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Post by maryhig on Dec 24, 2023 2:35:36 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. Then on the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means.
Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess.
Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take.
Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God.
Merry Christmas.
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Love
Dec 24, 2023 3:25:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Mary on Dec 24, 2023 3:25:57 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means. Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess. Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take. Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God. Merry Christmas. Why are you so focused on money? I've been in churches for many years and they are nothing like you say. Christmas is about Jesus. He is the reason for the season. I dont know anyone who believes it is his actual birthday. It is an opportunity for people to hear about Jesus. Celebrate it if you want. It is more blessed to give than receive. If people like to party that is their choice. Take it or leave it, it is up to you. The apostles turned the world upside down. Plenty of people feeding the homeless, nothing to stop others from doing it either. Lots of churches put Christmas dinner on for those who are alone.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 24, 2023 3:53:22 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means. Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess. Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take. Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God. Merry Christmas. Why are you so focused on money? I've been in churches for many years and they are nothing like you say. Christmas is about Jesus. He is the reason for the season. I dont know anyone who believes it is his actual birthday. It is an opportunity for people to hear about Jesus. Celebrate it if you want. It is more blessed to give than receive. If people like to party that is their choice. Sit on the side line and judge othes. Take it or leave it, it is up to you. Plenty of people feeding the homeless, nothing to stop others from doing it either. Lots of churches put Christmas dinner on for those who are alone. Christmas these days isn't about the way of Jesus, it's is a commercialised event to make and spend money in the excess, it's nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, the world just uses Jesus as a money spinner. And many churches are like that here where I live, so I'm going by what I see here. Many churches do what suits them and not God, they agree to things to bring people in that are against the Bible. And they have idolatry images that they worship and they are all pomp and ceremony which is nothing like Jesus. If you have found a church that isn't like that then great. But many of them here in the UK are. And if Christians don't believe it's the actual birthday of Jesus, why do you celebrate it as if is? That in itself is false straight away don't you think? It's great to remember Jesus and think of him, yes. But the world is going to far. Here's what true religion is James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
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Love
Dec 24, 2023 3:59:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Mary on Dec 24, 2023 3:59:33 GMT -5
If i remember the 25th December was a pagan holiday and Christians took it and changed it to a Christain holiday. Much like they do on Halloween these day. Many churches have a light party on Halloween. Turn it into something else.
Unless you're talking about the Catholic or Anglican churches, I have never seen Christians worship images. Nor have I seen pomp and ceremony except on TV. Interesting that you've been to those churches and seen it for yourself. I've been in many churches over the years and again they are nothing like you say. As I added above, the apostles turned the world upside down. Jesus also didn't just sit in a corner, he got out and went everywhere performing miracles. Crowds followed him.
People spend money at Christmas because they want to. It's a great time for families to get together or for people to join with others. The wise men celebrated the birth of Jesus and brought gifts to him. There is nothing wrong with having fun.
Many churches do visit the fatherless and keep unspotted from the world. Those who are out there partying and getting drunk are mostly not Christians. It's a holiday and time for everyone not just Christians. Many people have taken Jesus out of Christmas.
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Love
Dec 24, 2023 12:48:02 GMT -5
Post by Dan on Dec 24, 2023 12:48:02 GMT -5
I agree that Christmas for many is a time of self-indulgence where materialism runs rampant. Jesus was conceived on Dec 25th but born on Sept 24th. The commercialization of Dec 25th kind of minimizes what the day should represent, which is not massive credit card debt.
In the spirit of Christmas, people seem to enjoy cutting down a tree and decorating it (heathenism), and then killing a turkey and stuffing themselves with an enormous meal (gluttony). They often knock each other over to grab gifts for everyone they know (materialism), and go into a ton of debt doing it (usury). They teach children to anticipate the arrival of a mystical man bearing gifts (paganism), and to be good for this immortal Saint Nick (idolatry). Meanwhile, many adults are content watching football games all day (indulgence) with a 12 pack of beer (drunkenness). Dec 25th is about family, you and yours are all that's important (selfishness). We engage in these things to commemorate a man who detested all of it and who was not even born on the day we celebrate in his name. Perhaps it might be more honest to leave Christ out of Christmas and just recognize the 'Merry' part of it? Because heathenism, gluttony, materialism, usury, paganism, idolatry, indulgence, drunkenness, & selfishness are not attributes that personify Christ. Seeing all that could be construed as blasphemous and would likely make Jesus roll over in his grave if he were still in it.
All that said, Merry Xmas... But consider this, if we didn't have a Christmas we wouldn't need an Arbor Day!
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Post by xna on Dec 24, 2023 13:07:02 GMT -5
Poor Krampus, you don't see him celebrated much anymore.
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Post by SharonArnold on Dec 24, 2023 16:11:33 GMT -5
Merry Christmas, maryhig and everyone. I love Christmas. In the part of the world I live, the whole celebration is an antidote to the dark and the cold. By the time we celebrate Christmas and then the New Year, the days are starting to become noticeably longer, and the seed catalogs are here. And our thoughts can turn to spring! Our youngest daughter lives in Perth, Australia and sent us pictures last night of their Christmas Eve swim. They don’t need any sort of antidote to the dark and the cold, unlike here. There is a lot I do not know/understand about the introduction and evolution of Christmas Traditions, but I do enjoy them and can embrace the inherent wisdom found there. Every year, I insist on the best real tree that we can find. (My husband is naturally frugal, but I tell him that when I did not have a Christmas tree for the first 36 years of my life, I am compensating, and he just has to suck it up.) Our ornaments are ones collected through the years, and It is a special trip down memory lane when we decorate the tree. The first decoration to go up in our house is the Christmas Grinch (stuffed toy, given to me by a friend of mine several years ago). Every year, my husband says it is the only Christmas decoration we really need! He doesn’t mean it, of course. But one of my most valuable life lessons comes from the line of the Grinch’s heart ‘being two sizes too small”. There have been times in life when remembering that line has been an instant course correction for me when I have needed it, even outside of the Christmas Season. The second decoration to go up is our nativity scene. That is something I would have rejected as a 2X2, but no longer. It is somehow teaching me a lot that I need to know.
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Post by Pragmatic on Dec 24, 2023 20:50:13 GMT -5
Well said, and I agree with your sentiments Sharon. Like anything, of course it can be exploited for commercial gain, but that doesn't invalidate Christmas.
I don't care about the date, or time of the year now being right, or the fundamentalists being the Christmas Grinch and taking the joy out of it. Some see the Christmas Tree as a pagan symbol, but others also see the story of the Priest seeing the moonlight in the trees with snow on them while walking through the forest in Germany. He took a tree back to the church and put it adjacent to the window so that the moonlight could sparkle on on the needles during the midnight mass. And it became a tradition. And what a nice one, reminding people of the beauty of creation and nature.
Our kids used to choose a decoration for the Christmas Tree every year, and now that they're in adulthood, it is something lovely to look back on and be reminded of the family times with presents under the tree.
And the nativity scene is a nice reminder of the events of over 2000 years ago.
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Deleted
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Love
Dec 24, 2023 23:25:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 23:25:07 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. Then on the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means. Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess. Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take. Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God. Merry Christmas. Used to promote the spring time too until I saw the clues in the gospels and a little outside documentation. It made sense, born, died and resurrected in the spring during passover, thought he would probably come back in the spring too... The clues lead one to late sept. or early oct. though. Yes the Christmas spirit is short Nov third Thursday through maybe Jan 7th...the rest of the year everyone is on their own... Christmas in July was a good idea...
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Deleted
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Love
Dec 24, 2023 23:30:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 23:30:25 GMT -5
I agree that Christmas for many is a time of self-indulgence where materialism runs rampant. Jesus was conceived on Dec 25th but born on Sept 24th. The commercialization of Dec 25th kind of minimizes what the day should represent, which is not massive credit card debt. In the spirit of Christmas, people seem to enjoy cutting down a tree and decorating it (heathenism), and then killing a turkey and stuffing themselves with an enormous meal (gluttony). They often knock each other over to grab gifts for everyone they know (materialism), and go into a ton of debt doing it (usury). They teach children to anticipate the arrival of a mystical man bearing gifts (paganism), and to be good for this immortal Saint Nick (idolatry). Meanwhile, many adults are content watching football games all day (indulgence) with a 12 pack of beer (drunkenness). Dec 25th is about family, you and yours are all that's important (selfishness). We engage in these things to commemorate a man who detested all of it and who was not even born on the day we celebrate in his name. Perhaps it might be more honest to leave Christ out of Christmas and just recognize the 'Merry' part of it? Because heathenism, gluttony, materialism, usury, paganism, idolatry, indulgence, drunkenness, & selfishness are not attributes that personify Christ. Seeing all that could be construed as blasphemous and would likely make Jesus roll over in his grave if he were still in it. All that said, Merry Xmas... But consider this, if we didn't have a Christmas we wouldn't need an Arbor Day!
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Deleted
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Love
Dec 24, 2023 23:30:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 23:30:59 GMT -5
Why are you so focused on money? I've been in churches for many years and they are nothing like you say. Christmas is about Jesus. He is the reason for the season. I dont know anyone who believes it is his actual birthday. It is an opportunity for people to hear about Jesus. Celebrate it if you want. It is more blessed to give than receive. If people like to party that is their choice. Sit on the side line and judge othes. Take it or leave it, it is up to you. Plenty of people feeding the homeless, nothing to stop others from doing it either. Lots of churches put Christmas dinner on for those who are alone. Christmas these days isn't about the way of Jesus, it's is a commercialised event to make and spend money in the excess, it's nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, the world just uses Jesus as a money spinner. And many churches are like that here where I live, so I'm going by what I see here. Many churches do what suits them and not God, they agree to things to bring people in that are against the Bible. And they have idolatry images that they worship and they are all pomp and ceremony which is nothing like Jesus. If you have found a church that isn't like that then great. But many of them here in the UK are. And if Christians don't believe it's the actual birthday of Jesus, why do you celebrate it as if is? That in itself is false straight away don't you think? It's great to remember Jesus and think of him, yes. But the world is going to far. Here's what true religion is James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 23:33:28 GMT -5
Merry Christmas, maryhig and everyone. I love Christmas. In the part of the world I live, the whole celebration is an antidote to the dark and the cold. By the time we celebrate Christmas and then the New Year, the days are starting to become noticeably longer, and the seed catalogs are here. And our thoughts can turn to spring! Our youngest daughter lives in Perth, Australia and sent us pictures last night of their Christmas Eve swim. They don’t need any sort of antidote to the dark and the cold, unlike here. There is a lot I do not know/understand about the introduction and evolution of Christmas Traditions, but I do enjoy them and can embrace the inherent wisdom found there. Every year, I insist on the best real tree that we can find. (My husband is naturally frugal, but I tell him that when I did not have a Christmas tree for the first 36 years of my life, I am compensating, and he just has to suck it up.) Our ornaments are ones collected through the years, and It is a special trip down memory lane when we decorate the tree. The first decoration to go up in our house is the Christmas Grinch (stuffed toy, given to me by a friend of mine several years ago). Every year, my husband says it is the only Christmas decoration we really need! He doesn’t mean it, of course. But one of my most valuable life lessons comes from the line of the Grinch’s heart ‘being two sizes too small”. There have been times in life when remembering that line has been an instant course correction for me when I have needed it, even outside of the Christmas Season. The second decoration to go up is our nativity scene. That is something I would have rejected as a 2X2, but no longer. It is somehow teaching me a lot that I need to know. For the first time in 47 years there is a little tree in the house...it's artificial and only 2 feet tall but there ya go....i'm pagan now I guess...
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Post by help on Dec 25, 2023 0:33:08 GMT -5
Good on you Wally. relax a little, enjoy, but keep your faith. Merry Christmas, great to see that you are enjoying life after the difficult ordeal that you have been through. I have had a good one, had to drink a bottle of wine by myself, nobody to help me out. Hard job, but somebody has to do it.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 25, 2023 2:09:04 GMT -5
Hi again, firstly I'm not against Christmas, I was speaking of the over indulgence of it and the excessiveness of it, and using Jesus to make money etc. And how far the world goes without sometimes thinking of the true way of Jesus. And how we can go over the top and how commercialised it's gone. Selling for Christmas in the shops here used to start in November, I'm not kidding you it was August this year! There were even some isles with Halloween stuff, then next isle was Christmas, with fireworks for bonfire night out too, and that was in many shops here. It's gone mad.
I myself have a Christmas tree and decorations I just try not to get carried away and go too far, and my point was not only about how excessive Christmas has gone, but the true reason Christmas started. The life of Jesus, and even though I see Christmas as a man made ritual and a money spinner now, I can also see the positives too. As Mary says, the chance to talk about Jesus, to me that's one good thing about Christmas. But it's still gone over the top. And in my original post, I was trying to show what Christmas would be like if we all followed the way of Jesus. We wouldn't be worried about the big presents and the church ceremonies and all the excessive spending etc. we would worry more about those in need and care for everyone we meet and if we all lived like this then this world would be a different place. The true way of Jesus is love. And Jesus loved everyone, he wasn't just me and mine, he was the one going where others wouldn't go, he would go the extra mile.
Many people put me to shame at times, many of them not even knowing God. And there are those that have kind hearts, those who leave their homes on Christmas day and go to the local shelter and help feed the homeless etc. And then there are those who bring people into their homes, helping lonely people or people with little money and feeding them on Christmas day and then sharing with them and helping them with what they need. This is the way of Jesus not sitting in ceremonies like mass in the early hours of the morning. I can't judge the individuals, I always say many can have a better heart than me, whether they are Catholic or protestant or atheist etc. and God looks at the heart! When I speak about the churches I'm speaking of the whole hierarchy and the rituals of them none of which is biblical. But what is biblical is loving one another and being there for those in need and this is the true way of Jesus. Loving God first and caring and sharing with our neighbours, those we meet in need on a daily basis. And this is the real reason why Jesus was born, Jesus was born and came into this world to bare witness to the truth, to teach and show us how to live before God. And this would be a great way to truly celebrate Christmas by truly caring for one another, this is the true way of Jesus.
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Post by help on Dec 25, 2023 2:52:05 GMT -5
Maryhig, I think you are a very sincere person. I am glad for you that you are happy with what you have found and become a committed Christian. But keep in mind that there is a broad spectrum of people on TMB, different to you and that is their choice. You seem to be down on other Christian Churches, but I have been to many, all good. Sure they send around a collection plate, it is a voluntary donation, nobody twists your arm to give. I see it as more business like, accountable, the way it should be. Much better than money in an envelope. All excess funds not required for that Church are used to help others, not just members of that Church. Charity should always be a function of every Church.
There is no such thing as perfect faith, and that's something that should unite Christians around the World instead of divide us. We're all perfectly imperfect, journeying through this thing called faith together, one mistake and one victory at a time.
Some of my Grandchildren paid us a visit for Christmas. They live a completely different lifestyle to the one we had. And I shake my head and would not swap places with them. We lived in the best era the World has ever had, we were the "Lucky Generation". And even if I find it difficult to communicate with my Grandchildren, because of the generation gap, I love them dearly. So the answer is love everybody for what they are, don't try to change them, not your right. After all this thread is " Love" that you started, thanks for that.They are happy, you are happy.
End of lecture, Merry Christmas Maryhig.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 25, 2023 4:09:39 GMT -5
Maryhig, I think you are a very sincere person. I am glad for you that you are happy with what you have found and become a committed Christian. But keep in mind that there is a broad spectrum of people on TMB, different to you and that is their choice. You seem to be down on other Christian Churches, but I have been to many, all good. Sure they send around a collection plate, it is a voluntary donation, nobody twists your arm to give. I see it as more business like, accountable, the way it should be. Much better than money in an envelope. All excess funds not required for that Church are used to help others, not just members of that Church. Charity should always be a function of every Church. There is no such thing as perfect faith, and that's something that should unite Christians around the World instead of divide us. We're all perfectly imperfect, journeying through this thing called faith together, one mistake and one victory at a time. Some of my Grandchildren paid us a visit for Christmas. They live a completely different lifestyle to the one we had. And I shake my head and would not swap places with them. We lived in the best era the World has ever had, we were the "Lucky Generation". And even if I find it difficult to communicate with my Grandchildren, because of the generation gap, I love them dearly. So the answer is love everybody for what they are, don't try to change them, not your right. After all this thread is " Love" that you started, thanks for that.They are happy, you are happy. End of lecture, Merry Christmas Maryhig. Hi help, I'm only going by what I've seen and experienced. We have a local church where the homeless gather outside and they don't even get a cup of tea. Yet people walking past many who probably who don't know God are feeding them and giving them drink. One day I went past and the doors were open, and outside the gates was a homeless man. So I went in and asked the woman at the door, "do you ever give him a cup of tea or food? " Hoping that she'd say "yes of course we do" but she said "they sometimes get a cup from a few doors away" then I saw people walking out of the church and not one of them turned to even look at the man. And another time, I went in to the doorway of a cathedral when I saw the homeless outside, there were 4 people on the door taking money, (and it wasn't cheap to get in either) and I said "do you ever give food or drink to those people outside with any of this money?". And they looked at me like I had 2 heads. I then said "think about it, what would Jesus do" then, one of the four turned round and said, "from now on when I'm here, I'll make sure they have food and drink" and that lifted my heart. And today I was thinking about this again, and I thought of the 10 lepers in the Bible, and how they all called on Jesus to heal them. But once healed they forgot him, except for one a Samaritan, he turned back and he glorified God and fell down on his face at the feet of Jesus giving him thanks and it was only this one Samaritan who was made whole, Jesus said to him, "your faith has made you whole" he wasn't only healed outside, but healed inside also. And those who are truly healed in their hearts do the same, they glorify God, and not by just going to church or meetings on a Sunday, but by living it out and humbling ourselves before God, (which is to lay down their lives) and live by the will of God. I've just been looking up what the churches are worth Catholics 7 billion Church of England 8.7 billion Now how many people would that feed? The Vatican should sell everything in there vaults and feed the poor. Bring beds in and help them, what would Jesus do? He'd care for them and help them and be there for them and share what he had. Not store it in the bank and make a business using God. Jesus didn't have much but he still shared and glorified God. Now if I, who believes in God can see this, what do those who don't know God think when they look at churches today? Many have gone far from the way of Jesus. There may be some good ones yes, but their heads are wrong they call themselves reverend, right reverend, most reverend taking the highest seats, they are not doing as Jesus taught. Jesus never said to call ourselves these things, or to do all the rituals they do, it's not the truth. Jesus is the truth, he is our head, and his way is the way to follow, and it's a simple way, it's love. Love God first and then love one another as he loved us. No add ons needed just love. Sorry I'm going out now, be back soon, merry Christmas to you too.
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Post by snow on Dec 25, 2023 14:23:10 GMT -5
For me Christmas is just a time of year when we can slow down a little bit and focus on loving our friends and families. We are so busy in our lives that even if we do love them very much we don't always show it or have time to be there with them. Love the Christmas lights in my part of the world where it's so dark and cold. They brighten up everything and that's a good thing. But most of all for me Christmas is for children. It's so wonderful to see them be so excited, to still be able to enjoy the myth of Santa Claus. Kids make Christmas for me. The adults in our family do not exchange gifts at all. We all buy something for the kids but not excessively. So Merry Christmas to you all and love to you all. Many of you here have been a part of my life since 2010 and for me you have become like extended family. I value to and appreciate you all.
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Post by Dan on Dec 25, 2023 14:34:04 GMT -5
For the first time in 47 years there is a little tree in the house...it's artificial and only 2 feet tall but there ya go....i'm pagan now I guess...
No tree here, anyone with cats in the house knows the reason why!
I should thank the Aussie's for the Yellow Tail wine though, helped to melt away my troubles, can't even remember them now!
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Post by snow on Dec 25, 2023 14:44:17 GMT -5
For the first time in 47 years there is a little tree in the house...it's artificial and only 2 feet tall but there ya go....i'm pagan now I guess... No tree here, anyone with cats in the house knows the reason why!
I should thank the Aussie's for the Yellow Tail wine though, helped to melt away my troubles, can't even remember them now! Exactly why I don't have a tree either I do put up a Christmas village only to come out and there is a cat sitting in the town square lol
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Love
Dec 25, 2023 14:45:39 GMT -5
Post by help on Dec 25, 2023 14:45:39 GMT -5
Yes Dan Yellow Tail is a nice drop. That is the one I had to drink by myself on Christmas Day. Did enjoy every drop and it was a Merry Christmas.
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Post by Pragmatic on Dec 25, 2023 17:49:33 GMT -5
Merry Christmas, maryhig and everyone. I love Christmas. In the part of the world I live, the whole celebration is an antidote to the dark and the cold. By the time we celebrate Christmas and then the New Year, the days are starting to become noticeably longer, and the seed catalogs are here. And our thoughts can turn to spring! Our youngest daughter lives in Perth, Australia and sent us pictures last night of their Christmas Eve swim. They don’t need any sort of antidote to the dark and the cold, unlike here. There is a lot I do not know/understand about the introduction and evolution of Christmas Traditions, but I do enjoy them and can embrace the inherent wisdom found there. Every year, I insist on the best real tree that we can find. (My husband is naturally frugal, but I tell him that when I did not have a Christmas tree for the first 36 years of my life, I am compensating, and he just has to suck it up.) Our ornaments are ones collected through the years, and It is a special trip down memory lane when we decorate the tree. The first decoration to go up in our house is the Christmas Grinch (stuffed toy, given to me by a friend of mine several years ago). Every year, my husband says it is the only Christmas decoration we really need! He doesn’t mean it, of course. But one of my most valuable life lessons comes from the line of the Grinch’s heart ‘being two sizes too small”. There have been times in life when remembering that line has been an instant course correction for me when I have needed it, even outside of the Christmas Season. The second decoration to go up is our nativity scene. That is something I would have rejected as a 2X2, but no longer. It is somehow teaching me a lot that I need to know. For the first time in 47 years there is a little tree in the house...it's artificial and only 2 feet tall but there ya go....i'm pagan now I guess... Cheers Wally, and enjoy the festive season.
As our kids were growing up, we would either cut a tree from the orchard, (Self sown seedlings) or go to a place where it was done commercially. The kids would then choose their own decoration, just one each, to go on the tree. With years of accumulation the tree now has decorations, and each one tells the story of something they did, or places we went that year. For example, we might have gone skiing, so there would be a skiing decoration, or a tropical holiday, and bought a decoration there. This year, our son is in Europe, and we met him over there during the year, and bought a decoration each from one of the countries there, and exchanged photos of the decorations up on our respective trees. We also have a decoration that our daughter made on the 3D printer, of our dog that passed away last Christmas. So our tree is full of memories, posterity, and stories. It is a reminder of good times past, and a pointer to Christ's birth, regardless of the time of the year.
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Post by intelchips on Dec 26, 2023 12:12:45 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. Then on the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means. Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess. Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take. Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God. Merry Christmas. A moment of your time please. Just a simple question. If your God doesn’t care about any of those things why did he give you the ability to appreciate them?
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Post by snow on Dec 26, 2023 14:42:18 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. Then on the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means. Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess. Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take. Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God. Merry Christmas. A moment of your time please. Just a simple question. If your God doesn’t care about any of those things why did he give you the ability to appreciate them? So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though.
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Post by Pragmatic on Dec 26, 2023 16:37:32 GMT -5
A moment of your time please. Just a simple question. If your God doesn’t care about any of those things why did he give you the ability to appreciate them? So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology)
Christmas Trees are the norm here.
A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting.
Killjoys.
They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Post by help on Dec 27, 2023 0:40:06 GMT -5
Well said Prags, there should be more 2x2's with your mindset. The rules we were made to abide by were man made. You would be struggling to find scripture to support them. Not because that makes them justified, we are living in another era and you cannot imitate the lifestyle of 2000 years ago, absolutely impossible. And there is no good reason to do so.
Common sense and self discipline are far more important than silly man made rules. Live to enjoy what the creator has provided, enjoy without excess. You have been provided with the means to control your life, use it wisely with moderation in all things including religious influence.
Stay focused on your mission, remain steadfast in your pursuit of excellence, and always do the right thing.
“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”—Buddha
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Post by maryhig on Dec 27, 2023 7:47:43 GMT -5
I was thinking it's Christmas, and everyone is out shopping, buying presents, partying, lots of excessive drinking, eating, spending etc. Then on the religious side, lots of ceremonies in churches, money collecting, people thinking they are good and holy by putting into the collection box in church, all the pomp and ceremony. All these things without a thought about what Christmas means. Now I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, I don't know when Jesus was born, but I would think it would be in the spring, lambing season, when things are coming to life, flowers starting to bloom, the sun coming back bringing life, to me this is when Jesus would have been born but I don't know. But the way the world has gone its crazy. They use Christmas to be the total opposite of what he taught. They have changed his simple way, to the ways of the world, and sticking his name to it to make money everything is in excess. I went to our supermarket yesterday and the trollies were piled high, full of food and alcohol. I too have been guilty of all these things, but maybe not in so much excess. Then I thought what would Christmas be like if it were really about Jesus, and I thought, we would feed the homeless man on the street, try to help others in need, cloth someone who's cold, buy shoes for the child, we see in the house down the street where the parents have lost their job, see a child with no toys and help buy them so they don't miss out, sit with someone lonely or even better include them at your Christmas table and care for them after too. Visit the relatives you haven't seen, make amends for wrongdoing and forgive where you can and love. Love is the key, by our own nature we are selfish and all me and mine, but God made us all, so we should never look down on anyone and be there for everyone. Get past me and mine and think if everyone else too and pass on something you don't need, to someone who does need it for free. Give and not just take. Overcome evil with good, God doesn't care about fairly lights, or the gold cross neckless you bought your wife for Christmas, he doesn't care about the false worship and all the ceremonies, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts and he wants us to get our hearts right before him, he wants his love in our hearts, a love where you would do the things that your flesh would never do. Love overcomes evil, and if we all truly followed Jesus, and lived as he taught and really loved one another this excessive world be put to death in our hearts, and Christmas would be every day as we share, care, help even out of our little and love one another, because that's what Jesus would have done and this is the way we should live when we follow him and please God. Merry Christmas. A moment of your time please. Just a simple question. If your God doesn’t care about any of those things why did he give you the ability to appreciate them? My point is that those things aren't important to God, he doesn't care about material things, he cares about us. He cares about our hearts not about what we look like, or about false worship. He doesn't want us to bow down to statues like some people do, he wants us to bow the knee to him. Which means to humble ourselves and do what's right before him in our daily lives.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 27, 2023 8:03:29 GMT -5
A moment of your time please. Just a simple question. If your God doesn’t care about any of those things why did he give you the ability to appreciate them? So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. We've never been told not to have Christmas trees, some in our meeting don't now that they are older but they still put a few decorations up. I've always had a Christmas tree up, I did it for my children and now I do it for my grandchildren. I'm not talking about things like that. I'm talking about the excess of Christmas and how people take it too far. Spending has gone out of control, and people all try to out do each other, none of it is biblical. It's just all about businesses making money now and sometimes people also having the "we've got more than you" attitude. And many are getting into debt trying to keep up and get their children everything everyone else wants or has got. One of mine was looking at a £500 console because their children wanted a spiderman game. All that money because a child wants a certain game. Thank goodness they got some sense and didn't do it. And the children were absolutely made up with what they did get. We can go over the top if we aren't careful. I've got a lot of grandchildren, and we spend around £20 on each child with sweets too, and they are really grateful. Even the teenagers. One of my children's mother in law's is lovely but she goes a bit too far and spends hundreds on them. One of the big presents she got them cost a couple of hundred each and they weren't interested in it. They are more pleased with a water bottle that she bought them that smelt of orange and made ordinary water taste like it's orange flavoured. We can go over the top and many do, but, I believe it can go out of control.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 27, 2023 8:09:01 GMT -5
So you can prove how much you love him when you make sure you don't enjoy the things he gave you the ability to appreciate?? Nah can't be that. He gave us the ability to kill each other too and most of us gladly refrain from that, most of the time:) Seriously though I don't understand most of it. I am so enjoying all the ex 2x2's that are now showing their 1st year of putting up a Christmas tree. The lights and the joy it is bringing them. Something so beautiful and religion has taught them to deny themselves the beauty. The 2x2's in some areas of the world cannot have Christmas trees. It's not even universal, but it's so frowned upon in the places where it's taboo that those who want a tree have to buy a little one so that they can put it away when the workers visit. It makes no sense to me. So little about religion does though. Some years ago, a person had attended the Gospel missions and professed. (to invoke the 2*2 terminology)
Christmas Trees are the norm here.
A visiting US worker spoke at the convention that this person attended about the evils of the celebrating Christmas. He either hadn't done his homework, or he was sufficiently arrogant to think he could change our culture, or both. The person never attended another meeting.
Killjoys.
They don't want people enjoying the good things in life like culture, music, sport, drama, film, alcohol, entertainment etc. Better to have them in fear for their eternal salvation, and dependent on the church. Imagine putting the fear of going to hell in a child in the 10+ age group. This is what is known as Religious Trauma, and is very real.
The only one I see wrong in your last paragraph is alcohol if we drink it and get drunk. It can cause so many problems so I feel it's better to stay away from it as I've got an addictive nature. I try to keep away from things that I know I become addicted to. I'm not perfect and I have to fight myself but I also know myself and how far I can go. Why and how do they put the fear of going to hell into children? In what way do they do that? Thanks
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