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Post by luke2236 on Apr 28, 2023 17:57:59 GMT -5
Church corruption is a huge problem and depending on your views is a huge tool of Satan. I read a letter from 1989 about a male worker with seniority using his post to sexually harass (or worse) women workers even after repenting and saying he would never do it again years before. Obviously, very little changed between then and the mid 2000’s when workers went to prison and their violations couldn’t be hidden and the response was letters and convention sermons and action steps. Now we have the continuance of these CSA issues and I can’t help think about how long it took for justice to go after the Catholic Church. Then it caused me to think about what the similarities and differences were.
I’m aware morale failures happen often in Churches, but when illegal activity occurs there is generally a way for law enforcement to find out who is at least employed at the church and where they live.
Then I wondered if the CSA would have been higher or lower if the celibate preachers who believe they are in the only original way, were also preachers who stayed in church members homes and often slept in their children’s beds. So then, I thought about how we have a lot of data to show how justice can go after churches that have a history of repeat CSA, coverup, or lack of prevention measures and be held accountable. So this thread is to think about how the situations are similar and different.
Catholic Church had traceable money for lawyers to go after.
-2x2 way hides the money in a mafia like accounting system
Catholic Church impacted a larger amount of people and politics.
- 2x2s are barely known by anyone and are not raising any ATF flags like the Waco folks
Catholic Church has normal church records with employment status and residence address of members
-2x2 does not
I’m sure there are more but I’m out of time at the moment
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 28, 2023 22:27:53 GMT -5
I keep thinking the main difference is the hidden money when it fines for a civil lawsuit. The king history is documented coverup is amazingly similar but the small global size and hidden money probably prevents the government from realizing these crimes are made possible because of the entire setup with the leaders allowing SA and CSA to occur.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 28, 2023 22:41:23 GMT -5
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 28, 2023 23:02:41 GMT -5
Church corruption is a huge problem and depending on your views is a huge tool of Satan. I read a letter from 1989 about a male worker with seniority using his post to sexually harass (or worse) women workers even after repenting and saying he would never do it again years before. Obviously, very little changed between then and the mid 2000’s when workers went to prison and their violations couldn’t be hidden and the response was letters and convention sermons and action steps. Now we have the continuance of these CSA issues and I can’t help think about how long it took for justice to go after the Catholic Church. Then it caused me to think about what the similarities and differences were. I’m aware morale failures happen often in Churches, but when illegal activity occurs there is generally a way for law enforcement to find out who is at least employed at the church and where they live. Then I wondered if the CSA would have been higher or lower if the celibate preachers who believe they are in the only original way, were also preachers who stayed in church members homes and often slept in their children’s beds. So then, I thought about how we have a lot of data to show how justice can go after churches that have a history of repeat CSA, coverup, or lack of prevention measures and be held accountable. So this thread is to think about how the situations are similar and different. Catholic Church had traceable money for lawyers to go after. -2x2 way hides the money in a mafia like accounting system Catholic Church impacted a larger amount of people and politics. - 2x2s are barely known by anyone and are not raising any ATF flags like the Waco folks Catholic Church has normal church records with employment status and residence address of members -2x2 does not I’m sure there are more but I’m out of time at the moment Could you explain to me the financial structure that you have described as "mafia-like"? Or point me to wherever it has already been described? |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 28, 2023 23:37:04 GMT -5
I’ll paste what simpleton wrote in 2017. This is really detailed and the evidence is hard to trace and assumptions on amounts are just that assumptions, but it does bring up a lot. Also here is the link: professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedMany 2x2s and ex-2x2s focus on the doctrinal problems of 2x2ism. A few others focus on the abusive nature of the organizational structure. But even less actually focus on the business model - and yes it is a business. All churches are businesses. However, it's important to know that all normal churches are Non-Profit Businesses, they are not For-Profit Businesses. Ask yourself - is 2x2ism a non-profit? Is it registered as a non-profit? No it is not. All normal churches are registered as non-profits, because if they do not register as a non-profit then the IRS will tax them as a For-Profit business at 35%. 2x2ism is not registered as much of anything, except when registration can be used to petition for immigration visas as a 'legitimate' religious organization or attempt to get military service waivers for its ministers. Does 2x2ism have financial records that it shares with its members? No it shares nothing. It's 100% secret. It's financial assets are all hidden. No non-profit behaves like this. Non-profits must file financial statements annually which are available for all the world to see, such as this. The 2x2 business model is an incredible system. It is a For-Profit global business scheme that is comprised of a series of independent business units called 'fields'. Here is how it works. Each business unit consists of a group of 'development officers' who's entire function is to solicit money from innocent people. But instead of calling them 'development officers' as most churches would, the 2x2s call them 'Workers'. Does it surprise you that these Workers are not trained in seminaries or any other religious training? They don't need to be, they are not in the business of spreading the Gospel, they are in the business of taking money. They are Working alright, working at taking money. The innocent people they take money from are called Friends. Isn't that a nice word instead of what these types of people are normally called. Have you ever thought about the 2x2 propaganda that they "don't take collections"? It's true they do not pass a collection plate in the meetings. But have you ever asked yourself why? It's pretty obvious when you understand how the whole thing works. It's the classic con job. The 'Workers' insist there are no money collections taken in their 'meetings' in order to gain the trust of their 'marks'. That's the first step in the con, gaining the confidence of the 'mark'. Then the 'Workers' explain about their great 'sacrifice' to be homeless and penniless for you the sinner. You feel like you have been given an undeserving gift, a gift that you must reciprocate with some small token to show your gratefulness. It's no surprise that then privately the issue of the 'needs of the kingdom' are brought up, and money is handed over from the mark AKA Friend AKA sucker to the 'Worker'. The Workers can keep a small amount of their 'take' for themselves, but most of it is sent up the ladder to the regional overseers. What is unique about the 2x2 business model is how small the commission the Workers can keep for themselves - next to nothing. This is because in other organizations the 'development officers' have to pay for their own housing and living expenses out of their earnings. But in the 2x2 model, not only are the 'Friends' being fleeced for money, but the 'Friends' are also charged with covering all the living expenses of the 'Workers' by providing them housing, transportation, food, etc. This is brilliant! 2x2ism has figured out a way to offload the majority of its expenses directly onto the suckers it is fleecing! Amazing! How much money are we talking about? Annually, more than $100 million per year. There is accumulated wealth of well over $1 Billion. Here are some numbers (thanks to blandie ): Lets assume that there are 160k friends and that the average given to the workers is a low $100 per year - yeah some don't give any but some give at least that each week and even more come convention time - so that's $16m total income. We'll be generous and assume there are still 2500 workers of whom 500 are on rest at any given time and say they're each given $500 annually from the common pot and we'll round that up to $1.5m in direct expenses. Say another outlay of $10k for each of 450 convention - several cost more to put on even with donations of food etc. but many more would require much much less than that - and that's another $4.5m in direct expense. We'll also be generous and say that each pair of workers holds one gospel meeting per month in a rented hall that costs $500 - some don't pay at all but some do - so that's another $500k in direct expenses. Food and transportation and clothing and the occasional trip home and medical and lodging are all provided and even those younger workers whose older companions don't share the cash inflow sometimes have to get by with just that but lets say theres another $2000 per worker in discretionary spending per worker per year so that comes to another $5m. So lets round that up to $11.5m per year expended and leaving $4.5m cash left over each year that should go back to the overseer/trustee accounts each year. I think its way more than that, but lets assume its just that. + 16,000,000 income - 1,500,000 worker start-off cash - 4,500,000 convention expense - 500,000 gospel meeting expense - 5,000,000 worker discretionary spending = $4,500,000 Excess profit from operations goes to Overseers annually And the excess annual income is even before adding income from the messier areas of inheritances - whether cash bequests or entire estates left to the workers individually or directed to the overseers to be placed in trusts - and funds donated by newly recruited workers. Both have been going on since the early days and tho that's income that comes in regularly I think its harder to estimate averages. Some don't leave anything to the workers and some just leave a small amount but some have left their entire estates - I know of one family where the children were left with nothing other than a few mementos and the overseer got all the properties of the wealthy parents. Some workers turn over all to the overseer and some give away to relations or others they know. Individual workers get cash and other gifts apart from their 'ministry' functions too - even some junior workers I knew got some surprising generous gifts. Let's see what sort of inheritance/bequethments 2x2ism gets: 160,000 friends is about 80,000 2x2 households, 150K average household net worth, 2x2s give 1/3 of net worth to Overseers. $50k x 80k households = $4 Billion in assets will be Willed to Overseers!!! Assuming that most of those households are retired folks equally distributed between the age of 65 and 90, then each year for the next 25 years as they folks die, Overseers will take in $4 B / 25 = $160 million per year!!! Here is an actual legal clause crafted by the California Overseer for 2x2s to put in their Wills. It does not state the assets are to go to a Trust. It says the assets go directly to the Overseer. Imagine that! And it doesn't even name the Overseer, so anyone could show up at the reading of the Will and say they are the Overseer. The document even mentions that your lawyer will find this clause too vague! Imagine that!! Of course it's too vague, you are basically saying, "If someone shows up at the reading of my Will and says they are the 'Overseer', then give them all my assets". All of the money that is sent up the ladder to the Overseers of each region (business unit). The Overseers then pass that money on to a few select 2x2 members who manage it. These select members pretend to be just ordinary 2x2 folk, but in fact they are not. They are the financial controllers of the entire 2x2 enterprise. They are 2x2 Royalty. If you have been in 2x2ism for a while and have gotten to know a lot of people in it, you will have gotten to learn who the 2x2 Royalty are. They use the monies that 2x2ism pumps into their accounts for their own investments and businesses. All of this money was obtained illegally. It is not a registered non-profit. It is not tax exempt. It does not file taxes. It is all hidden monies. In other words, it is money-laundering. The money is not held in bank accounts, because that would be far too obvious for the IRS to pick up on. Instead the money is run through the business enterprises of these 'royalty' 2x2s. Used to buy real estate, etc. There are a number of 2x2 Royalty who despite having no visible means of income, have in fact extremely out of proportion spending habits. WAY out of proportion - extravagant lifestyles, lots of 'toys', lots of assets, etc. That's a clear sign of illegal activity. Why do we know that it is an illegal enterprise? Because of how the money is handled. Let's follow a typical money transaction. The Friend gives cash to the Worker. If the Friend gives a check, the Worker will endorse the check to another Friend in exchange for cash - the reason is to make sure all the money never enters the formal banking system where it can be tracked. The Worker keeps all this cash on hand until a personal interaction with an Overseer (convention, special mtg, etc), where it is handed over to the Overseer. The Overseer then hands this cash off to a Royalty 2x2 member. The Royalty 2x2 cannot deposit this money in a bank account of any kind. Even if a legal Trust was set up, the money could not be deposited in it since the money would then set off alarms with banking authorities and tax authorities. They would have to pay tax on it -perhaps even 35% tax. If 2x2ism was a legit organization, they would put this money in an account, and then they would have to pay tax on it. They would quickly realize that they don't like losing 35% in tax, so they would incorporate as a legal non-profit so that they would not have to pay tax. But in becoming a non-profit, they would then insist on all donations to them be made by check to the legal name of the non-profit so that they could comply with federal tax and anti-money-laundering laws, and 2x2 members would be given tax receipts for their donations. However, 2x2ism is not registered as a non-profit nor is it giving out tax receipts, so that means that the money cannot be deposited into a bank account by the Overseer or by a 2x2 Royalty member. Where is the money being stored? The 2x2 Royalty member uses the money in their own personal businesses and investments (real estate, etc). This way the dirty 2x2 money is mixed with legitimate business money and disguised so that the tax authorities are not tipped off. This is classic money-laundering. After the money has passed through the legitimate business, it is then able to be deposited in bank accounts. You might be thinking, "It's all just gift money from the Friends, and the Friends paid taxes on that money, so why would the Workers have to pay taxes on it". You yourself probably have received gifts of money and never declared it to the IRS. The trouble is the size of the gift. Imagine if you were depositing cash in your bank account of $10,000 or more every month (Overseers take in a lot more money than that). Now imagine that you are a drug dealer and you are making those same deposits. The bank doesn't know if you are a drug dealer, it just knows that you are making large cash deposits, and that you have no other real income in that account from a traceable source. The bank then will red flag your account and report you to the authorities for potential money-laundering. You see, it's not that you received a money gift, it's that you have frequent large money gifts from an untraceable source, which sets off the bank's alarms. What I am trying to get at is that it's not just a tax issue, but it is also a banking anti-money-laundering issue. Imagine what the FBI would think when they investigate someone for potential money-laundering, and the person says "I'm an pastor in a non-registered church with no name and no organization. This money I receive is all just gifts from people who like me. Yes, it's all cash gifts, but that's their choice." The FBI will start to laugh and have you in handcuffs so fast that your head will spin. And it is because of this that the Overseers cannot allow all that 2x2 money to go into the banking system. And because the money is not going into the banking system, then for certain they are not paying tax, and for certain they are laundering it with the Royalty 2x2s. You might be thinking that the 2x2 ministers themselves file tax returns just like everyone else. No they do not. Overseers specifically instruct 2x2 ministers to NOT file a tax return. Why would they do that? Even if you don't have much income, it's a a good idea to file a tax return in order to create a paper trail for the IRS, and perhaps to qualify for any unearned income tax credit. But no, they are told not to file. The reason is that filing would create a way for Federal law enforcement to track them. What are they going to put on the tax form as to where all the money they got came from? They don't have a legal employer. How are they going to declare all that housing, food, and transportation benefit they receive? They are free-lance contractors for an illegitimate organization - exactly the same as how a mafia runs. In summary, follow the money flow. Only criminal enterprises would go to such extreme methods to avoid registering as a non-profit. Think about all those sizable bequethments from dead people - just how exactly is that money getting into the accounts of an overseer? Simple. The bequethment is a check made out to a local 2x2 member, a regular inheritance type of deal. That local 2x2 member then gives the cash to the overseer - the money is now outside the banking system - and it goes to the 2x2 Royalty member for money-laundering. An Overseer and some 2x2 Royalty have already been criminally charged in Australia for money-laundering, see here. A key difference between 2x2ism and other cults is that most other cults (Scientology included) are actually registered as non-profits, which means that they have to spend all that money they take in. That's why most other cults have huge campuses, visible real estate assets, publishing companies, etc. They need to do something with the money. 2x2ism, because it is not a non-profit, can sit on all that cash and is not forced to spend it on visible hard assets. And since 2x2ism is not a non-profit, then it should be paying tax on all that income - but it is not, instead it is money-laundering all that income into the personal businesses of a few Royalty 2x2 families. The fact that 2x2ism has hundreds of millions of dollars socked away, and never spends a cent on doing real charity work, and yet keeps taking money from its 2x2 members at every chance while pretending that 2x2ism is penniless organization, tells you that 2x2ism is most certainly a money oriented machine that cares only about enriching the Royalty 2x2s at the top of the pyramid. The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. Do you remember that Alberta 1995 fiasco with 2x2 Overseers setting up a Corporation in AB? What tends to get overlooked is that they set up a for-profit Corporation, not a non-profit. Think about that for a minute. Why would they do that? Why would they willingly set up something that would force them to pay income tax? The reason is that a corporation has shareholders, people who it can pay out its earnings to. A non-profit cannot pay out to shareholders. Notice on the AB incorporation papers who the shareholders are - Overseers. They were looking for a legal way to enrich themselves without having to use the money-laundering method. Perhaps the cause of the entire Alberta scandal was that the Overseers wanted to keep the assets (mineral rights I think) for themselves instead of handing it off to the 2x2 Royalty. Don't you find it interesting that the incorporation papers were made public - by whom? How did they even know to look for them? It's a needle in a haystack situation, so how did this information slip out? Obviously it was purposefully leaked. And what sort of person would know about it and then decide to leak it? Someone who stood to lose a lot of money - a 2x2 Royalty person. From looking at Alberta Worker Lists on the TellingtheTruth site we notice something very interesting. The two 2x2 ministers seemingly most on the frontlines of carrying out the Great Purge of 1999 were inevitably sent off to other countries as punishment for how bad they handled it. Jim Knipe went to Argentina, and Gwen Fipke is 'overseas'. That's a very important thing to understand. Knipe and Fipke were just carrying out orders from higher up, and so when it all spun out of control they were cast aside as fallguys. This tells you something very interesting about what the true priorities are at 2x2 Inc. We all know what happens when a 2x2 minister commits a felony crime such as child sexual assault - they get sent to another field, but still in the same country, perhaps just a few hundred miles away - where they can still solicit donations. That means that they can still interact with their parents, siblings, and friends pretty much as before. Notice what happened to Knipe and Fipke, they were sent thousands of miles away to countries they don't know the language. That shows you what sort of 'infractions' by a 2x2 minister are worse than others. Clearly causing a mass exodus of money-donating 2x2 members matters a lot more than committing a felony crime. Speaking of western Canada, do you remember the scandal of an overseer who attempted to transport $30,000 across the Canada/US border in a briefcase in the 1990s? This is a very good example of a situation where the money laundering almost got caught. First off, why didn't the overseer just wire transfer or use a check with the money instead of trying to transport such a large amount of cash? Remember that he would have had to covert it from Canadian Dollars to US Dollars at a bank before hand in small batches in order to not tip off the authorities. And by converting it like he did, the cost of conversion (the FX rate) would have cost him quite a bit. So economically speaking, transporting the cash was a stupid idea. But because he was money laundering, there was no other option. And the reason we know it was money laundering is because of what happened when he tried to cross the border. At the border the officer told him to declare any amount of cash he had greater than $10,000. The overseer refused to declare the money. It is not illegal to transport large amounts of cash across borders, but it is illegal to not declare it. Declaring it is just a matter of filling out a small form for the Border Officer - putting your name, passport ##, address, etc on it. Aha! But the Overseer refused to do this simple thing. Why? Obviously if he did fill out the form, then Federal law enforcement would have evidence of his transporting cash. So instead, the Overseer turned his car around and returned to Canada, where he gave the money to some 2x2 members instead to take care of, while he then attempted a second crossing of the border without the cash. That's the smoking gun right there. There is absolutely no reason to behave like this unless you are trying to hide something. Have you ever wondered why 2x2 'ministers' almost never go door to door like JWs proselytizing? Wouldn't you expect itinerant ministers to be knocking on doors six days a week? Isn't that what Mormon missionaries do? So why is it that 2x2 'ministers' make almost no effort to find new recruits. Because they are not looking to save souls, they are looking to maximize the amount of money they can take from the existing suckers in their field. In a normal church business model it is widely known that the time lag from the day a new recruit walks into the building out of curiosity to the day that person starts giving money as a pledging member is about 3 years at a minimum. It takes a lot of work to convert a curious bystander to regular attender to pledging member. Now imagine if you as a pastor were having your 'field' changed every year or two years. It would make no economic sense to seek out new members, since your successor would be the beneficiary instead of you. Conversely, you would focus your efforts on trying to get as much money out of your existing flock of suckers as you can. Sound familiar? Then you may ask, "why don't 2x2 'ministers' stay in the same field for 5 years or more?" The reason is that the Overseers cannot allow any 2x2 'ministers' to be in a location where there is significant economic resources (suckers) for an extended period because too long of person-to-person contact with the 'Friends' will result in a personal-economic relationship that can be used by the 2x2 'minister' to build a powerbase of their own which might inevitably challenge the Overseer's control. Not too many people think about it, but what does 2x2ism do with its old 'Workers' AKA development officers when they can no longer solicit donations? These are people who gave their entire lives for a system and when they finally 'retire' they don't have any savings to pay for their retirement. And how do they pay for their medical care in the USA? You'd think that all those donations given by 2x2 members to 2x2ism would be used to help these old expired ministers. But no it's not. Instead a scam is used. Since they have never actually worked, they do not qualify for Medicare - free health care for old people. They also do not qualify for Social Security - old age pension. So how do they get by? Simple, by fraud. It works like this: At some point before they hit 65, they are 'employed' by a Royalty 2x2 family business. They don't actually work there, but they are put on the payroll. This way they can accumulate the much needed 10 years of work 'credits' with the Social Security Administration in order to qualify for pensions and old age free healthcare. It's a fraud. If they don't use that fraud, then they try another - the Medicaid fraud. Medicaid is free healthcare for the poor and indigent in the US, 2x2 ministers claim that they are poor (despite all this money the Overseers have) to qualify. Some enterprising 2x2 members then set up nursing/care homes for these old 2x2 ministers, taking in the US governments's cash into their business. It's also a great place to launder some of the off-the-books 2x2 money. Have you ever wondered why 2x2 ministers travel to poor countries? Why are they sending 2x2 ministers to poor countries? There aren't enough 'suckers' in those countries to make it even break even. It's widely known that all of the 2x2 ministers in poor countries are only able to be there because of donations from 2x2 members in rich countries going directly to them. The 2x2 ministers in these poor countries don't live in the homes of the 'friends'. Why is that? Strange, no? In fact they live in quite nice apartments paid for by donations from their 2x2 member acquaintances back home. Very strange isn't it. Once you start to understand that 2x2 is a business, it all comes into focus. These 2x2 ministers in poor countries are used for a number of 'special assignments': 1) They serve as a 'support team' for pregnant 2x2 female ministers from rich countries who need a discreet way to get rid of the baby. (have evidence) 2) Offshore banking fiduciaries. Offshore banks do not like to have accounts with US citizens. So non-US citizens are used as 'fronts' to open the accounts for Royalty 2x2s. (educated guess) 3) R&R locations for high profile 2x2 ministers (mostly male) who want to 'let their hair down' without any prying eyes. Notice how many are in Thailand. (have evidence) 4) Organ trafficking. Poor countries are widely known as sources of kidneys and other organs for customers in rich countries. 2x2 ministers facilitate this transaction. (educated guess) It's important to notice that there are very few male 2x2 ministers in the poor countries - which is exactly the opposite of what one would think (sending lily-white female virgins to dangerous places). There is a reason for this - the male 2x2 ministers are needed back home in the rich countries to manage the 'Friends' AKA donors, especially the old ones regarding bequethments. Would you send your 18 year old naive daughter to a poor dangerous country where she doesn't speak the language, doesn't know much of anything about the world, etc.? No you would not. But it happens all the time to these young female 2x2 ministers. Why? It's obvious. They are the most expendable of the 2x2 ministers. They have the least amount of power. If they ever try to blow the whistle on what goes on, they are easily marginalized and shunned because they are female (in a male dominated cult) and they have very few connections back home to believe them. And they are also the most gullible, easy to give a nonsense rational for something offside and they will believe it. And just how do these 2x2 ministers even go to third world countries? Don't most of these countries require a visa or don't many of them explicitly prohibit religious proselytizing? Well, the 2x2s have found a way around that - another scam. They apply for student visa's to 'study the language', and then once in the country start going after converts in an effort to get them to bequeath their property to 2x2 'ministers'. Of course, not to local 2x2 'minister', but to the big shots from US/Canada/Aus/etc. Do you remember the Vietnam scandal? That's exactly what it as all about. Have you ever wondered why there were/are such different rules of conduct between different regions of 2x2ism? No TVs, no divorce, no alcohol, etc in some areas while completely permitted in others. We have heard that this is due to the decisions of the different regional Overseers. But ask yourself, doesn't it seem strange that these Overseers would meet together and not come up with a common consensus of what was condoned 2x2 behavior? Having such very extreme differences in condoned behavior across regions seems like a very bad idea don't you think? People do talk after all, especially when the 2x2 ministers are preaching that 'One Way, Always the Same, Never Changing, etc'. The reason that there was no consensus between the Overseers about these issues is that the Overseers are not like bishops of a normal church, but instead the Overseers are the CEOs of their own totally independent organization for each region. They rarely ever meet with one another. In fact, it's widely known that in the US, the Eastern Overseer and Western Overseer hated each other - no kidding, they were not brothers-in-Christ, they are competitors. They each want to take over the other Overseer's regions. It's exactly like different mafia families fighting over territory. It's all for money. In the past 20 years or so, there has been an incredible consolidation of power by one particular Overseer in western North America - now with control over CA, OR, WA, AZ, NV, BC, AB, SK, MB. This is the most lucrative region of the entire 2x2 global enterprise. Have you ever wondered why do 2x2s not agree with the Trinity? Why do they take such a hardline on this. It seems strange....until you understand what accepting the Trinity would mean. Trinity means that 'God the Son' (not the Son of God, a demi-god) was made flesh and was crucified. That means that Jesus (God the Son) was incapable of sin, and that he was sacrificed for our sins (sins we commit simply because we are imperfect humans). That means that the idea of trying to 'live a life patterned off of Jesus' is simply not possible. By removing the 'Jesus as a pattern' idea, that would end the need for 'daily dying' and suffering for the 'Truth'. However, it is this 'suffering in The Truth to be like Jesus' that keeps 2x2 members in their bondage to the 2x2 Overseers and system of spiritual abuse - to be cash cows for the 2x2 Royalty. Pull the pin on Trinity, and the whole doctrinal underpinnings for the suffering ends. You might be thinking, "are all Workers in on this big illegal scam operation?" No. Almost all of the 'Workers' are truly just that - workers - people diligently running around doing their job of soliciting money and thinking they are doing 'God's Work". It's only the people at the very top - the Overseers and some carefully chosen heirs to the Overseers - who know what is really going on. And it is only they who interact with the true Big Bosses - the 2x2 Royalty. The Overseers are sort of like the CEO, COO, CFOs of the organization - they run the day to day operations, they get some plum perks, etc. But it is the 2x2 Royalty who are the owners, the shareholders, the ultimate beneficiaries of this illegal operation. Given that 2x2ism is a large illegal scam operation, it seems pretty clear that all of the 'Workers' can be criminally charged for their part in it. I wonder how many of them realize that while they were innocently duped into their roles, that they could do prison time for their activities in soliciting and defrauding people. There is a statute of limitations I believe, so many of the folks who stopped being 'Workers' years ago will probably not be charged. A young person who joins 2x2ism's 'ministry' (and it's not a ministry, it's a con artist scam) must sell all of their belongings and give the proceeds to 2x2ism's big bosses. The new recruit has no home, no income, no vehicle, no savings, etc - they are completely at the whim of their 'bosses'. It's a life only a hair's breadth away from being homeless and starving. This creates some VERY perverse behavior from the 2x2 ministers. They must have 100% obedience to the 'big boss'. What a tyrannical system - worse than even any Totalitarian political system ever devised. To try to leave the 2x2 'ministry' on your own, you must have people outside who will help you - give you a place to stay, help you with money, etc. Imagine being sent to a foreign country where your support network is even less. Another interesting aspect of this job is the 'scandal' leverage that is used by the 'big bosses' against the 2x2 ministers. It is estimated at least 50% of 2x2 ministers have been involved in a sexual liaison with a 2x2 member (adult or child). Not to mention the numerous financial scandals. The entire edifice is a nest of dirty little secrets that are 'leaked' whenever the 'big bosses' want to punish someone. These implicit threats of exposing the scandals is what keeps so many 2x2 ministers from speaking up - even after they have managed to escape from 2x2ism. And because of the success of this mode of control, all sorts of situations and conditions are set up where the 2x2 ministers will be entrapped in a scandalous activity - precisely to achieve leverage over them. Why do you think known homosexual older male 2x2 ministers are frequently paired, not with other homosexuals, but with eager-to-please young male 2x2 ministers? So that inevitably a sexual event occurs which then can be used as leverage against both of them. What do you think the chances are that 2x2ism is unique among cults? That 2x2ism is actually a 100% benevolent organization in all regards? That 2x2ism has not mutated from its original charismatic founder's vision. That 2x2ism has not cut a few corners here and there, which started as exceptions to the rule, but soon became the rule. They have lied to you about the origins of 2x2ism (Irvine). They have lied to you about the purges and schisms of 2x2ism (Irvine, Cooney, Walker, etc). They have lied to you about the existence of registration of 2x2ism a legal entity (AUS, AB, Sweden, etc). They have lied to you about ex-2x2s. They have lied to you about the numerous sexual assaults their ministers committed against the children of members. They have lied to you about the existence of all the money they have collected. They have lied to you about basic concepts of the Gospel (Grace, Trinity, etc). They have lied to you about nearly everything that matters. And you still want to defend them? That's called Denial. The chances that 2x2ism is unique among cults is next to zero. Especially when so much of the important parts of 2x2ism are completely secret and hidden from its members. 2x2ism has a long history of lies, deception, abuse, outright denial of basic scripture, etc. Even in the face of mountains of evidence, the leadership will lie to pretend that black is white. Take all of those known factors together, and then tell me what do you think the probability is that despite being completely secret that all the financial aspects of 2x2ism are completely above board and benevolent. Are you thinking, "What can I possibly do about this?" Well, you actually don't have to leave 2x2ism (going to Sunday morning meeting), you can just stop giving money. Stop giving the 2x2 ministers ANY money. The Overseers will have to start paying the 2x2 ministers. Stop giving money for conventions, let the Overseers pay - they have the money afterall. Make it known that you will not be giving any money from your estate in your Will to 2x2ism. Make sure none of your relatives do so either. Soon the fact that you are not giving money will be noticed and you will be spoken to. Take that opportunity to explain that you will start giving when 2x2ism is setup as a legal non-profit and publishes its financial records for all to see. I mean, even those 'false churches' do that for pity's sake. 2x2ministry.org/workers/cult_2x2_operations.php professing.proboards.com/thread/23679/financial-accountability-transparency?page=7professing.proboards.com/post/727924/thread |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2023 0:35:01 GMT -5
Hmmmm...
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Post by verna on Apr 29, 2023 9:45:51 GMT -5
This expose seems a little far fetched. Am I naive?
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 29, 2023 9:54:49 GMT -5
This expose seems a little far fetched. Am I naive? Certainly a lot to digest. That wall of text is pretty heavy on extrapolation from very few investigatable/verifiable points of information. I'm no financial expert and I've been around long enough to know that people who claim to be often aren't..... But, outside of the initial assumptions (which are obviously arbitrary) it is not the craziest thing I've ever heard. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 10:37:01 GMT -5
This expose seems a little far fetched. Am I naive? It seems that way to me but that doesn’t mean the format of accounting isn’t pretty accurate. Also the format limits civil enforcement of CSA activity and inaction by elders and overseers. Also explains the resulting tax fraud Also does open up the idea of money laundering probably not knowingly Then makes you wonder, if they never pay taxes on earned money, is it thievery to get Medicare and Medicaid? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2023 10:40:13 GMT -5
This expose seems a little far fetched. Am I naive? It seems that way to me but that doesn’t mean the format of accounting isn’t pretty accurate. Also the format limits civil enforcement of CSA activity and inaction by elders and overseers. Also explains the resulting tax fraud Also does open up the idea of money laundering probably not knowingly Then makes you wonder, if they never pay taxes on earned money, is it thievery to get Medicare and Medicaid? Most work before they are workers now, so no it wouldn't be thievery... |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 10:52:30 GMT -5
It seems that way to me but that doesn’t mean the format of accounting isn’t pretty accurate. Also the format limits civil enforcement of CSA activity and inaction by elders and overseers. Also explains the resulting tax fraud Also does open up the idea of money laundering probably not knowingly Then makes you wonder, if they never pay taxes on earned money, is it thievery to get Medicare and Medicaid? Most work before they are workers now, so no it wouldn't be thievery... It would just depend on the total amount of unpaid taxes they paid. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2023 11:04:08 GMT -5
Most work before they are workers now, so no it wouldn't be thievery... It would just depend on the total amount of unpaid taxes they paid. The Gov't wouldn't know that they just base/calculate it on last quarters worked with an actual paycheck... There are many American's who've paid nothing that get SS or SSI or SSD or Welfare... Then there are cases like my Aunt that Just died. There is no record of her ever working and paying taxes. But she was employed by 2 companies back in the 40's/50's and she paid the tax. It appears now the employers just pocketed the money and screwed her over for her future need when she hit 65. They granted her something paltry like 400 a month. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 11:22:01 GMT -5
It would just depend on the total amount of unpaid taxes they paid. The Gov't wouldn't know that they just base/calculate it on last quarters worked with an actual paycheck... There are many American's who've paid nothing that get SS or SSI or SSD or Welfare... Then there are cases like my Aunt that Just died. There is no record of her ever working and paying taxes. But she was employed by 2 companies back in the 40's/50's and she paid the tax. It appears now the employers just pocketed the money and screwed her over for her future need when she hit 65. They granted her something paltry like 400 a month. That’s a shame that she paid her taxes and got very little, while other people don’t pay taxes when they get paid and still get benefits. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 11:23:04 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedThis section really points out a difference. “ The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. ”
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Post by verna on Apr 29, 2023 12:51:33 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedThis section really points out a difference. “ The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. ” Am I having deja vu or do you keep posting this on multiple threads? |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 13:10:25 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedThis section really points out a difference. “ The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. ” Am I having deja vu or do you keep posting this on multiple threads? Is that your response to the suggestion of the 2x2 way switching from an unlawful system of accountability to a lawful system of accountability to protect SA and CSA victims? Or is your question rhetorical? |
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Post by verna on Apr 29, 2023 13:18:40 GMT -5
Am I having deja vu or do you keep posting this on multiple threads? Is that your response to the suggestion of the 2x2 way switching from an unlawful system of accountability to a lawful system of accountability to protect SA and CSA victims? Or is your question rhetorical? It is my response to you reposting this on multiple threads. I find it strange. Are you trying to make sure everyone sees it or what is your point. Btw I am not in support of the 2x2 system. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 13:23:09 GMT -5
Is that your response to the suggestion of the 2x2 way switching from an unlawful system of accountability to a lawful system of accountability to protect SA and CSA victims? Or is your question rhetorical? It is my response to you reposting this on multiple threads. I find it strange. Are you trying to make sure everyone sees it or what is your point. Btw I am not in support of the 2x2 system. . It’s a relevant point that I am suddenly passionate about and it’s real vent to every thread that I post it in, if you don’t find it relevant then explain why. |
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Post by verna on Apr 29, 2023 13:26:00 GMT -5
It is my response to you reposting this on multiple threads. I find it strange. Are you trying to make sure everyone sees it or what is your point. Btw I am not in support of the 2x2 system. . It’s a relevant point that I am suddenly passionate about and it’s real vent to every thread that I post it in, if you don’t find it relevant then explain why. I definitely find it relevant but I start to discount it when I see it in every thread. Maybe it’s from having things pushed down my throat as a 2x2. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 13:30:16 GMT -5
. It’s a relevant point that I am suddenly passionate about and it’s real vent to every thread that I post it in, if you don’t find it relevant then explain why. I definitely find it relevant but I start to discount it when I see it in every thread. Maybe it’s from having things pushed down my throat as a 2x2. Maybe it feels that way because every topic is the same and nothing is going to really change. |
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2023 17:19:09 GMT -5
I’ll paste what simpleton wrote in 2017. This is really detailed and the evidence is hard to trace and assumptions on amounts are just that assumptions, but it does bring up a lot. Also here is the link: professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedMany 2x2s and ex-2x2s focus on the doctrinal problems of 2x2ism. A few others focus on the abusive nature of the organizational structure. But even less actually focus on the business model - and yes it is a business. All churches are businesses. However, it's important to know that all normal churches are Non-Profit Businesses, they are not For-Profit Businesses. Ask yourself - is 2x2ism a non-profit? Is it registered as a non-profit? No it is not. All normal churches are registered as non-profits, because if they do not register as a non-profit then the IRS will tax them as a For-Profit business at 35%. 2x2ism is not registered as much of anything, except when registration can be used to petition for immigration visas as a 'legitimate' religious organization or attempt to get military service waivers for its ministers. Does 2x2ism have financial records that it shares with its members? No it shares nothing. It's 100% secret. It's financial assets are all hidden. No non-profit behaves like this. Non-profits must file financial statements annually which are available for all the world to see, such as this. The 2x2 business model is an incredible system. It is a For-Profit global business scheme that is comprised of a series of independent business units called 'fields'. Here is how it works. Each business unit consists of a group of 'development officers' who's entire function is to solicit money from innocent people. But instead of calling them 'development officers' as most churches would, the 2x2s call them 'Workers'. Does it surprise you that these Workers are not trained in seminaries or any other religious training? They don't need to be, they are not in the business of spreading the Gospel, they are in the business of taking money. They are Working alright, working at taking money. The innocent people they take money from are called Friends. Isn't that a nice word instead of what these types of people are normally called. Have you ever thought about the 2x2 propaganda that they "don't take collections"? It's true they do not pass a collection plate in the meetings. But have you ever asked yourself why? It's pretty obvious when you understand how the whole thing works. It's the classic con job. The 'Workers' insist there are no money collections taken in their 'meetings' in order to gain the trust of their 'marks'. That's the first step in the con, gaining the confidence of the 'mark'. Then the 'Workers' explain about their great 'sacrifice' to be homeless and penniless for you the sinner. You feel like you have been given an undeserving gift, a gift that you must reciprocate with some small token to show your gratefulness. It's no surprise that then privately the issue of the 'needs of the kingdom' are brought up, and money is handed over from the mark AKA Friend AKA sucker to the 'Worker'. The Workers can keep a small amount of their 'take' for themselves, but most of it is sent up the ladder to the regional overseers. What is unique about the 2x2 business model is how small the commission the Workers can keep for themselves - next to nothing. This is because in other organizations the 'development officers' have to pay for their own housing and living expenses out of their earnings. But in the 2x2 model, not only are the 'Friends' being fleeced for money, but the 'Friends' are also charged with covering all the living expenses of the 'Workers' by providing them housing, transportation, food, etc. This is brilliant! 2x2ism has figured out a way to offload the majority of its expenses directly onto the suckers it is fleecing! Amazing! How much money are we talking about? Annually, more than $100 million per year. There is accumulated wealth of well over $1 Billion. Here are some numbers (thanks to blandie ): Lets assume that there are 160k friends and that the average given to the workers is a low $100 per year - yeah some don't give any but some give at least that each week and even more come convention time - so that's $16m total income. We'll be generous and assume there are still 2500 workers of whom 500 are on rest at any given time and say they're each given $500 annually from the common pot and we'll round that up to $1.5m in direct expenses. Say another outlay of $10k for each of 450 convention - several cost more to put on even with donations of food etc. but many more would require much much less than that - and that's another $4.5m in direct expense. We'll also be generous and say that each pair of workers holds one gospel meeting per month in a rented hall that costs $500 - some don't pay at all but some do - so that's another $500k in direct expenses. Food and transportation and clothing and the occasional trip home and medical and lodging are all provided and even those younger workers whose older companions don't share the cash inflow sometimes have to get by with just that but lets say theres another $2000 per worker in discretionary spending per worker per year so that comes to another $5m. So lets round that up to $11.5m per year expended and leaving $4.5m cash left over each year that should go back to the overseer/trustee accounts each year. I think its way more than that, but lets assume its just that. + 16,000,000 income - 1,500,000 worker start-off cash - 4,500,000 convention expense - 500,000 gospel meeting expense - 5,000,000 worker discretionary spending = $4,500,000 Excess profit from operations goes to Overseers annually And the excess annual income is even before adding income from the messier areas of inheritances - whether cash bequests or entire estates left to the workers individually or directed to the overseers to be placed in trusts - and funds donated by newly recruited workers. Both have been going on since the early days and tho that's income that comes in regularly I think its harder to estimate averages. Some don't leave anything to the workers and some just leave a small amount but some have left their entire estates - I know of one family where the children were left with nothing other than a few mementos and the overseer got all the properties of the wealthy parents. Some workers turn over all to the overseer and some give away to relations or others they know. Individual workers get cash and other gifts apart from their 'ministry' functions too - even some junior workers I knew got some surprising generous gifts. Let's see what sort of inheritance/bequethments 2x2ism gets: 160,000 friends is about 80,000 2x2 households, 150K average household net worth, 2x2s give 1/3 of net worth to Overseers. $50k x 80k households = $4 Billion in assets will be Willed to Overseers!!! Assuming that most of those households are retired folks equally distributed between the age of 65 and 90, then each year for the next 25 years as they folks die, Overseers will take in $4 B / 25 = $160 million per year!!! Here is an actual legal clause crafted by the California Overseer for 2x2s to put in their Wills. It does not state the assets are to go to a Trust. It says the assets go directly to the Overseer. Imagine that! And it doesn't even name the Overseer, so anyone could show up at the reading of the Will and say they are the Overseer. The document even mentions that your lawyer will find this clause too vague! Imagine that!! Of course it's too vague, you are basically saying, "If someone shows up at the reading of my Will and says they are the 'Overseer', then give them all my assets". All of the money that is sent up the ladder to the Overseers of each region (business unit). The Overseers then pass that money on to a few select 2x2 members who manage it. These select members pretend to be just ordinary 2x2 folk, but in fact they are not. They are the financial controllers of the entire 2x2 enterprise. They are 2x2 Royalty. If you have been in 2x2ism for a while and have gotten to know a lot of people in it, you will have gotten to learn who the 2x2 Royalty are. They use the monies that 2x2ism pumps into their accounts for their own investments and businesses. All of this money was obtained illegally. It is not a registered non-profit. It is not tax exempt. It does not file taxes. It is all hidden monies. In other words, it is money-laundering. The money is not held in bank accounts, because that would be far too obvious for the IRS to pick up on. Instead the money is run through the business enterprises of these 'royalty' 2x2s. Used to buy real estate, etc. There are a number of 2x2 Royalty who despite having no visible means of income, have in fact extremely out of proportion spending habits. WAY out of proportion - extravagant lifestyles, lots of 'toys', lots of assets, etc. That's a clear sign of illegal activity. Why do we know that it is an illegal enterprise? Because of how the money is handled. Let's follow a typical money transaction. The Friend gives cash to the Worker. If the Friend gives a check, the Worker will endorse the check to another Friend in exchange for cash - the reason is to make sure all the money never enters the formal banking system where it can be tracked. The Worker keeps all this cash on hand until a personal interaction with an Overseer (convention, special mtg, etc), where it is handed over to the Overseer. The Overseer then hands this cash off to a Royalty 2x2 member. The Royalty 2x2 cannot deposit this money in a bank account of any kind. Even if a legal Trust was set up, the money could not be deposited in it since the money would then set off alarms with banking authorities and tax authorities. They would have to pay tax on it -perhaps even 35% tax. If 2x2ism was a legit organization, they would put this money in an account, and then they would have to pay tax on it. They would quickly realize that they don't like losing 35% in tax, so they would incorporate as a legal non-profit so that they would not have to pay tax. But in becoming a non-profit, they would then insist on all donations to them be made by check to the legal name of the non-profit so that they could comply with federal tax and anti-money-laundering laws, and 2x2 members would be given tax receipts for their donations. However, 2x2ism is not registered as a non-profit nor is it giving out tax receipts, so that means that the money cannot be deposited into a bank account by the Overseer or by a 2x2 Royalty member. Where is the money being stored? The 2x2 Royalty member uses the money in their own personal businesses and investments (real estate, etc). This way the dirty 2x2 money is mixed with legitimate business money and disguised so that the tax authorities are not tipped off. This is classic money-laundering. After the money has passed through the legitimate business, it is then able to be deposited in bank accounts. You might be thinking, "It's all just gift money from the Friends, and the Friends paid taxes on that money, so why would the Workers have to pay taxes on it". You yourself probably have received gifts of money and never declared it to the IRS. The trouble is the size of the gift. Imagine if you were depositing cash in your bank account of $10,000 or more every month (Overseers take in a lot more money than that). Now imagine that you are a drug dealer and you are making those same deposits. The bank doesn't know if you are a drug dealer, it just knows that you are making large cash deposits, and that you have no other real income in that account from a traceable source. The bank then will red flag your account and report you to the authorities for potential money-laundering. You see, it's not that you received a money gift, it's that you have frequent large money gifts from an untraceable source, which sets off the bank's alarms. What I am trying to get at is that it's not just a tax issue, but it is also a banking anti-money-laundering issue. Imagine what the FBI would think when they investigate someone for potential money-laundering, and the person says "I'm an pastor in a non-registered church with no name and no organization. This money I receive is all just gifts from people who like me. Yes, it's all cash gifts, but that's their choice." The FBI will start to laugh and have you in handcuffs so fast that your head will spin. And it is because of this that the Overseers cannot allow all that 2x2 money to go into the banking system. And because the money is not going into the banking system, then for certain they are not paying tax, and for certain they are laundering it with the Royalty 2x2s. You might be thinking that the 2x2 ministers themselves file tax returns just like everyone else. No they do not. Overseers specifically instruct 2x2 ministers to NOT file a tax return. Why would they do that? Even if you don't have much income, it's a a good idea to file a tax return in order to create a paper trail for the IRS, and perhaps to qualify for any unearned income tax credit. But no, they are told not to file. The reason is that filing would create a way for Federal law enforcement to track them. What are they going to put on the tax form as to where all the money they got came from? They don't have a legal employer. How are they going to declare all that housing, food, and transportation benefit they receive? They are free-lance contractors for an illegitimate organization - exactly the same as how a mafia runs. In summary, follow the money flow. Only criminal enterprises would go to such extreme methods to avoid registering as a non-profit. Think about all those sizable bequethments from dead people - just how exactly is that money getting into the accounts of an overseer? Simple. The bequethment is a check made out to a local 2x2 member, a regular inheritance type of deal. That local 2x2 member then gives the cash to the overseer - the money is now outside the banking system - and it goes to the 2x2 Royalty member for money-laundering. An Overseer and some 2x2 Royalty have already been criminally charged in Australia for money-laundering, see here. A key difference between 2x2ism and other cults is that most other cults (Scientology included) are actually registered as non-profits, which means that they have to spend all that money they take in. That's why most other cults have huge campuses, visible real estate assets, publishing companies, etc. They need to do something with the money. 2x2ism, because it is not a non-profit, can sit on all that cash and is not forced to spend it on visible hard assets. And since 2x2ism is not a non-profit, then it should be paying tax on all that income - but it is not, instead it is money-laundering all that income into the personal businesses of a few Royalty 2x2 families. The fact that 2x2ism has hundreds of millions of dollars socked away, and never spends a cent on doing real charity work, and yet keeps taking money from its 2x2 members at every chance while pretending that 2x2ism is penniless organization, tells you that 2x2ism is most certainly a money oriented machine that cares only about enriching the Royalty 2x2s at the top of the pyramid. The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. Do you remember that Alberta 1995 fiasco with 2x2 Overseers setting up a Corporation in AB? What tends to get overlooked is that they set up a for-profit Corporation, not a non-profit. Think about that for a minute. Why would they do that? Why would they willingly set up something that would force them to pay income tax? The reason is that a corporation has shareholders, people who it can pay out its earnings to. A non-profit cannot pay out to shareholders. Notice on the AB incorporation papers who the shareholders are - Overseers. They were looking for a legal way to enrich themselves without having to use the money-laundering method. Perhaps the cause of the entire Alberta scandal was that the Overseers wanted to keep the assets (mineral rights I think) for themselves instead of handing it off to the 2x2 Royalty. Don't you find it interesting that the incorporation papers were made public - by whom? How did they even know to look for them? It's a needle in a haystack situation, so how did this information slip out? Obviously it was purposefully leaked. And what sort of person would know about it and then decide to leak it? Someone who stood to lose a lot of money - a 2x2 Royalty person. From looking at Alberta Worker Lists on the TellingtheTruth site we notice something very interesting. The two 2x2 ministers seemingly most on the frontlines of carrying out the Great Purge of 1999 were inevitably sent off to other countries as punishment for how bad they handled it. Jim Knipe went to Argentina, and Gwen Fipke is 'overseas'. That's a very important thing to understand. Knipe and Fipke were just carrying out orders from higher up, and so when it all spun out of control they were cast aside as fallguys. This tells you something very interesting about what the true priorities are at 2x2 Inc. We all know what happens when a 2x2 minister commits a felony crime such as child sexual assault - they get sent to another field, but still in the same country, perhaps just a few hundred miles away - where they can still solicit donations. That means that they can still interact with their parents, siblings, and friends pretty much as before. Notice what happened to Knipe and Fipke, they were sent thousands of miles away to countries they don't know the language. That shows you what sort of 'infractions' by a 2x2 minister are worse than others. Clearly causing a mass exodus of money-donating 2x2 members matters a lot more than committing a felony crime. Speaking of western Canada, do you remember the scandal of an overseer who attempted to transport $30,000 across the Canada/US border in a briefcase in the 1990s? This is a very good example of a situation where the money laundering almost got caught. First off, why didn't the overseer just wire transfer or use a check with the money instead of trying to transport such a large amount of cash? Remember that he would have had to covert it from Canadian Dollars to US Dollars at a bank before hand in small batches in order to not tip off the authorities. And by converting it like he did, the cost of conversion (the FX rate) would have cost him quite a bit. So economically speaking, transporting the cash was a stupid idea. But because he was money laundering, there was no other option. And the reason we know it was money laundering is because of what happened when he tried to cross the border. At the border the officer told him to declare any amount of cash he had greater than $10,000. The overseer refused to declare the money. It is not illegal to transport large amounts of cash across borders, but it is illegal to not declare it. Declaring it is just a matter of filling out a small form for the Border Officer - putting your name, passport ##, address, etc on it. Aha! But the Overseer refused to do this simple thing. Why? Obviously if he did fill out the form, then Federal law enforcement would have evidence of his transporting cash. So instead, the Overseer turned his car around and returned to Canada, where he gave the money to some 2x2 members instead to take care of, while he then attempted a second crossing of the border without the cash. That's the smoking gun right there. There is absolutely no reason to behave like this unless you are trying to hide something. Have you ever wondered why 2x2 'ministers' almost never go door to door like JWs proselytizing? Wouldn't you expect itinerant ministers to be knocking on doors six days a week? Isn't that what Mormon missionaries do? So why is it that 2x2 'ministers' make almost no effort to find new recruits. Because they are not looking to save souls, they are looking to maximize the amount of money they can take from the existing suckers in their field. In a normal church business model it is widely known that the time lag from the day a new recruit walks into the building out of curiosity to the day that person starts giving money as a pledging member is about 3 years at a minimum. It takes a lot of work to convert a curious bystander to regular attender to pledging member. Now imagine if you as a pastor were having your 'field' changed every year or two years. It would make no economic sense to seek out new members, since your successor would be the beneficiary instead of you. Conversely, you would focus your efforts on trying to get as much money out of your existing flock of suckers as you can. Sound familiar? Then you may ask, "why don't 2x2 'ministers' stay in the same field for 5 years or more?" The reason is that the Overseers cannot allow any 2x2 'ministers' to be in a location where there is significant economic resources (suckers) for an extended period because too long of person-to-person contact with the 'Friends' will result in a personal-economic relationship that can be used by the 2x2 'minister' to build a powerbase of their own which might inevitably challenge the Overseer's control. Not too many people think about it, but what does 2x2ism do with its old 'Workers' AKA development officers when they can no longer solicit donations? These are people who gave their entire lives for a system and when they finally 'retire' they don't have any savings to pay for their retirement. And how do they pay for their medical care in the USA? You'd think that all those donations given by 2x2 members to 2x2ism would be used to help these old expired ministers. But no it's not. Instead a scam is used. Since they have never actually worked, they do not qualify for Medicare - free health care for old people. They also do not qualify for Social Security - old age pension. So how do they get by? Simple, by fraud. It works like this: At some point before they hit 65, they are 'employed' by a Royalty 2x2 family business. They don't actually work there, but they are put on the payroll. This way they can accumulate the much needed 10 years of work 'credits' with the Social Security Administration in order to qualify for pensions and old age free healthcare. It's a fraud. If they don't use that fraud, then they try another - the Medicaid fraud. Medicaid is free healthcare for the poor and indigent in the US, 2x2 ministers claim that they are poor (despite all this money the Overseers have) to qualify. Some enterprising 2x2 members then set up nursing/care homes for these old 2x2 ministers, taking in the US governments's cash into their business. It's also a great place to launder some of the off-the-books 2x2 money. Have you ever wondered why 2x2 ministers travel to poor countries? Why are they sending 2x2 ministers to poor countries? There aren't enough 'suckers' in those countries to make it even break even. It's widely known that all of the 2x2 ministers in poor countries are only able to be there because of donations from 2x2 members in rich countries going directly to them. The 2x2 ministers in these poor countries don't live in the homes of the 'friends'. Why is that? Strange, no? In fact they live in quite nice apartments paid for by donations from their 2x2 member acquaintances back home. Very strange isn't it. Once you start to understand that 2x2 is a business, it all comes into focus. These 2x2 ministers in poor countries are used for a number of 'special assignments': 1) They serve as a 'support team' for pregnant 2x2 female ministers from rich countries who need a discreet way to get rid of the baby. (have evidence) 2) Offshore banking fiduciaries. Offshore banks do not like to have accounts with US citizens. So non-US citizens are used as 'fronts' to open the accounts for Royalty 2x2s. (educated guess) 3) R&R locations for high profile 2x2 ministers (mostly male) who want to 'let their hair down' without any prying eyes. Notice how many are in Thailand. (have evidence) 4) Organ trafficking. Poor countries are widely known as sources of kidneys and other organs for customers in rich countries. 2x2 ministers facilitate this transaction. (educated guess) It's important to notice that there are very few male 2x2 ministers in the poor countries - which is exactly the opposite of what one would think (sending lily-white female virgins to dangerous places). There is a reason for this - the male 2x2 ministers are needed back home in the rich countries to manage the 'Friends' AKA donors, especially the old ones regarding bequethments. Would you send your 18 year old naive daughter to a poor dangerous country where she doesn't speak the language, doesn't know much of anything about the world, etc.? No you would not. But it happens all the time to these young female 2x2 ministers. Why? It's obvious. They are the most expendable of the 2x2 ministers. They have the least amount of power. If they ever try to blow the whistle on what goes on, they are easily marginalized and shunned because they are female (in a male dominated cult) and they have very few connections back home to believe them. And they are also the most gullible, easy to give a nonsense rational for something offside and they will believe it. And just how do these 2x2 ministers even go to third world countries? Don't most of these countries require a visa or don't many of them explicitly prohibit religious proselytizing? Well, the 2x2s have found a way around that - another scam. They apply for student visa's to 'study the language', and then once in the country start going after converts in an effort to get them to bequeath their property to 2x2 'ministers'. Of course, not to local 2x2 'minister', but to the big shots from US/Canada/Aus/etc. Do you remember the Vietnam scandal? That's exactly what it as all about. Have you ever wondered why there were/are such different rules of conduct between different regions of 2x2ism? No TVs, no divorce, no alcohol, etc in some areas while completely permitted in others. We have heard that this is due to the decisions of the different regional Overseers. But ask yourself, doesn't it seem strange that these Overseers would meet together and not come up with a common consensus of what was condoned 2x2 behavior? Having such very extreme differences in condoned behavior across regions seems like a very bad idea don't you think? People do talk after all, especially when the 2x2 ministers are preaching that 'One Way, Always the Same, Never Changing, etc'. The reason that there was no consensus between the Overseers about these issues is that the Overseers are not like bishops of a normal church, but instead the Overseers are the CEOs of their own totally independent organization for each region. They rarely ever meet with one another. In fact, it's widely known that in the US, the Eastern Overseer and Western Overseer hated each other - no kidding, they were not brothers-in-Christ, they are competitors. They each want to take over the other Overseer's regions. It's exactly like different mafia families fighting over territory. It's all for money. In the past 20 years or so, there has been an incredible consolidation of power by one particular Overseer in western North America - now with control over CA, OR, WA, AZ, NV, BC, AB, SK, MB. This is the most lucrative region of the entire 2x2 global enterprise. Have you ever wondered why do 2x2s not agree with the Trinity? Why do they take such a hardline on this. It seems strange....until you understand what accepting the Trinity would mean. Trinity means that 'God the Son' (not the Son of God, a demi-god) was made flesh and was crucified. That means that Jesus (God the Son) was incapable of sin, and that he was sacrificed for our sins (sins we commit simply because we are imperfect humans). That means that the idea of trying to 'live a life patterned off of Jesus' is simply not possible. By removing the 'Jesus as a pattern' idea, that would end the need for 'daily dying' and suffering for the 'Truth'. However, it is this 'suffering in The Truth to be like Jesus' that keeps 2x2 members in their bondage to the 2x2 Overseers and system of spiritual abuse - to be cash cows for the 2x2 Royalty. Pull the pin on Trinity, and the whole doctrinal underpinnings for the suffering ends. You might be thinking, "are all Workers in on this big illegal scam operation?" No. Almost all of the 'Workers' are truly just that - workers - people diligently running around doing their job of soliciting money and thinking they are doing 'God's Work". It's only the people at the very top - the Overseers and some carefully chosen heirs to the Overseers - who know what is really going on. And it is only they who interact with the true Big Bosses - the 2x2 Royalty. The Overseers are sort of like the CEO, COO, CFOs of the organization - they run the day to day operations, they get some plum perks, etc. But it is the 2x2 Royalty who are the owners, the shareholders, the ultimate beneficiaries of this illegal operation. Given that 2x2ism is a large illegal scam operation, it seems pretty clear that all of the 'Workers' can be criminally charged for their part in it. I wonder how many of them realize that while they were innocently duped into their roles, that they could do prison time for their activities in soliciting and defrauding people. There is a statute of limitations I believe, so many of the folks who stopped being 'Workers' years ago will probably not be charged. A young person who joins 2x2ism's 'ministry' (and it's not a ministry, it's a con artist scam) must sell all of their belongings and give the proceeds to 2x2ism's big bosses. The new recruit has no home, no income, no vehicle, no savings, etc - they are completely at the whim of their 'bosses'. It's a life only a hair's breadth away from being homeless and starving. This creates some VERY perverse behavior from the 2x2 ministers. They must have 100% obedience to the 'big boss'. What a tyrannical system - worse than even any Totalitarian political system ever devised. To try to leave the 2x2 'ministry' on your own, you must have people outside who will help you - give you a place to stay, help you with money, etc. Imagine being sent to a foreign country where your support network is even less. Another interesting aspect of this job is the 'scandal' leverage that is used by the 'big bosses' against the 2x2 ministers. It is estimated at least 50% of 2x2 ministers have been involved in a sexual liaison with a 2x2 member (adult or child). Not to mention the numerous financial scandals. The entire edifice is a nest of dirty little secrets that are 'leaked' whenever the 'big bosses' want to punish someone. These implicit threats of exposing the scandals is what keeps so many 2x2 ministers from speaking up - even after they have managed to escape from 2x2ism. And because of the success of this mode of control, all sorts of situations and conditions are set up where the 2x2 ministers will be entrapped in a scandalous activity - precisely to achieve leverage over them. Why do you think known homosexual older male 2x2 ministers are frequently paired, not with other homosexuals, but with eager-to-please young male 2x2 ministers? So that inevitably a sexual event occurs which then can be used as leverage against both of them. What do you think the chances are that 2x2ism is unique among cults? That 2x2ism is actually a 100% benevolent organization in all regards? That 2x2ism has not mutated from its original charismatic founder's vision. That 2x2ism has not cut a few corners here and there, which started as exceptions to the rule, but soon became the rule. They have lied to you about the origins of 2x2ism (Irvine). They have lied to you about the purges and schisms of 2x2ism (Irvine, Cooney, Walker, etc). They have lied to you about the existence of registration of 2x2ism a legal entity (AUS, AB, Sweden, etc). They have lied to you about ex-2x2s. They have lied to you about the numerous sexual assaults their ministers committed against the children of members. They have lied to you about the existence of all the money they have collected. They have lied to you about basic concepts of the Gospel (Grace, Trinity, etc). They have lied to you about nearly everything that matters. And you still want to defend them? That's called Denial. The chances that 2x2ism is unique among cults is next to zero. Especially when so much of the important parts of 2x2ism are completely secret and hidden from its members. 2x2ism has a long history of lies, deception, abuse, outright denial of basic scripture, etc. Even in the face of mountains of evidence, the leadership will lie to pretend that black is white. Take all of those known factors together, and then tell me what do you think the probability is that despite being completely secret that all the financial aspects of 2x2ism are completely above board and benevolent. Are you thinking, "What can I possibly do about this?" Well, you actually don't have to leave 2x2ism (going to Sunday morning meeting), you can just stop giving money. Stop giving the 2x2 ministers ANY money. The Overseers will have to start paying the 2x2 ministers. Stop giving money for conventions, let the Overseers pay - they have the money afterall. Make it known that you will not be giving any money from your estate in your Will to 2x2ism. Make sure none of your relatives do so either. Soon the fact that you are not giving money will be noticed and you will be spoken to. Take that opportunity to explain that you will start giving when 2x2ism is setup as a legal non-profit and publishes its financial records for all to see. I mean, even those 'false churches' do that for pity's sake. 2x2ministry.org/workers/cult_2x2_operations.php professing.proboards.com/thread/23679/financial-accountability-transparency?page=7professing.proboards.com/post/727924/threadSimpleton wrote that? Well I had questions before. Now I really question it's authenticity and the degree of 'fact' it offers. Don't get me wrong, I don't dismiss it outright, but now I am very wary and would caution others to really look at it carefully. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 18:14:01 GMT -5
I’ll paste what simpleton wrote in 2017. This is really detailed and the evidence is hard to trace and assumptions on amounts are just that assumptions, but it does bring up a lot. Also here is the link: professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedMany 2x2s and ex-2x2s focus on the doctrinal problems of 2x2ism. A few others focus on the abusive nature of the organizational structure. But even less actually focus on the business model - and yes it is a business. All churches are businesses. However, it's important to know that all normal churches are Non-Profit Businesses, they are not For-Profit Businesses. Ask yourself - is 2x2ism a non-profit? Is it registered as a non-profit? No it is not. All normal churches are registered as non-profits, because if they do not register as a non-profit then the IRS will tax them as a For-Profit business at 35%. 2x2ism is not registered as much of anything, except when registration can be used to petition for immigration visas as a 'legitimate' religious organization or attempt to get military service waivers for its ministers. Does 2x2ism have financial records that it shares with its members? No it shares nothing. It's 100% secret. It's financial assets are all hidden. No non-profit behaves like this. Non-profits must file financial statements annually which are available for all the world to see, such as this. The 2x2 business model is an incredible system. It is a For-Profit global business scheme that is comprised of a series of independent business units called 'fields'. Here is how it works. Each business unit consists of a group of 'development officers' who's entire function is to solicit money from innocent people. But instead of calling them 'development officers' as most churches would, the 2x2s call them 'Workers'. Does it surprise you that these Workers are not trained in seminaries or any other religious training? They don't need to be, they are not in the business of spreading the Gospel, they are in the business of taking money. They are Working alright, working at taking money. The innocent people they take money from are called Friends. Isn't that a nice word instead of what these types of people are normally called. Have you ever thought about the 2x2 propaganda that they "don't take collections"? It's true they do not pass a collection plate in the meetings. But have you ever asked yourself why? It's pretty obvious when you understand how the whole thing works. It's the classic con job. The 'Workers' insist there are no money collections taken in their 'meetings' in order to gain the trust of their 'marks'. That's the first step in the con, gaining the confidence of the 'mark'. Then the 'Workers' explain about their great 'sacrifice' to be homeless and penniless for you the sinner. You feel like you have been given an undeserving gift, a gift that you must reciprocate with some small token to show your gratefulness. It's no surprise that then privately the issue of the 'needs of the kingdom' are brought up, and money is handed over from the mark AKA Friend AKA sucker to the 'Worker'. The Workers can keep a small amount of their 'take' for themselves, but most of it is sent up the ladder to the regional overseers. What is unique about the 2x2 business model is how small the commission the Workers can keep for themselves - next to nothing. This is because in other organizations the 'development officers' have to pay for their own housing and living expenses out of their earnings. But in the 2x2 model, not only are the 'Friends' being fleeced for money, but the 'Friends' are also charged with covering all the living expenses of the 'Workers' by providing them housing, transportation, food, etc. This is brilliant! 2x2ism has figured out a way to offload the majority of its expenses directly onto the suckers it is fleecing! Amazing! How much money are we talking about? Annually, more than $100 million per year. There is accumulated wealth of well over $1 Billion. Here are some numbers (thanks to blandie ): Lets assume that there are 160k friends and that the average given to the workers is a low $100 per year - yeah some don't give any but some give at least that each week and even more come convention time - so that's $16m total income. We'll be generous and assume there are still 2500 workers of whom 500 are on rest at any given time and say they're each given $500 annually from the common pot and we'll round that up to $1.5m in direct expenses. Say another outlay of $10k for each of 450 convention - several cost more to put on even with donations of food etc. but many more would require much much less than that - and that's another $4.5m in direct expense. We'll also be generous and say that each pair of workers holds one gospel meeting per month in a rented hall that costs $500 - some don't pay at all but some do - so that's another $500k in direct expenses. Food and transportation and clothing and the occasional trip home and medical and lodging are all provided and even those younger workers whose older companions don't share the cash inflow sometimes have to get by with just that but lets say theres another $2000 per worker in discretionary spending per worker per year so that comes to another $5m. So lets round that up to $11.5m per year expended and leaving $4.5m cash left over each year that should go back to the overseer/trustee accounts each year. I think its way more than that, but lets assume its just that. + 16,000,000 income - 1,500,000 worker start-off cash - 4,500,000 convention expense - 500,000 gospel meeting expense - 5,000,000 worker discretionary spending = $4,500,000 Excess profit from operations goes to Overseers annually And the excess annual income is even before adding income from the messier areas of inheritances - whether cash bequests or entire estates left to the workers individually or directed to the overseers to be placed in trusts - and funds donated by newly recruited workers. Both have been going on since the early days and tho that's income that comes in regularly I think its harder to estimate averages. Some don't leave anything to the workers and some just leave a small amount but some have left their entire estates - I know of one family where the children were left with nothing other than a few mementos and the overseer got all the properties of the wealthy parents. Some workers turn over all to the overseer and some give away to relations or others they know. Individual workers get cash and other gifts apart from their 'ministry' functions too - even some junior workers I knew got some surprising generous gifts. Let's see what sort of inheritance/bequethments 2x2ism gets: 160,000 friends is about 80,000 2x2 households, 150K average household net worth, 2x2s give 1/3 of net worth to Overseers. $50k x 80k households = $4 Billion in assets will be Willed to Overseers!!! Assuming that most of those households are retired folks equally distributed between the age of 65 and 90, then each year for the next 25 years as they folks die, Overseers will take in $4 B / 25 = $160 million per year!!! Here is an actual legal clause crafted by the California Overseer for 2x2s to put in their Wills. It does not state the assets are to go to a Trust. It says the assets go directly to the Overseer. Imagine that! And it doesn't even name the Overseer, so anyone could show up at the reading of the Will and say they are the Overseer. The document even mentions that your lawyer will find this clause too vague! Imagine that!! Of course it's too vague, you are basically saying, "If someone shows up at the reading of my Will and says they are the 'Overseer', then give them all my assets". All of the money that is sent up the ladder to the Overseers of each region (business unit). The Overseers then pass that money on to a few select 2x2 members who manage it. These select members pretend to be just ordinary 2x2 folk, but in fact they are not. They are the financial controllers of the entire 2x2 enterprise. They are 2x2 Royalty. If you have been in 2x2ism for a while and have gotten to know a lot of people in it, you will have gotten to learn who the 2x2 Royalty are. They use the monies that 2x2ism pumps into their accounts for their own investments and businesses. All of this money was obtained illegally. It is not a registered non-profit. It is not tax exempt. It does not file taxes. It is all hidden monies. In other words, it is money-laundering. The money is not held in bank accounts, because that would be far too obvious for the IRS to pick up on. Instead the money is run through the business enterprises of these 'royalty' 2x2s. Used to buy real estate, etc. There are a number of 2x2 Royalty who despite having no visible means of income, have in fact extremely out of proportion spending habits. WAY out of proportion - extravagant lifestyles, lots of 'toys', lots of assets, etc. That's a clear sign of illegal activity. Why do we know that it is an illegal enterprise? Because of how the money is handled. Let's follow a typical money transaction. The Friend gives cash to the Worker. If the Friend gives a check, the Worker will endorse the check to another Friend in exchange for cash - the reason is to make sure all the money never enters the formal banking system where it can be tracked. The Worker keeps all this cash on hand until a personal interaction with an Overseer (convention, special mtg, etc), where it is handed over to the Overseer. The Overseer then hands this cash off to a Royalty 2x2 member. The Royalty 2x2 cannot deposit this money in a bank account of any kind. Even if a legal Trust was set up, the money could not be deposited in it since the money would then set off alarms with banking authorities and tax authorities. They would have to pay tax on it -perhaps even 35% tax. If 2x2ism was a legit organization, they would put this money in an account, and then they would have to pay tax on it. They would quickly realize that they don't like losing 35% in tax, so they would incorporate as a legal non-profit so that they would not have to pay tax. But in becoming a non-profit, they would then insist on all donations to them be made by check to the legal name of the non-profit so that they could comply with federal tax and anti-money-laundering laws, and 2x2 members would be given tax receipts for their donations. However, 2x2ism is not registered as a non-profit nor is it giving out tax receipts, so that means that the money cannot be deposited into a bank account by the Overseer or by a 2x2 Royalty member. Where is the money being stored? The 2x2 Royalty member uses the money in their own personal businesses and investments (real estate, etc). This way the dirty 2x2 money is mixed with legitimate business money and disguised so that the tax authorities are not tipped off. This is classic money-laundering. After the money has passed through the legitimate business, it is then able to be deposited in bank accounts. You might be thinking, "It's all just gift money from the Friends, and the Friends paid taxes on that money, so why would the Workers have to pay taxes on it". You yourself probably have received gifts of money and never declared it to the IRS. The trouble is the size of the gift. Imagine if you were depositing cash in your bank account of $10,000 or more every month (Overseers take in a lot more money than that). Now imagine that you are a drug dealer and you are making those same deposits. The bank doesn't know if you are a drug dealer, it just knows that you are making large cash deposits, and that you have no other real income in that account from a traceable source. The bank then will red flag your account and report you to the authorities for potential money-laundering. You see, it's not that you received a money gift, it's that you have frequent large money gifts from an untraceable source, which sets off the bank's alarms. What I am trying to get at is that it's not just a tax issue, but it is also a banking anti-money-laundering issue. Imagine what the FBI would think when they investigate someone for potential money-laundering, and the person says "I'm an pastor in a non-registered church with no name and no organization. This money I receive is all just gifts from people who like me. Yes, it's all cash gifts, but that's their choice." The FBI will start to laugh and have you in handcuffs so fast that your head will spin. And it is because of this that the Overseers cannot allow all that 2x2 money to go into the banking system. And because the money is not going into the banking system, then for certain they are not paying tax, and for certain they are laundering it with the Royalty 2x2s. You might be thinking that the 2x2 ministers themselves file tax returns just like everyone else. No they do not. Overseers specifically instruct 2x2 ministers to NOT file a tax return. Why would they do that? Even if you don't have much income, it's a a good idea to file a tax return in order to create a paper trail for the IRS, and perhaps to qualify for any unearned income tax credit. But no, they are told not to file. The reason is that filing would create a way for Federal law enforcement to track them. What are they going to put on the tax form as to where all the money they got came from? They don't have a legal employer. How are they going to declare all that housing, food, and transportation benefit they receive? They are free-lance contractors for an illegitimate organization - exactly the same as how a mafia runs. In summary, follow the money flow. Only criminal enterprises would go to such extreme methods to avoid registering as a non-profit. Think about all those sizable bequethments from dead people - just how exactly is that money getting into the accounts of an overseer? Simple. The bequethment is a check made out to a local 2x2 member, a regular inheritance type of deal. That local 2x2 member then gives the cash to the overseer - the money is now outside the banking system - and it goes to the 2x2 Royalty member for money-laundering. An Overseer and some 2x2 Royalty have already been criminally charged in Australia for money-laundering, see here. A key difference between 2x2ism and other cults is that most other cults (Scientology included) are actually registered as non-profits, which means that they have to spend all that money they take in. That's why most other cults have huge campuses, visible real estate assets, publishing companies, etc. They need to do something with the money. 2x2ism, because it is not a non-profit, can sit on all that cash and is not forced to spend it on visible hard assets. And since 2x2ism is not a non-profit, then it should be paying tax on all that income - but it is not, instead it is money-laundering all that income into the personal businesses of a few Royalty 2x2 families. The fact that 2x2ism has hundreds of millions of dollars socked away, and never spends a cent on doing real charity work, and yet keeps taking money from its 2x2 members at every chance while pretending that 2x2ism is penniless organization, tells you that 2x2ism is most certainly a money oriented machine that cares only about enriching the Royalty 2x2s at the top of the pyramid. The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. Do you remember that Alberta 1995 fiasco with 2x2 Overseers setting up a Corporation in AB? What tends to get overlooked is that they set up a for-profit Corporation, not a non-profit. Think about that for a minute. Why would they do that? Why would they willingly set up something that would force them to pay income tax? The reason is that a corporation has shareholders, people who it can pay out its earnings to. A non-profit cannot pay out to shareholders. Notice on the AB incorporation papers who the shareholders are - Overseers. They were looking for a legal way to enrich themselves without having to use the money-laundering method. Perhaps the cause of the entire Alberta scandal was that the Overseers wanted to keep the assets (mineral rights I think) for themselves instead of handing it off to the 2x2 Royalty. Don't you find it interesting that the incorporation papers were made public - by whom? How did they even know to look for them? It's a needle in a haystack situation, so how did this information slip out? Obviously it was purposefully leaked. And what sort of person would know about it and then decide to leak it? Someone who stood to lose a lot of money - a 2x2 Royalty person. From looking at Alberta Worker Lists on the TellingtheTruth site we notice something very interesting. The two 2x2 ministers seemingly most on the frontlines of carrying out the Great Purge of 1999 were inevitably sent off to other countries as punishment for how bad they handled it. Jim Knipe went to Argentina, and Gwen Fipke is 'overseas'. That's a very important thing to understand. Knipe and Fipke were just carrying out orders from higher up, and so when it all spun out of control they were cast aside as fallguys. This tells you something very interesting about what the true priorities are at 2x2 Inc. We all know what happens when a 2x2 minister commits a felony crime such as child sexual assault - they get sent to another field, but still in the same country, perhaps just a few hundred miles away - where they can still solicit donations. That means that they can still interact with their parents, siblings, and friends pretty much as before. Notice what happened to Knipe and Fipke, they were sent thousands of miles away to countries they don't know the language. That shows you what sort of 'infractions' by a 2x2 minister are worse than others. Clearly causing a mass exodus of money-donating 2x2 members matters a lot more than committing a felony crime. Speaking of western Canada, do you remember the scandal of an overseer who attempted to transport $30,000 across the Canada/US border in a briefcase in the 1990s? This is a very good example of a situation where the money laundering almost got caught. First off, why didn't the overseer just wire transfer or use a check with the money instead of trying to transport such a large amount of cash? Remember that he would have had to covert it from Canadian Dollars to US Dollars at a bank before hand in small batches in order to not tip off the authorities. And by converting it like he did, the cost of conversion (the FX rate) would have cost him quite a bit. So economically speaking, transporting the cash was a stupid idea. But because he was money laundering, there was no other option. And the reason we know it was money laundering is because of what happened when he tried to cross the border. At the border the officer told him to declare any amount of cash he had greater than $10,000. The overseer refused to declare the money. It is not illegal to transport large amounts of cash across borders, but it is illegal to not declare it. Declaring it is just a matter of filling out a small form for the Border Officer - putting your name, passport ##, address, etc on it. Aha! But the Overseer refused to do this simple thing. Why? Obviously if he did fill out the form, then Federal law enforcement would have evidence of his transporting cash. So instead, the Overseer turned his car around and returned to Canada, where he gave the money to some 2x2 members instead to take care of, while he then attempted a second crossing of the border without the cash. That's the smoking gun right there. There is absolutely no reason to behave like this unless you are trying to hide something. Have you ever wondered why 2x2 'ministers' almost never go door to door like JWs proselytizing? Wouldn't you expect itinerant ministers to be knocking on doors six days a week? Isn't that what Mormon missionaries do? So why is it that 2x2 'ministers' make almost no effort to find new recruits. Because they are not looking to save souls, they are looking to maximize the amount of money they can take from the existing suckers in their field. In a normal church business model it is widely known that the time lag from the day a new recruit walks into the building out of curiosity to the day that person starts giving money as a pledging member is about 3 years at a minimum. It takes a lot of work to convert a curious bystander to regular attender to pledging member. Now imagine if you as a pastor were having your 'field' changed every year or two years. It would make no economic sense to seek out new members, since your successor would be the beneficiary instead of you. Conversely, you would focus your efforts on trying to get as much money out of your existing flock of suckers as you can. Sound familiar? Then you may ask, "why don't 2x2 'ministers' stay in the same field for 5 years or more?" The reason is that the Overseers cannot allow any 2x2 'ministers' to be in a location where there is significant economic resources (suckers) for an extended period because too long of person-to-person contact with the 'Friends' will result in a personal-economic relationship that can be used by the 2x2 'minister' to build a powerbase of their own which might inevitably challenge the Overseer's control. Not too many people think about it, but what does 2x2ism do with its old 'Workers' AKA development officers when they can no longer solicit donations? These are people who gave their entire lives for a system and when they finally 'retire' they don't have any savings to pay for their retirement. And how do they pay for their medical care in the USA? You'd think that all those donations given by 2x2 members to 2x2ism would be used to help these old expired ministers. But no it's not. Instead a scam is used. Since they have never actually worked, they do not qualify for Medicare - free health care for old people. They also do not qualify for Social Security - old age pension. So how do they get by? Simple, by fraud. It works like this: At some point before they hit 65, they are 'employed' by a Royalty 2x2 family business. They don't actually work there, but they are put on the payroll. This way they can accumulate the much needed 10 years of work 'credits' with the Social Security Administration in order to qualify for pensions and old age free healthcare. It's a fraud. If they don't use that fraud, then they try another - the Medicaid fraud. Medicaid is free healthcare for the poor and indigent in the US, 2x2 ministers claim that they are poor (despite all this money the Overseers have) to qualify. Some enterprising 2x2 members then set up nursing/care homes for these old 2x2 ministers, taking in the US governments's cash into their business. It's also a great place to launder some of the off-the-books 2x2 money. Have you ever wondered why 2x2 ministers travel to poor countries? Why are they sending 2x2 ministers to poor countries? There aren't enough 'suckers' in those countries to make it even break even. It's widely known that all of the 2x2 ministers in poor countries are only able to be there because of donations from 2x2 members in rich countries going directly to them. The 2x2 ministers in these poor countries don't live in the homes of the 'friends'. Why is that? Strange, no? In fact they live in quite nice apartments paid for by donations from their 2x2 member acquaintances back home. Very strange isn't it. Once you start to understand that 2x2 is a business, it all comes into focus. These 2x2 ministers in poor countries are used for a number of 'special assignments': 1) They serve as a 'support team' for pregnant 2x2 female ministers from rich countries who need a discreet way to get rid of the baby. (have evidence) 2) Offshore banking fiduciaries. Offshore banks do not like to have accounts with US citizens. So non-US citizens are used as 'fronts' to open the accounts for Royalty 2x2s. (educated guess) 3) R&R locations for high profile 2x2 ministers (mostly male) who want to 'let their hair down' without any prying eyes. Notice how many are in Thailand. (have evidence) 4) Organ trafficking. Poor countries are widely known as sources of kidneys and other organs for customers in rich countries. 2x2 ministers facilitate this transaction. (educated guess) It's important to notice that there are very few male 2x2 ministers in the poor countries - which is exactly the opposite of what one would think (sending lily-white female virgins to dangerous places). There is a reason for this - the male 2x2 ministers are needed back home in the rich countries to manage the 'Friends' AKA donors, especially the old ones regarding bequethments. Would you send your 18 year old naive daughter to a poor dangerous country where she doesn't speak the language, doesn't know much of anything about the world, etc.? No you would not. But it happens all the time to these young female 2x2 ministers. Why? It's obvious. They are the most expendable of the 2x2 ministers. They have the least amount of power. If they ever try to blow the whistle on what goes on, they are easily marginalized and shunned because they are female (in a male dominated cult) and they have very few connections back home to believe them. And they are also the most gullible, easy to give a nonsense rational for something offside and they will believe it. And just how do these 2x2 ministers even go to third world countries? Don't most of these countries require a visa or don't many of them explicitly prohibit religious proselytizing? Well, the 2x2s have found a way around that - another scam. They apply for student visa's to 'study the language', and then once in the country start going after converts in an effort to get them to bequeath their property to 2x2 'ministers'. Of course, not to local 2x2 'minister', but to the big shots from US/Canada/Aus/etc. Do you remember the Vietnam scandal? That's exactly what it as all about. Have you ever wondered why there were/are such different rules of conduct between different regions of 2x2ism? No TVs, no divorce, no alcohol, etc in some areas while completely permitted in others. We have heard that this is due to the decisions of the different regional Overseers. But ask yourself, doesn't it seem strange that these Overseers would meet together and not come up with a common consensus of what was condoned 2x2 behavior? Having such very extreme differences in condoned behavior across regions seems like a very bad idea don't you think? People do talk after all, especially when the 2x2 ministers are preaching that 'One Way, Always the Same, Never Changing, etc'. The reason that there was no consensus between the Overseers about these issues is that the Overseers are not like bishops of a normal church, but instead the Overseers are the CEOs of their own totally independent organization for each region. They rarely ever meet with one another. In fact, it's widely known that in the US, the Eastern Overseer and Western Overseer hated each other - no kidding, they were not brothers-in-Christ, they are competitors. They each want to take over the other Overseer's regions. It's exactly like different mafia families fighting over territory. It's all for money. In the past 20 years or so, there has been an incredible consolidation of power by one particular Overseer in western North America - now with control over CA, OR, WA, AZ, NV, BC, AB, SK, MB. This is the most lucrative region of the entire 2x2 global enterprise. Have you ever wondered why do 2x2s not agree with the Trinity? Why do they take such a hardline on this. It seems strange....until you understand what accepting the Trinity would mean. Trinity means that 'God the Son' (not the Son of God, a demi-god) was made flesh and was crucified. That means that Jesus (God the Son) was incapable of sin, and that he was sacrificed for our sins (sins we commit simply because we are imperfect humans). That means that the idea of trying to 'live a life patterned off of Jesus' is simply not possible. By removing the 'Jesus as a pattern' idea, that would end the need for 'daily dying' and suffering for the 'Truth'. However, it is this 'suffering in The Truth to be like Jesus' that keeps 2x2 members in their bondage to the 2x2 Overseers and system of spiritual abuse - to be cash cows for the 2x2 Royalty. Pull the pin on Trinity, and the whole doctrinal underpinnings for the suffering ends. You might be thinking, "are all Workers in on this big illegal scam operation?" No. Almost all of the 'Workers' are truly just that - workers - people diligently running around doing their job of soliciting money and thinking they are doing 'God's Work". It's only the people at the very top - the Overseers and some carefully chosen heirs to the Overseers - who know what is really going on. And it is only they who interact with the true Big Bosses - the 2x2 Royalty. The Overseers are sort of like the CEO, COO, CFOs of the organization - they run the day to day operations, they get some plum perks, etc. But it is the 2x2 Royalty who are the owners, the shareholders, the ultimate beneficiaries of this illegal operation. Given that 2x2ism is a large illegal scam operation, it seems pretty clear that all of the 'Workers' can be criminally charged for their part in it. I wonder how many of them realize that while they were innocently duped into their roles, that they could do prison time for their activities in soliciting and defrauding people. There is a statute of limitations I believe, so many of the folks who stopped being 'Workers' years ago will probably not be charged. A young person who joins 2x2ism's 'ministry' (and it's not a ministry, it's a con artist scam) must sell all of their belongings and give the proceeds to 2x2ism's big bosses. The new recruit has no home, no income, no vehicle, no savings, etc - they are completely at the whim of their 'bosses'. It's a life only a hair's breadth away from being homeless and starving. This creates some VERY perverse behavior from the 2x2 ministers. They must have 100% obedience to the 'big boss'. What a tyrannical system - worse than even any Totalitarian political system ever devised. To try to leave the 2x2 'ministry' on your own, you must have people outside who will help you - give you a place to stay, help you with money, etc. Imagine being sent to a foreign country where your support network is even less. Another interesting aspect of this job is the 'scandal' leverage that is used by the 'big bosses' against the 2x2 ministers. It is estimated at least 50% of 2x2 ministers have been involved in a sexual liaison with a 2x2 member (adult or child). Not to mention the numerous financial scandals. The entire edifice is a nest of dirty little secrets that are 'leaked' whenever the 'big bosses' want to punish someone. These implicit threats of exposing the scandals is what keeps so many 2x2 ministers from speaking up - even after they have managed to escape from 2x2ism. And because of the success of this mode of control, all sorts of situations and conditions are set up where the 2x2 ministers will be entrapped in a scandalous activity - precisely to achieve leverage over them. Why do you think known homosexual older male 2x2 ministers are frequently paired, not with other homosexuals, but with eager-to-please young male 2x2 ministers? So that inevitably a sexual event occurs which then can be used as leverage against both of them. What do you think the chances are that 2x2ism is unique among cults? That 2x2ism is actually a 100% benevolent organization in all regards? That 2x2ism has not mutated from its original charismatic founder's vision. That 2x2ism has not cut a few corners here and there, which started as exceptions to the rule, but soon became the rule. They have lied to you about the origins of 2x2ism (Irvine). They have lied to you about the purges and schisms of 2x2ism (Irvine, Cooney, Walker, etc). They have lied to you about the existence of registration of 2x2ism a legal entity (AUS, AB, Sweden, etc). They have lied to you about ex-2x2s. They have lied to you about the numerous sexual assaults their ministers committed against the children of members. They have lied to you about the existence of all the money they have collected. They have lied to you about basic concepts of the Gospel (Grace, Trinity, etc). They have lied to you about nearly everything that matters. And you still want to defend them? That's called Denial. The chances that 2x2ism is unique among cults is next to zero. Especially when so much of the important parts of 2x2ism are completely secret and hidden from its members. 2x2ism has a long history of lies, deception, abuse, outright denial of basic scripture, etc. Even in the face of mountains of evidence, the leadership will lie to pretend that black is white. Take all of those known factors together, and then tell me what do you think the probability is that despite being completely secret that all the financial aspects of 2x2ism are completely above board and benevolent. Are you thinking, "What can I possibly do about this?" Well, you actually don't have to leave 2x2ism (going to Sunday morning meeting), you can just stop giving money. Stop giving the 2x2 ministers ANY money. The Overseers will have to start paying the 2x2 ministers. Stop giving money for conventions, let the Overseers pay - they have the money afterall. Make it known that you will not be giving any money from your estate in your Will to 2x2ism. Make sure none of your relatives do so either. Soon the fact that you are not giving money will be noticed and you will be spoken to. Take that opportunity to explain that you will start giving when 2x2ism is setup as a legal non-profit and publishes its financial records for all to see. I mean, even those 'false churches' do that for pity's sake. 2x2ministry.org/workers/cult_2x2_operations.php professing.proboards.com/thread/23679/financial-accountability-transparency?page=7professing.proboards.com/post/727924/threadSimpleton wrote that? Well I had questions before. Now I really question it's authenticity and the degree of 'fact' it offers. Don't get me wrong, I don't dismiss it outright, but now I am very wary and would caution others to really look at it carefully. I didn’t know Simpleton but yes they wrote it. It’s too bad content is ignored based on reputation, because they have some key points mixed in with their conspiracy theory. The main one is the structure of accounting. It’s near impossible to sue the 2x2 way or the 2x2 predator because they are setup like a mafia structure. |
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 29, 2023 19:22:32 GMT -5
Simpleton wrote that? Well I had questions before. Now I really question it's authenticity and the degree of 'fact' it offers. Don't get me wrong, I don't dismiss it outright, but now I am very wary and would caution others to really look at it carefully. I didn’t know Simpleton but yes they wrote it. It’s too bad content is ignored based on reputation, because they have some key points mixed in with their conspiracy theory. The main one is the structure of accounting. It’s near impossible to sue the 2x2 way or the 2x2 predator because they are setup like a mafia structure. I don't know them either...It is an entertaining read though. Kind of like historical fiction! ... an entertaining yarn spun from real events.... and who knows...maybe a lot of it is true. The financial structure that Simpleton lays out is either mostly true or mostly false....and it's either widely known about or it's a heavily kept secret...so: Mostly true and widely known about --> This would mean that the membership is are and are fine with it. Does this group have a specific anti-government stance? Like sovereign citizens or something? Mostly true and not widely known about --> Something about this possibility seems unlikely in this day and age. And less likely with every passing day. Too many people would be "in on it". If some internet rando has this nailed then for sure some financial crimes entity would have to be aware of it. Mostly false and widely known about --> Like most internet myths....don't let the truth get in the way of a good narrative! Mostly false and not widely know about --> If this were the case...it would restore my faith in humanity....generic falsehoods should not be propped up. If there is something there...I think it would be harder to keep secret than CSA. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 19:31:01 GMT -5
I didn’t know Simpleton but yes they wrote it. It’s too bad content is ignored based on reputation, because they have some key points mixed in with their conspiracy theory. The main one is the structure of accounting. It’s near impossible to sue the 2x2 way or the 2x2 predator because they are setup like a mafia structure. I don't know them either...It is an entertaining read though. Kind of like historical fiction! ... an entertaining yarn spun from real events.... and who knows...maybe a lot of it is true. The financial structure that Simpleton lays out is either mostly true or mostly false....and it's either widely known about or it's a heavily kept secret...so: Mostly true and widely known about --> This would mean that the membership is are and are fine with it. Does this group have a specific anti-government stance? Like sovereign citizens or something? Mostly true and not widely known about --> Something about this possibility seems unlikely in this day and age. And less likely with every passing day. Too many people would be "in on it". If some internet rando has this nailed then for sure some financial crimes entity would have to be aware of it. Mostly false and widely known about --> Like most internet myths....don't let the truth get in the way of a good narrative! Mostly false and not widely know about --> If this were the case...it would restore my faith in humanity....generic falsehoods should not be propped up. If there is something there...I think it would be harder to keep secret than CSA. The overseer hoarding the money part is not provable and probably not accurate. The intention behind any wrongdoing is also probably not there for a majority of instances. But the rest is pretty accurate. The workers stay in your house you have them cash they leave and at the end of the year at convention time they give all their money to the overseer and it’s redistributed. The overseer usually has a wealthy elder handle the total church money. But there is no transparency the workers uses the money as they see fit and in general it’s justified because the people in the church feel like they paid taxes on the money and they don’t need to report anything like the worldly churches do, afterall you don’t tell the right hand what the left hand is doing or you are giving to be seen of men….. So there is no record of where any money goes. At least no transparent annual report or anything like that. So ultimately should a lawsuit come up and they sue the worker or overseer or church, there is no church. They would have to sue the wealthy elder who has all the money in his name. |
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 29, 2023 20:25:40 GMT -5
I don't know them either...It is an entertaining read though. Kind of like historical fiction! ... an entertaining yarn spun from real events.... and who knows...maybe a lot of it is true. The financial structure that Simpleton lays out is either mostly true or mostly false....and it's either widely known about or it's a heavily kept secret...so: Mostly true and widely known about --> This would mean that the membership is are and are fine with it. Does this group have a specific anti-government stance? Like sovereign citizens or something? Mostly true and not widely known about --> Something about this possibility seems unlikely in this day and age. And less likely with every passing day. Too many people would be "in on it". If some internet rando has this nailed then for sure some financial crimes entity would have to be aware of it. Mostly false and widely known about --> Like most internet myths....don't let the truth get in the way of a good narrative! Mostly false and not widely know about --> If this were the case...it would restore my faith in humanity....generic falsehoods should not be propped up. If there is something there...I think it would be harder to keep secret than CSA. The overseer hoarding the money part is not provable and probably not accurate. The intention behind any wrongdoing is also probably not there for a majority of instances. But the rest is pretty accurate. The workers stay in your house you have them cash they leave and at the end of the year at convention time they give all their money to the overseer and it’s redistributed. The overseer usually has a wealthy elder handle the total church money. But there is no transparency the workers uses the money as they see fit and in general it’s justified because the people in the church feel like they paid taxes on the money and they don’t need to report anything like the worldly churches do, afterall you don’t tell the right hand what the left hand is doing or you are giving to be seen of men….. So there is no record of where any money goes. At least no transparent annual report or anything like that. So ultimately should a lawsuit come up and they sue the worker or overseer or church, there is no church. They would have to sue the wealthy elder who has all the money in his name. So if that part is not accurate... And the hoard of money is modest at best... What would anybody get by suing? Isn't the point of civil action to impose a monetary penalty? Also, if that part isn't true then the mafia-like structure is not a reference to money but to "territories"... Which, incidentally is how lots of sales works. If they were really savvy (and they don't seem to be) then the money could move around exactly like you allege, but it would never pile up... Just get used for travel and personal expenses. In fact, somebody that is smarter than me could probably make the case that is closer to how a true "church" should function. If money is allowed to accrue... People get a bit tempted. I came here due to the CSA and evident cover ups that have come to light, but, so far, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for vast piles of cash to get unearthed. If there was half as much money in a pile as Simpleton alleges.... There will be plenty of motivated lawyers and DA's going after it. Is there a desire in the "flock" (if that's the right word) to form an actual recognized non profit? |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 20:33:17 GMT -5
The overseer hoarding the money part is not provable and probably not accurate. The intention behind any wrongdoing is also probably not there for a majority of instances. But the rest is pretty accurate. The workers stay in your house you have them cash they leave and at the end of the year at convention time they give all their money to the overseer and it’s redistributed. The overseer usually has a wealthy elder handle the total church money. But there is no transparency the workers uses the money as they see fit and in general it’s justified because the people in the church feel like they paid taxes on the money and they don’t need to report anything like the worldly churches do, afterall you don’t tell the right hand what the left hand is doing or you are giving to be seen of men….. So there is no record of where any money goes. At least no transparent annual report or anything like that. So ultimately should a lawsuit come up and they sue the worker or overseer or church, there is no church. They would have to sue the wealthy elder who has all the money in his name. So if that part is not accurate... And the hoard of money is modest at best... What would anybody get by suing? Isn't the point of civil action to impose a monetary penalty? Also, if that part isn't true then the mafia-like structure is not a reference to money but to "territories"... Which, incidentally is how lots of sales works. If they were really savvy (and they don't seem to be) then the money could move around exactly like you allege, but it would never pile up... Just get used for travel and personal expenses. In fact, somebody that is smarter than me could probably make the case that is closer to how a true "church" should function. If money is allowed to accrue... People get a bit tempted. I came here due to the CSA and evident cover ups that have come to light, but, so far, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for vast piles of cash to get unearthed. If there was half as much money in a pile as Simpleton alleges.... There will be plenty of motivated lawyers and DA's going after it. Is there a desire in the "flock" (if that's the right word) to form an actual recognized non profit? The mafia like structure is the church accounting structure of the 2x2 way. Openness and transparency is done with a church that designates itself as a church. 2x2s don’t designate as a non profit or a church. The church pays no taxes, the salaried ministers pay no taxes and the money is laundered to prevent any sort of idea that the church or ministers owe any taxes. The mafia structure also works for the way crimes are committed. The membership and hierarchy is not recorded anywhere legit, they do have address books of friends and annual worker lists in each state or area. |
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 29, 2023 21:23:29 GMT -5
So if that part is not accurate... And the hoard of money is modest at best... What would anybody get by suing? Isn't the point of civil action to impose a monetary penalty? Also, if that part isn't true then the mafia-like structure is not a reference to money but to "territories"... Which, incidentally is how lots of sales works. If they were really savvy (and they don't seem to be) then the money could move around exactly like you allege, but it would never pile up... Just get used for travel and personal expenses. In fact, somebody that is smarter than me could probably make the case that is closer to how a true "church" should function. If money is allowed to accrue... People get a bit tempted. I came here due to the CSA and evident cover ups that have come to light, but, so far, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for vast piles of cash to get unearthed. If there was half as much money in a pile as Simpleton alleges.... There will be plenty of motivated lawyers and DA's going after it. Is there a desire in the "flock" (if that's the right word) to form an actual recognized non profit? The mafia like structure is the church accounting structure of the 2x2 way. Openness and transparency is done with a church that designates itself as a church. 2x2s don’t designate as a non profit or a church. The church pays no taxes, the salaried ministers pay no taxes and the money is laundered to prevent any sort of idea that the church or ministers owe any taxes. The mafia structure also works for the way crimes are committed. The membership and hierarchy is not recorded anywhere legit, they do have address books of friends and annual worker lists in each state or area. I know you are calling them salaried.... But are they? Does the membership want to be recognized by the state? I'm just wondering if there is some latent anti government tendencies. |
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Post by neighbour on Apr 29, 2023 21:30:36 GMT -5
I know you are calling them salaried.... But are they? Does the membership want to be recognized by the state? I'm just wondering if there is some latent anti government tendencies. No I wouldn't say they are salaried. As far as latent anti-government tendencies...not really in my experience. I'd say the mix in opinion on the role of government is equivalent to the general population in my area. The general idea is that the truth is God's spiritual kingdom, which is orthogonal to human government. |
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