loving arms, cuddled, and went off to sleep.

We have been best of friends ever since. She's about 14 now and the last time I saw her she told those around that we were "buds."

Sincerely,

Dennis

[atheist]

dennisj said:

Before I focus over on the other site, I'd like to raise the question "why must one be either pro or anti-spanking? Why is it not possible for those who trust in Him to simply allow the Holy Spirit to lead regarding such things?

Guess that leaves me with Skinner!

[withopeneyes (Mandy)]

I see nothing wrong with Juliette's recommendation to remove to table cloth. Or, use those little clips to hold it in place. Sometimes you have to remove temptations, sometimes you have to teach them how to resist. Pick your battles. I do, every day.

You keep household cleaners and such out of reach, because they are dangerous and deadly. You don't wait until your baby takes a few swigs and then hope they learn their lesson!

We took all the ornaments off the bottom of the Christmas tree because the temptation for my toddler was much too great. It was simply too dangerous (he fed one to the dog).

If you keep something breakable or spillable on the table, then you might want to remove them, then if your child pulls off the tablecloth, you won't have to worry about a mess.

For babies and toddlers, EVERYTHING is a temptation. They're exploring, so they want to get into EVERYTHING. (Well, not all toddlers, my daughter was very mild mannered.) However, if you do have one of those little monkeys (I do), then you'll find it's easier, and better, to pick your battles, remove some of the temptations, and choose the best discipline fine tuned to your child.

[Deleted]

Awww, wasn't posting to you, apples, but to those who do trust in Him. Your past raising rug rats anyway!

---

While I tend to agree with you, woe, and most certainly do about toxins, etc. I learned a BIG lesson when I was in Sweden. The homes there are filled with knick-knacks and precious little items, and the little kids simply never touched them. I was amazed!!! Perhaps Edgar can explain why!

Anyway, Ylva had things around on tables, shelves, what not. Our children's peers couldn't be trusted around them, but our kids didn't seem to have problems with them... I do recall one small daughter of our friends who came and broke the top of a rather valuable large crock which we had sitting in a corner filled with dog food. She also then began eating it...quite enthusiastically and vigorously too, I might add...

dj

[rampant blindness]

gnelson2 said:

Looking said:

If you look back on this thread it is the advocates of spanking that have been casting dispersions on those who are against spanking.

That might say something in itself!

I noticed that too, and the word "hostility" came to mind. I wonder if there is a correlation between hostility and spankeeism/ spankerism?

I see some (maybe all?) of the anti-spankers are immune to their own close-mindedness on the issue.

Spanking has been condemned here repeatedly. All one must do to see it is to actually take the time to read, which is asking a lot, I know.

[Dawn]

There is a big difference between stating a position against a certain type of punishment and casting dispersions and expressing hostility against people who disagree with your position.

[to random]

raok said:

I have never said anything about child rearing practices other than to state there are alternatives to spanking.

You deny it, then do it, all within the same minute.

"There are alternatives to spanking."

Your quote says that spanking is unnecessary.

You've stated already that you think spanking is harmful.

You've also stated that it is your duty to report spanking parents to the authorities.

This can only mean... (1) you think the observations and experiences of spanking parents are misguided and in error and (2) you don't think other parents should be allowed to spank.

You claim that I disregard your experiences but you are doing the same.

Prove it. Post the quotes. Post the reply numbers. I'm ready.

Statements like this add little to the discussion

Hmmmm... I was hopeful you would actually address the issue. Others have. Why are you afraid to confront situations where real and present danger faces the child?

I think there is always a better way.

And I think its not always as cut and dried as you insist.

It was a stubborn child that made me re-evaluate the way I was raised and how I had anticipated raising my own children. Like you,

I was very skeptical.

Given your position on the matter, I've concluded that you either (1) have never been met with the stubbornness that some parents have had to endure or (2) have at some point decided that you will have to tolerate certain degrees of unacceptable behavior because you simply cannot untrain the behavior.

[looking back indeed]

Looking said:

Any condemnation was from the pro-spanking side.
Even this post, the equivalent of shouting, is not found on the pro-spanking side.

Prove it. Post the quotes. Post the reply numbers. I'm ready.

Can you show a post where anyone on the anti-spanking side has condemned anyone? I could have missed it.

I asked you first. And you didn't miss it. In fact, you replied to it, but ignored my request for proof.

So put your money where your accusatory mouth is.

[stating the obvious]

Stubborn said:

The anti-spanking advocates that frequent this thread would like to submit the following as an object lesson on how Howard should have handled the situation with his daughter.

My daughter was almost a year old and she was learning to crawl. She found an electrical outlet and began to play with it.

I told her "no". She persisted.
I told her "no" again. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I made a quick trip to the store and purchased a brand-new toy that I knew she would love.
I told her "no". I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I was starting to experience laryngitis. I was finding it difficult to speak. I knew it was time to up the ante!
I moved a recliner in front of the electrical outlet she was playing with. She found another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved yet another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved the couch in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a love-seat in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a drawer chest in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bed in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a vanity in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bookshelf in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bed in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bookshelf in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a drawer chest in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a vanity in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a desk in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a small table in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved yet another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet.

THEN IT HAPPENED- She couldn't find anymore electrical outlets to play with. Hooray! I won. My daughter has learned her lesson. I sure showed her!

My muscles were sore from rearranging all the furniture in the house. I took some medicine to help deal with the pain.

Exhausted, I fell asleep in the recliner while my daughter played in the middle of the room. After some much-needed rest, I awoke. I couldn't see or hear her, so I set about to find her. I found her in the bedroom near one of the closet doors, asleep on the floor. But wait, on the wall near her is... an outlet I missed... but she didn't... dang she's thorough... and there's a hair-pin sticking out of the electrical outlet... wait... Oh my God... SHE'S NOT BREATHING... and NO PULSE!... Uhhh... phone, phone, I need the phone... 911... CPR while talking to the 911 operator... Help!... nothings working... I hear sirens...

Errmm. Uhhh. Hmmm. Let me compose myself here.

That was all it took. The entire ordeal was over in 9 hours (not counting the funeral). Sure, Howards ordeal only took 3 minutes, but he had to resort to violence to get there. I took the high road. My conscience is clear. I'm a good parent. I love my child. I never hit my child. I never struck my child. I never abused my child. I did nothing wrong. I raised my child with positive reinforcement, exactly as I was told to do by all the intellectuals that never had children. I did nothing wrong. My daughter died as a result of an accident in the home. Accidents in the home are common. It's nobody's fault, or at least not mine. I did nothing wrong. My daughter never again bothered the electrical outlets. I thank God that I'm a better parent than all those uneducated child-abusers out there.

Well....... this is abuse!

[question]

Hello Random Acts of Kindness -

Would you mind telling us what your definition of "discipline" is?

TIA

[Biting]

I think this notion that kids learn violence from spanking is suspect. I think to some degree its an instinctive thing. My 2 year old started biting recently. He's an only child, raised at home, and we have no idea where he picked it up. We think he just invented it on his own. I caught him biting his own arm once and didn't say anything to him. I never saw him doing it again and never saw indication that he was doing it more. Then recently, out of the blue, he sharted biting other children whenever he'd see them. It's become a real issue and we're not sure how to deal with it.