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Post by snow on Jan 9, 2024 16:14:22 GMT -5
I am 68. So if you were sitting in Portage La Prairie convention it was likely me then! So sorry! I remember standing up and waiting for the workers to point to me and how incredibly terrified I was. I professed in the gospel meetings the winter before so the next summer there I was standing up at convention shaking like a leaf but I did it. Made me great at facing crowds in my career and giving speeches or addressing large rooms of staff that I supervised. So, silver lining!  Lol. I'm 65. I have no conscious memory of this. At all. But I do know myself very well. I am very good at synthesis and integration, not so good at original thought. So I had to get the thought from somewhere! It may have even been an overheard conversation (I was very good at those!) that such-and-such little girl somewhere had professed. I know it was not common for that time period. It became more common later, before parents and other authorities began to curb it, giving kids permission to be kids a little longer. (Which was a good thing.) That's really interesting. I know I was probably the youngest in our area. As far as I knew anyway. I would have just turned 8 when I professed because my birthday is in December. So I'm probably under 3 years older because of when my birthday falls. I'm glad that they stopped letting that happen. I never lived in that area after 10 years old. |
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Post by verna on Jan 9, 2024 17:52:00 GMT -5
I’m perplexed about my professing experience because I never stood up in a tested meeting. For some reason I didn’t think that requirement applied to me. I think I must have thought that was just for outsiders. I don’t know how old I was (quite young for sure) but I just stood up at convention and gave my testimony. I don’t know what I was thinking. I didn’t follow it up with taking part in meetings. No one talked to me about it. The next year I gave my testimony again at convention and this time I followed it up by taking part in fellowship meetings. I guess I never got the memo. Maybe that’s what I did wrong. Never followed the rules from the beginning. That's interesting. I always knew I had to if I wanted to take part in meeting. Seems I just didn’t get the memo! |
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Post by snow on Jan 9, 2024 17:56:10 GMT -5
That's interesting. I always knew I had to if I wanted to take part in meeting. Seems I just didn’t get the memo! lol I wish I'd never got that memo! No that's not entirely true. Professing, especially so young, taught me who I was, what I could do and let me know what I didn't want to be in the end. |
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Post by fixit on Jan 9, 2024 19:39:09 GMT -5
I’m perplexed about my professing experience because I never stood up in a tested meeting. For some reason I didn’t think that requirement applied to me. I think I must have thought that was just for outsiders. I don’t know how old I was (quite young for sure) but I just stood up at convention and gave my testimony. I don’t know what I was thinking. I didn’t follow it up with taking part in meetings. No one talked to me about it. The next year I gave my testimony again at convention and this time I followed it up by taking part in fellowship meetings. I guess I never got the memo. Maybe that’s what I did wrong. Never followed the rules from the beginning. Thanks for telling us your experience. One could ask: is standing in a tested meeting a biblical requirement to be accepted into fellowship? |
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Post by verna on Jan 9, 2024 19:40:37 GMT -5
I’m perplexed about my professing experience because I never stood up in a tested meeting. For some reason I didn’t think that requirement applied to me. I think I must have thought that was just for outsiders. I don’t know how old I was (quite young for sure) but I just stood up at convention and gave my testimony. I don’t know what I was thinking. I didn’t follow it up with taking part in meetings. No one talked to me about it. The next year I gave my testimony again at convention and this time I followed it up by taking part in fellowship meetings. I guess I never got the memo. Maybe that’s what I did wrong. Never followed the rules from the beginning. Thanks for telling us your experience. One could ask: is standing in a tested meeting a biblical requirement for joining a church? If my experience is any indication, no. |
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Post by Dan on Jan 9, 2024 22:24:25 GMT -5
I’m perplexed about my professing experience because I never stood up in a tested meeting. For some reason I didn’t think that requirement applied to me. I think I must have thought that was just for outsiders. I don’t know how old I was (quite young for sure) but I just stood up at convention and gave my testimony. I don’t know what I was thinking. I didn’t follow it up with taking part in meetings. No one talked to me about it. The next year I gave my testimony again at convention and this time I followed it up by taking part in fellowship meetings. I guess I never got the memo. Maybe that’s what I did wrong. Never followed the rules from the beginning. Thanks for telling us your experience. One could ask: is standing in a tested meeting a biblical requirement to be accepted into fellowship?
I'd say yes. Your just a guest, not one of the friends until you profess. A person must profess prior to taking part (testimony) and they must be baptized prior to partaking in the emblems.
I would have liked to have heard Verna's and Snow's testimonies, must have been a far cry from how they think now . 12 years old was kind of the benchmark minimum age back when I professed. |
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Post by verna on Jan 9, 2024 22:29:25 GMT -5
Thanks for telling us your experience. One could ask: is standing in a tested meeting a biblical requirement to be accepted into fellowship?
I'd say yes. Your just a guest, not one of the friends until you profess. A person must profess prior to taking part (testimony) and they must be baptized prior to partaking in the emblems.
I would have liked to have heard Verna's and Snow's testimonies, must have been a far cry from how they think now . 12 years old was kind of the benchmark minimum age back when I professed. Haha. You got that right Dan. A far cry! Pretty sure I processed long before 12. |
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Post by Dan on Jan 9, 2024 23:01:14 GMT -5
I'd say yes. Your just a guest, not one of the friends until you profess. A person must profess prior to taking part (testimony) and they must be baptized prior to partaking in the emblems.
I would have liked to have heard Verna's and Snow's testimonies, must have been a far cry from how they think now . 12 years old was kind of the benchmark minimum age back when I professed. Haha. You got that right Dan. A far cry! Pretty sure I processed long before 12.
I'm sure you first testimony was simple, something like, "I'd like to be faithful".. Suffice to say, you've failed miserably Time to own-up now and keep that pledge! Its easy, never too late, and gives you purpose. But since you were a little kid, I won't hold you to any whimsical decision you made back then |
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Post by verna on Jan 9, 2024 23:04:24 GMT -5
Haha. You got that right Dan. A far cry! Pretty sure I processed long before 12.
I'm sure you first testimony was simple, something like, "I'd like to be faithful".. Suffice to say, you've failed miserably Time to own-up now and keep that pledge! Its easy, never too late, and gives you purpose. But since you were a little kid, I won't hold you to any whimsical decision you made back then I am learning that I have been faithful. I have been honest and authentic and sincere. |
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Post by Dan on Jan 9, 2024 23:11:05 GMT -5
I'm sure you first testimony was simple, something like, "I'd like to be faithful".. Suffice to say, you've failed miserably Time to own-up now and keep that pledge! Its easy, never too late, and gives you purpose. But since you were a little kid, I won't hold you to any whimsical decision you made back then I am learning that I have been faithful. I have been honest and authentic and sincere.
That doesn't sound very religious to me! Those superficial things don't matter, if your skirt didn't cover your knees in meeting, that's the type of thing that would send you straight to hell For God's sake girl, get your priorities in order! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 23:11:31 GMT -5
I’m perplexed about my professing experience because I never stood up in a tested meeting. For some reason I didn’t think that requirement applied to me. I think I must have thought that was just for outsiders. I don’t know how old I was (quite young for sure) but I just stood up at convention and gave my testimony. I don’t know what I was thinking. I didn’t follow it up with taking part in meetings. No one talked to me about it. The next year I gave my testimony again at convention and this time I followed it up by taking part in fellowship meetings. I guess I never got the memo. Maybe that’s what I did wrong. Never followed the rules from the beginning. Thanks for telling us your experience. One could ask: is standing in a tested meeting a biblical requirement to be accepted into fellowship? It seems to be done mostly in public in scripture (of course things are going on in the heart before that)...there is no verse for it....almost every denomination that I am aware of has some public way of doing that the 2x2's are no different. |
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Post by snow on Jan 10, 2024 16:42:08 GMT -5
Haha. You got that right Dan. A far cry! Pretty sure I processed long before 12. I'm sure you first testimony was simple, something like, "I'd like to be faithful".. Suffice to say, you've failed miserably Time to own-up now and keep that pledge! Its easy, never too late, and gives you purpose. But since you were a little kid, I won't hold you to any whimsical decision you made back then To be honest, I was so scared I don't remember what I said the first time. I got better after that though and I would read a piece of scripture that spoke to me and I'd talk about it. I'm sure I said the 'I'd like to do better in the coming days' a lot though  I am who I am today and I'm at peace with that. I am honest about what I believe and I don't pretend to be something I'm not. If there is a god I'm sure he's happier that I'm being honest and saying I believe when I really don't. That would be a lie if I said I believed or continued professing just because it made my parents happier. You're right, I really failed at having faith. |
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Post by Admin on Jan 10, 2024 20:53:50 GMT -5
To be honest, I was so scared I don't remember what I said the first time. I got better after that though and I would read a piece of scripture that spoke to me and I'd talk about it. I'm sure I said the 'I'd like to do better in the coming days' a lot though ' I'd like to do better in the coming days'! That's surely been the stock phrase of good 2x2s through the ages, not so different today (actually, no difference at all I assume anywhere in the wide world - the emphasis still on what we can do for God). Our efforts! In reality, if we walk by faith and not by sight, surely not just better words to say in testimony, but better creed to live by as someone with meaningful, living faith is "I'd like to be more yielded to God, trusting him in every aspect of life" (meaning, God is on the throne not us, hence trusting God's efforts in my life rather than my own). Just a thought  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2024 20:58:57 GMT -5
If that's your takeaway from what was said, you probably were not even listening to everything before that...
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Post by SharonArnold on Jan 10, 2024 22:07:14 GMT -5
I'm sure you first testimony was simple, something like, "I'd like to be faithful".. Suffice to say, you've failed miserably Time to own-up now and keep that pledge! Its easy, never too late, and gives you purpose. But since you were a little kid, I won't hold you to any whimsical decision you made back then To be honest, I was so scared I don't remember what I said the first time. I got better after that though and I would read a piece of scripture that spoke to me and I'd talk about it. I'm sure I said the 'I'd like to do better in the coming days' a lot though I am who I am today and I'm at peace with that. I am honest about what I believe and I don't pretend to be something I'm not. If there is a god I'm sure he's happier that I'm being honest and saying I believe when I really don't. That would be a lie if I said I believed or continued professing just because it made my parents happier. You're right, I really failed at having faith. Overall, I am a probably a pretty judgemental person. My life experience has convicted me over things that are generally right and things that are generally wrong. Things that will help you prosper in life, things that will make you a loser at life. I don’t apologize even a tiny bit for that. However. For me, fellowship meeting was a place where you showed up, bared your heart, shared something that was somehow meaningful to you, with all the openness and sincerity that you could find within you. Never was it about public speaking or being smooth. Never was it about saying something clever or profound. Whether you were 6 or 60 or 90, sincerely sharing something that was meaningful to you was never dependent on your age, intelligence, or the sophistication of your life view. |
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Post by Admin on Jan 10, 2024 22:39:46 GMT -5
For me, fellowship meeting was a place where you showed up, bared your heart, shared something that was somehow meaningful to you, with all the openness and sincerity that you could find within you. Never was it about public speaking or being smooth. Never was it about saying something clever or profound. Whether you were 6 or 60 or 90, sincerely sharing something that was meaningful to you was never dependent on your age, intelligence, or the sophistication of your life view. Spot on. However, if young kids were subject to correct (biblically, scripturally sound) teaching from the very youngest age that they sat in meeting, then rather than absorbing that they needed to "do better in coming days", they would have embraced and spoken about: love, not fear of a disciplinarian God joy of life with our provider God, rather than fear of hell walking by faith/trust, rather than following man-made form of rules freedom in Christ, rather than trying (& always failing) to "do better" with all the rules like appearance, dress length, etc. etc. and so on. It could/should be so much better, positive, happy for kids rather than the fear and 'abuse' that has been the experience of many who have presented here. (it wasn't my experience, what we read here - which is both educational and so sad/tragic for me to read) admin |
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Post by Dan on Jan 11, 2024 4:05:32 GMT -5
To be honest, I was so scared I don't remember what I said the first time. I got better after that though and I would read a piece of scripture that spoke to me and I'd talk about it. I'm sure I said the 'I'd like to do better in the coming days' a lot though I am who I am today and I'm at peace with that. I am honest about what I believe and I don't pretend to be something I'm not. If there is a god I'm sure he's happier that I'm being honest and saying I believe when I really don't. That would be a lie if I said I believed or continued professing just because it made my parents happier. You're right, I really failed at having faith.
Believing isn't easy for anyone because there's always more questions than answers. One cannot be logically convinced of God, its something you surrender to when no other feasible answers exist. I suspect that if you only had access to the gospels, you might relate to Christ, but it was the rest of the bible that swayed you away from Christianity. No one wants to believe in a 'mean' God, and by your perception of right & wrong, the biblical God is not good. In that respect, I understand why you have no desire to believe in him.
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Post by snow on Jan 11, 2024 14:51:44 GMT -5
To be honest, I was so scared I don't remember what I said the first time. I got better after that though and I would read a piece of scripture that spoke to me and I'd talk about it. I'm sure I said the 'I'd like to do better in the coming days' a lot though I am who I am today and I'm at peace with that. I am honest about what I believe and I don't pretend to be something I'm not. If there is a god I'm sure he's happier that I'm being honest and saying I believe when I really don't. That would be a lie if I said I believed or continued professing just because it made my parents happier. You're right, I really failed at having faith. Overall, I am a probably a pretty judgemental person. My life experience has convicted me over things that are generally right and things that are generally wrong. Things that will help you prosper in life, things that will make you a loser at life. I don’t apologize even a tiny bit for that. However. For me, fellowship meeting was a place where you showed up, bared your heart, shared something that was somehow meaningful to you, with all the openness and sincerity that you could find within you. Never was it about public speaking or being smooth. Never was it about saying something clever or profound. Whether you were 6 or 60 or 90, sincerely sharing something that was meaningful to you was never dependent on your age, intelligence, or the sophistication of your life view. I agree with that. I was very sincere about what I was saying. It was meaningful to me at the time. Public speaking wasn't on my radar back then. But that kind of exposure of talking at convention did help me later in life when I had to talk to large groups. |
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Post by snow on Jan 11, 2024 14:57:13 GMT -5
To be honest, I was so scared I don't remember what I said the first time. I got better after that though and I would read a piece of scripture that spoke to me and I'd talk about it. I'm sure I said the 'I'd like to do better in the coming days' a lot though I am who I am today and I'm at peace with that. I am honest about what I believe and I don't pretend to be something I'm not. If there is a god I'm sure he's happier that I'm being honest and saying I believe when I really don't. That would be a lie if I said I believed or continued professing just because it made my parents happier. You're right, I really failed at having faith. Believing isn't easy for anyone because there's always more questions than answers. One cannot be logically convinced of God, its something you surrender to when no other feasible answers exist. I suspect that if you only had access to the gospels, you might relate to Christ, but it was the rest of the bible that swayed you away from Christianity. No one wants to believe in a 'mean' God, and by your perception of right & wrong, the biblical God is not good. In that respect, I understand why you have no desire to believe in him.
You're probably right Dan. I know that for part of my life I did believe there was a higher power, but it wasn't the Christian God. It was an entity that I was a part of and was about love etc. My journey took me to a place where I just couldn't believe in that anymore either. I realized that I was believing in something that I had to have faith in to believe it and I realized that for me that didn't make sense anymore. Why would I have faith to believe something I had no evidence of? It just didn't resonate for me anymore. |
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Post by Dan on Jan 11, 2024 16:47:16 GMT -5
Believing isn't easy for anyone because there's always more questions than answers. One cannot be logically convinced of God, its something you surrender to when no other feasible answers exist. I suspect that if you only had access to the gospels, you might relate to Christ, but it was the rest of the bible that swayed you away from Christianity. No one wants to believe in a 'mean' God, and by your perception of right & wrong, the biblical God is not good. In that respect, I understand why you have no desire to believe in him.
You're probably right Dan. I know that for part of my life I did believe there was a higher power, but it wasn't the Christian God. It was an entity that I was a part of and was about love etc. My journey took me to a place where I just couldn't believe in that anymore either. I realized that I was believing in something that I had to have faith in to believe it and I realized that for me that didn't make sense anymore. Why would I have faith to believe something I had no evidence of? It just didn't resonate for me anymore.
If there were proof of God in the form of tangible objective evidence, we wouldn't need to believe or have faith.. The real question is; Why does God require us to come by faith? Faith is really just trust, you can't be obedient to someone you don't trust. Satan and company didn't need faith and yet they rebelled against God, so knowing something for certain does not guarantee obedience. Most people wouldn't marry an unfaithful spouse, likewise God has no desire to save people He can't trust and may rebel against Him again. Jesus proved his love for us, now its our turn to demonstrate who we're loyal to.. As he told many whom he healed, "Thy faith hath made thee whole". Its by faith that Enoch and others pleased God.
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Post by snow on Jan 11, 2024 16:59:38 GMT -5
You're probably right Dan. I know that for part of my life I did believe there was a higher power, but it wasn't the Christian God. It was an entity that I was a part of and was about love etc. My journey took me to a place where I just couldn't believe in that anymore either. I realized that I was believing in something that I had to have faith in to believe it and I realized that for me that didn't make sense anymore. Why would I have faith to believe something I had no evidence of? It just didn't resonate for me anymore. If there were proof of God in the form of tangible objective evidence, we wouldn't need to believe or have faith.. The real question is; Why does God require us to come by faith? Faith is really just trust, you can't be obedient to someone you don't trust. Satan and company didn't need faith and yet they rebelled against God, so knowing something for certain does not guarantee obedience. Most people wouldn't marry an unfaithful spouse, likewise God has no desire to save people He can't trust and may rebel against Him again. Jesus proved his love for us, now its our turn to demonstrate who we're loyal to.. As he told many whom he healed, "Thy faith hath made thee whole". Its by faith that Enoch and others pleased God.
I guess that's where we are very different. If God proved he existed then we wouldn't need to have faith and imo that should be the way it is. It's really not a great thing if God needs to test trust. Maybe that's another reason why I need proof. My early childhood wasn't one that nurtured trust. I do not just trust people. I need evidence that they deserve my trust. It's interesting how we are all so very different. Some value a strong faith in things they can prove and others absolutely need proof. Enoch pleased God? Have you read the book of Enoch? He was a bit of a crazy guy but I guess all God needs is strong faith? ia801001.us.archive.org/19/items/TheCompleteBookOfEnochStandardEnglishVersionJayWinter/The%20Complete%20Book%20of%20Enoch%2C%20Standard%20English%20Version%20-%20Jay%20Winter.pdf |
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2024 20:09:59 GMT -5
If there were proof of God in the form of tangible objective evidence, we wouldn't need to believe or have faith.. The real question is; Why does God require us to come by faith? Faith is really just trust, you can't be obedient to someone you don't trust. Satan and company didn't need faith and yet they rebelled against God, so knowing something for certain does not guarantee obedience. Most people wouldn't marry an unfaithful spouse, likewise God has no desire to save people He can't trust and may rebel against Him again. Jesus proved his love for us, now its our turn to demonstrate who we're loyal to.. As he told many whom he healed, "Thy faith hath made thee whole". Its by faith that Enoch and others pleased God.
I guess that's where we are very different. If God proved he existed then we wouldn't need to have faith and imo that should be the way it is. It's really not a great thing if God needs to test trust. Maybe that's another reason why I need proof. My early childhood wasn't one that nurtured trust. I do not just trust people. I need evidence that they deserve my trust. It's interesting how we are all so very different. Some value a strong faith in things they can prove and others absolutely need proof. Enoch pleased God? Have you read the book of Enoch? He was a bit of a crazy guy but I guess all God needs is strong faith? Good discussion, thanks Dan and snow. Probably the more crazy we are, the more important faith in someone rock stable and great in wisdom is a big help in getting through this life Just on proof of God (creator) - for someone new to God, I think Paul nailed it (Romans 1): "... what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." (ESV) Science explains how the creation works (laws of physics), evidence of the brilliance behind the physical universe and how it all exists and is maintained. But science gives no insight into the point or moment of physical creation, or its purpose. Once we start our walk through life by faith (trusting in God, for as much of life's detail as our faith allows), my experience is that through relationship with God, we grow in Knowing him personally and he likely doesn't leave us in any doubt. For me I have general, but also several very specific proofs of God's presence in my life, so my faith is not just based on the miracle and wonders of the creativity we see in creation, but very real and firm proof of God's character and involvement in my life, and of the truth he has revealed to me. In other words, my faith has been proven beyond doubt. Just my experience |
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Post by maryhig on Jan 12, 2024 7:06:39 GMT -5
Growing up with professing parents, us kids never got any dose of "hell". That seems very strange, as in the USA the fear of god, and fear of hell was a big part of the motivation to profess, and to continue professing. From the post here from nathan02 , @wally , Dan and many others, "hell" is still a central part of the message. Some examples of fear and hell that were often preached on Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing about hell in those verses they are about in this lifetime not when we die. |
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Post by maryhig on Jan 12, 2024 7:08:54 GMT -5
This is a subject that doesn't get talked about much on here. This video really resonated with me because my parents were even more strict than a lot of the friends. The way the friends and workers treated me when I quit professing at 12 years old. Me being belittled by the workers when I asked questions. Being forced to attend meetings until I left home the night I wrote my final exam really was not an easy time for me. I had a year of real loneliness when I quit because I wasn't allowed friends from school and when I quit taking part in meetings I was viewed by many of kids parents as a 'bad influence' and that limited my access to some of the kids that had been my friend. I was told how ungrateful I was. After all my parents had given me everything when they adopted me and this is how I rewarded them. Things like that. I had one woman tell me I was the reason my mother got cancer. Because I was so hard to raise. Most of my relatives did not profess so I was quite upset that they were going to hell, because that's what was taught to me. Things like that told to a child leaves lasting trauma for a long time and I am still struggling with feeling like I have worth. Worthy of being loved etc. Anyway, I know now that a lot of exes suffer from many of the same struggles that I have over their lives so I wanted to start a conversation here if anyone feels they would like to comment. Finding out that the struggles I have had in life are very common has actually been very healing for me. I left 50 years ago and so I never knew anyone that had ever left. It's only been since I found this forum and more recently the ex2x2 site on Face Book that I have had any idea just how similar the trauma is for many of us. Now with the knowledge that the workers who we were supposed to believe were to be respected and almost worshipped in my household anyway, and the CSA. The number of survivors that must be feeling such trauma and betrayal. Thankfully I have worked through a lot of things over the years and have found a good deal of peace in my life. I'm so sorry to you went through that, I can't believe you were told you'll go to hell as a child. Or shunned because you didn't profess especially as it doesn't say in the Bible that we have to profess! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2024 8:33:14 GMT -5
That seems very strange, as in the USA the fear of god, and fear of hell was a big part of the motivation to profess, and to continue professing. From the post here from nathan02 , @wally , Dan and many others, "hell" is still a central part of the message. Some examples of fear and hell that were often preached on Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing about hell in those verses they are about in this lifetime not when we die. The lake of fire holds hell at end. There is no lake of fire now, it comes later of course its hell...literalism only will lead many astray most of the time...hell and the lake very real.... |
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Post by xna on Jan 12, 2024 8:48:52 GMT -5
There is nothing about hell in those verses they are about in this lifetime not when we die. Do you also say that in Luke 16:19-31 there is nothing in these verses that is about hell?
"19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 12, 2024 12:39:39 GMT -5
There is nothing about hell in those verses they are about in this lifetime not when we die. The lake of fire holds hell at end. There is no lake of fire now, it comes later of course its hell...literalism only will lead many astray most of the time...hell and the lake very real.... Hell is separation from God. |
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Post by maryhig on Jan 12, 2024 12:46:29 GMT -5
There is nothing about hell in those verses they are about in this lifetime not when we die. Do you also say that in Luke 16:19-31 there is nothing in these verses that is about hell?
"19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
It's a parable, not literal, Jesus said that he only ever spoke in parables and he was speaking to the pharasees, so it's a parable. He only ever revealed the meaning of the parables he spoke to his disciples. Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. |
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