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Post by New Age Notions on Jan 10, 2007 14:45:12 GMT -5
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Post by juliette on Jan 11, 2007 2:14:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry I missed this thread back when it was hot... I was not registered on this board then.
I think the main reason that people like Hawk and Bowhunter have such disdain and impatience for the "new age" non-spanking crowd, is that our society in all it's wisdom threw out the baby with the bathwater. We decided (or I would say were enlightened) that spanking is not the best way to teach your child to control him/herself, but then we threw out all common sense along with this. I can't believe how many well-educated, intelligent (in other ways) parents I see who have completely given up on setting and enforcing limits for their children. Speaking of Super Nanny (someone on an earlier post mentioned that show) I saw one recently where a well-off, educated, professional man watched helplessly as his two sons repeatedly threw their bowls on the floor at dinner time. His response was "Buddy, why did you do that?" To me, it's pure laziness.
Yes, children needed enforced limits. I would say that a spanking administered by loving parents re-enforced by redirection is certainly not the worst thing in the world for a child. It's certainly better than sitting back and doing nothing... that's child abuse.
But, I believe there is a better way. For the record, I have two incredibly willful, energetic and spirited children. If the average child tests the limit 5 times, my children will test it at least 20... and 20 more tomorrow just in case I changed my mind. I should also say that they got these traits honestly (from both of their parents) and I'm blessed to have a strong, determined husband to help guide my children.
Yes, the "non-spanking" way may take more time, you don't always get immediate results, but my goal is to create self-controlling children. There are many disclipline techniques to use instead of spanking. And yes... they work. I believe in natural consequences as much as possible. You throw your dinner on the floor, your dinner time is over. You don't clean your room, you can't have a friend over. You don't clean up your toys, you don't get to play with your toys next time. I see way too many parents (who threw out the baby with the bathwater) who shield their children from the natural consequences of life and their actions.
Here's another part of my thinking. If I do something wrong in the sight of God, something that will be bad for my soul, something that hurts someone else.... God doesn't strike me with lightening or hit my across the head with a tree branch (and he could!). He speaks with a still small voice. He lets me live with the natural consequences of my wrong.
I guess the main reason for my non-spanking commitment came from sheer intuition. I seriously could not hit my child. And then there's the running joke my husband and I share... "stop hitting your sister, and come here for your spanking!)
Someone earlier referenced Dr. Sears and intuitive parenting, attachment parenting. I would highly recommend him. I would also recommend Raising Your Spirited Child to the woman who posted earlier in the thread about her very persistent toddler. Your kid is diffferent... this book will help.
The post about the kid with the electrical outlet seemed incredibly inane to me. How old is the child? Old enough to understand? If not, your job as a parent is to protect your child... electrical outlet covers? Supervision? You're telling me that a spanking would have done the trick when all else failed? Not buying it.
So there's my opinionated opinion... 6 months late.
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jude
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Post by jude on Jan 11, 2007 3:23:03 GMT -5
Juliette,
I saw that you posted a reply and was interested to see what your opinion on spanking is. And SURPRISE!! I agree!!
My son is 10, daughter 2. My son was relatively easy going till age 3. He has always responded to time-outs and the loss of privileges-still does. I have swatted his butt a few times, mostly when he'd run out into traffic in a parking lot or endanger himself and a quick lesson was needed.
I am a FIRM believer in positive discipline.
My daughter is another story. She is very self assured and independent. Kind of a nice way to say she is bossy and high energy. She will be a strong minded woman when she grows up and will not be afraid to stand strong in her convictions. I definitely like that-as long as I make it Thur the next 16 years!!!
For her at this time I use time-outs and re-direction.
I may choose to spank her if she endangers herself, but other than that I choose to take the hard road. I would rather try everything I can to punish in a way that PROMOTES self esteem.
For minor bad acts, My son gets sent to his room and after he calms down-usually doesn't take long-we discuss what he did wrong and how he could make a better choice next time.
A while back he was really acting out and totally disrespecting his dad. After quite alto of endless battles with him, He came home to find that the T.V. from his room gone!! Oh my gosh, he was hysterically angry!! I told him that he had to get himself under control and when he consistently practiced good behavior he could have the t.v. back in his room. It did not take long and was very effective.
It seems though that every few months he has to test us. I crack down on him and after a few lost play-dates or video games he chooses to straighten up.
I do believe that raising children this way is soooooo much more labor intensive, but well worth it.
BTW, I LOVE Dr. Sears. Attachment parenting is a favored technique for me.
My opinionated and non-requested opinion.......6 months late! ;D
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Post by IllinoisGal on Jan 11, 2007 7:14:51 GMT -5
Anyone ever watch Super Nanny? I love that show. No wonder some of the kids act the way they do.Look at the way the parents act sometimes on that show.
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Post by TMS on Jan 11, 2007 7:58:33 GMT -5
This spanking topic is interesting. I have a 2 yr old girl is very stubborn, my goal with her to get through the week with only one spanking, so far this week we are good. I do spank her if she absolutely refuses to listen. For example she tries to play in the fireplace even though I have explained to her that it is dangerous and hurts, I have removed her from the fireplace area many many times, but she laughs and wants to go back over there. Due to the fact that I need to use the fireplace to heat my home, she got a spanking for not obeying. I am not going to allow her to harm herself due to her own stubborn nature. Now she does not go near the fireplace. But for smaller issues, such as going to bed, we dont spank, I dont spank for throwing a tantrum, but if she kicks me in the face with her foot on purpose, she will get in trouble. My child is loving, just very stubborn, and 2 yr olds do not reason. I read the post from the lady with a two year old boy...who opens car doors and is out of control...you just have to do what you have to do...I have considred to put a chain lock on my childs door because she climbs out of her room-and can get outside without me noticing, but that is another issue.
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Post by Random Acts 0f Kindness on Jan 11, 2007 8:24:19 GMT -5
I'm sorry I missed this thread back when it was hot... I was not registered on this board then. Juliette, I saw that you posted a reply and was interested to see what your opinion on spanking is. And SURPRISE!! I agree!! Where were you guys 6 months ago! |
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Post by juliette on Jan 11, 2007 12:07:29 GMT -5
TMS: I would really suggest reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" - it sounds like you've got one. I have a degree in Child Development, and I thought I knew my stuff. Then my daughter (my first child) was born 10 years ago... she challenged everything... very high maintenence. When I read this book for the first time, I cried.... finally someone who understood what we were going through. The author actually lives in my area, and I've been to a few of her talks. She's no pushover... very common sense, but with an understanding of the child who needs more, because they ARE more. She also wrote Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles.... good reading for any parent! Juliette
Random Acts of Kindness: 6 months ago I was in my own personal limbo. Looking back on this thread... it looks like Nitro did my job for me! Juliette
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jude
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Posts: 588
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Post by jude on Jan 11, 2007 13:58:52 GMT -5
Hey, Juliette. What is the name of the author of that book? I NEED IT TOO!!!
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Post by juliette on Jan 11, 2007 14:05:17 GMT -5
Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.... happy reading!
P.S. I believe in genetics.... intense children come from intense parents! Whenever I'm ready to tear my hair out, I think "Oh, yeah, I know where you got that stubborness!"
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Post by TMS on Jan 11, 2007 14:05:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the info on the book, I will look into it. my child obeys her father on things because he is more strict. She does not obey me as quickly, but eventually. I only spank her if the situation is dangerous. Usually I just have to slap hands to get her attention. Sometimes she listens to no, just depends on the situation. Above all, I dont want to raise a spoiled brat. I dont overbuy her stuff, and I dont give her whatever she wants, so if she doesnt eat her food, it comes out for the next meal. Most kids her age with parents in an upper class society are super spoiled, we are planning to raise her to respect her things and family.
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Post by Observing on Jan 11, 2007 15:30:04 GMT -5
Even better explaining a little more: Quirky Kids: Understanding and Helping Your Child Who Doesn't Fit In- When to Worry and When Not to Worry by Perri Klass, Eileen Costello Many times there are reasons why children act as they do. |
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jude
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Post by jude on Jan 11, 2007 15:51:04 GMT -5
I agree, especially when it comes to my oldest. I always know that something is going on with him due to his behavior. When he was little it was either hunger, fatigue or illness. My daughter is different though. Yes, at times when she acts up it's due to being tired, sick or hungry. But alot of times with her it's just that she is not getting what she wants or has been told no. She will dissolve into tears if she doesn't get what she wants!! She has broken many relatives hearts when they had to tell her no!!
And Juliette, I have to remind myself that when she grows up she will be strong minded woman who is not afraid to stand up for what she believes in. I think she is alot like me and I am the reason she is so ornery!!
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Post by Howard6 on Jan 11, 2007 16:03:06 GMT -5
Juliette and Jude, it is good to see your input on this thread and though I disagree with you, I respect your right to raise your children as you see fit.
I think in the end it all boils down to the nature of the child and what is best for him or her. This is something that I trust the parents of the child to know. All children are different; some are more stubborn than others. I would never rule spanking out as an option, and I would most certainly never tell a parent how to raise their children.
God Bless,
Howard6
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Post by webster on Jan 11, 2007 16:48:21 GMT -5
My second born came out of the womb contrary. There were times in his toddlerhood, childhood, and teenagerhood that I thought I'd lose my mind - I kid you not!
There is much I'd do differently in my parenting if I had the chance but life doesn't happen that way.
One book that helped me immensely years ago is The Difficult Child by Stanley Turecki (revised & updated 2000).
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Post by juliette on Jan 11, 2007 17:26:08 GMT -5
Even better explaining a little more: Quirky Kids: Understanding and Helping Your Child Who Doesn't Fit In- When to Worry and When Not to Worry by Perri Klass, Eileen Costello Many times there are reasons why children act as they do. Quirky Kids: I think I need this one, first for ME, then for my kids! |
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Post by no wonder on Jan 11, 2007 17:31:21 GMT -5
Quote: 13 percent reported yelling at their children and 8.5 percent reported the use of spanking "often or always."no wonder kids today such disrespectful uncontrollable little s hits...... to many parents fraid to spank em then lose it and yell at em..... 8 year old stabs a 6 year old for a toy she brought to school and we wonder why kids don't have any respect or discipline!!!!! We're on an express train to hell and we deserve what's comin at us glad i decided not to have any o' the little crumb-crunchers - wouldn't wantem raised in the hell hole this world is fixen to become with all these spoiled undisciplined brats runnin things
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star
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Post by star on Jan 11, 2007 17:58:25 GMT -5
no wonder kids today such disrespectful uncontrollable little s hits...... to many parents fraid to spank em then lose it and yell at em..... 8 year old stabs a 6 year old for a toy she brought to school and we wonder why kids don't have any respect or discipline!!!!! We're on an express train to hell and we deserve what's comin at us Children learn behavior. In is not something they are born with. You can beat them and they will fear you. You can demean them. If you do not respect your children they will not respect you. Respect is earned. The 8 year old stabs a 6 year old. I wonder where the 8 year old learned that might makes right? If things are not going your way - resort to violence. |
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Many agree with you
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Post by Many agree with you on Jan 11, 2007 19:06:10 GMT -5
no wonder:
"glad i decided not to have any o' the little crumb-crunchers - wouldn't wantem raised in the hell hole this world is fixen to become with all these spoiled undisciplined brats runnin things"
I think there are many who read here who applaud your decision.
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Post by Howard6 on Jan 11, 2007 20:05:04 GMT -5
Pardon me for interjecting here. Children learn behavior. In is not something they are born with. It's not this simple. Some behavior is learned and some is instinctual. This includes violence, which is influenced by genetics. I agree, but this has nothing to do with spanking (as reasonable loving parents define it). I wonder where he learned it too. Was this your attempt to imply that he learned it from being spanked? Violence and aggression come from many sources. If the 8.5% cited above is true, I would think it more likely he learned the violence from a source such as television show or video game. |
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Post by to no wonder on Jan 11, 2007 21:51:01 GMT -5
no wonder: "glad i decided not to have any o' the little crumb-crunchers - wouldn't wantem raised in the hell hole this world is fixen to become with all these spoiled undisciplined brats runnin things" I think there are many who read here who applaud your decision. no wonder: I agree and I applaud you as well for giving it thought before having children. Way too many people have children because they think it's just the next thing to do. |
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Post by watch this on Jan 11, 2007 22:15:18 GMT -5
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Post by clue in on Jan 11, 2007 22:39:27 GMT -5
no wonder kids today such disrespectful uncontrollable little s hits...... to many parents fraid to spank em then lose it and yell at em..... glad i decided not to have any o' the little crumb-crunchers With you obvious ignorance and apparent 3rd grade education, we are all glad that you decided not to have any kids. |
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Post by amen on Jan 11, 2007 22:42:57 GMT -5
no wonder kids today such disrespectful uncontrollable little sh-s...... to many parents fraid to spank em then lose it and yell at em..... glad i decided not to have any o' the little crumb-crunchers yeahh we glad you decide have no kids peeple like you donut deserve kids!!! |
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Post by amen on Jan 11, 2007 22:43:48 GMT -5
no wonder kids today such disrespectful uncontrollable little s hits...... to many parents fraid to spank em then lose it and yell at em..... glad i decided not to have any o' the little crumb-crunchers With you obvious ignorance and apparent 3rd grade education, we are all glad that you decided not to have any kids. amen! that loozer must be reely stoopid |
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jan 12, 2007 3:02:02 GMT -5
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Post by to caithleen on Jan 13, 2007 12:11:32 GMT -5
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Post by on Jan 13, 2007 14:38:34 GMT -5
On the larger scheme of things is there a great difference? On the physical side - hitting is hitting. The purpose is to cause pain. In both cases I think there is an element of control involved. If not control then an attempt to modify behavior. And if someone wants to modify someone's behavior - I guess that's a form of control. |
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jan 15, 2007 2:00:04 GMT -5
Hello caithleen. This thread is about spanking. If you'd like to discuss spousal abuse, start a new thread instead of hijacking this one.
No, I have no wish to discuss spousal abuse. Thank you.
I'm talking about hitting. What people call spanking. Hitting another human being to control/change their behaviour.
I suspect that many men would be horrified if anyone asked them if they treated their wife like that.
What puzzles me is why it is considered acceptable ... worthwhile .. even 'right' to dish out this treatment to children.
/c
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