jane
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by jane on Apr 17, 2023 20:42:30 GMT -5
The way Morgan's situation was handled is/was so typical. We can read the letters talking about change, but i'm not convinced. When a western Canadian overseer was under investigation recently, it was (and still is) keep hush hush.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 17, 2023 20:43:20 GMT -5
Thanks ChineseWhispers. The more of these instances that can be published the better, because every witness strengthens the case. And that is to protect potential victims by enabling and forcig necessary change in the church, supporting those that are victims already, and to eliminate perpetrators.
And good on them for writing the letter, and I hope Morgan is OK.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 17, 2023 22:16:09 GMT -5
Have you openly acknowledged that past response to CSA in the church has generally been appalling? If you have, I missed it. Absolutely agree there have been instances in the past where the response to CSA in the church has been appalling. There have also been instances in the past where enlightened workers and Overseers have dealt with CSA in the correct manner. (of course those with loaded agendas struggle to acknowledge that). I am also confident that recent events will help ensure that, where necessary measures, policies, code of conduct have not already been implemented. Then that is happening now or will be happening within a very short time frame. Of course this will still be unsatisfactory to a certain type of TMB poster. I don't lose any sleep over them and their agendas  , can you share with us an example of where the Workers and Overseers have dealt correctly with CSA please. Thank you in advance. |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 18, 2023 0:31:38 GMT -5
Absolutely agree there have been instances in the past where the response to CSA in the church has been appalling. There have also been instances in the past where enlightened workers and Overseers have dealt with CSA in the correct manner. (of course those with loaded agendas struggle to acknowledge that). I am also confident that recent events will help ensure that, where necessary measures, policies, code of conduct have not already been implemented. Then that is happening now or will be happening within a very short time frame. Of course this will still be unsatisfactory to a certain type of TMB poster. I don't lose any sleep over them and their agendas , can you share with us an example of where the Workers and Overseers have dealt correctly with CSA please. Thank you in advance. Sure! An adolescent girl was sexually abused by a professing relative. Years went by, the girl never professed, the relative continued professing. The girl many years later spoke to the workers, the workers encouraged her to contact law enforcement. The conclusion was the man served a prison sentence |
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Post by chuck on Apr 18, 2023 2:05:02 GMT -5
"Professing", "Not Professing"
Another example of religious performance as the measuring stick that has absolutely zero consistency in defining a proper person.......
I dunno what this guy was "proffesing" in but people need to wake up to themselves and stop using this sort of language and measuring stick. It's stupid.
No wonder the girl never "proffessed".....she experienced it in the most invasive way possible.....Sad!.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 18, 2023 2:06:05 GMT -5
internationalstudies , can you share with us an example of where the Workers and Overseers have dealt correctly with CSA please. Thank you in advance. Sure! An adolescent girl was sexually abused by a professing relative. Years went by, the girl never professed, the relative continued professing. The girl many years later spoke to the workers, the workers encouraged her to contact law enforcement. The conclusion was the man served a prison sentence , thank you for your response. Maybe some context might help. What country was this in? How long ago? Were her parents aware of the abuse ? Who were the Workers who encouraged her to go contact law enforcement? |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 18, 2023 2:17:12 GMT -5
"Professing", "Not Professing" Another example of religious performance as the measuring stick that has absolutely zero consistency in defining a proper person....... I dunno what this guy was "proffesing" in but people need to wake up to themselves and stop using this sort of language and measuring stick. It's stupid. No wonder the girl never "proffessed".....she experienced it in the most invasive way possible.....Sad!. I am surprised more of the workers haven't had a good beating. Are the friends so frightened of them they wouldn't do this? |
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Post by fixit on Apr 18, 2023 2:25:44 GMT -5
internationalstudies , can you share with us an example of where the Workers and Overseers have dealt correctly with CSA please. Thank you in advance. Sure! An adolescent girl was sexually abused by a professing relative. Years went by, the girl never professed, the relative continued professing. The girl many years later spoke to the workers, the workers encouraged her to contact law enforcement. The conclusion was the man served a prison sentence And the church apologised to the girl and her family, and worked hard to support the girl who remained a broken wreck? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 18, 2023 2:40:01 GMT -5
Sure! An adolescent girl was sexually abused by a professing relative. Years went by, the girl never professed, the relative continued professing. The girl many years later spoke to the workers, the workers encouraged her to contact law enforcement. The conclusion was the man served a prison sentence And the church apologised to the girl and her family, and worked hard to support the girl who remained a broken wreck? That is the part that no one wants to talk about fixit, the trauma that the victim has to suffer. |
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Post by chuck on Apr 18, 2023 3:55:00 GMT -5
"Professing", "Not Professing" Another example of religious performance as the measuring stick that has absolutely zero consistency in defining a proper person....... I dunno what this guy was "proffesing" in but people need to wake up to themselves and stop using this sort of language and measuring stick. It's stupid. No wonder the girl never "proffessed".....she experienced it in the most invasive way possible.....Sad!. I am surprised more of the workers haven't had a good beating. Are the friends so frightened of them they wouldn't do this? I dont know, what I do know is the power the workers hold subconsciously in people's minds is life altering. |
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Post by mountain on Apr 18, 2023 4:12:27 GMT -5
Thanks ChineseWhispers. The more of these instances that can be published the better, because every witness strengthens the case. And that is to protect potential victims by enabling and forcig necessary change in the church, supporting those that are victims already, and to eliminate perpetrators. And good on them for writing the letter, and I hope Morgan is OK. Keep in mind Wally has a gun! |
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Post by mountain on Apr 18, 2023 4:15:21 GMT -5
I am surprised more of the workers haven't had a good beating. Are the friends so frightened of them they wouldn't do this? I dont know, what I do know is the power the workers hold subconsciously in people's minds is life altering. It demands sycophancy. |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 18, 2023 5:22:26 GMT -5
Sure! An adolescent girl was sexually abused by a professing relative. Years went by, the girl never professed, the relative continued professing. The girl many years later spoke to the workers, the workers encouraged her to contact law enforcement. The conclusion was the man served a prison sentence , thank you for your response. Maybe some context might help. What country was this in? How long ago? Were her parents aware of the abuse ? Who were the Workers who encouraged her to go contact law enforcement? Are you kidding? NO I will certainly not disclose such details! You seem to have no understanding of victims and their wishes. If you don't wish to accept and believe the details I have supplied I have no concern about that. |
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Post by Dan on Apr 18, 2023 5:37:30 GMT -5
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU DON’T GO TO THE WORKERS NOT EVEN IF YOU ARE A WORKER WOW WHOA ……………. Wings for Truth Adult-Adult Abuse Apr 16 WINGS has always been focused on support and guidance on every aspect of Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) and to support victims of CSA. We have been aware of adult-adult abuse but have not posted details of those cases. However we have decided to post the letter below, even though it is out of scope, as it illustrates the victim blaming and abuser shifting that has occurred in CSA cases. The letter is being shared with permission given from the authors, Bob and Stacy Bainbridge, who own convention grounds in New Brunswick. The letter is in regards to their daughter, Morgan, who was in the work. Dear Friends, It is with Morgan's permission that we send this email. The absence of information and lack of acknowledgment of recent abuses and how its been or being handled has put and continues to put innocent people in harms way. So this is the reason for our letter. We would like to make clear the reason that Morgan is out of the work and in NZ. In March of 2021 Morgan brought information forward to the overseer about emotional/psychological/narcissistic abuse and sexual misconduct by two of her older companions. After hearing her experience he agreed that this behavior was abuse. When Morgan then informed him who the abusers were, he changed the subject. In the following weeks and months he made efforts to slander, discredit, undermine and portray her as a liar to cover up and dismiss the abuse. With the support and similar stories from others the overseer was forced to acknowledge the abuse yet again, the acknowledgement however, was short lived. With the continued support from staff other overseers were brought in from the USA. Many hours were spent in visits with the staff during their time here. It was at this time that one of these overseers suggested to Morgan that if she was just inventing trouble as an excuse to leave the work there was no need she could just leave. During Nov. 2021 Special meetings (on line) the staff workers along with visitors were together in NS. At this time a visiting worker inappropriately touched Morgan on two separate occasions. Morgan realized at this point the behaviors of abuse were far greater and more wide spread then she could have imagined. The eventual solution for all of this abuse was to move the abusers, one to Ontario, one temporarily to the USA and our overseer to Alberta. Morgan's only request at the time of reporting was for the abusers to step aside from the work and get the appropriate help/therapy needed. Instead we have made a safe haven for continued abuse. Some overseers in parts of Canada and the USA have sent letters to the elders in their fields to be read to their meetings, but many places still have have not. These things we all know are unpleasant and awkward to talk about but we cannot ignore the hurt and damage being done to the innocent. Going forward we need to know that these abusers are not just being shuffled to a different state or province to continue their abuse. These people need to be reported to the proper legal authorities. Think about the many, many, victims that have had their lives damaged and are spending months and years in therapy from the harm these abusers have caused. The lack of acknowledgement, action and dismissiveness exacerbates the feelings for the victims of abuse. These scars are with them forever, and the hurt goes far beyond the victims, it affects all of their family and friend. Please encourage our overseers that have influence in directing our workers to take the right course of action, be transparent in dealing with these abusers, report abuse. Victims need to be able to speak up and be taken seriously. Ps: In case you wonder or are hopeful that things are maybe moving in the right direction as far as recognition of harm done and the need for change and action, Within the last two weeks, Bob had a conversation with an overseer who dismissed Morgan's examples of abuse as "silly little things". He also in this conversation was victim blaming. However it is encouraging to read a letter written by Darryl Doland who has acknowledged the part that he has played in being complicit in trivializing, silencing and censoring these reports of abuses. We can only pray that these sentiments are contagious. Please feel free to share as we don't have everyone's contact details. Bob and Stacy
I like how they originally blew it off. That sentence in the last paragraph; "An overseer who dismissed Morgan's examples of abuse as "silly little things".
Oh how things have run amok... Times are changing
Hopefully, there will be no more dismissing the complaints
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Post by mountain on Apr 18, 2023 6:14:41 GMT -5
Congrats to Dean Bruer for getting his own website! www.deanbruer.info/First overseer and probably first worker to ever have a personally named domain! Is this to replace the remembrance book that was to cost $65 in honour of Dean? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 18, 2023 6:34:28 GMT -5
internationalstudies , thank you for your response. Maybe some context might help. What country was this in? How long ago? Were her parents aware of the abuse ? Who were the Workers who encouraged her to go contact law enforcement? Are you kidding? NO I will certainly not disclose such details! You seem to have no understanding of victims and their wishes. If you don't wish to accept and believe the details I have supplied I have no concern about that. I do in fact have a lot of understanding of victim/survivors and their wishes internationalstudies. It seems you haven't changed your style of writing enough ! You were the one spruiking about Workers dealing with CSA appropriately. I wasn't asking for the victims name ! Just the country for goodness sakes....but then again if you say too much you will give yourself away ! Time to review, maybe ! Is this the only case you know of that has been dealt with appropriately? |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 18, 2023 12:04:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by internationalstudies on Apr 18, 2023 12:04:15 GMT -5
Are you kidding? NO I will certainly not disclose such details! You seem to have no understanding of victims and their wishes. If you don't wish to accept and believe the details I have supplied I have no concern about that. I do in fact have a lot of understanding of victim/survivors and their wishes internationalstudies. It seems you haven't changed your style of writing enough ! You were the one spruiking about Workers dealing with CSA appropriately. I wasn't asking for the victims name ! Just the country for goodness sakes....but then again if you say too much you will give yourself away ! Time to review, maybe ! Is this the only case you know of that has been dealt with appropriately? you are very easy to read.10/10 for predictability.it's not easy for you to accept or acknowledge that the awful horrible workers actually got it right. Knew exactly what would be coming next. Sorry not interested in going further into your rabbit hole, it's pointless. So you win! Chalk that one up!👍 |
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Guest
New Member
Posts: 26
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Post by Guest on Apr 18, 2023 12:08:15 GMT -5
Congrats to Dean Bruer for getting his own website! www.deanbruer.info/First overseer and probably first worker to ever have a personally named domain! Is this to replace the remembrance book that was to cost $65 in honour of Dean? That remembrance book wasn’t offered by friends or workers, that’s a business that offers them to anyone using that funeral home. The price seems excessive, they are profiting from people’s grief |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 18, 2023 12:33:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 18, 2023 12:33:04 GMT -5
Sickening & twisted , pure evil ! WHERE IS THE MONEY FOR THE VICTIMS THAT WAS POSTED ? I am certain my parents paid thousands of dollars for my therapy . We would like it back . We will donate it to other survivors (groups) THAT NEED IT NOW .
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Post by mountain on Apr 18, 2023 12:55:28 GMT -5
Is this to replace the remembrance book that was to cost $65 in honour of Dean? That remembrance book wasn’t offered by friends or workers, that’s a business that offers them to anyone using that funeral home. The price seems excessive, they are profiting from people’s grief I reckoned that to be the case. A standard, routine practice by the funeral parlour. A bit like the website dedicated to Dean Bruer. That wasn't offered by the friends and workers either. People should keep that in mind. |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 18, 2023 13:44:21 GMT -5
Appreciate your valuable help and advice about the botched workers (who usurp power that no man should have) and the silly friends who, on the whole, seem to be deceived by them. How helpful and refreshing to have you posting here about all their errors and delusion. oh p.s. Glad of also the therapeutic benefit there for you to be able to unload on this forum about the whole silly bunch of them. They really 'get on your goat' don't they? You are trying to save them and show them their errors but they unfortunately seem rather unreceptive to it and to change according as you have told them they need to? What to do? Post a few more thousand posts, perhaps they'll then start to sit up and listen and see the error of their ways? Who knows, it's worth you trying anyway! Are you capable of holding a rational and adult debate? Or do you simply resort to sarcasm, childish put downs, personal attacks and snarky comments as some kind of defence mechanism when someone does not entirely agree with your point of view? No he is not as his actions have shown. To answer another one of your posts. In my opinion Mr Argueswitheveryone aka Mr Protectorofperverts "PoPs" for short seems to have one focus. To draw attention away from the troubling and vile issues at hand. I realized this because the man argues with so many people, why? Besides him enjoying it he also provokes people into arguments, why? Who else is arguing on here besides him as of late? Of course there are people who disagree but his focus seems to so far from the truth it's appalling. He cares nothing for the victims and only cares about covering for the churches complicit behavior. He refuses to admit that the "standard procedure to silence and shame the victims then move the perpetrators". There have been many instances where good people have turned a blind eye which taints them with the sin they have ignored. Small baby steps of sin lead to larger egregious sins, it is inevitable. Honestly take a look and see how he nonstop taunts people and pokes at them doing everything he can to get the focus on his sarcastic, diminutive and argumentative remarks instead of trying to share information to bring these issues to light. While they are in the light these issues are no longer in the shadows. Then it brings the people that have committed these offenses to light. That is the only way to trudge through these difficult topics, the only way to affect change. We can all agree that these things such as the rapes and child sexual abuse are vile and evil acts. But what about the ones that cover up these crimes? What does it say about a good man who covers it up? What about the ones that do nothing about it and just move the guilty parties? What about the people who get moved then assault more people, then get moved again? I can still not find one instance where these people are turned in by the church leadership. I know people who have spent most of their life in "the way". Then finally came to their senses and left. There are many good people in the 2x2's yet the higher up you go the higher chance you have of being corrupted by the power, money and how it is "standard procedure to ignore, silence and shame the victims into not pressing charges then moving the guilty parties." When you shun and shame victims into silence and do nothing to the guilty party what does that say about oneself? The churches standard way of dealing rape and child sexual assault has ONLY encouraged that same behavior and has contributed to countless more victims. Why was this standard procedure and the way it's been handled even created? It ONLY benefits the church in staying under the radar. It only causes the perpetrators to commit more atrocious crimes. It only causes more victims by moving the perpetrators. I pray that the perpetrators are brought to justice so they can harm no one else. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 18, 2023 13:58:38 GMT -5
He did exactly the same to protect Billy the (I love kids) E.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 18, 2023 15:22:24 GMT -5
Are you capable of holding a rational and adult debate? Or do you simply resort to sarcasm, childish put downs, personal attacks and snarky comments as some kind of defence mechanism when someone does not entirely agree with your point of view? No he is not as his actions have shown. To answer another one of your posts. In my opinion Mr Argueswitheveryone aka Mr Protectorofperverts "PoPs" for short seems to have one focus. To draw attention away from the troubling and vile issues at hand. I realized this because the man argues with so many people, why? Besides him enjoying it he also provokes people into arguments, why? Who else is arguing on here besides him as of late? Of course there are people who disagree but his focus seems to so far from the truth it's appalling. He cares nothing for the victims and only cares about covering for the churches complicit behavior. He refuses to admit that the "standard procedure to silence and shame the victims then move the perpetrators". There have been many instances where good people have turned a blind eye which taints them with the sin they have ignored. Small baby steps of sin lead to larger egregious sins, it is inevitable. Honestly take a look and see how he nonstop taunts people and pokes at them doing everything he can to get the focus on his sarcastic, diminutive and argumentative remarks instead of trying to share information to bring these issues to light. While they are in the light these issues are no longer in the shadows. Then it brings the people that have committed these offenses to light. That is the only way to trudge through these difficult topics, the only way to affect change. We can all agree that these things such as the rapes and child sexual abuse are vile and evil acts. But what about the ones that cover up these crimes? What does it say about a good man who covers it up? What about the ones that do nothing about it and just move the guilty parties? What about the people who get moved then assault more people, then get moved again? I can still not find one instance where these people are turned in by the church leadership. I know people who have spent most of their life in "the way". Then finally came to their senses and left. There are many good people in the 2x2's yet the higher up you go the higher chance you have of being corrupted by the power, money and how it is "standard procedure to ignore, silence and shame the victims into not pressing charges then moving the guilty parties." When you shun and shame victims into silence and do nothing to the guilty party what does that say about oneself? The churches standard way of dealing rape and child sexual assault has ONLY encouraged that same behavior and has contributed to countless more victims. Why was this standard procedure and the way it's been handled even created? It ONLY benefits the church in staying under the radar. It only causes the perpetrators to commit more atrocious crimes. It only causes more victims by moving the perpetrators. I pray that the perpetrators are brought to justice so they can harm no one else. Appreciate your benediction Vinny! 👍🤭 |
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Post by chuck on Apr 18, 2023 15:56:52 GMT -5
Are you kidding? NO I will certainly not disclose such details! You seem to have no understanding of victims and their wishes. If you don't wish to accept and believe the details I have supplied I have no concern about that. I do in fact have a lot of understanding of victim/survivors and their wishes internationalstudies. It seems you haven't changed your style of writing enough ! You were the one spruiking about Workers dealing with CSA appropriately. I wasn't asking for the victims name ! Just the country for goodness sakes....but then again if you say too much you will give yourself away ! Time to review, maybe ! Is this the only case you know of that has been dealt with appropriately? "Are you kidding? NO I will certainly not disclose such details!" "If you don't wish to accept and believe the details I have supplied I have no concern about that." Oh the irony........ |
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Post by snow on Apr 18, 2023 16:13:36 GMT -5
That remembrance book wasn’t offered by friends or workers, that’s a business that offers them to anyone using that funeral home. The price seems excessive, they are profiting from people’s grief I reckoned that to be the case. A standard, routine practice by the funeral parlour. A bit like the website dedicated to Dean Bruer. That wasn't offered by the friends and workers either. People should keep that in mind. Edgar Massey did a very good outlay on his website. He is also someone that is respected by the exes and friends alike. I am glad it was him that did this. He was a worker for years. |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 18, 2023 16:58:35 GMT -5
I reckoned that to be the case. A standard, routine practice by the funeral parlour. A bit like the website dedicated to Dean Bruer. That wasn't offered by the friends and workers either. People should keep that in mind. Edgar Massey did a very good outlay on his website. He is also someone that is respected by the exes and friends alike. I am glad it was him that did this. He was a worker for years. When preparing the pictures for mom’s service , I included a picture of Ruth Massey . Caught a few people off guard . You are aware of what Bill & Ruth went through in Kindersley . Joan Beach Friday, April 2, 2021 Our thoughts are with you in your of loss Kelly & Patti. It was special to listen to the memorial service yesterday for your mother & our friend Joan. It was so appropriate & real. Thankyou Patti for your part. It was touching to see my Mom & Joan in one of the pictures. They were true friends. I have wonderful memories of time with your Mom & Dad. You were the first adopted children I knew & I remember asking my Mom’ Am I adopted? ‘and she laughed. I suppose with 5 siblings & 12 years between us she thought it was obvious. I believe I was named after your Mom. We loved your Dad’s sense of humour. Joan had a sense of style and we admired how together & how attractively she dressed. Yes ..the shoes we loved them too. Please know I care & feel fortunate Bill Joan Kelly & Patti have been a part of my life. Helen Anne & I visited your Mom two years ago. It was enjoyable. Lovingly Doug & Joan( Massey) Beach We were very close to the Massey family 😘 |
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Post by snow on Apr 18, 2023 17:05:44 GMT -5
Edgar Massey did a very good outlay on his website. He is also someone that is respected by the exes and friends alike. I am glad it was him that did this. He was a worker for years. When preparing the pictures for mom’s service , I included a picture of Ruth Massey . Caught a few people off guard . You are aware of what Bill & Ruth went through in Kindersley . Joan Beach Friday, April 2, 2021 Our thoughts are with you in your of loss Kelly & Patti. It was special to listen to the memorial service yesterday for your mother & our friend Joan. It was so appropriate & real. Thankyou Patti for your part. It was touching to see my Mom & Joan in one of the pictures. They were true friends. I have wonderful memories of time with your Mom & Dad. You were the first adopted children I knew & I remember asking my Mom’ Am I adopted? ‘and she laughed. I suppose with 5 siblings & 12 years between us she thought it was obvious. I believe I was named after your Mom. We loved your Dad’s sense of humour. Joan had a sense of style and we admired how together & how attractively she dressed. Yes ..the shoes we loved them too. Please know I care & feel fortunate Bill Joan Kelly & Patti have been a part of my life. Helen Anne & I visited your Mom two years ago. It was enjoyable. Lovingly Doug & Joan( Massey) Beach We were very close to the Massey family 😘 My family knew them well also. Had an aunt that taught in Kindersley. |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 18, 2023 17:11:38 GMT -5
While reading through all the notes and meetings and gatherings after the Dean scandal I was extremely unhappy about this line ……….
1) We are going to ask everyone on our staff and the elders to take training courses regarding CSA (Child
Sexual Abuse).
NO NO NO NO NO
DO NOT ASK THEM , TELL THEM TO DO SO
OR STEP DOWN !
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