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Post by Dan on Dec 27, 2023 9:30:13 GMT -5
So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology)
Christmas Trees are the norm here.
A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting.
Killjoys.
They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
That in a nut shell is why I left.. I couldn't find anything biblical about the excessive man-made rules. That made it a strict religion to me. Anything that put a smile on your face was categorized as sin. For a while I swallowed the restrictions, they actually made me feel special and separate. But I actually think they would have condemned Jesus for attending that wedding reception (party) and making wine.
A Christmas tree is a decoration, not an idol and was never worshiped. I liked the mtgs, the ministry, and the sincerity of the Workers, but the non-biblical rules got to be beyond ridiculous. It was never about sinful actions, it was just a control method that prevented a person from living any assemblance of a normal life.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 27, 2023 9:50:24 GMT -5
Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology)
Christmas Trees are the norm here.
A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting.
Killjoys.
They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
That in a nut shell is why I left.. I couldn't find anything biblical about the excessive man-made rules. That made it a strict religion to me. Anything that put a smile on your face was categorized as sin. For a while I swallowed the restrictions, they actually made me feel special and separate. But I actually think they would have condemned Jesus for attending that wedding reception (party) and making wine.
A Christmas tree is a decoration, not an idol and was never worshiped. I liked the mtgs, the ministry, and the sincerity of the Workers, but the non-biblical rules got to be beyond ridiculous. It was never about sinful actions, it was just a control method that prevented a person from living any assemblance of a normal life.
Do you mind me asking what kind of rules do you mean? What kind of rules do they have?. And do you have to do what they say or do they just say what's right and wrong to do thanks. Just interested what they say compared to our meetings? Thank you.
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Post by Dan on Dec 27, 2023 20:24:42 GMT -5
That in a nut shell is why I left.. I couldn't find anything biblical about the excessive man-made rules. That made it a strict religion to me. Anything that put a smile on your face was categorized as sin. For a while I swallowed the restrictions, they actually made me feel special and separate. But I actually think they would have condemned Jesus for attending that wedding reception (party) and making wine.
A Christmas tree is a decoration, not an idol and was never worshiped. I liked the mtgs, the ministry, and the sincerity of the Workers, but the non-biblical rules got to be beyond ridiculous. It was never about sinful actions, it was just a control method that prevented a person from living any assemblance of a normal life.
Do you mind me asking what kind of rules do you mean? What kind of rules do they have?. And do you have to do what they say or do they just say what's right and wrong to do thanks. Just interested what they say compared to our meetings? Thank you.
Typical stuff; dress restrictions, no TV, no sports, had to quit high school band, bowling league, and disassociate from all things deemed worldly. Life pretty much consisted of work, sleep, and going to meetings. Die to the world meant dead to life . I didn't get it then and don't get it now. Had to ditch my stereo and motorcycle too. Felt like a programmed robot. The trinity and denying the divinity of Christ also contributed to my departure, but the life style, or the lack thereof, was the overriding factor that cause me to exit.
The Amish take this verse to the extreme; "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate" (2 Corinthians 6:17). Professing folks aren't as radical, but pretty much run by the same play book. I never interpreted that verse literally as meaning to hide from the world, I think it just meant to prioritize spiritual things over the physical. " Modest apparel" for women was also taken to extremes, to me it just meant not walking down your neighborhood street in a thong bikini .
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 27, 2023 23:37:32 GMT -5
So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology) Christmas Trees are the norm here. A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting. Killjoys. They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
In the end, it is ALL about control. The ministry needs to have some "measure" to assess others, because they need some reason to be checking the obedience of the followers to "obey". No one can really know the measure of what really counts in another person, so tangible evidence satisfies the control need for order in the group.
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Love
Dec 27, 2023 23:49:21 GMT -5
snow likes this
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 27, 2023 23:49:21 GMT -5
Why ..... do they put the fear of going to hell into children? Because they believe it. Is easy. As soon as they learn to talk, every time you see someone commit a hell-worthy act, comment on the fact that hell will be hot for them. And it works best if the kids can't ever catch one of their parents doing anything hell-worthy. Kids recognize hypocrites instinctively.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 28, 2023 1:34:41 GMT -5
Why ..... do they put the fear of going to hell into children? Because they believe it. Is easy. As soon as they learn to talk, every time you see someone commit a hell-worthy act, comment on the fact that hell will be hot for them. And it works best if the kids can't ever catch one of their parents doing anything hell-worthy. Kids recognize hypocrites instinctively. Ah no way, that's not really what happens is it? They don't tell children hell will be hot for them surely?
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Post by maryhig on Dec 28, 2023 2:04:44 GMT -5
Do you mind me asking what kind of rules do you mean? What kind of rules do they have?. And do you have to do what they say or do they just say what's right and wrong to do thanks. Just interested what they say compared to our meetings? Thank you.
Typical stuff; dress restrictions, no TV, no sports, had to quit high school band, bowling league, and disassociate from all things deemed worldly. Life pretty much consisted of work, sleep, and going to meetings. Die to the world meant dead to life . I didn't get it then and don't get it now. Had to ditch my stereo and motorcycle too. Felt like a programmed robot. The trinity and denying the divinity of Christ also contributed to my departure, but the life style, or the lack thereof, was the overriding factor that cause me to exit.
The Amish take this verse to the extreme; "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate" (2 Corinthians 6:17). Professing folks aren't as radical, but pretty much run by the same play book. I never interpreted that verse literally as meaning to hide from the world, I think it just meant to prioritize spiritual things over the physical. " Modest apparel" for women was also taken to extremes, to me it just meant not walking down your neighborhood street in a thong bikini . That's all a bit extreme, we see the verse saying "come out from among them" as yes, coming out of the world but not separating ourselves from everyone, we see it as just don't do what they do when they do wrong. And don't participate in things that we know are wrong before God. I don't see listening to music or watching TV etc. as wrong, depending on what you watch and as long as it doesn't take over you. I wasn't stopped from doing anything like that, and as I grew up, I had a small box stereo in my bedroom to listen to music, I loved music. But I was guided to do what's right and what's wrong. Like if I went out my mum would say if anyone does anything wrong don't you do it, walk away. My mum also taught me about God and told me what was right and wrong to do before him. For instance, when I went to school, she'd say things like no matter what others do, you do what's right, if you see someone being bullied, you don't do the same you stick to for the one being bullied not the bully as thats what's right before God and God sees what you do. And she'd tell me never to steal or lie or be jealous of others who had more, basically the commandments of God but for a child to understand. And as I got older and started going out, she'd again tell me to be careful and not go to far. I went to pubs, but I was definitely different, I couldn't go as far as they did. I remember being shocked by some of the things I saw but I suppose that if we go through these things we can understand others. And God doesn't want robots, it's no good making people do things, they have to do it willingly. In the end I had no interest in all that, I'd go out and I'd see that drinking alcohol would bring all sorts of bad things out in people, sometimes it was scary. I don't miss that at all. God has helped me put those things to death in me. If we are made to do things unwillingly we can end up resenting people. In the parable of the prodigal son, the father didn't stop him going, but the son got a taste of the real world and realised how wrong it was, and that's what happened to me.
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Love
Dec 28, 2023 2:38:18 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 28, 2023 2:38:18 GMT -5
Because they believe it. Is easy. As soon as they learn to talk, every time you see someone commit a hell-worthy act, comment on the fact that hell will be hot for them. And it works best if the kids can't ever catch one of their parents doing anything hell-worthy. Kids recognize hypocrites instinctively. Ah no way, that's not really what happens is it? They don't tell children hell will be hot for them surely? I know some who do. But you really don't have to "tell" kids anything about hell. Just talk about it with others in the presence of the kids.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 28, 2023 2:50:53 GMT -5
Ah no way, that's not really what happens is it? They don't tell children hell will be hot for them surely? I know some who do. But you really don't have to "tell" kids anything about hell. Just talk about it with others in the presence of the kids. That's horrible I'd never say things like that in front of children.
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Love
Dec 28, 2023 14:17:42 GMT -5
help likes this
Post by snow on Dec 28, 2023 14:17:42 GMT -5
So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology) Christmas Trees are the norm here. A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting. Killjoys. They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
I watched a convention on zoom this past year. I watched the overseer of BC test the meeting Saturday night and he literally said that they could die on the Trans Canada going home from convention, so make your choice a wise one. There were children that stood up in that meeting. I know I was afraid of going to hell from a very young age and I professed when I was 8. When I quit professing at 12 I was sure I was going to hell for not professing in that church anymore. I was so afraid. It took me several years to realize that it probably wasn't true and about ten more before I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was fine. That's how much the early programming impacts kids lives and it takes a long time to finally realize how wrong it is.
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Post by snow on Dec 28, 2023 14:28:34 GMT -5
So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. We've never been told not to have Christmas trees, some in our meeting don't now that they are older but they still put a few decorations up. I've always had a Christmas tree up, I did it for my children and now I do it for my grandchildren. I'm not talking about things like that. I'm talking about the excess of Christmas and how people take it too far. Spending has gone out of control, and people all try to out do each other, none of it is biblical. It's just all about businesses making money now and sometimes people also having the "we've got more than you" attitude. And many are getting into debt trying to keep up and get their children everything everyone else wants or has got. One of mine was looking at a £500 console because their children wanted a spiderman game. All that money because a child wants a certain game. Thank goodness they got some sense and didn't do it. And the children were absolutely made up with what they did get. We can go over the top if we aren't careful. I've got a lot of grandchildren, and we spend around £20 on each child with sweets too, and they are really grateful. Even the teenagers. One of my children's mother in law's is lovely but she goes a bit too far and spends hundreds on them. One of the big presents she got them cost a couple of hundred each and they weren't interested in it. They are more pleased with a water bottle that she bought them that smelt of orange and made ordinary water taste like it's orange flavoured. We can go over the top and many do, but, I believe it can go out of control. I totally agree with you about the over spending. I am glad the Coonyites are good with Christmas. It's the 2x2's that it's frowned upon in the North America anyway. I don't understand why a tree some lights and decorations are a bad thing. Beauty and joy should never be a bad thing imo.
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Love
Dec 28, 2023 14:37:36 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 28, 2023 14:37:36 GMT -5
Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology) Christmas Trees are the norm here. A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting. Killjoys. They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
In the end, it is ALL about control. The ministry needs to have some "measure" to assess others, because they need some reason to be checking the obedience of the followers to "obey". No one can really know the measure of what really counts in another person, so tangible evidence satisfies the control need for order in the group. Actually, that's how I view most religions. The talk of hell if you don't do what they tell you is right, follow their rules is definitely a way to get seats in the pews. Torment for eternity is a good motivator for people to do what they are told by the religion they are a part of.
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Post by snow on Dec 28, 2023 14:43:35 GMT -5
I know some who do. But you really don't have to "tell" kids anything about hell. Just talk about it with others in the presence of the kids. That's horrible I'd never say things like that in front of children. They literally preach it from the platform. When you're told that all your non professing relatives are going to hell, that's pretty hard for kids to deal with. I loved my aunts and uncles and cousins and very few of my family professed. So it was really hard on me when my grandfather was going to hell because I loved him so much.
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Love
Dec 28, 2023 16:39:24 GMT -5
snow and xna like this
Post by Dan on Dec 28, 2023 16:39:24 GMT -5
In the end, it is ALL about control. The ministry needs to have some "measure" to assess others, because they need some reason to be checking the obedience of the followers to "obey". No one can really know the measure of what really counts in another person, so tangible evidence satisfies the control need for order in the group. Actually, that's how I view most religions. The talk of hell if you don't do what they tell you is right, follow their rules is definitely a way to get seats in the pews. Torment for eternity is a good motivator for people to do what they are told by the religion they are a part of.
All churches mold their congregations to adhere to their biblical narrative. Hellfire is a great motivating factor for those who refuse to submit. Independent thinking throws a monkey-wrench into the collective mindset and threatens the status quo. Questioning anything is a clear sign of one who refuses to assimilate, and your generally viewed as a rebellious troublemaker who lacks faith.
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Love
Dec 28, 2023 17:59:13 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 28, 2023 17:59:13 GMT -5
In the end, it is ALL about control. The ministry needs to have some "measure" to assess others, because they need some reason to be checking the obedience of the followers to "obey". No one can really know the measure of what really counts in another person, so tangible evidence satisfies the control need for order in the group. Actually, that's how I view most religions. The talk of hell if you don't do what they tell you is right, follow their rules is definitely a way to get seats in the pews. Torment for eternity is a good motivator for people to do what they are told by the religion they are a part of. In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos.
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Love
Dec 29, 2023 15:42:22 GMT -5
Post by intelchips on Dec 29, 2023 15:42:22 GMT -5
Actually, that's how I view most religions. The talk of hell if you don't do what they tell you is right, follow their rules is definitely a way to get seats in the pews. Torment for eternity is a good motivator for people to do what they are told by the religion they are a part of. In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos. In this one case I disagree with you Bob. I think it all about making sure you receive the proper punishment. There are crimes and punishments some to fit every mood. Wonder what I did for the big computer in the sky to take me away from your time and space. My love for you is separated by 200,000 years and several dimensions. Can’t help but think a merciful entity would have removed your memory. My time will end here, I hope you doing well.
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Love
Dec 29, 2023 17:27:52 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 29, 2023 17:27:52 GMT -5
Actually, that's how I view most religions. The talk of hell if you don't do what they tell you is right, follow their rules is definitely a way to get seats in the pews. Torment for eternity is a good motivator for people to do what they are told by the religion they are a part of. In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos. Control is needed in the form of laws I agree. Telling children they are going to hell if they don't abide by the rules of their parents religion, is not needed.
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Post by Pragmatic on Dec 29, 2023 18:04:31 GMT -5
Exactly. That merely creates religious trauma, and yet no-one feels guilty about it, or at least expresses it.
Workers invoking "when 12 years old, Jesus was about his Father's business" and converting it to "Jesus professed when he was 12" is something I find reprehensible, because it is in fact inferring that if people aren't professing by 12, they're on borrowed time. Jesus may have been 18, and in the twelfth year, given the fact that it was written after the calendar change. (Conjecture of course on my part, but worth questioning)
What it also does is create extreme stress on some who at that age does not believe, but has to swim against the tide of parental, worker and church peer pressure, at an age when they are not equipped to deal with that.
Of course, Confirmation, in other churches is not too different either. I just do not like it.
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Love
Dec 29, 2023 18:06:52 GMT -5
Post by Pragmatic on Dec 29, 2023 18:06:52 GMT -5
In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos. In this one case I disagree with you Bob. I think it all about making sure you receive the proper punishment. There are crimes and punishments some to fit every mood. Wonder what I did for the big computer in the sky to take me away from your time and space. My love for you is separated by 200,000 years and several dimensions. Can’t help but think a merciful entity would have removed your memory. My time will end here, I hope you doing well. This seems a little out of whack with your normal cogent posts, which I found to be analytical and well thought out. Is everything OK?
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Love
Dec 29, 2023 18:52:58 GMT -5
Post by intelchips on Dec 29, 2023 18:52:58 GMT -5
In this one case I disagree with you Bob. I think it all about making sure you receive the proper punishment. There are crimes and punishments some to fit every mood. Wonder what I did for the big computer in the sky to take me away from your time and space. My love for you is separated by 200,000 years and several dimensions. Can’t help but think a merciful entity would have removed your memory. My time will end here, I hope you doing well. This seems a little out of whack with your normal cogent posts, which I found to be analytical and well thought out. Is everything OK? Is everything alright? How many here have a memory of the last time everything was all right? Best policy is head in the sand and maybe it will all pass away. Just stretching out my thoughts.
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Love
Dec 29, 2023 21:25:30 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 29, 2023 21:25:30 GMT -5
In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos. In this one case I disagree with you Bob. I think it all about making sure you receive the proper punishment. There are crimes and punishments some to fit every mood. Wonder what I did for the big computer in the sky to take me away from your time and space. My love for you is separated by 200,000 years and several dimensions. Can’t help but think a merciful entity would have removed your memory. My time will end here, I hope you doing well. Now don't confuse me, please.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 29, 2023 21:34:29 GMT -5
In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos. Control is needed in the form of laws I agree. Telling children they are going to hell if they don't abide by the rules of their parents religion, is not needed. Yes, of course, laws are needed. The question is, what are laws needed FOR: Order in society (government) Order in a belief system (religion) The strength of any institution is measured by its authority and/or power to punish offenders. Religions in free societies are left with only the legal power to brainwash individuals.
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Love
Dec 29, 2023 21:35:28 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 29, 2023 21:35:28 GMT -5
In this one case I disagree with you Bob. I think it all about making sure you receive the proper punishment. There are crimes and punishments some to fit every mood. Wonder what I did for the big computer in the sky to take me away from your time and space. My love for you is separated by 200,000 years and several dimensions. Can’t help but think a merciful entity would have removed your memory. My time will end here, I hope you doing well. This seems a little out of whack with your normal cogent posts, which I found to be analytical and well thought out. Is everything OK? He's gotten out of control, methinks.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 30, 2023 4:22:52 GMT -5
In fact, ALL organization is for control. It's the only remedy for chaos. Control is needed in the form of laws I agree. Telling children they are going to hell if they don't abide by the rules of their parents religion, is not needed. I totally agree, no one should be telling children that they are going to hell. In fact, Jesus said this, "suffer the little children and forbid them not, to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven" Jesus didn't tell children that they were going to hell, and nor should we. People dying realise hell is in the here and now. And many are already in it without even knowing.
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Love
Dec 30, 2023 14:50:48 GMT -5
snow and xna like this
Post by Dan on Dec 30, 2023 14:50:48 GMT -5
Control is needed in the form of laws I agree. Telling children they are going to hell if they don't abide by the rules of their parents religion, is not needed. I totally agree, no one should be telling children that they are going to hell. In fact, Jesus said this, "suffer the little children and forbid them not, to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven" Jesus didn't tell children that they were going to hell, and nor should we. People dying realise hell is in the here and now. And many are already in it without even knowing.
So what age is appropriate to tell someone they're going to hell?
Its probably counterproductive at any age?
Jesus said, "Broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go" (Matthew 7;13). But he didn't personalize it.
Threats don't make a good impression, nor do they incentivize anyone to believe.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 30, 2023 15:04:56 GMT -5
I totally agree, no one should be telling children that they are going to hell. In fact, Jesus said this, "suffer the little children and forbid them not, to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven" Jesus didn't tell children that they were going to hell, and nor should we. People dying realise hell is in the here and now. And many are already in it without even knowing.
So what age is appropriate to tell someone they're going to hell?
Its probably counterproductive at any age?
Jesus said, "Broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go" (Matthew 7;13). But he didn't personalize it.
Threats don't make a good impression, nor do they incentivize anyone to believe.
No age, it's not up to us to say where people are going when they die. God will judge that. We don't even know where we are going yet. People are in hell in the here and now and don't even know it. Hell is here is the hearts of those who do wicked acts and they bring others to hell with them. Jesus helps to set us free from the depths of hell, he came and taught and showed us the way.
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Post by Annan on Dec 30, 2023 20:00:59 GMT -5
Since I can't upload a meme...
On this day (December 25) a child was born who, by the age of 30, would transform the world.
Happy Birthday, Isaac Newton!
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Post by xna on Dec 30, 2023 20:18:59 GMT -5
Since I can't upload a meme... On this day (December 25) a child was born who, by the age of 30, would transform the world. Happy Birthday, Isaac Newton!
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