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Post by neighbour on Apr 24, 2023 6:49:40 GMT -5
They never learned the adage "It's better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Yes Fixit I am absolutely for real!!! So you have been duped by pragmatic's 'scoop' find as well! 🤭🤣 Ray and his wife both have mutual professing friends with me on facebook and linkedin. Anyone with facebook or linkedin can look him up and compare his photos to his mug shot: www.azfamily.com/2022/09/08/phoenix-software-company-president-accused-having-child-porn/Are you suggesting he was not an elder or even professing when this happened?
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 24, 2023 7:09:29 GMT -5
You are referring to a different article to an earlier‘spoof’ that pragmatic posted for suckers
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Post by chuck on Apr 24, 2023 9:10:12 GMT -5
Actually they all are, most just sqaunder it. Actually it's just the vain imaginations of men. No it isn't. Take a deep breath. That's your anointing..... do you waste it? or use it to make the world a better place?..... In the old testament they thought only special people were anointed, prohets priest's kings, In Jesus time they made a revolutionary claim that everyone had the anointing...... This idea is found very early on in "dont take the LORD's name in vain", or "don't waste your breath" or "don't do things that do not align with the gracious compassionate slow to anger ect ect character". Later Jesus said "Hallowed be they name" which basicall means "commit to use your breath to it's fullest potential" Breath to them was a gift. It was the anointing, you could do nothing with it, or you could use it to bring heaven to earth basically. Amazing wisdom from ancient people. What a pity it's so misunderstood.
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Post by chuck on Apr 24, 2023 9:20:11 GMT -5
Here is something that I have not saw anyone bring up yet. Satan is the Lord of lies and the ultimate deceiver that is known to all. He is also in this for the long haul as his battle for control of our souls has been going on for quite sometime. God loves, heals and protects his people. God does NOT condone rape, CSA or any other evil act yet the 2x2 church does. Rape, CSA and the covering up of them are Satans tools and Satans ways not Gods. The 2x2 Church has covered up countless rapes and cases of CSA. It seems that Satan has fooled many into covering up rape and CSA in the name of God for fear of going to hell. The 2x2 standard practice as it has always been is to shun and silence the victim into not reporting it. It is also standard practice to "protect" the perpetrator not the victim and move the perpetrator to a new area where they are free to assault more innocent children and people. Those actions are NOT about God or being Godly people. Seems that Satan has fooled many into thinking that this church is about God when it also seems that it is more about Satans ways then Gods ways. Isn't it Satan that thought he knew better than God? It is also true that many Elders, workers and Overseers have said that they don't have to follow Gods rule because they know better just like good old Leroy as I wrote earlier. Just a thought. Here's my thought. Don't blame an entity no one even knows exists for the crimes of humans. It's a useless exercise imo. The "existent entity" idea ended in the period of time represented in the stories about Moses.
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Post by chuck on Apr 24, 2023 9:21:28 GMT -5
I wonder what ever happened to Peter Morrison. Seems to be a bit of a plonker Organisations tend to become tribal over time, which leads to their failure. Those who go with the flow are highly esteemed, while those who question the status quo are despised. That's why Jesus was killed.
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Post by chuck on Apr 24, 2023 9:41:43 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers". I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders".It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes. As a worker I tell you this statement is completely false and contrary to scripture. It surprises me that this kind of thinking occurs n the free west, as it smacks of Soviet Communist dogma! Philippians 2:12 "...work out your own salvation..." When we depart from scripture, we can expect all sorts of trouble. Now wonder we have landed we are now! We simply have to return to scripture! There are plenty of other books that offer wisdom that westerners understand, pointing ignorant people to ancient Hebrew wisdom mostly leads to people weponising the English words because they have absolutely no idea of the ancient concepts behind the translated words.
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Post by neighbour on Apr 24, 2023 9:55:18 GMT -5
As a worker I tell you this statement is completely false and contrary to scripture. It surprises me that this kind of thinking occurs n the free west, as it smacks of Soviet Communist dogma! Philippians 2:12 "...work out your own salvation..." When we depart from scripture, we can expect all sorts of trouble. Now wonder we have landed we are now! We simply have to return to scripture! There are plenty of other books that offer wisdom that westerners understand, pointing ignorant people to ancient Hebrew wisdom mostly leads to people weponising the English words because they have absolutely no idea of the ancient concepts behind the translated words. To this point, it was enlightening to watch the BBC documentary on the compilation of the King James Bible, and how many of the contemporaneous notes are still in the archives so we know most of the discussions and decisions made. There was a list of terms and ideas such as a "bishop" that were required to be in the KJV lest the structure of the Church of England and the status of the King as God's chosen head be called into question. But somehow it's supposed to be the only correct translation (ignore all the other languages that were translated separately!). In essence the KJV is a compromise between the Puritans and the King, it's just as tainted by an agenda (weaponized) as any other translation. Ps: for anyone not familiar, we were "KJV-only" until recently when it's become more accepted to consult other translations.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 24, 2023 10:49:27 GMT -5
A bit like modern society - stick a label on it, then you have an excuse for it.
Very true... Alcoholism = Alcoholics have a disease, not their fault they're drunk... Sex addict = raping children is an uncontrollable addiction, not a perversion... Kleptomania = is an impulse disorder, they can't help stealing... Transsexual = I think I'm female, therefore I am... Bulimia = obesity is a condition, no one over-eats and gets fat by choice.
Well, obesity is a condition for sure, but it's usually a fairly simple equation. Calories in vs. calories out. And frankly they are obese because they eat too much and don't move their bodies enough. I want to say to some people, "Well, if you would get up off your fat behind, maybe you wouldn't have such a fat behind"....but of course, I can't say that. Bulemics, on the other hand are usually not obese. In fact you may not be able to spot a bulemic and they may even be very fit. They binge and purge. You probably already know that. I get what you're saying. People have many excuses.
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Dean Bruer
Apr 24, 2023 11:35:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 11:35:06 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers". I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders".It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes. As a worker I tell you this statement is completely false and contrary to scripture. It surprises me that this kind of thinking occurs n the free west, as it smacks of Soviet Communist dogma! Philippians 2:12 "...work out your own salvation..." When we depart from scripture, we can expect all sorts of trouble. Now wonder we have landed we are now! We simply have to return to scripture! So true very important to follow God and his spirit rather than let the workers interpret what you are being told! Follow scripture! This causes me to copy another post from a different user. Here is some great scripture that needs to be examined. Celibacy, unmarried workers 1Corinthians 7:9 “But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” If celibacy was so essential to Jesus’ ministry, why choose married Peter to be an apostle? E.g. Matthew 8 “When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him.” 1Timothy 4:3 In latter times … “They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.” Hebrews 13:4 “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled” 2x2 ministry Matthew 10 “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,” Mark 6 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits; And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:” But we discover from scripture, this 2x2 ministry was temporary and for a specific purpose and point in time: Luke 22 “And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything. And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” Luke 24, sending the gospel to all the world: “Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” Then in Acts, we can read of the actual fulfilment of these words of Jesus, the gospel going forth starting in Jerusalem, into the whole world in the power and freedom of the Holy Spirit’s leading. Sometimes in ones (Philip and the Ethiopian, Acts 8), twos, threes and so on. The power and freedom of being led by God’s Spirit. Rather than constrained by human rules and reasoning. F&W only ones saved The Catholics believe this too (them). Can’t both be right. But both can be wrong! Addressed well by peggysullivan above. Money and accountability Throughout Acts and Paul’s letters, there are numerous mentions of collections of money for the poor in the church. E.g. Acts 11 “The disciples, as each one was able, decided to provide help for the brothers and sisters living in Judea. This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.” Always accountability involving more than one responsible person, and openness in the church regarding the whereabouts and use of gifts of money. And how's this for prescience and determination to be openly accountable on money issues in the church: 2Corinthians 8 Titus Sent to Receive the Collection 16 Thanks be to God, who put into the heart of Titus the same concern I have for you. 17 For Titus not only welcomed our appeal, but he is coming to you with much enthusiasm and on his own initiative. 18 And we are sending along with him the brother who is praised by all the churches for his service to the gospel. 19 What is more, he was chosen by the churches to accompany us as we carry the offering, which we administer in order to honor the Lord himself and to show our eagerness to help. 20 We want to avoid any criticism of the way we administer this liberal gift. 21 For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man. 22 In addition, we are sending with them our brother who has often proved to us in many ways that he is zealous, and now even more so because of his great confidence in you. 23 As for Titus, he is my partner and co-worker among you; as for our brothers, they are representatives of the churches and an honor to Christ. 24 Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it. There's possibly up to five people who are able to account for this collection: - Titus (1) - the brother who is praised by all the churches for his service to the gospel (2) - to accompany us as we carry the offering (3 & 4) - In addition, we are sending with them our brother who has often proved to us in many ways that he is zealous (5) We can be pretty confident that this money was accounted for every last denarius, and that it got to where it was intended and used for the purpose it was given!
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Post by verna on Apr 24, 2023 11:54:01 GMT -5
Very true... Alcoholism = Alcoholics have a disease, not their fault they're drunk... Sex addict = raping children is an uncontrollable addiction, not a perversion... Kleptomania = is an impulse disorder, they can't help stealing... Transsexual = I think I'm female, therefore I am... Bulimia = obesity is a condition, no one over-eats and gets fat by choice.
Well, obesity is a condition for sure, but it's usually a fairly simple equation. Calories in vs. calories out. And frankly they are obese because they eat too much and don't move their bodies enough. I want to say to some people, "Well, if you would get up off your fat behind, maybe you wouldn't have such a fat behind"....but of course, I can't say that. Bulemics, on the other hand are usually not obese. In fact you may not be able to spot a bulemic and they may even be very fit. They binge and purge. You probably already know that. I get what you're saying. People have many excuses. Unfortunately my experience with Dan is that he asks questions like he is interested in understanding but then just continues to discount people’s experience. I am tired of trying to explain. I applaud questioning and debating but at some point you need to listen and accept the experiences of others as legitimate. Glad there are others on here now to take up the challenge. I wish you well.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 24, 2023 12:25:28 GMT -5
There are many letters coming out where Overseer after Overseer has silenced the victim and protected the perpetrator. It may not be written and I didn't say it was I am saying that it is a standard practice to do NOTHING but move and protect the perpetrator then silence the victim, Those actions make it seem like they condone the behavior. If they didn't why haven't they been reported over the decades? To protect the church no matter what. The problem is, it is not "protecting the church". It is undermining the church and betraying all the really good people who are invested in it. Why can they not see that? I agree that ultimately it is undermining the church. Definitely also agree that it is an ultimate betrayal because the majority of the people in the church are good people. The church has many protections in place: The fact that it is "standard procedure" to convince the victim to NOT report the crimes to keep the church off the police or any official radar. It is "standard procedure" to move the victim to a new area to defile more victims still not reporting anytime they have ever moved a rapist or pedophile. It is "standard procedure" for every Overseer to not report any crimes including rape and pedophelia. It is also standard procedure to not have any official records. No church bank accounts only private bank accounts of members used for church business and a moving cache of cash in each area the Overseer is in control of. It is standard procedure to coerce people to do everything they can to keep the church out of the spotlight and nothing official. If someone was to report one of these rapist that would be undermining the church because that would be going against standard church policy as we have read in what the 7 Overseers have stated in various letters.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 24, 2023 12:36:53 GMT -5
I am going to go against what I said and contact you directly in this post. I haven't been on here in a few days and I come back and it is just NON STOP with your relentlessly picking at people. YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO TALK. According to you there has been a single incident where the church turned someone in. Yet you can't prove it. You are the ONLY person to know of such an incident and will not provide ANY supporting facts yet you have the audacity to ask for details on other peoples postings? "IF" it happened which is highly unlikely giving the name of the convicted criminal who was incarcerated would hurt no one it's public record there dude. But you can't because it didn't happen. Now you want peoples real names? You post yours and we will start there. You "demand" a lot from people on here but give very little. WHY ARE YOU HERE? What do you post about? Nothing but trying to put doubt into people mind that the church is NOT protecting pedos and rapists which everyday it is proven that that is exactly what they have always done. Unless everyone of them is a liar. Do you give ANY advice? No, you attack relentlessly. Do you give ANY support or help to people? No, you insult. Do you do ANYTHING remotely positive on here? No, you are the single biggest negative influence on here. This is your life and you are a sad sad lost man. Do you give any stories supporting you claim that the 2x2s are anything other than what is coming out?(besides made up ones with NO details that people are just supposed to believe)NO, you do nothing but attempt to be quippy. WHY ARE YOU ON HERE? ? I've gotten many messages from people who have stated that you have gotten kicked off here before. I can't wait until it happens again. I honestly have no idea what the moderators are waiting for. You just attack, attack and attack people constantly. Try understanding peoples plights and the extreme abuse they have went through. Try understanding that their life is forever changed and all the church has done is belittle them, bully them into silence then shun them all the while going out of their way to protect the abusers, pedophiles and rapist. That is Not of God. I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand that. There nothing you can say to make those actions seem to be about God, being a good person, or doing the right thing.(except for the church) You're higher up in the church a worker, elder or whatever great. You still can't polish a sweet nothing bud all you end up with is a shiny piece of poo. Do you offer anything other than attacks, wannabe sarcasm and the like? The truth is coming out about the truth whether you like it or not. You can't stop it. Are you going to attack each new member on here who shares something you want covered up? I have come to terms with the type of person you are. The more you attack people the more it shows your true nature. Look you don't like it and I get that. But enough is enough, stop the relentless attacking people. Do you live to argue? Is this the highlight of your day? Do you get some sort of twisted satisfaction with your constant negativity? Don't you have something better to do than to constantly attack people? Take a break for a week, it'll do you some good. I'm a "professing" person, born and raised. It is my understanding that internationalstudies is a worker? If so, internationalstudies' embarassing antics on here are proof that there really are infantile adults in the work. They are doing nothing to convince me these current scandals will be handled according to the Spirit. Well said and hello there fellow new person. His appropriate nickname is an abbreviation PoPs (Protector of Perverts) I went against what I said because someone has to say something about his relentless attacks on people. Thats all he does. I said my peace and thats all I can do. Not going to give him the satisfaction of arguing with him as that is his goal. To draw attention from the topics at hand by circumventing conversations and redirecting them to himself. That way he protects the church. I know people in the 2x2s and and from what I have learned this has been going on for decades. Looking at history it has been shown that not a single incident has ever been reported to the police by church leadership. Only "against" the churches wishes. There are countless stories where the victims are shamed into silence and many where even the victims were ex-communicated for bringing up such tall tales. The churches standard procedure is to move the perpetrators and never report them. The ONLY reason why all this is happening is because a private investigator met with Doyle Smith and convinced his to turn in the laptop because Dean Bruer was connected to another case the private investigator was working on. Now there are hundreds of people being investigated.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 24, 2023 13:11:58 GMT -5
I blame Satan for making good people hide horrible crimes as a standard procedure in a hidden church. Satan is the ultimate deceiver. I don’t understand why people blame Satan. Just confuses the situation. Let me clear up what I was attempting to say, I apologize for not being clear. Satan is the ultimate deceiver I think we can all agree on that. Satan has convinced those that make the rules in the 2x2's that covering up the rapes and CSA is the right course in order to keep the church out of the spotlight. Essentially good people find out about evil acts and because they do what they are told they do NOT ever report it. Instead the standard practice by ALL Overseers in any country is to silence the victim and do nothing but move the perpetrator of the evil act to another area where that are free to defile more innocents. Because this has been done the entire time the church has been around well over 100 years that means that it is a response that is taught far and wide to all that are higher ups in the 2x2's. History shows us that no one in church leadership has ever reported any crimes. It also goes to show that since there have been several known workers and Overseers that have spent time in jail for "not" reporting crimes that NOT reporting crimes is what they are taught and required to do. That means that the 2x2 leadership at some point made a decision to make it policy to do everything they can to cover up these evil acts. Seems to be a founding principal among the leadership to accept that. Yes it is people that do these evil acts, yes it is people that allow these evil acts to continue by not reporting it. But it is Satan and not God that has made these people adopt and accept as this their standard method of dealing with these things. He has deceived them into thinking that this is a good thing and for the betterment of the church. People do these evil things. God has nothing to do with rape, pedophelia or covering them up, those are the ways of Satans minions which are the ones that made this a standard method far and wide across the world and the annuls of time among those higher up in the church. All in all people do the crimes not Satan I understand that. However it is Satan that has put the thought to cover it up for the good of the church and make it acceptable to do such a thing once they find out. Hope that helps. Thank you for your comment, have a blessed day.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 24, 2023 13:17:00 GMT -5
I'm not troubled or concerned by this post or other flack that I attract? Why? Because I am settled and assured regarding what I have posted. That which brings into question the integrity, motive, truthfulness of a number of posters that I have challenged (they know who they are!😀). I challenge, reveal the lack of substance to their incorrect statements and wild allegations, their hypocrisy ....and they have NOTHING to offer in defence of their mischief. It is overdue time that someone stood up and said NO, 'you can't post your nonsense and not face scrutiny about it'. Stick and stones will hurt my bones but TMB baseless words and attacks will never harm me! I could further respond regarding number of further jaundiced recent posts by on this thread. They reveal the bias and closed mind of the posters. I can't be bothered. Actually I have better things to do with my time. (my apologies if that doesn't come across good!.) Let posters use their discernment themselves to form their own impression of what is going on. Several have pmed me. They get it! I don't need any support, but it is a reassurance that there are others who see the nonsense on here by a few posters for what is actually is.😀 I wish to make it clear that I am referring to posts by a small minority of posters. There are also very decent good people who post here!😀👍 p.s. These posters post thousands of post on multiple threads. I don't bother to look at what nonsense they are posting elsewhere. I have chosen to just challenge a few of the things that need scrutiny and examination on this one thread. Your post basically reads "my head is buried so far up my own a$$ I can't see anything but my own opinions being correct" Free thinking is the ability to alter your point of view when presented with new evidence. Well said indeed! Walk away KO of PoPs, bring a stretcher quickly!! The win goes to MrDobolina!!!!
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Post by verna on Apr 24, 2023 13:26:15 GMT -5
I don’t understand why people blame Satan. Just confuses the situation. Let me clear up what I was attempting to say, I apologize for not being clear. Satan is the ultimate deceiver I think we can all agree on that. Satan has convinced those that make the rules in the 2x2's that covering up the rapes and CSA is the right course in order to keep the church out of the spotlight. Essentially good people find out about evil acts and because they do what they are told they do NOT ever report it. Instead the standard practice by ALL Overseers in any country is to silence the victim and do nothing but move the perpetrator of the evil act to another area where that are free to defile more innocents. Because this has been done the entire time the church has been around well over 100 years that means that it is a response that is taught far and wide to all that are higher ups in the 2x2's. History shows us that no one in church leadership has ever reported any crimes. It also goes to show that since there have been several known workers and Overseers that have spent time in jail for "not" reporting crimes that NOT reporting crimes is what they are taught and required to do. That means that the 2x2 leadership at some point made a decision to make it policy to do everything they can to cover up these evil acts. Seems to be a founding principal among the leadership to accept that. Yes it is people that do these evil acts, yes it is people that allow these evil acts to continue by not reporting it. But it is Satan and not God that has made these people adopt and accept as this their standard method of dealing with these things. He has deceived them into thinking that this is a good thing and for the betterment of the church. People do these evil things. God has nothing to do with rape, pedophelia or covering them up, those are the ways of Satans minions which are the ones that made this a standard method far and wide across the world and the annuls of time among those higher up in the church. All in all people do the crimes not Satan I understand that. However it is Satan that has put the thought to cover it up for the good of the church and make it acceptable to do such a thing once they find out. Hope that helps. Thank you for your comment, have a blessed day. No it clears up nothing. I understand that people think these things are the work of Satan. I find that bizarre and completely part of the problem/confusion. I do not believe in Satan. I do believe in human inclination (based on evolution), trauma, greed, power, ignorance and likely some psychopathy. I see no need for adding Satan into the equation unless the goal is to confuse.
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 13:31:22 GMT -5
I'm a "professing" person, born and raised. It is my understanding that internationalstudies is a worker? If so, internationalstudies' embarassing antics on here are proof that there really are infantile adults in the work. They are doing nothing to convince me these current scandals will be handled according to the Spirit. I'm not troubled or concerned by this post or other flack that I attract? Why? Because I am settled and assured regarding what I have posted. That which brings into question the integrity, motive, truthfulness of a number of posters that I have challenged (they know who they are!😀). I challenge, reveal the lack of substance to their incorrect statements and wild allegations, their hypocrisy ....and they have NOTHING to offer in defence of their mischief. It is overdue time that someone stood up and said NO, 'you can't post your nonsense and not face scrutiny about it'. Stick and stones will hurt my bones but TMB baseless words and attacks will never harm me! I could further respond regarding number of further jaundiced recent posts by on this thread. They reveal the bias and closed mind of the posters. I can't be bothered. Actually I have better things to do with my time. (my apologies if that doesn't come across good!.) Let posters use their discernment themselves to form their own impression of what is going on. Several have pmed me. They get it! I don't need any support, but it is a reassurance that there are others who see the nonsense on here by a few posters for what is actually is.😀 I wish to make it clear that I am referring to posts by a small minority of posters. There are also very decent good people who post here!😀👍 p.s. These posters post thousands of post on multiple threads. I don't bother to look at what nonsense they are posting elsewhere. I have chosen to just challenge a few of the things that need scrutiny and examination on this one thread. Thanks for your honest attempt to help the way grow and really improve it to make it better. Which reform suggestions do you like the best? I didn’t see you agree that anything further needs to be done but I could have missed it. Oh, also, Are the decent good people who post on here and are outside the fold lost sheep?
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 24, 2023 13:32:44 GMT -5
We agree on one thing. Let the readers discern! You STILL sucked in and taken with your 'find' from the 'scoop'/ 'true facts' Phoenix software engineer??? 😳🤭 How about some compassion for those who are hurting and reading here? PoPs only has compassion for workers and Overseers who have been convicted or are actively stepping down/out/back because of the investigation going on due to the the things they did. He could care less about the victims his goal is the protect the church no matter what and cast shade on anything anyone says about those in the work. Thats why he try's to cast doubt on EVERY single thing anyone says about someone in the work until he can't because they are charged. There are more people that will be charged for these types of crimes. Dean Bruers laptop is pivotal to alot of these thats why the private investigator compelled Dolye Smith the turn it over. Dean Bruer was not an isolated incident and was not alone in his actions. Thats why time will show that what I said in the beginning will absolutely come to pass and far more. There are hundreds of investigations going on. In the coming months many will be charged. So PoPs will be a busy man casting shade and doubt on all thats going to come out.
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 13:37:03 GMT -5
I was speaking for myself, and not others. I made that quite clear. Appreciate you making that clear/clarifying that! 👍😀 There are a growing number of friends who don’t feel comfortable having workers stay in their children’s room and use the family internet to access porn. If meeting had a specific way to deal with this hidden issue, maybe there could be a couple less Dean Bruers because their perversions wouldn’t have the chance to secretly grow.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 24, 2023 13:42:05 GMT -5
Let me clear up what I was attempting to say, I apologize for not being clear. Satan is the ultimate deceiver I think we can all agree on that. Satan has convinced those that make the rules in the 2x2's that covering up the rapes and CSA is the right course in order to keep the church out of the spotlight. Essentially good people find out about evil acts and because they do what they are told they do NOT ever report it. Instead the standard practice by ALL Overseers in any country is to silence the victim and do nothing but move the perpetrator of the evil act to another area where that are free to defile more innocents. Because this has been done the entire time the church has been around well over 100 years that means that it is a response that is taught far and wide to all that are higher ups in the 2x2's. History shows us that no one in church leadership has ever reported any crimes. It also goes to show that since there have been several known workers and Overseers that have spent time in jail for "not" reporting crimes that NOT reporting crimes is what they are taught and required to do. That means that the 2x2 leadership at some point made a decision to make it policy to do everything they can to cover up these evil acts. Seems to be a founding principal among the leadership to accept that. Yes it is people that do these evil acts, yes it is people that allow these evil acts to continue by not reporting it. But it is Satan and not God that has made these people adopt and accept as this their standard method of dealing with these things. He has deceived them into thinking that this is a good thing and for the betterment of the church. People do these evil things. God has nothing to do with rape, pedophelia or covering them up, those are the ways of Satans minions which are the ones that made this a standard method far and wide across the world and the annuls of time among those higher up in the church. All in all people do the crimes not Satan I understand that. However it is Satan that has put the thought to cover it up for the good of the church and make it acceptable to do such a thing once they find out. Hope that helps. Thank you for your comment, have a blessed day. No it clears up nothing. I understand that people think these things are the work of Satan. I find that bizarre and completely part of the problem/confusion. I do not believe in Satan. I do believe in human inclination (based on evolution), trauma, greed, power, ignorance and likely some psychopathy. I see no need for adding Satan into the equation unless the goal is to confuse. Ok so you don't believe in Satan. Thats ok. A quote I've always liked is "The greatest trick the devil ever did was to convince the world he didn't exist." If one believes in God then one has to believe in Satan. Maybe you don't believe in either and thats ok. I hope you believe in evil and the church has alot of evil in it on how it handles these vile acts like rape and pedophelia. That is evident by their standard procedure in how they handle the victims of these rapists and pedophiles and what they do with them. It is disgusting how they are taught to deal with things. I hope that every perpetrator is brought to justice so the victims can have at least some sort of solace, justice and closure. I hope they can live a happier and better life because I don't think that one really recovers from such trauma completely.
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Post by mountain on Apr 24, 2023 13:52:53 GMT -5
Appreciate you making that clear/clarifying that! 👍😀 There are a growing number of friends who don’t feel comfortable having workers stay in their children’s room and use the family internet to access porn. If meeting had a specific way to deal with this hidden issue, maybe there could be a couple less Dean Bruers because their perversions wouldn’t have the chance to secretly grow. Much is said (rightly) that education and awareness are primary tools in combatting CSA and other forms of abuse. However, this inadvertently places responsibility on the victims, whilst ignoring perpetrators. It means that a 7-8 year old child is meant to stand up to a mature 40 year old in these matters. Education and awareness will not replace fear in these circumstances and if the child succumbs to advances, will be even more reluctant to tell their parents for fear of being told what they should have done. What education and awareness need is the limiting of the scope of perpetrators to carry out their deeds. This can only be done through restricting as far as possible, temptation and opportunity. Without these a perp cannot carry out their misdeeds. Allowing trusted, revered and unrelated people to stay in homes where there are children and/or other vulnerable people is blatantly giving temptation a chance to flourish amongst potential perps as well as opportunity to work on or carry out their misdeeds. Awareness of this is essential. There are other situations which need addressed as well. Everyone needs to understand this in order to protect the weak and vulnerable. Good, honest, workers and elders will readily see this and factor it in, in their domestic and other pertinent arrangements. Part of the Lord's Prayer is ...'Lead us not into temptation, and deliver us from all evil.' This should be a key part of the advice so necessary for combatting CSA, etc. Yes the good workers have to suffer due to the criminal and abusive actions of the few bad eggs, but that is the way of life and is how society addresses the matter. No right thinking person in the world would condone workers staying in the homes of unrelated children or other vulnerable persons while it is evident that these abuses occur. For the sake of their own standing, the work has to get with it!
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Dean Bruer
Apr 24, 2023 13:56:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 13:56:37 GMT -5
Latest letter from Doyle S. Tap to enlarge. If this latest communication from Doyle fails to assure readers of the integrity and transparency with which he is handling this awful business. Then I don't think anything would/will.🤷♂️ There has been numerous incorrect statements and baseless speculation presented by a small clique of determined posters on this forum. It appears their primary motive is 'to have crack' at the church/fellowship they have come to despise, rather than have a primary concern for victims? I'm not expecting them to retract or apologise for their incorrect statements and baseless speculation/ 'alternative facts' that they have been seeking to influence readers of this forum with over the past week. Welcome to the Wild West world of the internet! Where without some discernment and checking, you'll get taken for a ride! Speaking of the Internet, how often do workers have access to the Wi-Fi of the home they are staying in? Is it likely that Dean Bruer was using the friends Wi-Fi gain access to the internet to grow his perversions? Also, how often to workers speak to the friends and other workers about porn on the internet and it’s impact on the work and family life? Do you think the way should have recurring meetings addressing how to help others deal with porn, speak transparently about their porn usage, and take steps to overcome porn issues?
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Dean Bruer
Apr 24, 2023 14:10:58 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 14:10:58 GMT -5
There are a growing number of friends who don’t feel comfortable having workers stay in their children’s room and use the family internet to access porn. If meeting had a specific way to deal with this hidden issue, maybe there could be a couple less Dean Bruers because their perversions wouldn’t have the chance to secretly grow. Much is said (rightly) that education and awareness are primary tools in combatting CSA and other forms of abuse. However, this inadvertently places responsibility on the victims, whilst ignoring perpetrators. It means that a 7-8 year old child is meant to stand up to a mature 40 year old in these matters. Education and awareness will not replace fear in these circumstances and if the child succumbs to advances, will be even more reluctant to tell their parents for fear of being told what they should have done. What education and awareness need is the limiting of the scope of perpetrators to carry out their deeds. This can only be done through restricting as far as possible, temptation and opportunity. Without these a perp cannot carry out their misdeeds. Allowing trusted, revered and unrelated people to stay in homes where there are children and/or other vulnerable people is blatantly giving temptation a chance to flourish amongst potential perps as well as opportunity to work on or carry out their misdeeds. Awareness of this is essential. There are other situations which need addressed as well. Everyone needs to understand this in order to protect the weak and vulnerable. Good, honest, workers and elders will readily see this and factor it in, in their domestic and other pertinent arrangements. Part of the Lord's Prayer is ...'Lead us not into temptation, and deliver us from all evil.' This should be a key part of the advice so necessary for combatting CSA, etc. Yes the good workers have to suffer due to the criminal and abusive actions of the few bad eggs, but that is the way of life and is how society addresses the matter. No right thinking person in the world would condone workers staying in the homes of unrelated children or other vulnerable persons while it is evident that these abuses occur. For the sake of their own standing, the work has to get with it! Very well said. The 2x2lowercaseway must address the issue or porn before the perversion grows. The “only way” setup combined with the hidden porn problem make perversions exponentially grow because the worker pervert is in a place of authority and believes they will be forgiven over and over as their perversions grow larger and larger. No matter how much education a victim gets they will still see a worker in the only way as something tied to God and that will be just one more barrier they have to overcome. If they can’t setup a simple system to speak freely about porn and porn issues and how to talk to about porn issues and refrain from hiding then the problem is just going to grow. Workers who watch porn to address their lust issues should leave the work until they figured out how to live the celibate lifestyle without porn.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 24, 2023 14:18:33 GMT -5
If this latest communication from Doyle fails to assure readers of the integrity and transparency with which he is handling this awful business. Then I don't think anything would/will.🤷♂️ There has been numerous incorrect statements and baseless speculation presented by a small clique of determined posters on this forum. It appears their primary motive is 'to have crack' at the church/fellowship they have come to despise, rather than have a primary concern for victims? I'm not expecting them to retract or apologise for their incorrect statements and baseless speculation/ 'alternative facts' that they have been seeking to influence readers of this forum with over the past week. Welcome to the Wild West world of the internet! Where without some discernment and checking, you'll get taken for a ride! Speaking of the Internet, how often do workers have access to the Wi-Fi of the home they are staying in? Is it likely that Dean Bruer was using the friends Wi-Fi gain access to the internet to grow his perversions? Also, how often to workers speak to the friends and other workers about porn on the internet and it’s impact on the work and family life? Do you think the way should have recurring meetings addressing how to help others deal with porn, speak transparently about their porn usage, and take steps to overcome porn issues? luke2236.You are not a member of what you refer to as the '2x2 way' am I correct? You are taking quite an interest in them, have lots of suggestions of how you think they are wrong and what they need to do! 'What's your beef'? Where are you coming from? The impression I have is that you are posting to 'let off a bit a steam' about a group of people that you despise. It gives you cathartic release to do so. There are a few like you who aren't part of this 'awful 2x2 outfit' but sure seem to all the answers about how to fix up all that they feel is wrong with them!!! This is forum where they are free to do so. If it helps you and others to feel better in doing so, then this is a good safe anonymous place to do so eh?🤷♂️👍
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 14:26:24 GMT -5
Speaking of the Internet, how often do workers have access to the Wi-Fi of the home they are staying in? Is it likely that Dean Bruer was using the friends Wi-Fi gain access to the internet to grow his perversions? Also, how often to workers speak to the friends and other workers about porn on the internet and it’s impact on the work and family life? Do you think the way should have recurring meetings addressing how to help others deal with porn, speak transparently about their porn usage, and take steps to overcome porn issues? luke2236.You are not a member of what you refer to as the '2x2 way' am I correct? You are taking quite an interest in them, have lots of suggestions of how you think they are wrong and what they need to do! 'What's your beef'? Where are you coming from? The impression I have is that you are posting to 'let off a bit a steam' about a group of people that you despise. It gives you cathartic release to do so. No sir, I never quit professing (isn’t that the term for a non-member?) In fact Im a historically very humbly proud 5th generation saint. I noticed you didn’t answer any of the questions regarding the porn problem. You answer mine and I’ll answer yours.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 24, 2023 14:28:02 GMT -5
luke2236.You are not a member of what you refer to as the '2x2 way' am I correct? You are taking quite an interest in them, have lots of suggestions of how you think they are wrong and what they need to do! 'What's your beef'? Where are you coming from? The impression I have is that you are posting to 'let off a bit a steam' about a group of people that you despise. It gives you cathartic release to do so. No sir, I never quit professing (isn’t that the term for a non-member?) In fact Im a historically very humbly proud 5th generation saint. I noticed you didn’t answer any of the questions regarding the porn problem. You answer mine and I’ll answer yours. I've looked through your posts and to be frank I struggle to believe what you have just posted. If you wish I'll quote some of your posts that have made me feel this way?
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 24, 2023 14:29:10 GMT -5
No sir, I never quit professing (isn’t that the term for a non-member?) In fact Im a historically very humbly proud 5th generation saint. I noticed you didn’t answer any of the questions regarding the porn problem. You answer mine and I’ll answer yours. I've looked through your posts and to be frank I struggle to believe what you have just posted. If you wish I'll quote some of your posts that have made me feel this way? I’m just waiting for you to answer my questions. But it appears you won’t so we really have no dialogue.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 24, 2023 14:42:02 GMT -5
Much is said (rightly) that education and awareness are primary tools in combatting CSA and other forms of abuse. However, this inadvertently places responsibility on the victims, whilst ignoring perpetrators. It means that a 7-8 year old child is meant to stand up to a mature 40 year old in these matters. Education and awareness will not replace fear in these circumstances and if the child succumbs to advances, will be even more reluctant to tell their parents for fear of being told what they should have done. Thanks for bringing this up. When grooming and CSA start on a child, they often do not know how to recognize it. They may feel the abuser just likes them and for some reason takes a special interest in them. They may like the attention at first and if it is an esteemed worker, even moreso. And the child may feel confused when the abuse actually starts. Many perps are very very good at giving veiled threats if the child tells anyone about it. CSA ends up being more than just about the sexual component of the abuse. It includes mental, emotional, and if the clergy is involved, spiritual. IT's truly a very sickening thing. Take it a step further and if adults know about it and don't expose it....it's covered up and there are NO CONSEQUENCES for the perps.
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Dean Bruer
Apr 24, 2023 14:49:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by internationalstudies on Apr 24, 2023 14:49:29 GMT -5
I've looked through your posts and to be frank I struggle to believe what you have just posted. If you wish I'll quote some of your posts that have made me feel this way? I’m just waiting for you to answer my questions. But it appears you won’t so we really have no dialogue. You are quite correct on the basis of how you post/what you write there is no reason to respond. I could say more but will leave it at this. Have a good day!😀
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