Spanking

[to caithleen]

caithleen said:

No, I have no wish to discuss spousal abuse. Thank you.

Then perhaps you shouldn't have brought it up.

I'm talking about hitting.

Then start a new thread.

What people call spanking.

Ah... now this is on topic.

Hitting another human being to control/change their behaviour.

Don't be silly. You may want to equate the two, but they are not equal.

Patting a child on the back, spanking a child on their rear-end, and hitting a child in the head with force enough to break their neck are all examples of hitting. Some are acceptable, some are not.

Are you one of these people who claim all sex is rape?

There are degrees in life. You should really learn this.

I suspect that many men would be horrified if anyone asked them if they treated their wife like that.

Well, why don't you start a new thread, ask the men here, then you won't have to guess so much.

What puzzles me is why it is considered acceptable ... worthwhile .. even 'right' to dish out this treatment to children.

Because done right, it can be positive and effective. All of the spin in the world (not even yours) won't change this. Now if your intelligence and instincts are insufficient enough to make you comfortable with it, then for the sake of your children, please don't do it.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

to said:

Then perhaps you shouldn't have brought it up.

I think she should have. It is a valid point.
We do not condone adults hitting each other yet we, as a society, will overlook adults hitting children

Then start a new thread.

It was very much a part of this on-going topic.

Ah... now this is on topic.

Don't be silly. You may want to equate the two, but they are not equal.

You are in error, my contentious friend.

People spank children to punish them and/or to try to get them to change their behavior.
Spanking is hitting. A subset, if you will.
The point of a spanking is to cause pain. Or, if not physical pain, at least humiliation and a sense of being dominated.

Patting a child on the back, spanking a child on their rear-end, and hitting a child in the head with force enough to break their neck are all examples of hitting. Some are acceptable, some are not.

Acceptable to you perhaps. Hitting an individual for the purpose of causing pain is, at least to me, unacceptable.

Are you one of these people who claim all sex is rape?

Actually, I do not believe that rape is a sexual act so, in my mind, your example falls by the wayside.

But all spanking is hitting, by definition (we are, I assume, talking about the noun and not the adjective).

There are degrees in life. You should really learn this.

Yes there are. Caressing a child's head to show affection could hardly be called hitting. But, in the broadest form, I can see the point you are struggling to make.

Spanking, however, involves a component in addition to the physical act of hitting. It is done with the intention of causing pain. It is used as punishment to modify behavior.

Well, why don't you start a new thread, ask the men here, then you won't have to guess so much.

You seem interested in a new thread. Perhaps you should start one to express your viewpoint on the general concept of hitting individuals.

What puzzles me is why it is considered acceptable ... worthwhile .. even 'right' to dish out this treatment to children.

Because done right, it can be positive and effective. All of the spin in the world (not even yours) won't change this. Now if your intelligence and instincts are insufficient enough to make you comfortable with it, then for the sake of your children, please don't do it.

Punishment is never a positive event.

Punishment may effective in weakening a behavior. The more severe the punishment, the more effective it is.

Electric shock would be even more effective than spanking. One of those remote controlled dog training collars should work very well.

In the world of operant conditioning you can get the same effect through extinction without the need of hurting the child.

Since both punishment and extinction have been shown over and over as valid ways of weakening behavior, why not try the non-violent method?

That coupled with either positive or negative reinforcement and there is no need to hit your child.

I think the problem is that the euphemism of 'spanking' makes the act acceptable. Its point is to cause pain. Enough pain to modify behavior.

Suggesting that instead of using the act of hitting to cause the pain, use an electro-shock device and the idea of hurting a child to modify behavior becomes abhorrent even though the pain might be less and the result more 'effective'.

The long term effects of using punishment to modify behavior should not be overlooked either.

[Laughing my ass off]

raok said:

Punishment is never a positive event.

*Laugh* Well now doesn't this say it all!!!!

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

Laughing said:

raok said:

Punishment is never a positive event.

*Laugh* Well now doesn't this say it all!!!!

Well, what can I say?!?

According to the Guest who posted as to caithleen:

"Because done right, it can be positive and effective."

You have to wonder about someone who views punishment as positive.

[certainly not]

I can't imagine anyone seriously believing spanking is positive. And everything I've read on the matter, it isn't really effective either. What it is is easy and available.

Spanking teaches that might makes right, and I choose not to teach that to my children.

[Deliberate Acts of Kindness]

raok said:

Laughing said:

*Laugh* Well now doesn't this say it all!!!!

Well, what can I say?!?

According to the Guest who posted as to caithleen:

"Because done right, it can be positive and effective."

You have to wonder about someone who views punishment as positive.

I'm trying to imagine my childhood without punishment.

I don't know how it would've been possible.

I suppose your right in one sense - childhood without punishment would've seemed positive to me at the time but later, adulthood would've been anything but positive as my lack of control and self discipline would've caught up with me.

You're a very scary person.

I hope you're either kidding or sterile.

[please]

Lack of spanking does not equal a "childhood without punishment". How ridiculous. Children are smart, and are completely capable of learning without using pain as an incentive.

[motive]

certainly said:

Spanking teaches that might makes right

only if that's your motive.

If you're going to spank them just to push them around then yep, they'll learn that "might makes right".

In our home, spanking teaches self control, discipline, and that life has consequences.

[my two cents]

Well I just spanked my little girl on her bare buns - a sharp spank, because she was turning on the gas fireplace..she has been told millions of times not to do it, and she knows it is dangerous and only mommy is allowed to turn the fireplace on. However when I was not looking she was playing with the light and the fire was on. She is goiong on 3 yrs old. I spanked her because she could easily burn herself or it is a very dangerous thing for her to disobey me on this one.

I see nothing wrong with spanking on the bare buns for the child disobeying on things that can be extremely harmful to them or others.

Just my two cents.

[to please pay attention]

please said:

Lack of spanking does not equal a "childhood without punishment". How ridiculous. Children are smart, and are completely capable of learning without using pain as an incentive.

uh can you please try to keep up with the conversation... 'cause you completely missed the direction of the conversation.

[too 2 cents]

my said:

Well I just spanked my little girl on her bare buns - a sharp spank, because she was turning on the gas fireplace..she has been told millions of times not to do it, and she knows it is dangerous and only mommy is allowed to turn the fireplace on. However when I was not looking she was playing with the light and the fire was on. She is goiong on 3 yrs old. I spanked her because she could easily burn herself or it is a very dangerous thing for her to disobey me on this one.

I see nothing wrong with spanking on the bare buns for the child disobeying on things that can be extremely harmful to them or others.

Just my two cents.

fine - rumpy pumpy your kid up - see if we care - we'll stick with unsuperstitious educated ways of raising our babies up

[please]

That just makes no sense. Motive has nothing to do with it. The message behind spanking is that you will do as I say because if you don't I'll hurt you. How else does it have any effect at all? Pretty it up any way that makes you feel better. Your motive for doing something has little effect on the perspective of the recipient.

I personally believe that children are smart. Smarter than adults, in fact, especially since learning is their primary job. I have always felt that giving a sensible explanation for why a certain behavior is unacceptable results in the cessation of the behavior. Simple, effective, non-violent, none of those pesky mixed messages.

[Cessna Pilot]

Our son refused to do his homework so we took his XBox (in his room) away. He found where we hid it and put it back in his room.

So we took his Xbox away and his television and locked it in a cabinet in the garage. He broke into the cabinet and put it back in his room.

To keep us out of his room, he installed some kind of lock on his door so we couldn't get in.

So we switched off the circuit breaker to his room. He switched the circuit breaker back on and super-glued them or something because they won't budge now.

We won't spank him.

Any suggestions from here?

[PTSX7V8]

What is it you're trying to get your child to do again? His homework?

I have a son who is having trouble getting his homework done. He is not allowed to play any video or computer games during the school year until his report card has only A's and B's on it. Nothing has been removed from his room. We talk every day about the importance of his education and taking it seriously now, while it's his only responsibility in life.

He is not defiant.

I have never spanked him.

[ANDREW M]

Try doing his homework for him !

When he gets it back all marked wrong, he just might decide to do it himself ?

Be careful though. I tried this with my eldest. She got one right and came top of the class !

[to please]

Ohhh.... where to begin.... sigh....

please said:

That just makes no sense.

Your inability to comprehend reality has no bearing on reality itself.

Motive has nothing to do with it.

Motive directs action. Action influences outcome.

The message behind spanking is that you will do as I say because if you don't I'll hurt you.

Well if that's your message then you shouldn't spank.

How else does it have any effect at all?

With your motives, I guess you could hope for dumb luck.

Pretty it up any way that makes you feel better.

You can ugly spanking up any way that makes you feel better.

See? The words work both ways. The words aren't what counts though. The results are what matter.

Your motive for doing something has little effect on the perspective of the recipient.

Perspective is just opinion. Results are fact. Maturity allows old perspectives to give way to results. Think about it.

I personally believe that children are smart. Smarter than adults, in fact, especially since learning is their primary job.

You've confused "smart" with "learning", kind of like confusing kinetic energy with potential energy.

I could be convinced that your kids are smarter than you in which case I feel sorry for them.

I have always felt that giving a sensible explanation for why a certain behavior is unacceptable results in the cessation of the behavior. Simple, effective, non-violent, none of those pesky mixed messages.

Oh, I see... you don't have kids yet... it's all theory now... that's okay... I've been there...

Good luck.

[withopeneyes (Mandy)]

"Punishment is never positive."

I agree, but I do believe a form of punishment is needed. However, that's an incredibly harsh word. I would consider the removal of toys or a timeout to be an effective consequence of misbehaviour.

Personally, I do not believe spanking to be a very effective form of discipline. I found this out through experience, when my daughter hit me back, then began hitting her brother. Obviously, she was copying her parents behaviour, and that really made me change my views. Yes, I was spanked as a child, and that's probably why I thought it was acceptable. However, spanking is not effective with my children (thank goodness, because I don't like to spank, and I think too many parents do it to relieve their own anger), so I have found plenty of other methods that work pretty well.

Often, when my son becomes irritable, it's because he needs a nap. Some days he needs more naps than others, some days he'll take several 15 minute naps, just to cool down, and "clear his head". We've tried timeouts, standing in a corner, but it seems pointing him in the direction of his pillow is the best way to squelch his bad behavior.

My daughter, on the other hand, has quickly outgrown naps. Timeouts are a huge deal to her. She's the type you can sit down and talk to, even though she's only three, and explain why the behaviour is unacceptable, give a hug, and then see improved attitude.

Other ways we deal with poor behavior is taking away special items, like television time, for example. However, we never take away their "pacifier items" like special blankets or stuffed animals that bring security. Mainly take away toys, especially if they are being misused.

However, above all else, I have found the BEST WAY EVER to knock out the majority of bad attitudes and bad behaviour is QUALITY TIME.

I'm not talking about sitting around and watching tv together. I'm talking about active quality time. Playing a board game, goofying around, playing outside.... being active and PRESENT with your children. The more of my time they get, the more of my complete attention they can grasp, the less acting out they will do.

Try it out... you just might find... it works.

I really wish all of you would read the "Playful Parenting" book. It's absolutely amazing- and it works.

[please]

Just goes to show there's no talking to some people. Maybe nobody reasoned with you as a child or something. Who knows.

You are correct about one thing (and just the one, so far as I can see). I did misspeak. I meant to say "I have always found" instead of "I have always felt". Because, you see, I do have children. Nicely behaved ones.

Thank you for your courteous response. ;D

[Cessna Pilot]

PTSX7V8 said:

What is it you're trying to get your child to do again? His homework?

I have a son who is having trouble getting his homework done. He is not allowed to play any video or computer games during the school year until his report card has only A's and B's on it. Nothing has been removed from his room. We talk every day about the importance of his education and taking it seriously now, while it's his only responsibility in life.

He is not defiant.

I have never spanked him.

Congratualations! It sounds like your son just isn't a rebel like mine. Damned genetics! Would you like to father my next child, because I'm not sure I can handle another like me?

[are you french]

Cessna said:

Our son refused to do his homework so we took his XBox (in his room) away. He found where we hid it and put it back in his room.

So we took his Xbox away and his television and locked it in a cabinet in the garage. He broke into the cabinet and put it back in his room.

To keep us out of his room, he installed some kind of lock on his door so we couldn't get in.

So we switched off the circuit breaker to his room. He switched the circuit breaker back on and super-glued them or something because they won't budge now.

We won't spank him.

Any suggestions from here?

Here's an idea, go out and buy a white flag...

[sure]

I'd love to father your child! Oh, except I'm a woman! Darn. ;D

[to woe]

withopeneyes said:

I would consider the removal of toys or a timeout to be an effective consequence of misbehaviour.

Hey if it works, more power to ya. Some children are more stubborn than others.

Personally, I do not believe spanking to be a very effective form of discipline. I found this out through experience, when my daughter hit me back, then began hitting her brother. Obviously, she was copying her parents behaviour, and that really made me change my views.

Perhaps you should have explained to her that spanking is how parents teach their children when all other techniques fail and that spanking is to be administered by parents only.

This is the route we took, and when our son decided to hit his brother anyway, he got another spanking, more severe. He got the message.

However, spanking is not effective with my children

...as administered by you...

(thank goodness, because I don't like to spank

If you did, I'd call you crazy. Any patent that actually enjoys it is crazy. But not all worthwhile things in life come without cost.

and I think too many parents do it to relieve their own anger)

I agree and I think this is a sad thing and where spanking gets its bad name.

Often, when my son becomes irritable, it's because he needs a nap. Some days he needs more naps than others, some days he'll take several 15 minute naps, just to cool down, and "clear his head". We've tried timeouts, standing in a corner, but it seems pointing him in the direction of his pillow is the best way to squelch his bad behavior.

We had a similar experience where nothing (even spanking) was more effective than a nap but then the naps started making no difference. A doctor friend suggested reducing simple sugar intake and providing a protein snack during "moody time" - this ended up being the ultimate solution - change in diet.

My daughter, on the other hand, has quickly outgrown naps. Timeouts are a huge deal to her. She's the type you can sit down and talk to, even though she's only three, and explain why the behaviour is unacceptable, give a hug, and then see improved attitude.

I've heard of kids like this. It must be nice. How true the comment about genetics earlier.

Other ways we deal with poor behavior is taking away special items, like television time, for example. However, we never take away their "pacifier items" like special blankets or stuffed animals that bring security. Mainly take away toys, especially if they are being misused.

This works until the kid figures out that he can just take it back as mentioned in an earlier post. Then it becomes a test of wills. You take it away 455 times, he takes it back 455 times, all you've done is teach him that you're a wimp and a nuisance.

However, above all else, I have found the BEST WAY EVER to knock out the majority of bad attitudes and bad behaviour is QUALITY TIME.

I'm not talking about sitting around and watching tv together. I'm talking about active quality time. Playing a board game, goofying around, playing outside.... being active and PRESENT with your children. The more of my time they get, the more of my complete attention they can grasp, the less acting out they will do.

Amen!

[to please]

please said:

Just goes to show there's no talking to some people. Maybe nobody reasoned with you as a child or something. Who knows.

I'm not the one resigning.

You are correct about one thing (and just the one, so far as I can see). I did misspeak. I meant to say "I have always found" instead of "I have always felt". Because, you see, I do have children. Nicely behaved ones.

Well don't have any more! You might get an especially stubborn one! Then, what oh what, would you do?

Thank you for your courteous response. ;D

You're welcome. ;D

[please]

Don't think for a minute that my kids (one little gem in particular) aren't stubborn! Having a child who is more difficult to deal with than the others, or than the norm, does not mean that you resort to things you normally would find wrong. Otherwise where would it end? If spanking didn't work what would be next? And would I have advocates telling me, "just wait until you have one that doesn't respond to spanking! You'll consider chopping off a toe here and there when the going gets tough!"

If resigning means deciding not to try to change your mind, then resign I will. I know you wouldn't be able to change my mind, and I'm sure I can't change yours.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

Deliberate said:

I'm trying to imagine my childhood without punishment.

I don't know how it would've been possible.

When the only tool you have is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail.

Children do not have to be hurt to be taught.

You're a very scary person.

I hope you're either kidding or sterile.

Yep - You have to fear those of us who do not believe that force is the solution for every problem.

[Stubborn]

The anti-spanking advocates that frequent this thread would like to submit the following as an object lesson on how Howard should have handled the situation with his daughter.

My daughter was almost a year old and she was learning to crawl. She found an electrical outlet and began to play with it.

I told her "no". She persisted.
I told her "no" again. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I made a quick trip to the store and purchased a brand-new toy that I knew she would love.
I told her "no". I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to the center of the room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with her favorite toy. She persisted.
I told her "no". I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "no" again. I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I told her again "Honey, the electrical outlet is a source of a dangerous form of energy known as electricity. It can harm you. It can even cause you to die. That is not good. Please don't." I moved her to another room and distracted her with the brand-new toy. She persisted.
I was starting to experience laryngitis. I was finding it difficult to speak. I knew it was time to up the ante!
I moved a recliner in front of the electrical outlet she was playing with. She found another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved yet another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved the couch in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a love-seat in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a drawer chest in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bed in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a vanity in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bookshelf in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bed in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a bookshelf in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a drawer chest in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a vanity in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a desk in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a small table in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved a chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet. She found yet another electrical outlet and began to play with it.
I moved yet another chair in front of her newfound electrical outlet.

THEN IT HAPPENED- She couldn't find anymore electrical outlets to play with. Hooray! I won. My daughter has learned her lesson. I sure showed her!

My muscles were sore from rearranging all the furniture in the house. I took some medicine to help deal with the pain.

Exhausted, I fell asleep in the recliner while my daughter played in the middle of the room. After some much-needed rest, I awoke. I couldn't see or hear her, so I set about to find her. I found her in the bedroom near one of the closet doors, asleep on the floor. But wait, on the wall near her is... an outlet I missed... but she didn't... dang she's thorough... and there's a hair-pin sticking out of the electrical outlet... wait... Oh my God... SHE'S NOT BREATHING... and NO PULSE!... Uhhh... phone, phone, I need the phone... 911... CPR while talking to the 911 operator... Help!... nothings working... I hear sirens...

Errmm. Uhhh. Hmmm. Let me compose myself here.

That was all it took. The entire ordeal was over in 9 hours (not counting the funeral). Sure, Howards ordeal only took 3 minutes, but he had to resort to violence to get there. I took the high road. My conscience is clear. I'm a good parent. I love my child. I never hit my child. I never struck my child. I never abused my child. I did nothing wrong. I raised my child with positive reinforcement, exactly as I was told to do by all the intellectuals that never had children. I did nothing wrong. My daughter died as a result of an accident in the home. Accidents in the home are common. It's nobody's fault, or at least not mine. I did nothing wrong. My daughter never again bothered the electrical outlets. I thank God that I'm a better parent than all those uneducated child-abusers out there.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

my said:

Well I just spanked my little girl on her bare buns - a sharp spank, because she was turning on the gas fireplace..she has been told millions of times not to do it, and she knows it is dangerous and only mommy is allowed to turn the fireplace on.

So tell us, is that the first time she has been spanked?

I see nothing wrong with spanking on the bare buns for the child disobeying on things that can be extremely harmful to them or others.

Just my two cents.

Even if the real lesson is don't get caught?

[to random reason]

raok said:

When the only tool you have is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail.

Well, well, how utterly clever. I like this one too:

When the only tool you have is a little plastic screw-driver that nail starts to look more and more impossible.

Children do not have to be hurt to be taught.

This is true in some cases, but only a fool would make this a blanket statement.

Yep - You have to fear those of us who do not believe that force is the solution for every problem.

Nope - I only fear the fools that believe that force is never an option.